Lets discuss Bomberman today

[Jo84]

What about Meddling Mage?
He keeps them off comboing you out and ends the game in at most 10 rounds.
Also Long tends to play mainly artifact bounce, so Meddling Mage should be harder to handle and you only have to protect him from their 1 Chain of Vapor.
Meddling Mage is a good addition to improve your Oath Matchup as well.

My actual plan is:
1 Tormod's Crypt (1 MD)
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Energy Flux
1 Claws of Gix
3 Meddling Mage
3 Exalted Angel
3 Aura of Silence
2 Sower of Temptation

My MD disruption is:
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection

and the black splash is just for Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will as I am actually trying out Strategic Planning.

[Mdizzle4life85]

remora despite what people think doesen't really slow you down. between sol ring land drops and mana crypt, also moxen its cost gets very easy to pay. i think the pros certainly out weigh the cons. i like meddling mage and surely will test it.

[Anusien]

What about Meddling Mage?
He keeps them off comboing you out and ends the game in at most 10 rounds.
Also Long tends to play mainly artifact bounce, so Meddling Mage should be harder to handle and you only have to protect him from their 1 Chain of Vapor.
Meddling Mage is a good addition to improve your Oath Matchup as well.

Do Long players in your area not run Massacre?

P.S., I'm not sure I'd want Meddling Mage in the Long matchup; if I had it I might board it but it has the potential to be a huge liability.  I think your plan in that matchup has to be to combo.

[Jo84]

Not everyone and not more than Pithing Needle which hits Crypt and Salvager.

Most Long lists I see play one or no Massacre. So they will have to waste one tutor if they want to handle Meddling Mage.
I am sure Meddling Mage isn´t an auto-win against Long but it buys you time and is useful in other Matchups too.

[Mdizzle4life85]

what other matchups would you want meddling mage? its obv its prob a star against long, however is it better in the board than orims chant? im sure its pretty good if you have it against slaver, also what do you guys think of like a transformational sideboard? could we just turn this deck into fish easily thus nullifying the crypts and extirpates they may board in against you? i was thinking about this earlier.

[Jo84]

I bring Meddling Mage in against Oath and Dredge/Ichorid as well. That´s the main advantage compared to Chant.

Chant is better the later the Long player throws his Duress at you.
A transformational sideboard may need too much space... the only ways to transform Salvager Combo in another strategy would be either StifleNaught or Painter Combo.

Against Slaver Meddling Mage is strictly worse. What do you name with Meddling Mage?

Goblin Welder should be eliminated by Pithing Needle before it really gets annoying.
Thirst for Knowledge/Drain/Force aren´t cards you want to name.
Naming Robots doesn´t do a thing as they can welder them in or tinker them out.

Against Slaver Crypt, Needle and Sower are my favourite choices.

[The Wolf]

My first reaction to mage was that it was awful, but the more I think about it the more I like it.  Jo84 makes a great point about Ichorid and oath.  Getting to name cabal theropy is huge, and naming oath is just house also.  Against long, its not the best card ever, but it is by no means bad.

What do you usually name against decks? My choices would be
Long: Dark Ritual
Oath: Oath
Fish: STP
Ich: Cabal therapy
Workshop: Stays in board
Slaver: Stays in board

[Anusien]

Boarding Meddling Mage to name Cabal Therapy is not only slow and silly, but you might have to cut relevant cards to do so.  It is irrelevant though, you have so much game against Ichorid, you can probably afford to waste some.  It's actually pretty good against Slaver since you can just name Thirst for Knowledge or Tinker and all of a sudden they can't win, but I question whether it's better than some of your other cards.  It also depends on what's in your hand (whether you have Needle for Welder or Mindcensor for Tinker).  The matchup I don't want it in would be Fish, and you'd name Null Rod there if they haven't already played it.

[Jo84]

Naming Therapy is huge! Without Therapy they can´t get through your counter magic and therefore can´t resolve Dread Return.
Bomberman has a good game against Ichorid, but if they got Chalice, your Crypts and Trinket Mages become worthless unless you clean the board with EE first, which means you should be dead the following turn anyways as you wasted too much time.
Naming Chain of Vapor can also be nice too make sure they don´t bounce your crypt eot and do some nasty stuff the following turn.

Which relevant cards do you mean you would need to cut to get in Mages in the Ichorid Matchup?
Aven Mindcensor aren´t really useful against Ichorid i.e.

I wouldn´t use MM against Slaver... naming Thirst or Tinker could break your own neck... let´s say they have Planning and you draw Thirsts... these two decks share too many cards to use Meddling Mage efficiently. Goblin Welder may be a target, but that´s why Pithing Needle is there.

[Anusien]

So your plan is to magically not be dead by your third turn against Ichorid so that you can counter Dread Return?  Pretty sure you should just splash Jailer; if you actually want guys against Ichorid they're much better and have the fortunate side effect of not sucking.  Like, Cabal Therapy is a serious problem on turn 1-2; Meddling Mage turn 2 doesn't stop them from putting guys in their graveyard and beating you senseless with them.  Wouldn't it be smarter to just Meddling Mage the Dread Return so they can't just say "Hope he doesn't have any counters" and beat you turn 2?  Honor the Fallen is certainly better against them.  Like, if I had Mage in my sideboard already I might board it in, but I might also board in Wrath of God.  Doesn't mean I'm expecting to do anything with it, just that Mana Drain is THAT bad in the matchup.

P.S., if you're trying to transform the deck to get around Tormod's Crypt and Extirpate, you're playing the deck wrong.  You already have 10 guys plus Tinker->Colossus.

[Mdizzle4life85]

here's the thing, early beats are huge against slaver, and thirst is 10 times better for the slaver deck than it is for you, considering trinket mage is your most important card any how. trinket will find you lotus and thus your combo. i run repeal so if i have a meddling mage against slaver i could either eot repeal my mage then thirst(which i probably would never do) or i can repeal my mage and find my other combo peice, i.e. spellbomb. thirst is redonkulous in slaver for the sole purpose of putting bots in their yard, or dumping the bots from their hand. i usually find myself countering thirst if they have a welder in play because that card can just destroy me. regarding ichorid: meddling mage is a crap plan to begin with against that deck, they will just destroy you! the best plan against ichy if your actually concerned about that match would be honor the fallen out of the board but to be quite honest i think the match is a good 70-30 in your favor game one! trinket mage is a very likely turn one play and crypting them will buy you at least two turns if you crypt at the right time, use those extra turns to play out salvager and recurr crypt. after board, boarding in two more tormods to up the total to 3 crypt should just seal the deal! meddling mage v.s. orims chant: completely meta dependent, my meta is heavy long so i honestly do not see myself entering a tourney without chants, however if you have a oath/slaver meta then i would deffinatly pack some meddling mages. share your thoughts guys thanks!

[Jo84]

No, I don´t try to transformate anything. Tormod's Crypt and Extirpate don´t scare me anyways. Null Rod is the real enemy.

They can fill their graveyard... doesn´t matter... if you can´t find a Crypt soon enough you will lose anyways but I think Mage gives you a turn or two to do so. Honor the Fallen is a bit like Orim's Chant. Long and Ichorid mainly play discard as disruption, so hate cards you hold in your hand are normally worse than hate cards that are permaments.

You should be aware that Meddling Mage is used in Game 2 and 3 against Ichorid... that´s these games where Ichorid isn´t a turn 3 deck as it boards in so many cards to answer anything that might crush that deck, so Cabal Therapy is normally NO Turn 1 or Turn 2 play. It´s not as good as in the Long and Oath Matchup but it´s pretty useful and more useful than Mindcensor.

My plan against Ichorid is to use my Waste-Effects, Trinket Mages, Crypts, Pithing Needle, Engineered Explosives and Meddling Mages to slow Ichorid that much down that they can´t race me.

Obviously Jailer is better than Mage against Ichorid, but it´s worse in the Oath and Long Matchup. Bomberman has a better Matchup against Ichorid than Oath and Long(and Oath is a common deck in my area, on one Ichorid come at least two Oath decks), so I prefer to use Meddling Mages generally.

PS: The Jailers in my sideboard are actually for testing, think I will cut them for another Crypt or Explosives.

[Mdizzle4life85]

the thing about honor the fallen is it works with narcomoeba on the stack, so when they flip one over and you honor the fallen it completley takes a. their momentum away, and b. buys you a few turns. i mean if you are concerned about cabal therapy well you could just honor is response anyway. i dont think its neccesary because of how good the ichorid match actually is. Right now i would try and focus at least 6 sideboard slots to long, and about 4 to stax. the rest would be meta decisions.

[mutedequilibrium]

Like, Cabal Therapy is a serious problem on turn 1-2; Meddling Mage turn 2 doesn't stop them from putting guys in their graveyard and beating you senseless with them.

It does stop them from flashing back Therapy off a Narcomoeba or Ichorid, though, and making a bunch of zombies for free from Bridge. Most of the time, it doesn't really matter if Therapy hits something or not. The zombies are the bigger, more immediate problem.

Wouldn't it be smarter to just Meddling Mage the Dread Return so they can't just say "Hope he doesn't have any counters" and beat you turn 2?

 

Therapy enables Dread Return by a.] making zombies to sac, b.] clearing Force of Will out of their hand to stop it. I've tested this matchup and Therapy has always been my first naming with Meddling Mage, with Dread Return coming second [if I find another Mage].

Honor the Fallen is certainly better against them.  Like, if I had Mage in my sideboard already I might board it in, but I might also board in Wrath of God.  Doesn't mean I'm expecting to do anything with it, just that Mana Drain is THAT bad in the matchup.

Honor the Fallen is win-more. Every time I've used it, I was already in a favourable position anyway. Bomberman has a better matchup vs Ichorid than any other control deck, & I'd rather spend my board slots fighting Fish and Long.

I've been running Meddling Mage in the main, instead of Mindcensor, to test it out and see if it was worth it. I've come to the following conclusions:

Slaver: Mage sucks, Mindcensor is great.
Bomberman: Mage is too situational, Mindcensor wins this matchup.
Long: Mage can be good with an experienced player, but Mindcensor is far better all around.
Uba Stax: Mage can be great if you keep them off Barbarian Ring. Mindcensor sucks.
5C Stax: Mage is terrible, and Mindcensor actually keeps them off their tutors [somewhat], and is better.
Goblins: Mage can be good, but is mostly for chump blocking. Mindcensor flies over them, and stops Matron. Decent, but both mostly suck.
Ichorid: Mage names Therapy and DR. Mindcensor is useless.
Fish: Mage can name Grunt and Bob. Mindcensor is okay.

On the whole, I'd say Mage should be in the board, and Mindcensor in the main. Almost everyone seems to be playing Slaver and Long nowadays. It's too 'hands-free' not to be good.

[Mdizzle4life85]

Like, Cabal Therapy is a serious problem on turn 1-2; Meddling Mage turn 2 doesn't stop them from putting guys in their graveyard and beating you senseless with them.

It does stop them from flashing back Therapy off a Narcomoeba or Ichorid, though, and making a bunch of zombies for free from Bridge. Most of the time, it doesn't really matter if Therapy hits something or not. The zombies are the bigger, more immediate problem.

Wouldn't it be smarter to just Meddling Mage the Dread Return so they can't just say "Hope he doesn't have any counters" and beat you turn 2?

 

Therapy enables Dread Return by a.] making zombies to sac, b.] clearing Force of Will out of their hand to stop it. I've tested this matchup and Therapy has always been my first naming with Meddling Mage, with Dread Return coming second [if I find another Mage].

Honor the Fallen is certainly better against them.  Like, if I had Mage in my sideboard already I might board it in, but I might also board in Wrath of God.  Doesn't mean I'm expecting to do anything with it, just that Mana Drain is THAT bad in the matchup.

Honor the Fallen is win-more. Every time I've used it, I was already in a favourable position anyway. Bomberman has a better matchup vs Ichorid than any other control deck, & I'd rather spend my board slots fighting Fish and Long.

I've been running Meddling Mage in the main, instead of Mindcensor, to test it out and see if it was worth it. I've come to the following conclusions:

Slaver: Mage sucks, Mindcensor is great.
Bomberman: Mage is too situational, Mindcensor wins this matchup.
Long: Mage can be good with an experienced player, but Mindcensor is far better all around.
Uba Stax: Mage can be great if you keep them off Barbarian Ring. Mindcensor sucks.
5C Stax: Mage is terrible, and Mindcensor actually keeps them off their tutors [somewhat], and is better.
Goblins: Mage can be good, but is mostly for chump blocking. Mindcensor flies over them, and stops Matron. Decent, but both mostly suck.
Ichorid: Mage names Therapy and DR. Mindcensor is useless.
Fish: Mage can name Grunt and Bob. Mindcensor is okay.

On the whole, I'd say Mage should be in the board, and Mindcensor in the main. Almost everyone seems to be playing Slaver and Long nowadays. It's too 'hands-free' not to be good.

Regarding cabal therapy, i just missed top 8 today on breaks and i beat ichorid game one twice, i can honestly tell you that i beat ichorid with a lone tormods crypt, lets face it if you know how their deck functions then you should be fine. On mindscensor this card is great! i mean he stops sooo many decks in their tracks and he shuts their mana base off alot, if you nullify even 1x fetch vs long or slaver it sets them back greatly trust me. meddling mage has no room in this deck, just look at the mage vs mindcensor analysis: almost every situation mindcensor was better, and where he wasen't a better sideboard card could be used i think hes great in a fish variant but he just doesen't belong here.

[The Wolf]

I was by no,  means saying mages should ever be main decked in bomerman.  Mindcensor is a meta house right now and should aways be played IMO. 
As for mage against ichorid, The cards you side out are things like force of will or mana drain.  I have never had a chance to counter a spell against ichorid, except cabal therapy and then they just play another. Counters are dead cards, and mage can stop them for a few turns. It gives you the time to set up crypt recursion or just win.

To me the point of mage as a 2 or 3 of in the SB is not to completely shut down a deck, but be a solid card to side in against a lot of your problem match ups.  Its a compliments the hate cards. I would side a grizzly bears in against fish, cause they cant attack into it, and I will win the long game.

Also, I would not count on winning game 1 all that often against ichorid.  Bomerman has a better game 1 then a lot of decks cause of trinket mage, but it can be very slow if you keep a hand with no moxes (assuming you don't know what your playing)

[Mdizzle4life85]

I was by no,  means saying mages should ever be main decked in bomerman.  Mindcensor is a meta house right now and should aways be played IMO. 
As for mage against ichorid, The cards you side out are things like force of will or mana drain.  I have never had a chance to counter a spell against ichorid, except cabal therapy and then they just play another. Counters are dead cards, and mage can stop them for a few turns. It gives you the time to set up crypt recursion or just win.

To me the point of mage as a 2 or 3 of in the SB is not to completely shut down a deck, but be a solid card to side in against a lot of your problem match ups.  Its a compliments the hate cards. I would side a grizzly bears in against fish, cause they cant attack into it, and I will win the long game.

Also, I would not count on winning game 1 all that often against ichorid.  Bomerman has a better game 1 then a lot of decks cause of trinket mage, but it can be very slow if you keep a hand with no moxes (assuming you don't know what your playing)

I just feel that Meddling Mage has no home in this deck, its not maindeckable and other sideboard options are better. Regarding fish, auriok salvagers is more than big enough to deal vs their creatures. and regarding ichorid with all the mana excel in this deckyou normally will get a turn 2 trinket mage, and its not uncommon to see him come out turn 1(keep in mind i run petal). i can not forsee myself dropping a game to ichorid often... I think that is a match that we should not be concerned about, right now we need to get up on slaver and long, that is what we should be preparing for.

[unicoerner]

Sry for my super stupid question, but what is your combo win condition without pyrite spellbomb? It can`t just be draw cards with aether spellbomb, clean the board with explosives and then swing over several turns.

Should there be a lone empty the warrens in it or is there some secret tech i don´t get?

[Wagner]

Sry for my super stupid question, but what is your combo win condition without pyrite spellbomb? It can`t just be draw cards with aether spellbomb, clean the board with explosives and then swing over several turns.

Should there be a lone empty the warrens in it or is there some secret tech i don´t get?

Ah, the recurring Bomberman question...

It is exactly what you said, why wouldn't it work? There are mostly no situation in which a player can get past 6-7 creatures in play, no permanent with CC 5 or less on their side with you holding 4-6 counters.

Pyrite or Brain Freeze or Empty is just overkill unless the deck is made to use it other than as a combo finisher.

[mutedequilibrium]

Mindcensor is a meta house right now and should aways be played IMO.

I'm starting to agree with this, again. Which is good. I've been advocating Mindcensor from the beginning. I loved it so much, I even tried it in 5C Stax.

To me the point of mage as a 2 or 3 of in the SB is not to completely shut down a deck, but be a solid card to side in against a lot of your problem match ups.  Its a compliments the hate cards. I would side a grizzly bears in against fish, cause they cant attack into it, and I will win the long game.

I can definitely see the merit of Mage as a multipurpose SB card, but I'm beginning to think that Bomberman, as a deck, is versatile enough that it doesn't need more versatility out of the board, but very specific answers. This is the build that I've been running for awhile:

Mana//22
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains

1 Black Lotus
5 Mox
1 Sol Ring

Creatures//10
4 Trinket Mage
3 Meddling Mage
3 Auriok Salvagers

Tools//5
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Æther Spellbomb

Spells//23
4 Force of Will
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Mana Leak
2 Mana Drain
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
1 Fire/Ice
1 Red Elemental Blast

SB [changes every tournament, depending on who shows up]
3 Spell Snare
3 Seal of Cleansing
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroblast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Pyroclasm

The inclusion of Red has been great for me. No one expects REB in the main, and it's single handedly won me control mirrors. I used the 4 Leak/2 Drain configuration for awhile due to wanting a more controlling turn 1 off a land and mox. My meta has been shifting more towards control and away from Fish, lately, though. So I'll be going back to the reverse configuration of that to better deal with control and combo.

Changes I'll be testing when I come back from vacation:

Main:
-3 Meddling Mage
-2 Mana Leak
-1 Tundra
+3 Aven Mindcensor
+2 Mana Drain
+1 Underground Sea

SB:
-3 Spell Snare
-2 Pyroclasm
-1 Pithing Needle
-1 Rack and Ruin
+4 Duress/Thoughtseize
+3 Massacre

I've also considered 4 Dark Confidant in the board, which would come in vs Stax and Slaver, but my game vs Stax is already pretty good and I think the 4 Duress/Seizes will suffice vs Slaver. I'm also considering 1 more Sea either in the main or out of the board, but I'm not sure I'll need it. It'll be interesting to test.

[Aekhold]

So, could have Tezzeret a place in our favourite deck to play? I think it could replace Mindcensor over time, it improves actually YOUR gameplan and doesn't just annoy your opponent, which is what Mindcensor does.
A card that can bring u to the combo win or just swing down your opp seems pretty nice to me.
So, any thoughts about it and what it could replace in the actual UW List?
Are more Artifacts important or is the amount enough (Mana+Trinket Mage toolbox)?
I lalalalala-like it!

Greez,
Aekhold

[BreathWeapon]

From what I've gathered Tezzeret and Time Vault replace Auriok Slavagers and Aether Spellbomb altogether, and even Trinket Mage is debatable, altho' tutoring for Black Lotus and removal is quite good.

[FadeToBlack]

Has anyone considered the possibility of a Counter-Top build in Bomberman? I'm not sure how strong it would be in Vintage, but if Extended was any indication of the power level of the combo...

Also, what about main deck Spell Snares? Everyone seems to be running around with Mana Drains (at least in my local area) right now..anyone tried that out?

[Evol daN]

Perhaps this has been covered, there is just to much old material to read through.

Why is it that people are adding black to their Bomberman lists and not adding Yawgmoth's Will. Everytime I played Bomberman with black I packed the best spell in Vintage and it was phenomenal.

When I think about it, if Y.Will resolves I probably win since either; I take the aggro plan, I get to far ahead for opponent to catch up, or I set up the combo and reload the Lotus and pass the turn. If will does not resolve then I eat their counter magic, and resolve a bigger threat? Wait, huh? Further, with the T. Mage you arefar more likely to have huge mana to abuse the Will.

Granted you cannot break the Lotus during the Y.Will and combo out, it is not like it is hard to tellegraph the proper decision here, a control deck resolving Yawg's Will with a couple dudes seems good to me.

If I missed something let me know

[Jo84]

Time Vault is restricted and costs 2 Mana, so it can´t be tutored by Trinket Mage.

Therefore I think you can pull off Salvager Combo much much easier and more frequently than Tezerret+Time Vault as you will have a hard time finding Time Vault.

Normally what is in your graveyard comes back via Salavager and in a Will turn you obviously can´t combo out. So Will is not that mandatory in this deck although sometimes it´s nice when you replay Recall or something like that.

[The Wolf]

I don't really see adding this to bomerman.  The card is going to be in a deck built around it, not just tossed in to a slot in an old deck.  It looks like people are suggesting taking trinket mage, mindcesor and salvagers out of the deck.  When you do that you are left with standard drain shell with a few bullet artifacts and no will.
The strength of salvagers is that it can attack and block if the combo is shut off.  Tezzeret can kill if you have 4 artifacts out, but it’s conditional. 
The point is, this card most likely won’t be in bomerman as a salvagers replacement.  The deck it makes could replace bomerman, but they will be different decks.

[Aekhold]

Actual list:

// Lands
    4  Flooded Strand
    4  Tundra
    3  Island
    1  Tolarian Academy
    1  Plains
    1  Library of Alexandria
    1  Polluted Delta

// Creatures
    4  Trinket Mage
    3  Aven Mindcensor
    2  Auriok Salvagers
    1  Darksteel Colossus

// Spells
    4  Force of Will
    4  Mana Drain
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    2 [ARE] Mana Leak
    2  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  Tinker
    1  Fact or Fiction
    1  Tormod's Crypt
    1  Ponder
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Merchant Scroll
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  AEther Spellbomb
    1  Engineered Explosives
    1  Echoing Truth
    1  Time Walk
    1  Brainstorm

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Platinum Angel
SB: 3  Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2  Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1  Pithing Needle
SB: 4  Orim's Chant
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3  Energy Flux

Last metagame:

1 Heptner, Felix                   18  58,3333  75,0000  54,2309  6/6/0/0    Grim Long
   2 Harbili, Jonas                   15  62,0370  58,8235  58,7092  6/5/0/0              Manaful Ichorid
   3 Mann, Frank                      15  45,3704  66,6667  46,7262  6/5/0/0    Infinite Combos
   4 Badura, Simon                    13  56,4815  62,5000  54,1097  6/4/1/0    MUD-Domination
   5 Brix, Tobias                     12  61,1111  58,8235  57,4306  6/4/0/0    Madness
   6 Freitag, Joachim                 12  58,3333  66,6667  54,1317  6/4/0/0    UW Fish
   7 Ortmann, Bjoern                  12  55,5556  66,6667  50,4674  6/4/0/0    TyrantOath
   8 Tumpach, Markus                  12  53,7037  60,0000  54,3511  6/4/0/0    WhiteStompy
   9 Tobiasch, Marc                   12  53,7037  57,1429  55,6944  6/4/0/0    Cracking Plans
  10 Bruker, Max-Wilhelm              10  62,9630  60,0000  54,7246  6/3/1/0    Sensei Sensei
  11 Alm, Daniel                      10  40,7407  57,7778  42,2269  6/3/1/0    Rb Goblins
  12 Liebsch, Pierre (me)                  9  60,1852  50,0000  56,5037  6/3/0/0    Bob-Bomberman
  13 Scheunemann, Matthias             9  60,1852  46,6667  55,4114  6/3/0/0    CounterTog
  14 Schünemann, Timo                  9  53,7037  47,0588  54,4015  6/3/0/0    GoodCardsStorm
  15 Lietzau, Niclas                   9  52,7778  50,0000  50,1004  6/3/0/0    Black Suicide
  16 Scheufele, Daniel                 9  50,0000  53,3333  50,1488  6/3/0/0    UW Fish
  17 Jung, Christian                   9  47,7778  56,2500  49,6204  5/2/0/1    UBGoyf
  18 Klaes, Andreas                    9  47,2222  56,2500  48,3193  6/3/0/0    Faeries
  19 Merzenich, Andreas                8  56,4815  52,3810  54,5098  6/2/2/0    Manaless Ichorid
  20 Mücke, Sebastian                  8  42,5926  45,2381  45,1786  6/2/2/0    SwansOath
  21 Pittner, Thomas                   8  41,6667  51,1111  43,6099  6/2/2/0    Remora-TPS
  22 Lenz, Fabian                      6  58,3333  37,2549  56,7715  6/2/0/0    Dragon
  23 Bokermann, Aurel                  6  57,4074  42,8571  54,3452  6/2/0/0    Highlander
  24 Singer, Marcel                    6  52,7778  37,5000  52,2876  6/2/0/0    Grim Long
  25 Mettbach, Felix                   6  48,1481  42,8571  47,0767  6/2/0/0    Belcher
  26 Pollex, Christian                 6  46,6667  46,6667  49,9881  5/1/0/1    ControlSlaver
  27 Lisewski, Pascal                  6  42,2222  42,8571  44,5476  5/1/0/1    Remora-TPS
  28 Badura, Peter                     6  38,8889  36,1111  42,3810  5/1/0/1    Staxx
  29 Holzinger, Marinco                5  44,4444  28,5714  47,9762  6/1/2/0    ScepterChant
  30 Makowka, Arno                     4  52,7778  30,9524  52,3545  6/1/1/0    Roque-Combo
  31 Kauffeld, Christian               3  40,0000  16,6667  45,0317  5/0/0/1    Slaver

I think the list is pretty optimal, but my SB makes me ill.
I believe Anusien when he says that Orim's Chant isn't the way to go vs. Storm.
So, any thoughts on changing the sb?
I think of cutting the Chants to get some Spell Snares in, maybe 3. So, 1 free slot and the Seals could be cut, because it isn't any longer necessary. Spell Snare is although good in control mirror with Drain.dec and Fish.
Any idea what to change then and what to do with the 3 free slots (from 1 Chant and 2 Seal of Cleansing)?

Greetz,
Aekhold

[Evol daN]

Normally what is in your graveyard comes back via Salavager and in a Will turn you obviously can´t combo out. So Will is not that mandatory in this deck although sometimes it´s nice when you replay Recall or something like that.

Yes, Yawg's Will screws up the combo. But I do not think that Will "not being mandatory" is any kind of reasoned arguement. Yawg's Will is stupid, it is ridiculous, it is the most abusable ever printed. There are so many cards in this deck that I personally love to cast out of the graveyard; Ancestral, T Walk, Merchant Scroll, artifacts pitched to Thirst, and I like playing lands.

Yes it is true; this deck abuses the graveyard, it abuses the graveyard without Will, the deck is not graveyard dependent (can win easily without it), the deck is not built around Yawg's Will. Precisely ZERO of the above statements tell me to not pack this card.

The fact that builds of this deck play; lands which produce black, moxes, spells which promote discarding of accelorents or tools, inexpensive spells that I personally like to play two times if allowed, and plays fetchlands, ALL SUGGEST that Yawgmoth's Will is basically as close to an auto-include as auto-includes come.

Is there a reason for not playing it other than a. it increases graveyard interaction in a Leyline environment and b. it prevents the combo from functioning for a single turn? Are these reasons enough to not play it? I have my opinions, obviously, please... persuade me to agree with yours.



On a different note, what is the greatest weakness of Bomberman in your perspectives? I do not necessarily mean a specific card or mechanic, on a more aetherial level (is it aquisition of resources, tempo, fragility in the face of disruption, inability to disrupt). Obviously this is going to differ based on what metagame you are playing in, and therefore the types of cards you have tucked into your meta-slots. So please do not refer to meta-slots unless you are describing how they fill that particular conceptual chink in the armor.

[Jo84]

Correct me if I am wrong - as I am no native speaker of English - but mandatory means that there is no reason that Will is a MUST in this deck. You just validated that there is no reason why Will couldn´t be used in Bomberman.

Bomberman is a pretty slow deck, it has a hard time answering early threats like Dreadnaught, Oath, Darksteel Colossus in time, if you can´t take the game past turn 3-4 you are normally the person losing.

[Anusien]

Yawgmoth's Will is good if the game goes long; I gladly played it at SCG Roanoake and I just as readily sided it out against combo decks.  If you're in black it's probably worth cutting a Thirst for Knowledge for it.  You don't HAVE to crack Lotus until Will, but you can very easily set up a combo win next turn with it.  It's basically just a Thirst for Knowledge that is a little better; it'll generally get you a land, a guy and and a spell.  Sometimes that spell will be Ancestral Recall, Tinker or Time Walk and you'll jump for joy.  Also, one of the good things about Will is you can draw into it while comboing and replay Time Walk to win (just be careful of floating mana).

At the moment my current list has 1 Underground Sea just for the sideboard so I can't support Will, but it's a strong possibility.  The addition of Will also suggests a Lotus Petal in place of an off-color Mox or something.

The weakest part of Bomberman is the Oath matchup; there really aren't the SB slots to devote to winning the matchup, especially if they go to Tyrant.  Or more generally, the deck is extremely weak in the turns before it has had a chance to cast draw spells.  This is sort of a Mana Drain issue in general, and strongly suggests making Duress a more fundamental part of its strategy.

There are two reasons in my eyes not to include Tezzeret: #1) Pithing Needle on Time Vault, and #2) aggro matchups.  You should absolutely stomp the Tezzeret decks; they are so incredibly bad against creatures in general and Aven Mindcensor in particular that it's amazing.
That said, it's something worth trying.  I'd replace the Spellbomb with a Time Vault, the Salvagers with Tezzerets, and find room for a singleton Voltaic Key somewhere.  I'd also run black for at least a limited tutor suite.  For discussion of that deck, please open a different thread.


Edit: The most exciting card in the set might be this guy for the sideboard versus combo:

Ethersworn Canonist
{W}
Artifact Creature -- Human Cleric
2/2
Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.