Trinket Magus

[ErkBek]

I've decided that Trinket Mage is the modern day Phid and would probably be better in the deck than Phid. Moon Magus is a definite 4-of in here too. Here's what I've got for a list (largely based off Kowal's UR phid list):

4 Magus Moon
4 Trinket Mage

1 Tormod’s
1 Pithing Needle
2 Chalice of the Void

1 Dominate
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Fire/Ice
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Repeal

4 FoW
2 MisD
4 Drain
1 Counterspell
1 Red Blast

1 Ancestral
2 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Walk

23 Mana
7 Sol-lo-moxen
1 Library
7 Island
5 Fetches
3 Volc

SB
4 FTK
4 Rack and Ruin
4 Leyline
3 Trickbind

I thought about Counterbalance top in the deck, but it just didn't seem worthwhile. The draw engine in the deck kinda sucks, but the deck would build card advantage via Magus Moon, Trinket Mage, and Chalice @1. That seems like a lot better of a way to build card advantage than running a set of Phids.

Repeal is mostly in the deck to build some tempo since it can be somewhat of a tempo hole at times when casting Trinket Mage or Merchant Scroll to find answers.

Trickbind on board is to help the Flash matchup since everyone has switched to counters over duress. I'm not sure, but the deck may need some more ways to deal with an early Dryad, but for now the main plan is to kill it with EE (probably found by Trinket Mage).

I did a little testing and the deck seemed really solid, but not for me. I figured I'd share the list since it seems like a good alternative to bomberman.

[Grand Inquisitor]

This looks pretty solid, but it doesn't seem to have much in the way of come from behind cards except for dominate and maybe E.E.

I was working on something similar, but with the white splash for mindcensor.  The cute trick was:
magus>trinket>pearl/lotus>mindcensor

That's a pretty tough lock for most decks.  Also, early mindcensors cut down their ability to find islands and avoid magus.  The creatures served as a pretty good clock, and I went back and forth with Salvager combo ftw.

For this list, just for consistency's sake, why not:

-1 repeal
-1 F/I
-1 E.E.
+2 Merchant Scroll
+1 Echoing Truth
?

That, and I think I remember hearing multiple reports where people wanted Volc#4 over fetches or islands.  I know you're fond of the fetch based mana base, but...

[zeus-online]

Why not Fact or fiction instead of a thirst? Seems better...Also, this deck can't just bury the opponent in card-advantage the way phid always did...
My worry is that you will loose to the second wave of brokenness, instead of the first one.

This might not matter against flash, but against long or belcher this could be fatal...Not to mention control mirrors.

/Zeus

[MaxxMatt]

Nice ideas! Congratz.

On a quick note: would be better to use Remands instead of Counterspell, ReB and Mis-D#2?
Coupling Remands' dalaying effect with MotMoon will be more sinergic with the deck, will draw you cards and use a single U instead of UU, R or Pitch cards.

I shuffled and played a bit your list with Remands. It is a strong turn 1 or 2 play, especially if thinking about your opponents fetching for duals.
If you see them fetching and playing spells thanks to dual lands, you can remand it into their hand, probably avoiding the spells at all for a lot of turns. It is better than the other counters, because it cicles itself.

If they are playing spells of their own primarily color, you can mimic the "control.role", Remanding things to their hands in a first instance and then Draining them and fueling your 3cc spells, without completely tapping you out. During this process, Remands play a more sinergic role than the random 1of inserted to the maindeck.

If you consider that playing without BS will leave you without fixers, playing multiple spells that can cicle themselves is CRUCIAL to fix unperfect or slower hands

Dominate can become AetherSpellBomb. It is a tutorable global bouncer and it can cicle itself.

The other choices ( repeals, mscroll and control board elements ) are really good.

What do you think about those issues?

[ErkBek]

For this list, just for consistency's sake, why not:

-1 repeal
-1 F/I
-1 E.E.
+2 Merchant Scroll
+1 Echoing Truth

Well, the problem with doing this would be that tutoring up answers with Scroll or Trinket Mage is nowhere near as good as just having the Fire/Ice or EE already in hand. For example, what if your opponent resolves Dark Confidant on turn 1 or 2. You've got to scroll up Fire and pass the turn hoping not to get duressed. Trinket Mage also doesn't find EE fast enough vs. Flash or Oath.

I do think the mindcensor idea was cool though. One thing I'd be careful though is having too many 3 drops that you really want to cast ASAP. Flash gives mindcensor a huge boost though.

Why not Fact or fiction instead of a thirst? Seems better...Also, this deck can't just bury the opponent in card-advantage the way phid always did...
My worry is that you will loose to the second wave of brokenness, instead of the first one.

This might not matter against flash, but against long or belcher this could be fatal...Not to mention control mirrors.

Fact never crossed my mind when building this deck....sad I know. One thing I do like about TFK though is it is a filter effect which is more important without Brainstorm in the deck.

As for winning long battles, Chalice @1 really helps in that situation. Chalice hits 4 cards in this deck (sol ring, needle, Reb, and ancestral) meanwhile it will likely hit at least 8 cards in my opponents deck (probably more like 12). Magus of the Moon is also virtual card advantage b/c he shuts down the opponent's ability to play spells.

I shuffled and played a bit your list with Remands. It is a strong turn 1 or 2 play, especially if thinking about your opponents fetching for duals.

I like the idea of remands in here much of the same reason Repeal was added. I probably wouldn't cut more than 1 hard counter to fit them in though.

Dominate is nuts right now. Lots of creatures are seeing play right now and this is a Scrollable/Insant Speed way to steal creatures. Aether SpellBomb just seems like a marginal Trinket Mage target when you can get EE.

On thing I noticed is that I've only got 1 REB in the maindeck and 0 on the board. When changing the cards around in the deck I didn't notice that, probably 2 or 3 Blasts need to find their way back to the sideboard.

Like I said, I'm probably not going to keep playing the deck, but I'd be happy to help lead the discussion on it if other people are interested.

[Sextiger]

Interesting deck, hopefully I will have time to test it.  It's similar to something I developed a while ago except it was like Fish, more creatures and less counters, it worked pretty damn well. 

[Zherbus]

I think the original list, as posted is severly hot. The only change I would make is:

-1 Chalice
+1 Sensei's Divining Top

It's awesome even without Counterbalance.

[Dr_Tongue]

 I'm also running a U/R build with the maindeck REB(s) because of the Flash deck. Seems FoW in hand doesn't matter anymore as you'll need backup help w/ Blasts and Drains ,etc.
 Aside from LotV in the SB, I've also found another hoser that you can get into play quickly that the Flash (Sliver) has to deal with in order to win. Combine him with your permission and LotV it's an uphill battle for Flash.

 Bloodfire Dwarf  R (AP) common
R,Sacrifice ~this~ and deal 1 damage to each creature w/o flying
(no tap requirement which means you can swing and still use him w/e) Keeping R open for his use

 Not the biggest creature in the world, but he does take down a hoarde of hasted poison 4 Slivers. Just a SB creature mind you as you do have a narrow board as is. He also takes out Bob and his friendly ashtray making 1/2 cousin and Dryads who haven't grown up yet but I'd only really bring him in for Flash.


 
 

[Sextiger]

EE for 1 does pretty much the same thing as the Dwarf.

[ErkBek]

Dwarf would also be pretty decent vs. ichorid since it'd kill all Narco's and Ichorids in play, meanwhile RFG'g bridge.

Trickbind is really my solution to Flash. Not all builds play Duress (in the main or board) and if you catch them using a pact then the games over. Once you add Leyline and Explosives to the mix, Flash is really going to have some problems.....but I'm not sure I'd call it a favorable matchup. 

[daikunzeon]

hi, was looking at the list. would sulfur elemental be good in this deck? seems a lot of people play aven mindcensor and it can even go head to head with jotun grunt.

also instead of tfk, would gush be a better draw engine for this?

[ErkBek]

hi, was looking at the list. would sulfur elemental be good in this deck? seems a lot of people play aven mindcensor and it can even go head to head with jotun grunt.

also instead of tfk, would gush be a better draw engine for this?

This deck really isn't hosed by Mindcensor at all. You play 2 Merchant Scrolls and 4 Trinkets and that's it for tutoring. You also play a shit ton of lands and not very many fetches, so I'm not really all that worried about mindcensor. Maybe if you've got a lot of UW Lion fish with Mindcensor then Sulfur Elemental will be the nuts in your metagame, but I don't see it being needed.

TFK is the draw spell I liked best because it filtered cards. Gush is just going to clog things up and get hosed by Magus of the Moon.

[The Demon]

May I ask why do you run dominate over threads of disloyalty?  It would seem to me that Threads would hit almost every single creature that you want anyway while at the very worst costing the exact same as Dominate even before you have to start paying the X for it.  The only other big time creature that sees play that threads doesn't get is Psychatog (I don't see alot of Tinker for big dudes anymore). 

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

May I ask why do you run dominate over threads of disloyalty?  It would seem to me that Threads would hit almost every single creature that you want anyway while at the very worst costing the exact same as Dominate even before you have to start paying the X for it.  The only other big time creature that sees play that threads doesn't get is Psychatog (I don't see alot of Tinker for big dudes anymore). 

Well, there are Merchant Scrolls in the deck, that should be reason enough.

[Meeee]

Magus, Mindcensor, and Auriok Salvagers to name a few creatures that threads doesn't hit.  It’s also an instant since this deck doesn't look like it wants to tap low on its turn in the mid-late game that can be pretty important.  Also REB will undoubtedly be board in against this deck and while it counters both, it can't remove Dominates effect once it resolves whereas it can destroy threads.  Also it’s a blue instant as pointed out by Mon.

[horse the name]

I love the list, kobefan! Have you ever thought about adding a more concrete win condition? I know I would be nervous relying on 2/2's to finish my opponent off. Would it be worth it to try and squeeze in at least one Morphling/Teferi/Meloku?

[And11]

I stole some of your ideas and came up with this. It's very solid against Flash, GushStorm and GAT. The sideboard should be used to solve issues with Ichorid and opposing "aggro" decks. I love the idea of having two sets of toolboxes thanks to Trinket Mage and Merchant Scroll and decided to build the deck there after. My current list:

BEATS: 12
4x Trinket Mage (it's versatile AND kills the enemy slowly )
4x Magus of the Moon (mana bases are so bad right now + he turns sideways!)
4x Aven Mindcensor (the friggin balls in the current fetch/scroll/flash-heavy format)

TOOLBOX: 7
1x Chalice of the Void (solid disruption)
1x Tormod's Crypt (great to have around with ichorid in the format)
1x Engineered Explosives (lovely allround card, kills slivers, moxen, oath, dryads to name a few)
1x Sensei's Divining Top (if you keep a shaky hand or if you expect a long game, this card will win you games)
1x Echoing Truth (answer to Tinker and ETW)
1x Fire//Ice (basically to take out bob and welder)
1x Dominate (steals dryads)

NO WAY: 8
4x Force of Will
4x REB (you need to push the GAT and Flash matchup in your favor and these do so)

DRAW/SEARCH/BROKEN: 11
4x Brainstorm
4x Merchant Scroll (minimal drawengine makes scroll->recall very common in the early game, also fetches silverbullets or even FOF later on)
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Fact or Fiction (played TFK at first, but the 1 mana was never an issue)
1x Time Walk

MANA: 23
6x Fetch
5x Mox
1x Lotus
1x Sol Ring
3x Volcanic Island
1x Tundra (one is sufficient b/c of 6 fetches. As mentioned earlier, you can play Trinket->Lotus/Pearl under a Magus if you need W. Your opponent will not see it coming)
6x Island

Sideboard: 15
4x Leyline of the Void (FOR SURE)
Pithing Needle, Rack and Ruin, Control Magic/Threads of Disloyalty, Meddling Mage? (any suggestions?)

0x Mana Drains (it seems that with a full set of scrolls and a larger creature base, this card isn't needeed in this build. If it's the better build, i'll let you decide)
0x Pithing Needle (I guess if you suspect a lot of ichorid, this wuold make it to the maindeck)
0x Seat of the Synod (if you're short of mana, you can get Sol Ring or Lotus instead)

The deck is 61 cards right now. I played with 1 less Island, but thought I needed that extra "half" land. Might notice the difference after 10 tournaments...only all aggro decks goes to the trash can after 1

Thanks for the brilliant ideas ,
/Andreas, Denmark

[bebe]

I don't like reopening threads as a general rule but I thougt it appropriate to share a few thoughts on his deck s it ha all the tools to be threat in today's meta.

Well I've been testing he deck and as meta hate decks go it is quite strong. And11's version played out well so I did a bit of testing and tweaking. It has game against most decks and the sideboard has a sweet surprise for GaT Fish, etc. in a suite of cards that puts an early Dreadnought in play. Followed by a Magus it is really strong. The deck plays combo well and has answers for the common vintage decks. 

CREATURE SET: 11
4x Trinket Mage
4x Magus of the Moon
3x Aven Mindcensor

TOOLBOX: 7
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Fire//Ice
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought

COUNTER SUITE: 11
4x Force of Will
3x REB
3x Stifle
1x Echoing Truth

DRAW/SEARCH: 9
4x Brainstorm
3x Merchant Scroll
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk

MANA: 22
5x Fetch Land
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
2x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
6x Island

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 FtK
2 Goblin Welder/Academy Ruins
3 Shattering Spree
1 Trickbind
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 ReB


Now some slots are up for grabs still. I generally like the counter suite as it works well with the toolbox and creature set. But you can see what I'm undecided on. Counterbalance works very well ith Brainstorm and Sensei's Top but with Magus and Mindcensor it might just be overkill. Mana Drains are quite nice. However, I'm using Stifle because its cc is lower and it counters flash Overall I think the deck has a lot of potential and is a solid idea that can be worked on for best results. It just might morph into a  Dreadnought deck essentially in the end  as stifles and trickinds are pretty good with Magus an adding another Dread is quite doable maindeck.

[MirariKnight]

I really like to way that list looks. I've been trying to make some sort of Magus deck for a while now, and I love having him with Mindcensor, which are both really powerful effects right now imo. Dreadnought is really really sick with Trinket Mage imo. maybe running one maindeck would work, while having the Stifle effects be mained as well. I personally like 4 Stifle over the 2/2 split but I guess that's a personal choice.
The thing that I'm seeing now a lot if Merchant Scroll in pretty much every deck. I really don't think it's that good here. In Flash it gets the combo and in GAT it gets Gush, here it gets Ancestral and then pretty much nothing (I guess Brainstorm or FoW which seem like weak plays). Maybe that would be where to fit in the Stifles maindeck.

[bebe]

Merchant Scroll is the second half of the toolbox fetching fire/ice, echoing, chain, ancestral, dominate and other counters. If indeed Dreadnought is added and stifles, which are good even without the Dreadnought when using Magus, Scroll is even better. It is a card that almost warrants restriction as it is quite abusable in a number of decks. 

[madmanmike25]

@ And11 and Bebe's lists

I really like the addition of Mindcensor.  I would say that 4 might be too many though.  The fact that Trinket Mage can get you either Black Lotus or Mox Pearl to help cast him is a huge plus.  Have you considered Lotus Petal for this as well??  Also, I would think that the faster you get a Magus or Aven online the better.

And credit to Bebe, I think the addition of Dreadnought is PERFECT.  What better way to complement a temporary disruption package than with a 12/12 trampler?  I want to see him MD, I bet he helps out immensely against Fish or Goblins.  I would suggest trying this out in Bebe's list:

-1 Chain of Vapor
-2 Spellsnare/Drain/Counterbalance

+1 Dreadnought(one tutorable slot for a potential kill in 2 turns, can that be bad?)
+1 Stifle(a good complement to REB against Flash decks)
+1 Mystical Tutor/Stifle/Trickbind or maybe Cunning Wish?  Is Scroll->Wish too slow?

I notice neither of your lists has Mystical Tutor, why?  I think 3 Scroll, 1 Mystical is a good mix.

Bebe, you prefer EE#2 over Pithing Needle MD?

Also, since I haven't tested the list I'm curious about which decklist has the most stable mana base.  And11 runs all the moxen, Bebe only 3.   Either of you care to justify this?

An interesting deck, and nice additions all in all.  This looks like it plays similar to Fish but with better creatures.

[And11]

This'll be a quick comment, since I'm about to go out soon.

bebe, I like your version also and I guess it comes down to personal preference. After all, you only made slight changes and kept the concept of my original deck list. Great idea with the StifleNaught, I'll look into that later on.

About running full set of moxen: 1st turn Scroll->Force or Scroll->Recall with REB backup for turn 2 and 2nd turn Magus/Trinket/Aven are all great plays. You _need_ your disruption online in time. Remember, you're playing Fish here.

Great to have this thread active again and once again sorry for the short reply.

/Andreas

[bebe]

I really want the mana crypt and sol ring more than the extra two moxen and would consider adding a lotus petal ( in place of the sol ring ). As And11 said we are talking about personal preferences here and I found you can get very early disruption with the mana base I tested. The deck needs more testing as it is certainly a beta version as it stands now.

I'm not against adding two stifles an a dread main deck but are they needed in most match ups? Certainly stifles are always useful so
the spot taken by spell snares an chain certainly would be where they would go. The chain can go in the side for the dread. This just one more element to test but my gut already fel hey needed to go main deck to fight off aggro a little more and perhaps force combo into reactive stance instead of a proactive one ( a common enough tactic I suppose ).

And11 - I was working on a bomberman build and this is really a natural extension -stifle/nought can be your combo element without really upsetting the balance of the deck. Your list had many of the cards already in my bomberman build. I think with some thought sme testing we can produce  very strong archetype.

**MODIFIED LIST FOR THE PROPOSED CHANGES

[MirariKnight]

I played something really similar to this at Dave Feinstein's Mox Tournament and top 8ed. It's really good. It has the answers to everything. I destroyed Flash (and Tendrils) in my testing (I mained stifles too so I had like 15 answers to Flash as long as I could drop 1 mana). Magus of the Moon and Mindcensor are really bad for GAT. I held up to Golbins as well be siding Balance and FTK's, and I beat Stax with sided Shattering Sprees. No one expects the Dreadnought to come in, he was AWESOME for me.
The other good thing about this deck is that people assumed I was playing Bomberman and sided in stuff to stop that combo, then after the match they realize that there are no Salvagers....even though they got a few Needles on them.

[And11]

MirariKnight:

First of all, congratulations with your great finish and props for trying out something new at a big tourney. Needless to say, I'm very curious about your exact deck list and how the f*** you squeezed in the 4x Stifle. I think sideboarded FTK's along with a Dreadnought is the right move against goblins, good call.

It seems this deck is able hate out pretty much every deck out there. Shops should be hard, but I'm glad the Spree treated you well.

I haven't done any testing my self recently due to other duties in real life, but I'll get back on MWS with the deck soon, I hope at least.

[bleakill]

Would the recent rise of Goblins warrant the inclusion of 2-3 Pyroclasms side? The Goblin matchup seems pretty harsh due to their varied CC and semi-unblockable Piledrivers (your only out G2/3 seems to be the dreadnought but they are packing Sprees, too). 'Clasms can be randomly good against Fish as well and pretty much all other rogue creature decks. What if we make the side looking like this?:
1 REB
4 LLotV
2 Shattering Spree/Rack and ruin
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Stifle
2 Trickbind
2 Pyroclasm (used to be Threads of disloyalty)

[bebe]

I think both pyroclasm and ftk have their pros ad cons. I would veer towards the FTks myself as was played at the tournament. With Dread backup it should be quite decent. I'm very glad to see this deck being played with some success.  I'm going to move a least one dread and two Stifles maindeck in the build and see how that goes.

[MirariKnight]

This was the list I ran:

UWR Mountains
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
6 Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
5 Blue Fetch Lands
1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
3 REB
3 Stifle
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
4 Trinket Mage
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fire/Ice

Sideboard:
4 Leyline
1 Balance
2 FTK
1 Tinker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Stifle
1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
1 Pithing Needle
3 Shattering Spree

I really wanted the Dreadnought main, Tormod's sucked all day. FTK was AWESOME against almost everything. Workshop decks weren't really that hard to beat, Workshop is a mountain, Wastelands are mountains, Shattering Spree with a Magus out is ridiculous. Probably one of the worst matchups, but I was able to beat Stax with this list.
I wouldn't go anywhere near Pryoclasm. Your creatures all die to it, and you have very little pressure as it is, which is why I'd want Dreadnoughts main. I went 1-1-1 with Goblins (drew the last game after a huge Balance) with the FTKs, Dreadnoughts, Balance and Platz. I know it looks like Tinker is hard to use but I never had a problem with it. Platz also comes off a Drain really easily. 
Someone actually sided in Pyroclasm against in a deck that could only cast it off Ruby or Lotus. I guess he was expecting Magi. Pyroclasm was one of the worst spells they could play against you in my opinion.

[bebe]

MirariKnight - Well you have inspired me to make a few changes to the deck. I did add the Dread and Stifles to my main deck and scooped your Spree tech up ( I like them better then R&R now . I did add Welders to the side to fight a little fire with fire - I can bring back my Crypt and EEs ( even at 0 thy take out EtW tokens and moxen ) retrieve a lotus or if needed and take out my opponents annoying artifacts possibly ( assuming he has one in he yard - think platz or collosus ). Also they can be usefull against Rods if again an artifact is in th grave. If they don't work out I'll find other solutions. I see Vial Goblins, Stax, an Urphid decks being a challenge as wel as hinky decks sporting four Null rods or multiple Needles. But all these problems have solutions.

[MirariKnight]

But all these problems have solutions.

That I think is the beauty of this deck, is that you NEVER feel like you don't have the answer.
I kinda like the Welder idea, it definately warrants testing. I Colossus could really be a problem for the deck, the only answers being whatever bounce spell you choose to run and making a stalemate with a Dreadnought. This would probably improve the Needle and Null Rod matchups too. I could also see a cool play like weld out our own mox for the lotus, flash in Mindcensor or something similar, and helping you out with colors under a Magus.
I still don't think the Stax matchup is that bad however. Magus shuts makes Crucible a dead card. We have needle for Welder, and Shattering Spree under a Magus is has the potential to wipe their board clear. The worst things the have in my opinion are Triskellions which are really bad for us.
Vial Goblins is a tough match. Thats the reason I ran Balance and FTK, but its still tough. I still hate how Piledriver is pro-blue. The best plays are Chalice at one on the play (no Lackey or Vial), EE for Piledrivers, or FTK. The problem with Pyroclasm in this matchup are that it probably wipes both boards of creatures, but they recover so much faster than we can. I still don't know how to make this matchup good, but at least we have better game against Goblins than GAT or Flash.