[FILM] - SiCKO

[Machinus]

I thought this was a good film on a really important issue. There are still over-the-top moments which are his style, and it is a movie, but there are really critical questions being asked.

I disagree with the filmmaker on a lot of issues/tactics, but not this one. Capitalist medicine can be sickening and I'm glad a more humanitarian subject was chosen for this kind of film.

Has anyone else seen it?

[Moxlotus]

Did he actually give more than 1 side of the story for once?  From what I've read about it, he didn't give any of the cons to a government run health insurance.

[Sextiger]

Though there are obviously are downsides to socialized medicine, the fact is that there is 30+ countries with higher quality healthcare than the U.S. and I am pretty sure almost all of them have socialized healthcare.   

Privatized healthcare in the U.S. could probably work if not for the massive corruption and profit gouging our system encourages. 


Edit: If people wanna see the movie before its release date, just search the internet and you will find it easily enough, I'm pretty sure the movie was intentionally leaked, the quality of the leaks are amazing.

[Moxlotus]

Though there are obviously are downsides to socialized medicine, the fact is that there is 30+ countries with higher quality healthcare than the U.S. and I am pretty sure almost all of them have socialized healthcare. 

To be fair, it is all subjective.  Is it higher quality to have to wait for months to get a surgery where in the US if you had the cash you could get it immediately?  Is higher quality telling mothers in labor the hospital is full--they can't see a doctor but they can see a midwife.  Or is higher quality making sure everybody can get treated and prioritizing the most serious ailments?  It's all subjective. (note--rhetorical questions--just something to think about--don't want this thread to get locked)

[Godder]

Places with government-run healthcare still have private healthcare available (in most cases) for people with the cash - here in New Zealand, a small country with a population of about 4 million people, we have the government-run, tax-funded public health system, and then there's private healthcare available as well. The public system is excellent for emergency and accident care (broken bones, life-saving operations, cancer treatment etc), but somewhat less good for elective surgery (e.g. hip replacements, where people can be waiting for months or years), so that's where our private system targets.

The primary issue with insurance is that insurance companies are risk-averse (naturally), and thus tend to avoid insuring the people who need it most, as well as spending a lot of money on administration in an attempt to avoid paying out claims, neither of which are ideal when it comes to health.

[Machinus]

Well, I have seen some of his other films, and I do think this was one of his best. I also think this is one of the more egregious and non-partisan problems addressed in these types of films.

It's obvious his position on the issues, but I think his questions are a lot more open in this one. There is so much corruption and deception going on that it would be hard to disagree with that portion of the film. Add to this the US's status as the only first world country without free healthcare and the long legislation battles over it here and it's clear there's something complex and possibly dangerous going on.

The issue of social welfare is vastly complex and I don't think any filmmaker could do it justice in two hours. I do think he ends up getting a lot of the right answers though, and I think people could learn quite a lot from this film if they can put up with the excessive appeals to emotion (of which there are, of course, too many).

[ReAnimator]

Edit: If people wanna see the movie before its release date, just search the internet and you will find it easily enough, I'm pretty sure the movie was intentionally leaked, the quality of the leaks are amazing.

Just a note about this, there were theatrical release problems for this film because obviously some people didn't want to have it shown. So because of this actual official DVDs got released to a bunch of countries before the theatrical release (i assume to generate money so it could get release, but i'm speculating). My Fiancés work has had a copy for over 6 months, and that is the reason for the high quality versions going around.

[Matt]

By FAR we pay the most for healthcare and get the least for our dollar. It would be hard to imagine government-run healthcare doing any worse.

Check out the chart reprinted here:

(sorry not to link to the real article but it's behind a subscription wall)

For that matter, it's not like people are FORCED to be on the government plan. It's really an issue of how we treat the less-well-off in our society. Those of us with means would still be able to circumvent long lines, etc., by paying extra. Unless you think private healthcare somehow just couldn't compete with government-run healthcare, and would be driven out of business. But somehow I doubt very many people think that.

[Moxlotus]

By FAR we pay the most for healthcare and get the least for our dollar. It would be hard to imagine government-run healthcare doing any worse.
 

This is somewhat inaccruate.  We pay the most upfront--but we pay less in tax rates compared to countries with universal health care.  Or if we do pay the same as some, our money can go towards different things that the government deemed necessary.

[Godder]

FWIW, I've seen studies that show that even taking into account tax rates, Americans spend more on health care (per capita) than anywhere else in the world. This private/public health debate is quite a common one online, not just for Americans wondering whether or not they'd be better off switching to a public system, but also other nations considering privatising their health system. The abundance of cash in the American system does make research more viable than it otherwise would be, however, so that's a positive that can't easily be quantified when weighing up such things.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Awesome! Liberal mtg players! Seriously, I'm in Toronto (ok, Canada, where health care is free), and I don't know where it's laying. Can you tell me about some of it? Oh, BTW, Michael Moore doesn't give "both sides of the story", because he's saying what is correct. People who lose a family member under the knife shouldn't have to have to PAY for it as well!!!

[Jacob Orlove]

Just a friendly reminder, but let's not drag this thread down with loaded rhetoric or partisanship. That kind of political discussion is banned on TMD.

[Kataki_Rulez]

Fair enough, my mod friend! I know, this sort of thing degenerates into insults all the time on YouTube, sol I'll just say did anyone here like it? Would you recommend it? As I said, I'm in Canada, and it will require more time and effort to find the film, so I just was wondering whether it was worth it.
-Kataki