After gush is unrestricted maybe we can go gamble a bit?

[Guli]

Don't delete your own threads if they have a number of replies.
-Klep

-Stop moving them then...

[Scott_Limoges]

I like the idea of gamble and gush together but isn't vampiric tutor and imperial seal with gush better?  With gamble, red becomes a secondary color that competes with black and green.

[Guli]

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[meadbert]

I have a lot of experience playing Gamble in Turboland.  Gamble can be good because after turn 1 Shop Crucible you can Gamble for Strip Mine and you don't care if you have to discard it.

Anyway, if Gambling for Fastbond is your plan then I suggest Argivian Find.  Argivian Find is one of the more broken cards in Vintage that gets little play.  Argiving Find on Lotus can be huge.  It can get back Fastbond.  Argivian Find is also great for protecting turn 1 Chalice@0.

I have started many games versus Gifts/Slaver/Pitch Long with Chalice@0 only to see it Forced.  When you follow up with City of Brass, Argivian Find, Chalice@0 then it can be back breaking.

I am not sure if you can find room for white though.  If you can then that opens you up to more sideboard options.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Not to be a wet blanket, but we have to think of these cards independently too.  One of the biggest pushes on card selection in T1 right now is that not only do cards have to have great synergy, but they have to stand on there own.  If you start topdecking gambles and argivian finds in a tight match, you'll probably fall behind.

I also agree with Limoge that the B tutors seem superior to set up with Gush.

[Guli]

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[Ripcord728]

If you're already playing red, I'd definitely remove the Dryads for Storm Elementals.  That way, you can start your engine without needing a Dryad in play, and then once you get going, you'll find the mana (and the Elemental itself) and be able to swing immediately, to boot.

An idea that could potentially work with this strategy is running 2/3 Intuitions and 4 Rite of Flame.  If you have Intuition with Rite of Flame, then you can cast Intuition at the end of your opponent's turn, search for a Recoup, a Wheel/YawgWill, and an additional Rite of Flame. Then next turn, you can really go off.  If you Intuition with Wheel (or a way of getting Wheel, such as Gamble,) you can Intuition for 3 Rites of Flame.

[Grand Inquisitor]

I don't understand why you find imperial and vampiric superior.

I'm basically evaluating these two situations:

Hand 1: Gush, Gamble, Yawgmoth's Will
Hand 2: Gush, Imperial Seal, Yawgmoth's Will

Assume mana constraints so you need fastbond to play the yawgwill.  Assume you have the green for fastbond, and either the red or black for gamble or ISeal.

In hand 1 you'll gush, and assuming you don't find fastbond, you'll gamble and hit one of: 2 gush cards, 2 lands, fastbond, yawgwill.  This makes 1/3 of the probable plays break up your combo.  Possibly 2/3 if you needed both lands as mana for Yawgwill and didn't draw any mana off gush.

In hand 2 you'll ISeal for fastbond, gush, and go off with yawgwill without chance of failure.

Granted, I picked an extreme choice of having yawgwill in your hand, but I think this does a better job of highlighting how important precise tutoring is.  Random effects tend not to be powerful enough in T1.

[Guli]

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[Vegeta2711]

Actually Gamble is just terrible. Any card that typically gives you a 20-33% chance of completely wasting a mana and card for no reason, especially when your relying on it is going to be unplayable outside of very specific circumstances. Demonic Consultation basically sets the bar for 'risk' tutors in this format. If it can't trump or match DC, odds are you can play a much safer or straight up better card in it's place.

[Methuselahn]

Even if the logic pans out and Gamble is a better card in the current meta because of what's been said, I still wouldn't play it now.  Aven Mindcensor being the biggest reason.

[Guli]

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[Vegeta2711]

The problem with your comments is that in real game it doesn't show to be a terrible card. It gives me wins more than you might imagine. And the risk factor is not 20% Can you please post your calculations

Calculations? Are you serious? This is basic math here.

You have 5 cards in hand. You cast Gamble. You replace one of the cards with the one you want. Your opponent has a 20% chance of hitting it assuming a completely random way of deciding (say die roll or something along those lines). If you have 3 cards, the opponent has a 33% chance of taking the card you just tutored for. Etc. and so forth. Obviously the numbers get better the more cards you have in hand, but my basic point is that it's far more % points of failure than the only risk tutor that's even been truly effective in competitive play.

[ErkBek]

Calculations? Are you serious? This is basic math here.

You have 5 cards in hand. You cast Gamble. You replace one of the cards with the one you want. Your opponent has a 20% chance of hitting it assuming a completely random way of deciding (say die roll or something along those lines). If you have 3 cards, the opponent has a 33% chance of taking the card you just tutored for. Etc. and so forth.

I think Guli is trying to highlight the synergy of Gush filling your hand so Gamble has a lower chance of making you discard the tutored card. For example, if you cast Gush holding 4 other cards in hand you'll have 8 when you Gamble. Thus you'll have a 1 in 8 chance (12.5%) of discarding the tutored card. I think it's "cool" synergy, but I just don't see it working out. When you do have Gamle, but no Gush, Gamble's going to be too risky and a bad topdeck like Veggies said.

I like the idea, but I think you are better off just running the 3 black tutors.

[Shock Wave]

This would've actually been a good combo about 5 years ago, when vintage players were more concerned about having fun and making innovative and interesting decks/plays. However, as the format has become more competitive, the great players are all very conscientious of "the danger of cool things". This little combo is cute, but it is just not good enough for serious play.

[Guli]

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[Imsomniac101]

The problem with making gamble good, is that you need bombs to tutor for, that are good in hand (when you have a large hand size), or are good in the graveyard. Most preferably both. This is a tall order to fill, and I don't think the card pool is large enough to fill that order. I think Gamble is a card that will progressively get better in the future. But it's still not playable yet.

[Duncan]

Not that i think it's very good in this deck, but deep analysis has synergy with a topdeck-mode-gamble.

[Guli]

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[Ripcord728]

You can't cut black.  YawgWill is a game winner.  Also, the black tutors are of similar value (if not greater) to Gamble.  For instance, instead of casting Gush and then Gambling for a Fastbond, you can Imperial Seal/Vampiric Tutor for a Fastbond, then cast Gush, and wind up with the same card count while cutting out the 12.5 percentage chance of randomly discarding the Fastbond.  Demonic Tutor even better than Imperial and Vampiric, (in general, that is, with perhaps an exception for this single circumstance).  Demonic Consultation is probably not usable, as Fastbond and Yawg Will cannot be Consulted for reliably, as to do so could remove one or the other in the top 6, or leave so few remaining cards that a win isn't possible.

I agree with the inclusion of a sole Flashback card for the case in which you hold Gamble and no (or very few) other cards.  Deep Analysis is probably best.  I know that the deck already uses Recoup, but I still do not quite understand the function that this card (along with Regrowth, Reclaim, etc) plays in the deck.  While I did say that Yawg Will is a game winner, it's important to realize that Storm Elementals do this as well.  (If you've got a bunch of cards in your hand, it's safe to say that you can protect yourself long enough for a 7/7 haste to win the game.)  Recoup for Time Walk, a Draw 7, or Yawg Will is expensive and will often be dead.  Cut them all.

8 creatures is far too many.  Cut all of the Dryads.  The deck needs to be able to find Fastbond and go off as soon as possible, without having to slow down to cast a two-drop first.  Besides, there are other cards that this deck could use better in their places.  For starters, what happens if after Gushing, the Gamble or Fastbond is countered?  Since the Gush/Gamble move can't be played until turn two anyway, turn one should be spent productively.  And now that we're including black, I definitely recommend 3-4 Duress.  The only other way I can think of to protect the combo (assuming, as it will generally be, with only randomly-colored Moxen available) is Misdirection.  Daze wouldn't work in this specific scenario, but it does have synergy with Fastbond.  It's a question mark in my book.

WIN:
4 Storm Entity
1 Yawgmoth's Will

TUTORS:
4 Gamble
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal

DRAW:
4 Gush
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Deep Analysis

DISRUPTION:
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
2 Misdirection
1 Chain of Vapor

MISC:
1 Fastbond
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Darksteel Collossus

MANA:
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt

I don't think that is list is 100 percent optimal, as it hasn't been tested, but I believe that it is a far better base to begin discussion.