URBana Fish--The Solution to the metagame

[Moxlotus]

First, the list:

The only Vintage playable cards in this deck:
1 island
6 fetch
5 waste
3 volc
3 sea
5 mox
1 lotus

Stuff that stops better cards than I have:
4 force
4 duress
3 chalice
3 REB
2 Leak

The good:
1 walk
1 ancestral

The bad:
3 Control Magic

The freaking ugly:
4 bob
4 ninja
4 monkey
3 waterfront bouncer

The stuff that I hope saves me from better decks:
4 leyline
3 REB
3 needle
2 Shattering Spree
3 Rack and Ruin

Rebs can be REB or Pyroblast.  Honestly doesn't matter that much.  This debate has been done approximately 84739381.398483 1/2 times so I'm not going to rehash it.

Notable changes from my last version:
-sages and Dimirs
+bouncers
-echoing truth, trickbinds, and mirage tutors
+control magic, REBs, Mana Leak.

Why the creature change?  Sage and Dimir were great against Gifts.  A single attack with Dimir Cutpurse was pretty awesome.  A second attack sealed the deal 95% of the time.  But with Gifts gone, GAT is here.  Bouncer>Dryad.  They can grow it all they want and it doesn't matter.  Plus, Bouncer is randomly good against Salvagers, Welders, and Angels.

Why the disruption/defense change?  With Gifts gone, ETW is seeing a lot less play.  With Flash in existence, Long is taking a back seat and so even less ETW is played.  REB is awesome against Flash and GAT, so they make it back into the maindeck.  Mana Leak is there for some additional help, taking the place of Remand.

Now Control Magic.  That card is an MVP of the deck.  You will all laugh at it--I sure did when Becker suggested it.  That is until I stole a 12/12 dryad the first game I played with it.  Control Magic will win you a lot of games.  The card is good.  There are lots of creatures right now.  Salvaers is big right now--why not steal their 2/4 blocker?  Welders are always a pain--take it and win the game against Stax.  And again, you can randomly steal an Angel.  Plus, they let me cut FTKs from the board (letting me play more REBs, which makes the matchs even better still!) since CM serves the same purporse of removing their guy and giving me one.  These guys put me in 3rd place and a Grim Tutor instead of 5th place and a Tundra--by stealing a juggernaut one game and a welder the other.

I ran this at the COD Lotus tournament and took 3rd place.  I went 5-0-1 during swiss, defeating bye, flash(slivers), ichorid, bomberman, and Oath.  In the top 8 I beat stax and lost to oath int he top 4.

So I am convinced that URBana fish will always be viable.  There are 2 times now that I thoguht it was dead, but was able to morph it into a winning deck.  The first was when ichorid and Flash became viable.  And now that Gifts is gone and GAT is back.  URBana fish is the best deck that nobody ever plays.  Last week I played against who I think was Rich Shay (its MWS, so you never know).  He was playing GAT and I beat him 4-0 preboard, 2-0 post board.  I then went 2-2 with him when he was playing Bomberman--a match that used to be a nightmare for my last URBana build.  This deck is the real deal.  Becker posted a version a lot different from this as a starting point.  I tested it a bunch and began cutting new cards (Chains of Meph among them) for the older ones and came to realize that the deck was pretty much like the original version that Becker got 3rd at some SCG, only with Control Magic.  Amazing how decks come around full circle.  Kinda like how Blood Moon is pretty sweet again

First, why red over white?  Maindeck REB is amazing right now.  REB 4-6 post board kick the crap out of a lot of things.  Red also gives you access to some amazing artifact kill in the board.  Plus, Mox Monkey is a great disruptive creature that can be ninja'd out.  You lose Meddling Mage (which isn't that significant imo), swords (somewhat significant), and Grunt (major).

The matches:
Flash:
+4 leyline, 3 pyro
-3 control magic, -3 bouncer, -1 island
you kick the living crap out of them.  The deck is designed to beat them.  Maindeck you have Chalice (bye pacts), duress, reb, mana leak, and force.  Post board you have more REB, leylines, and if they have the kiki kill, pithing needle.  You win by playing a Bob or a ninja and turnign him sideways 10 turns in a row.  Do not over extend.  Always make sure you can cast every counterspell in your hand.  It is better to have counters up than shorten the clock.  They can win out of nowhere so don't let it happen.  If you get paired against Flash every single round in a tournament, you are going to be taking home some prizes.

Ichorid:
+4 leyline, +3 needle
-3 control magic, -4 duress
You will probably lose game 1, but can randomly get lucky.  Game 2 you have leylines and Needles.  On the play, mull into one of those.  On the draw is trickier and I don't have a hard solution for that.  I class the match as slightly favorable.

GAT:
+3 REB
-3 chalice
I class this match as favorable if they have a standard list of GAT.  Get a bouncer online and you're good to go.  REB is awesome.  Use them ASAP--especially on brainstorm.  That makes your wastes even more effective. 

fishies:
+3 needle, +3 pyro
-3 chalice, -3 duress
The skill tester of a match.  This is an even match if both players know what they are doing.  Luckily for you, nobody playtests against URBana so they won't know what they're doing.  Needles name Jitte, Factory, and Old Man.  Game 1 used to be bad, but now you have control Magics for their Grunt, so each game is about even.  Practice this match--a lot.

stax:
+5 artifact kill, +3 needle
-4 duress, -3 pyro, -1 chalice

This match is probably about even, but is highly draw dependent.  Factories are your #1 enemy, because they keep coming back with Crucible.  You must playtest the hell out of this match if youw ant to win.  I hadn't tested against it for a while, and completely punted my game 1 against my opponent when I had the win staring me in the face.  Chalice doesn't matter, Sphere isn't too bad.  Null Rod matters if you had a heavy mox draw.  Smokestack usually isn't the real enemy--it is the crucible. 

tendrils combo:
+3 reb
-3 control magic

I weakened my game against storm a bit comapred to my last build, but it doens't matter too much because why the heck would you play Long when you could just play Flash?  Anyways,  the match is now about even.  REB any target they give you. 

Bomberman:
+3 REB
+3 pithing needle
-1 island
-3 Chalice
-2 Duress.
The key to this match is if they resolve a Trinket Mage.  If they do, they win.  He does so much damage to you its ridiculous.  He finds EE, which will kill 1-2 guys.  He can find Aetherspellbomb, which will set your ninja back.  Or he can jsut block, use spellbomb on itself, play him again, then search for more stuff that ruins you!  Force pithing ancestral is the play to make against Trinket Mage.  I'm serious.  It may not look like it, but he is the thing that ruins you.  Control Magic on Salvagers is pretty hot randomly.  Don't worry about the combo that much--it is their guys that beat you.  Needles win and lose you the game sometimes, so think about it what you name.  Salvagers is the obvious choice, but sometimes EE is the card to name.  I put the match at slightly below even. 

Now that I played the deck, its surprise value of new cards has gone down exponentially.  And now as I post this, it goes down even more.  However, the deck is extremely good in this metagame right now.  Obviously once other decks adapt it gets worse.  I have a GAT build that slaughters this and a rough build of Flash that is up to 50/50 already, so then URBana will have to fade for a few tournaments or adapt again.

BONUS EDIT SECTION:

Eric reminded me of something that I just took for granted becuase I've played the deck for so long.  He can probably give some more insight into it.  But the number of opportunities to bluff with URBana fish is ridiculous.  There are a ton more bluffs you can make with this thing than with any other deck I've played.  Obviously, bluffing REB is great.  It's even more powerful game 2 when they know for a fact you have it after you owned them on something game 1 with it.  "Considering" whether to ninja out a guy or hold open 1U for your "Mana Leak" is another good one.  Even when ninjitsuing out a Shaman, debating whether to tap out of black or RED is another one that would suggest you have a Duress.  And if you leave open red, considering whether to cast your shaman again bluffs REB.  Since URBana can and has played, as I like to say, every card ever, you can bluff daze, stifle, trickbind, and misdirection too!

[Dxfiler]

The bad:
3 Control Magic

That card is indeed bad :p

I run a similar version to URB fish that you posted, so similar it isn't worth posting but the reason I am posting is because I have sulfur elemental in your control magic spot.  Sulfur elemental is the nut high right now.  I wish I ran the deck yesterday at myriad.  I told my friend Rich Meyst about sulfur and he built a gro deck with it and got second, but I'm pretty sure sulfur is best in a URB style deck.  You mentioned stealing jotun grunt... why even give them the chance game one to counter it and just sulfur block a grunt.  There's no way to stop that other than using a removal or bounce spell on the elemental.

Sulfur elemental also deals with mindcensor... completely owning it.

I tested URB with mindcensor and went 30-4 against bomberman, which was previously a tough matchup.  You list the bomberman matchup with your version as below even, if you maindeck sulfur elemental I guarantee it will go above even.

Also, you seem to be gambling a bit on confidant flips.  Between control magic, FOW and ninja you could easily die to your own bob.  Another reason to lower the ACC of the deck a bit by cutting control magic.

Also I like daze in this deck a ton, but the spots are hard to find.  I did cut echoing truths as well because they just aren't needed and if someone randomly tinkers you there's always the bouncer out.

Overall your list looks solid and congrats on the performance.  I would strongly recommend trying out sulfur in this deck though, he is the stone cold nuts.

- Dave Feinstein

[Moxlotus]

Sulfur Elemental does look interesting.  However, he does not deal with Dryad and is only 1 less damage off Bob.  He can't deal with opposing Welders or big artifact guys and he isn't blue.

Sulfur does seem awesome against Mindcensor, but that's not the problem card I've found.  It's just a guy that will go 1 for 1 against me.  It's the Trinket Mage that's the winner for them. 

Sulfur would also throw the U/W fish match into my side of the match clearly.  It's definitel an option, just at the cost to the GAT match.  I do agree though that it would probably get me above even and if there was more bomberman in my metagame or if U/W fish existed in my metagame at all, I would be much more receptive to the card.

The maindeck has an average CC of 1.2666666666666.  If I ran Sulfur instead of CM it would be 1.2166666666. 

Also I like daze in this deck a ton, but the spots are hard to find.

Daze has been in and out of URBana for a while and it could definitely be a part of this one--most likely for the Mana Leak slot.  I haven't really tried it in this version though, so it is definitely worth investigationg.

[BeatDominator]

Yeah the sulfur elemental looks interesting, but is it really THAT much better than a grim lavamancer?  Having the ability to shoot opposing Dark Confidants and bouncers would tip any fish match up in your favor, not just those with buckets of white creatures.

Also I'm a bit confused by the 4  gorilla shaman.  Really? 4 shamans? thats whats goin on in the streets now?

It is your deck after all, and if you're comfortable with the control magic's, then so be it.  I just don't think I could play with em.  Why not cut the control magics for something a bit better? another counter effect and a couple of bounce? maybe try the needles maindeck in their spot.

[Jo84]

Lavamancer seems much better than Sulfur Elemental, it´s cheaper, it effects not only white creatures and it´s a hell for GAT to play a dryad, when your lavamancer is untapped, cause they must have three other spells to let her survive, as you shoot her in reaction to the first trigger.

Has anyone thought about Goblin Vandal?

Well, he can´t come into play and blast all your opponents moxes, but he kills whatever you want at the effort of R.

[BeatDominator]

Lavamancer seems much better than Sulfur Elemental, it´s cheaper, it effects not only white creatures and it´s a hell for GAT to play a dryad, when your lavamancer is untapped, cause they must have three other spells to let her survive, as you shoot her in reaction to the first trigger.

That just isn't true.  You shoot in response to the first spell being played, its already a 2/2.  They respond to the effect again its a 3/3.  They only need 2 spells.

Not really sure what you are referring to.

Edit.

Moreover, the Goblin vandal idea is just simply worse than main decking shattering spree.  Shattering spree can kill a chalice for 1 or get in while you have a chalice for 1, kill three arties for  when under a trinisphere and is just plain faster than the vandal. 

[BoRoG]

That just isn't true.  You shoot in response to the first spell being played, its already a 2/2.  They respond to the effect again its a 3/3.  They only need 2 spells.

Not really sure what you are referring to.

Lavamancer seems much better than Sulfur Elemental, it´s cheaper, it effects not only white creatures and it´s a hell for GAT to play a dryad, when your lavamancer is untapped, cause they must have three other spells to let her survive, as you shoot her in reaction to the first trigger.

First triggered ability goes on the stack from them playing a spell, then you shoot the dryad.  It's still a 1/1 when your lavamancer resolves unless your opponent play 2 more spells.

[BeatDominator]

Or they wait till you shoot, then play 2 in response?

But you are correct, it was my mistake. 

[Moxlotus]

Also I'm a bit confused by the 4  gorilla shaman.  Really? 4 shamans? thats whats goin on in the streets now?

It is your deck after all, and if you're comfortable with the control magic's, then so be it.  I just don't think I could play with em.  Why not cut the control magics for something a bit better? another counter effect and a couple of bounce? maybe try the needles maindeck in their spot.
 

Shamans are a 1 drop that turns into a turn 2 ninja.  With Ninja as half of your draw engine, you need it going on turn 2 or 3 (3 if you had to spend turn 1 disrupting).  Vandal is much worse--you can't just plop him down and clear the opposing board.  No list of URBana has been without 4 Monkeys for a reason. 

What would be better than Control Magic at handling troublesome creatures like Welder, big artifact guys, grunt, and Dryad?  The thing about Lavamancer is you must get him down before they play a Dryad--and that's not always feasible.  CM's magic is in its versatility.  Playtesting had me stealing mostly Salvagers and Dryads.  In the tournament I stole a Razia, a Welder, and a Juggernaut--all for wins.  I also pitched it to Force a lot against quick Flashes.  No other card offers that versatility.  I know it looks like ass--I had the same initial reaction.  Once you try it out though chances are you'll appreciate it.  I came back to our boards and started raving about how great CM was after I had initially said "that looks like crap", then my teammate Ben Roberts ended up going through the same thing I did.

[BoRoG]

Or they wait till you shoot, then play 2 in response?

But you are correct, it was my mistake. 

Then I won't shoot.  Not playing any spells also works for me

EDIT:  Please stay on topic.
-Moxlotus

[EKM_Ichorid]

Has anyone considered Overtaker? 1U 1/1, with the ability to grab creatures despite their size for just 3U and a card. It can hold off GAT when they are on the attack, or grab it and smash face with their own Dryad. It can play tricks with Welder and Mindcensor, and also can steal Oath creatures. It could be a house, and it's hard to counter because it can drop quick and it's ability is only susceptable to Stifle effects, which have been cut back on lately.

EDIT: Did I mentain that if you have a Lotus, you can steal a Salvager and play your whole hand?

[BeatDominator]

Also I'm a bit confused by the 4  gorilla shaman.  Really? 4 shamans? thats whats goin on in the streets now?

It is your deck after all, and if you're comfortable with the control magic's, then so be it.  I just don't think I could play with em.  Why not cut the control magics for something a bit better? another counter effect and a couple of bounce? maybe try the needles maindeck in their spot.
 

Shamans are a 1 drop that turns into a turn 2 ninja.  With Ninja as half of your draw engine, you need it going on turn 2 or 3 (3 if you had to spend turn 1 disrupting).  Vandal is much worse--you can't just plop him down and clear the opposing board.  No list of URBana has been without 4 Monkeys for a reason. 

What would be better than Control Magic at handling troublesome creatures like Welder, big artifact guys, grunt, and Dryad?  The thing about Lavamancer is you must get him down before they play a Dryad--and that's not always feasible.  CM's magic is in its versatility.  Playtesting had me stealing mostly Salvagers and Dryads.  In the tournament I stole a Razia, a Welder, and a Juggernaut--all for wins.  I also pitched it to Force a lot against quick Flashes.  No other card offers that versatility.  I know it looks like ass--I had the same initial reaction.  Once you try it out though chances are you'll appreciate it.  I came back to our boards and started raving about how great CM was after I had initially said "that looks like crap", then my teammate Ben Roberts ended up going through the same thing I did.

Its true, it does look like ass at first glance, but you make a good point.  I would feel more comfortable at first going with 2 CM's and 4 waterfront bouncers though.  Having not played through the deck more than just a little solitare action, its hard to say with any certainty here from work   

I'm sure you have, but did you consider non-targeted creature kill rather than jacking creatures? Diabolic edicts, et al.



I see your point about getting the ninja online asap, I just don't like ninjas and confidants in the same deck    with 11 cards that will hit you for 4 or more, I just get unlucky i guess with them.  I usually end up hitting myself for too much each game with Confidants.  I know you could bounce em or ninja them out, but doesn't that kind of detract from your "messing with your opponent" ability and turn your attention to keeping yourself alive? 

And related to the ninja thing, if you're spending your mana the first two turns exclusively on getting a ninja in play, wouldn't daze be better than mana leak?  Did you find yourself just SCREAMING for a daze at some point?  I know leak performs better in later turns, but you can get yourself in a real ugly situation early without countering that second turn spell.

[Nydaeli]

Have you thought about running Threads of Disloyalty instead of Control Magic?  Most of the creatures you'd steal are 2cc or less (Dryad, Grunt, Welder).  Though you wouldn't be able to steal random wins by taking Angels, this would accomplish the same basic purpose while lowering the curve.  I guess it's a bit narrower and harder to justify in the maindeck.

[Implacable]

I can't speak for Phil, but I would assume that his thought process was:

Bomberman = Best control deck

Salvagers = Common cards that wreck Fish

Control Magic = Takes Salvagers

Threads of Disloyalty = Doesn't

[xaltair]

Hi!

I was just wondering about something. I'm getting ready to play my patented U/R fish deck on saturday at a big tourney (triple power) and was wondering if this version is running black only for duress and Bob?

I know it has leyline in the sideboard, but you don't usually expect to hardcast it anyways. With force of will and other high casting cost cards in this deck is Bob really worth it for card draw?

I was also wondering why no one's running standstill anymore, is there a specific reason or it's easier to splash a third colour for Bob?

Thanks!

[ErkBek]

URBana fish is the best deck that never was. It's a heavily tested deck, built on format knowledge and synergy. The kill isn't flashy, but the deck is one of the most fun vintage decks you'll ever play. It's got game vs. every single deck in the format.

Control Magic is good stuff. It's your trump card to Welder, Dryad, Salvager's, Tog, and Tinker all in one card. It doesn't just kill their creature, you take it. It's backbreaking. Meanwhile it does good stuff in the aggro mirror freeing space up on the sideboard simultaneously. URBana fish has rarely ever has a problem paying 2UU to steal your opponent's creature, it plays 25 mana sources, that's more that's more than 4-7 more than GAT and Flash, 3 more than SS and UW Fish, even 1 more than Slaver. Gifts used to play 25 mana sources! Threads just isn't versatile enough, and that 1 mana difference isn't that big of a deal usually. Finally, Control Magic is blue, which is important for this deck, since it's always on the fine line of not having enough blue cards to support Force.

Overtaker is interesting, but I worry about it being only a temporary answer to a permanent threat. It's worth looking into further, but I think Bouncer is better.

Black is totally worth the splash. Bob and Duress are both great. I've never lost a game solely to Confidant damage, most of the time it's been a problem I've been able to bounce or ninja him out of play. Once the deck starts rolling, you actually put away games fairly quickly. Standstill isn't good in here because this deck wants to continue to apply pressure. Brainstorm would be much better than Standstill in this list (it's been in and out of the deck for some time).

Here are some links to old threads on the deck.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32991.0

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=30492.0

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=28184.0

[Juice]

@Mox Lotus

I thought of Gilded Drake in place of the control magics. It's cheaper and have synergy with your bouncers...

[Moxlotus]

@Mox Lotus

I thought of Gilded Drake in place of the control magics. It's cheaper and have synergy with your bouncers...

Gilded Drake is an interesting idea--something I had not thought about before.  However, you are giving your opponent a guy that is bigger than any of your own, so unless you happened to steal a huge Dryad you just did yourself a disservice.  A number of times I've won games by CM'ing Welder or Salvagers or even stuff like Bob.  Plus, he has flying so he's essentially unblockable agaisnt you.  He does combo amazingly with Bouncer though, but that may be "the danger of cool things"--if he needs another card to be amazing that isn't the strongest play.  However, like I said, I haven't thought about him much less tested him so my initial impression could be wrong.

[Imsomniac101]

Well, the cc of Drake makes it far superior imo.

I agree that this is one of the best unplayed decks at the moment.

[ErkBek]

Drake seems awesome for stealling big things, but really bad for stealing things in the aggro matchup (unless you have bouncer on the table obv). One nice thing about Control Magic is it takes something with no strings attached. Waterfront bouncer is pitched to FoW a lot and only has 1 toughness, so I'd be very hesitant to count on any combo with him and Drake.

The converted mana cost on Drake and being flipped to Bob means nothing to me. Chances are if you flip a drake to Bob and cast it you'll end up taking far more damage (2 damage from bob and 6 to 9 damage from drake).

Altogether, I see drake only helping steal something slightly faster or help steal a titan. Against aggro decks, Waterfront bouncer is already a house and is often a first target for STP's and the like. Also, you're going to have to put some FTK's back on your SB to deal with aggro matchups if you cut Control Magic from the maindeck.

Drake and Bouncer seem like very cool synergy, but I don't think that you could count on it very much. I think Phil will testing Drake and he'll report back on it.

[islanderboi10]

OK, so I got really excited when I read this thread.
I am soo building this deck, but I have a couple of questions..

My meta is very divers.
AKA the last top 8 was this:

3 Crusher
2 Flash
1 Bob-Bomberman
1 PitchLong
1 GAT

I know the meta is a lot of control and combo. Such as Bomberman, Slaver, few Crusher, Grim Long, etc.

I realyl like this deck, but I was wonderng, should I have some cards that would be better for my meta?

What about Stifles, or Trickbind, or Extripate?

And how would you beat Crusher? It seems liek they would murder URBana...

Thanks a lot

EDIT: and also, why no Brainstorm?

[ErkBek]

OK, so I got really excited when I read this thread.
I am soo building this deck, but I have a couple of questions..

My meta is very divers.
AKA the last top 8 was this:

3 Crusher
2 Flash
1 Bob-Bomberman
1 PitchLong
1 GAT

I know the meta is a lot of control and combo. Such as Bomberman, Slaver, few Crusher, Grim Long, etc.

I realyl like this deck, but I was wonderng, should I have some cards that would be better for my meta?

What about Stifles, or Trickbind, or Extripate?

And how would you beat Crusher? It seems liek they would murder URBana...

Thanks a lot

EDIT: and also, why no Brainstorm?

Yeah, no brainstorm. It's been in and out of the deck as a 1 or 2 of for a while. Basically this deck builds tempo just by having answers in hand. You rarely ever want BS in your opener, but it's a nice mid-game draw. If you must have them, you could cut the 2 Mana Leaks for them, but I wouldn't. Also, playing Brainstorm hurts the times where you cast Chalice at 1 (you don't cast Chalice @1 all that often though, maybe once every 5 games).

Stifle and Trickbind don't work very well in this deck b/c you are usually tapping out on turn's 1 and 2. They usually just don't show at the right time. Red Blast is almost always better. Extripate just wouldn't do anything in here.

I'm not too sure about the Crusher matchup, never played against it with URBana. I'd say you'd probably want to just bring in the 5 Artifact removal spells and Leylines to shut down Skullclamp and Modular. I also have never played vs. GAT, Flash, or bob-berman....maybe moxlotus would be more help.

[islanderboi10]

hmm, well i have decided taht I love this deck.
It is ridiculous.


But the part I really dont like are the Mana Leaks.  Can we replace them with something else?

I thought of Stifle, but you tell me no.
What about extripate?  Or another counter....daze?

Not so sure.  Any suggestions?

[Moxlotus]

I will admit that Mana Leak is probably the slot in the deck that is most open.  I'd prefer at least one of those slots to be blue, but it isn't necessary.  It's nice to have a hard/semi hard reactive answer to something.  HOwever, if you're worried about artifacts, then Rack and Ruin or Pithing Needles maindeck are good reactive answers.

I've never been a big fan of Daze.  While it will counter your opponent's turn 1 spell, I've found that setting myself back and land drop on turn 1 is too severe because the general game plan is to turn 1 Duress/Monkey and turn 2 waste+duress/REB.   

[islanderboi10]

I agree with you Moxlotus, daze isnt very good in this deck.

In testing, Leak has helped a couple of times.

I will try to test 1 Needle and 1 maindeck Rack and Ruin or something...

Thanks

[ErkBek]

I will try to test 1 Needle and 1 maindeck Rack and Ruin or something...

How about 1 Mystical Tutor and 1 Rack and Ruin. That way you keep the blue card count healthly and have access to Rack and Ruin more in game 1. Back over a year ago in Vroman-land I used to do that.

[islanderboi10]

That is a very good idea, thank you.

I will definetly test that.

EDIT: ok, so instead of Rack and Ruin, it is Mystical tutor and Echoing truth.  ETW still gets played (little bit) around here, and Truth hits soo many other things.

Not to mention, it can hose Flash, and the like.

[LennonMarx]

I picked up this deck and found Daze to be very good in the Mana Leak slot. The land loss isn't that horrible, and i found myself in numerous games going turn 1 duress, and then dazing their other turn 1 play. The slot is probobly still open, but I did find Daze to be useful and pretty darn good.

[islanderboi10]

When I tested Daze, I found myself playing Gorilla Shaman turn 1, Dazing one of my opponents threats.  On my turn, i would attack with Shaman, and be holding Ninja...unable to Ninja.

I lost games because I couldnt get my draw engine online fast enough.

I really don't like daze.

[Moxlotus]

When I tested Daze, I found myself playing Gorilla Shaman turn 1, Dazing one of my opponents threats.  On my turn, i would attack with Shaman, and be holding Ninja...unable to Ninja.

I lost games because I couldnt get my draw engine online fast enough.

I really don't like daze.

I can't believe I didn't mention this before.  Getting a draw engine online by turn 2 (or 3 ONLY if it is very necessary to disrupt them for 2 turns) is very essential to the deck's success.  From here it is very streamlined and you'll do fine, but many losses come from not being able to get your draw creatures to stick.