TheManaDrain.com
September 20, 2025, 03:21:56 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 19
  Print  
Author Topic: Six of One, Half Dozen of the Other  (Read 134810 times)
Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #360 on: June 16, 2009, 12:21:03 am »



I would like to see you do this again, this time with a Jar deck, Flash, and Trinistax.  Alternatively, maybe an article where you take a couple of the controversial cards people have occasionally advocated for unrestriction, like Fact or Fiction, Enlightened Tutor, Grim Monolith, Entomb, etc., and build decks to abuse them, seeing how they fare against a gauntlet from the current meta (and maybe against each other).  Near as I can tell, though, you get both of these requests, in some form or another, pretty often.


So, guess what?

Five years later, I'm reprising that article.

It will be coming out soon, depending on how long it takes me to finish playing the matches and writing everything up.

Here are the decks I've chosen, in chronological order:

1) BBS
2) Burning Academy (Long.dec)
3) Trinistax
4) Meandeck Gifts
5) Hulk Flash
6) GroAtog

I haven't chosen a Jar deck since there is no documented Vintage Jar deck which I've ever been able to find.   Also, I don't think it would be very good against these field anyway.  It's just too antiquated, even though it's ridiculously broken.   Tendrils >>>> Megrim.  

I'm  playing only decks that were played in actual tournaments, and all under pre-M10 rules (for example, Long loses alot of functionality under post-M10 rules).   The only question is which Trinistax list I should use.   Currently, the list on my guantlet is Kevin Cron's SCG winning Trinistax list.   The problem is that that list only had 3 Trinispheres maindeck, with one in the sideboard.

Here are my questions:

1) Which Trinisphere deck should I use?

2) What are your predictions for the matchups?   Which deck will win?  And what will be the respective records of each archetype?

Brian DeMars already predicts that Trinistax will be the only 5-0.  What do you think?  
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 12:34:40 am by Smmenen » Logged

zeus-online
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1807


View Profile
« Reply #361 on: June 16, 2009, 01:57:45 am »

I think gifts will win, GAT will probably rip it apart, and flash might be difficult for it, but the rest shouldn't be that bad.

GAT would be my other choice (I'm assuming you're using one of the latest lists and not those old ones from back in the day)

My reasoning:
Gifts plays enough basics and bounce to get around trinistax, and has scroll -> FoW against combo.

BBS is just too slow and old for it to realisticly win. The 3-4 maindeck misdirections might help a bit against GAT and gifts though, since their plan heavily involves early ancestral.

Long will have problems with 8-duress GAT, scroll-> Force from gifts and a boat-load of counters from BBS aswell as trinisphere from stax.

Stax will probably have alot of trouble with gifts and BBS given that they're playing so many basics.

GAT seems like a good choice against everything but trinistax, so it could also win.
Logged

The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
Troy_Costisick
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1804


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #362 on: June 16, 2009, 10:34:09 am »

Quote
So, guess what?

Five years later, I'm reprising that article.


I loved that article.  I do have one question, though.  Did you have space for only one Gush deck?  Tyrant Oath and MSPaint turned out to be the two best Gush decks IMHO at the end of the second Gush era.  Also, given the fact that you have been advocating unrestricting Balance, is there room in your testing group for an old Balance.dec of some kind? 

As for my predictions of what you have listed, I'd like to have lists to make more informed guesses, but I believe they'd finish like this:

Burning Academy (Long.dec) [if it has main deck Rebuilds]
Hulk Flash [if it's the Reveilark kill and used Pact of Negation offensively]
Trinistax
Meandeck Gifts
GroAtog
BBS

I'm really looking forward to this article.  I think it's a very worthy exercise.

Peace,

-Troy
Logged

wiley
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 764


garrettlwiley
View Profile
« Reply #363 on: June 16, 2009, 10:46:52 am »

Also, given the fact that you have been advocating unrestricting Balance, is there room in your testing group for an old Balance.dec of some kind?

Maysonet Rack Balance (the only tournament balance deck outside of 5c stax) was in the last article.  It was the worst performer (expectedly ... the game was different then).  Prison control decks outside of trinistax won't do very well.  The best of the broken combo decks can just ignore them.  This is why BBS will suck ... a lot.

If I had to guess then I would put a final ranking at:

Gifts
Stax
Gro
Flash
BBS

As for which trinistax list to run, I'm a fan of this one:

SCG Power Nine Tournament 17.07.2004
- 167 players

2. Eric Miller

Maindeck (60):
Spells (42):
1 Black Lotus
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Duplicant
1 Grim Monolith
4 Juggernaut
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Sol Ring
3 Su-Chi
4 Trinisphere
2 Triskelion
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Burning Wish
2 Goblin Welder
1 Swords to Plowshares

Lands (18):
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15):
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Balance
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Damping Matrix
1 Dust to Dust
1 Hull Breach
2 Rack and Ruin
1 Sundering Titan
1 Timetwister
1 Vindicate
Logged

Team Arsenal
Anusien
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 3669


Anusien
View Profile
« Reply #364 on: June 16, 2009, 11:07:04 am »

I feel like using historical decks is better suited for entertainment than drawing conclusions about the present.  I'd be more interested in seeing the best 4 Burning Wish 4 LED deck you could make now rather than whether a deck can beat a metagame it was never prepared for.  This keeps you from putting a Stax list with 3 Chains of Mephistopheles against a deck with Brainstorm restricted.  In other words, make the best 4 Trinisphere deck you can now.  Or make the best 4 Balance Stax list you could make.  It's far more work, but I think it lets you draw conclusions from things.  Similarly, I imagine the best 4 Fact or Fiction list is not BBS but some sort of faux-Gifts deck (Drain Tendrils style).
Logged

Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator

Quote from: H.L. Mencken
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
wiley
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 764


garrettlwiley
View Profile
« Reply #365 on: June 16, 2009, 11:14:13 am »

Doesn't that just turn into the unrestricted vintage article he did a while ago?  All these decks are from different time periods with different B/R lists and different set legalities.  Is there really a way to effectively remedy that without redoing that article?

3 chains happens to work wonders against gro, bbs and to an extent gifts.  It also hurts flash a lot if it can ever come down.  The meta is mostly blue combo, not so different from what that list came from.
Logged

Team Arsenal
Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #366 on: June 16, 2009, 11:22:36 am »

I feel like using historical decks is better suited for entertainment than drawing conclusions about the present.

Did you feel that the first article I wrote on the battle of banned list was otherwise? 
Logged

JACO
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1215


Don't be a meatball.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #367 on: June 16, 2009, 02:13:49 pm »

So, guess what?

Five years later, I'm reprising that article.

It will be coming out soon, depending on how long it takes me to finish playing the matches and writing everything up.

Here are the decks I've chosen, in chronological order:

1) BBS
2) Burning Academy (Long.dec)
3) Trinistax
4) Meandeck Gifts
5) Hulk Flash
6) GroAtog

I haven't chosen a Jar deck since there is no documented Vintage Jar deck which I've ever been able to find.   Also, I don't think it would be very good against these field anyway.  It's just too antiquated, even though it's ridiculously broken.   Tendrils >>>> Megrim.  

I'm  playing only decks that were played in actual tournaments, and all under pre-M10 rules (for example, Long loses alot of functionality under post-M10 rules).   The only question is which Trinistax list I should use.   Currently, the list on my guantlet is Kevin Cron's SCG winning Trinistax list.   The problem is that that list only had 3 Trinispheres maindeck, with one in the sideboard.

Here are my questions:

1) Which Trinisphere deck should I use?

2) What are your predictions for the matchups?   Which deck will win?  And what will be the respective records of each archetype?

Brian DeMars already predicts that Trinistax will be the only 5-0.  What do you think?  
Instead of wasting time doing that, why don't you do a mini-series of articles based on the following metagame:
Unrestricted Burning Wish
Unrestricted Gush
Unrestricted Trinisphere OR Balance (either one or the other, but not both)
Unrestricted Flash
Unrestricted Ponder
Unrestricted Grim Monolith
Unrestricted Frantic Search
[Possibly] Unrestricted Channel

[Everything else on B/R remaining static]

Team MeanDeck is supposed to be composed of some of the Format's most brilliant minds, so you and your team should come up with some updated versions of old very powerful decks, as well as maybe a couple of new decks based on this potential format, if the DCI was to take action that I think you and I would both deem appropriate. The articles would be very entertaining, and you'd already have a jump on the (potentially new) metagame.
Logged

Want to write about Vintage, Legacy, Modern, Type 4, or Commander/EDH? Eternal Central is looking for writers! Contact me. Follow me on Twitter @JMJACO. Follow Eternal Central on Twitter @EternalCentral.
zeus-online
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1807


View Profile
« Reply #368 on: June 16, 2009, 02:41:51 pm »

Instead of wasting time doing that

That's a little harsh isn't it? I, and alot of other people really enjoyed the last one like this, i've read it multiple times as i find it fascinating to see some of the old monsters clash against each other. I'd just love it if you added Tezzeret to the list, since people are claiming it's the best drain deck ever, why not include it, just to see? (oh and my prediction for Tez would be that it would loose to everything and maybe get a win in against Trinistax)

I think jaco's idea for articles is cool though, but i'd probably wait for the B/R announcement before making (or planning to make) such an article.

/Zeus
Logged

The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
wiley
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 764


garrettlwiley
View Profile
« Reply #369 on: June 16, 2009, 02:56:45 pm »

I'd just love it if you added Tezzeret to the list, since people are claiming it's the best drain deck ever, why not include it, just to see?

/Zeus

That sounds awesome!
Logged

Team Arsenal
LordHomerCat
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1397

Lord+Homer+Cat
View Profile
« Reply #370 on: June 16, 2009, 03:25:18 pm »

But Tezz isn't a banned deck.  Therefore, how would it make sense to battle against the other banned decks...  You are aware that you can just try it out for yourselves if you are curious.
Logged

Team Meandeck

Team Serious

Quote from: spider
LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #371 on: June 16, 2009, 05:06:55 pm »

I'm honestly not sure what the outcomes might be.  But here are my predictions:

          GAT    Flash    Gifts   Trinistax   Long   BBS

GAT     X       GAT     GAT   Stax        Long   GAT  

Flash   GAT     X       Flash   Flash       Flash    Flash

Gifts   GAT     Flash   X        Gifts        Long    Gifts

Stax   Stax     Flash    Gifts      X         Stax    BBS

Long  Long   Flash     Long    Stax      X        Long

BBS    GAT    Flash    Gifts    BBS        Long   X

Those are my predictions.   I think that:

Flash will go 4-1
Long will go 3-2
GAT will go 3-2
Stax will go 2-3
Gifts will go 2-3
BBS will go 1-4

The only way Gifts can beat Flash is depending on the sideboard.  

In the Long v. Trinistax matchup, I think the winner will depend on who wins the die roll.   If Long wins the die roll, it can easily goldfish two turn one wins against a counterspell-less deck.   I think Flash will be able to edge out Stax just by virtue of being able to win under Trinisphere by playing a single spell.  

Where would Tezzeret fall here?   Tezzeret would get CRUSHED by GAT and wouldn't beat Meandeck Gifts (4 Scrolls >>) x, but it would potentially face off against anything else on here.   With 4 Duress main, you could potentially fight Flash and Long.   I could see you beating BBS too, and I could easily see you beating Trinistax. 

Logged

zeus-online
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1807


View Profile
« Reply #372 on: June 16, 2009, 05:26:04 pm »

I'm not sure i agree with that, i think you're overestimating long and underestimating gifts, could be wrong but:

I think long will fold to 8 duress effects, FoW and Scroll-> FoW. The latest GAT decks are much stronger then the one you used last time.

I also think gifts will have a good shot at beating long on the back of scroll for force.

I expect GAT to beat every deck except Stax.
Gifts will beat everything except GAT and maybe flash.
BBS will beat stax and loose to everything else, maybe stealing a win against one of the combo decks.
Long could potentially beat: Flash, Gifts and BBS...The rest will rip it apart, and i'm betting that Flash willl beat it and gifts will give it a run for the money.
Flash - Not to sure, didn't play much when 4 flash was legal.
Trinistax will beat Long (It will probably win every game where it gets a turn) and GAT, maybe beat flash (chalice would probably help?) and loose to BBS and Gifts.

I look forward to see the results! Smile And i hope you'll try including Tez, if Tez manages to finish first, it's clearly too strong for vintage Wink
Logged

The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
JACO
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1215


Don't be a meatball.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #373 on: June 16, 2009, 06:07:22 pm »

Instead of wasting time doing that

That's a little harsh isn't it? I, and alot of other people really enjoyed the last one like this, i've read it multiple times as i find it fascinating to see some of the old monsters clash against each other.
Possibly, but I don't really think I'm being harsh. Most people pay to read Premium content because they seek to gain an edge in competition, not because they want to be entertained by something totally irrlevant to the format they are interested in reading about. I think my idea would be just as entertaining (if not more so, if Steve included some insights as to how his team tackled making the best versions of decks), and would provide a glimpse into something that would interest tournament players.
Logged

Want to write about Vintage, Legacy, Modern, Type 4, or Commander/EDH? Eternal Central is looking for writers! Contact me. Follow me on Twitter @JMJACO. Follow Eternal Central on Twitter @EternalCentral.
nataz
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1535


Mighty Mighty Maine-Tone


View Profile
« Reply #374 on: June 16, 2009, 07:59:55 pm »

I'm with Jaco and Anusien here.

I
Don't
Care
About
Fake
Formats

I hated your introduction to this weeks article (but I really liked your compiled information on dredge), and disliked your first article in this vein as well. If I wanted to read about a casual format, I'd go read the casual section on TMD. Oh yea, nobody posts there anymore. Maybe that should be a hint.

There are some many interesting and relevent topics to explore. Why not chose one of them?
Logged

I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #375 on: June 16, 2009, 10:54:37 pm »

Legacy is not a fake format. 
Logged

Godder
Remington Steele
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 3264


"Steele here"

walfootrot@hotmail.com
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #376 on: June 16, 2009, 10:55:56 pm »

If Steve is going to be effective as the voice of the Vintage Community (TM), especially on the subject of restrictions, this is best backed up with data. By far the best data, at least in my opinion, will be obtained from actually testing possible decks against the current metagame.

This may seem casual, but I don't see any of you/us lining up to do it, so if it has to be Steve, so be it.
Logged

Quote from: Remington Steele
That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line.
LordHomerCat
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1397

Lord+Homer+Cat
View Profile
« Reply #377 on: June 17, 2009, 02:59:52 am »

I like seeing the old decks in action.  I mean, I didn't even play when Long.dec was legal, so seeing the ridiculous things it was capable of definitely give me this feeling of like, people playing that deck and stepping out of the dark ages of Vintage and ushering in an era of real decks.  Plus, I absolutely love half of these decks and wish I could play them.  Trinistax is not one of those.
Logged

Team Meandeck

Team Serious

Quote from: spider
LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #378 on: June 17, 2009, 10:29:59 pm »

Instead of wasting time doing that

That's a little harsh isn't it? I, and alot of other people really enjoyed the last one like this, i've read it multiple times as i find it fascinating to see some of the old monsters clash against each other.
Possibly, but I don't really think I'm being harsh. Most people pay to read Premium content because they seek to gain an edge in competition, not because they want to be entertained by something totally irrlevant to the format they are interested in reading about. I think my idea would be just as entertaining (if not more so, if Steve included some insights as to how his team tackled making the best versions of decks), and would provide a glimpse into something that would interest tournament players.

Jaco,

I already took up your idea:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/17491_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Exploring_Possible_Unrestrictions_Designing_for_Balance_Channel_and_More.html

With respect to running another "Battle of the Banned" round robin tournament, I think you are underestimating how much pedagogical value there is from such an experiment.   Vintage is a format that is deeply connected to its past.   We are far less removed from it than any other format.   Understanding interactions in the past can deeply affect how we understand the present.   For example, thinking about Gifts, design, sideboard choices, etc, can have deep implications for how we think about Tezzeret.   Gifts faced the same sorts of threats that face Tez today: 5c Stax, Null Rod decks, etc.   

I have always found that looking back in the past, with the additional knowledge and smarts acquired since then, provides additional insights into the past. 

Logged

nataz
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1535


Mighty Mighty Maine-Tone


View Profile
« Reply #379 on: June 17, 2009, 11:43:16 pm »

Legacy is not a fake format. 

well color me red, I didn't mean legacy at all. For some reason I thought your CE draft section in last weeks article was in your dredge article. Anyways, w/e with legacy, its kind of interesting but I'm just going to skim over it. CE draft however is a waste of my time and money.
Logged

I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
Troy_Costisick
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1804


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #380 on: June 18, 2009, 07:19:25 am »

Stephen,

Speaking of future articles, will you be doing a set review for the new cards in M10 once it comes out?

Peace,

-Troy
Logged

Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #381 on: June 22, 2009, 10:08:50 am »

Definitely.   
Logged

wiley
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 764


garrettlwiley
View Profile
« Reply #382 on: June 22, 2009, 02:27:40 pm »

Well, now it looks like tez can go into this gauntlet, though I think most people have fairly low hopes for it.  Have you decided on any particular list for the trinistax deck?

Are you going to do a full article soon on 3 crop rotation 5c Stax?  Will you wait until after you have a tourney report for it (like chicago, or one of the philly events)?
Logged

Team Arsenal
Troy_Costisick
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1804


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #383 on: June 29, 2009, 12:54:46 pm »

Well, now it looks like tez can go into this gauntlet, though I think most people have fairly low hopes for it.  Have you decided on any particular list for the trinistax deck?

Are you going to do a full article soon on 3 crop rotation 5c Stax?  Will you wait until after you have a tourney report for it (like chicago, or one of the philly events)?

I second Wiley, and if it's not too late to add suggestions to this, how about a Time Vault-Flame Fusiliade deck?  I hear all the time that Time Vault is the problem.  It would be nice to put up a modern Time Vault deck vs. a proven old one. 

Peace,

-Troy
Logged

Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #384 on: July 28, 2009, 01:23:47 pm »

Well, now it looks like tez can go into this gauntlet, though I think most people have fairly low hopes for it.  Have you decided on any particular list for the trinistax deck?

Are you going to do a full article soon on 3 crop rotation 5c Stax?  Will you wait until after you have a tourney report for it (like chicago, or one of the philly events)?

Already done it, a few weeks ago. 
Logged

Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #385 on: August 06, 2009, 04:03:03 pm »

From the Vault: Exile - First Impressions

Yesterday, Wizards announced another special collector's reprint set.   Here are my reactions. 

First of all, the logo.



By now, everyone knows that Magic is getting a minor revamp this summer.   I think this set confirms that "Exile" is likely to be the official name of the "removed from game" zone.   The logo for this collector's set reflects that designation, is an arrow that points into the direction in which most players put their RFG cards, above and a little bit beyond the library and graveyard.

Secondly, here is the blurb describing this set:

Quote
It is said there were once fifteen Magic: The Gathering cards so potent, they were banned or restricted from the known realms of competition. But in the years that have passed, the game has evolved and these elder cards are once again in play. Master these weapons from ages past and give your opponent a beating of historic proportions.

Third, here are some facts about What we know:

1) Each of the 15 cards in the set are cards that were banned or restricted in a sanctioned format.

Wizards has given an incomplete and inaccurate list of cards that have been banned or restricted:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/149

Although that list is incomplete, I think it's safe to say that the cards in Exile are probably on this list, otherwise Wizards would have caught it.  That excludes cards that Kaztby identified such as Juggernaut and Hymn to Tourach.   Too bad.  Also, the list includes cards that have never been banned, but have been restricted. 

This list must exclude cards that are on the reprint list:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

2) These cards are historical, which I think suggests that none of them are from the most recent set(s).

3) "Weapons" may be a clue. 

4) Balance is in the set.

http://www.wizards.com/mtg/images/daily/arcana/148_9vsjv6go.jpg

That is obviously art for Balance

5) I also believe that Goblin Lackey is in the set. 

That leaves 13 cards.

What other clues do we have?

6) Let's take a look at the breakdown of sets in the previous "From the Vault" Set:

Shivan Dragon: Alpha (1993)

Dragon Whelp: Alpha (1993)

Nicol Bolas: Legends (1994)

Ebon Dragon: Portal I (1997)

Thunder Dragon: Starter 1999 (1999)

Two-Headed Dragon: Mercadian Masques (1999)

Rith, the Awakener: Invasion (2000)

Draco: Planeshift (2001)

Bladewing the Risen: Scourge (2003)

Dragonstorm: Scourge (2003)

Form of the Dragon: Scourge (2003)

Kokusho, the Evening Star: Champions of Kamigawa (2004)

Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: Guildpact (2006)

Bogarden Hellkite: Time Spiral (2006)

Hellkite Overlord: Shards of Alara (2008)

What does this breakdown tell us, factually?

A) They printed cards from a wide variety of years, but did not intend a specific representation from any given block or set.   

B) They pulled cards based on flavor as much as anything else, as Scourge got three very different cards reprinted in the set.

C) This also tells us that they are looking for cards that players will find popular and interesting. 

D) They printed cards from Starter AND Portal, indicating a willingness to do both. 

Those are the facts.   Now we enter the realm of speculation based upon what we know. 

Fourth: Speculation

We know that Balance: Alpha (1993) and Goblin Lackey: Urza's Saga (1998) are in the set. 

1) Cards I think we can safely eliminate:

A) Dark Ritual, since it is being reprinted in Foil as a Judges Rare, same goes for Rukh Egg, Hippie, Chrome Mox and Kird Ape which have all just been reprinted.   
B) The cycle of Artifacts Lands, since they are very lame printings for a set like this.
C) Any cards for Ante, since that is a part of the game that they don't want to bring back ever.

That leaves, by my count, 59 possible cards, two of which we know.  So for 13 possible slots, that is 57 cards.

2) What cards that have historically been banned most fit the description of "weapons", but that are not on the reserved list?

Doomsday: Weatherlight (1997)
Slullclamp: Darksteel  (2004)
Orcish Oriflamme: Alpha (1993)'
Cursed Scroll: Tempest (1997)
Black Vise: Alpha (1993)
Icy Manipulator: Alpha (1993)

I think Doomsday and Skullclamp seem like perfect printings for this set for several reasons: first of all, they represent very different time periods.   Secondly, they seem like the kind of powerful card they want to reprint here, without printing things that have already seen reprint or are just annoying, like Necropotence or Mind Twist.  Had it not been on the reserved list, I would have thought that cards like Sword of Ages and Guantlet of Might would be perfect. 

3) I think there is a good chance that they want Vintage players to be interested in this by printing cards that we currentyl don't have in foil, but might want.    At first I thought that they wouldn't think of Voltaic Key, but Time Vault was fixed almost six months ago, giving them probably just enough lead time to put it in.   It also has alot of historical value in Kai's old Worlds deck, so it would fit nicely.   For similar reasons, Berserk would be throwing a bone to Legacy.   I also think there is a good chance that Imperial Seal will be printed here as well for Vintage.  They have been trying to figure out how to bring back I. Seal without putting it in Standard.  This is perfect.   



CONCLUSION

I think a likely list would be:

1) Balance: Alpha (1993)
2) Goblin Lackey: Urza's Saga (1998)
3) Doomsday: Weatherlight (1997)
4) Imperial Seal: Portal Three Kingdoms (1999)
5) Lotus Petal: Tempest (1997) OR Mana Crypt: Promo (1995)
6) Skullclamp: Darksteel (2003)
7) Voltaic Key: Urza's Saga (1998)
8) Berserk: Alpha (1993)
9) Burning Wish: Judgment (2002)
10) Maze of Ith:The Dark (1994) (such a historically popular card, would also represent the Dark)

I think those 9 are the most likely reprints.

I suspect they will print two cards from each color, 1-2 land, and 3-4 artifacts.

So, beyond that:

11) Channel OR Oath of Druids OR Hermit Druid OR Regrowth
12) Flash
13) Mystical Tutor OR Fact or Fiction OR Tinker OR Windfall
14) Enlightened Tutor (Or Lin-Sivvi OR Land Tax)
15) Strip Mine (because there is nothing from Antiquities) OR Zuran Orb (to get a card from Ice Age, from that era, that remains fun for casual players)




From the Vault: Exile is released next week!    I look forward to seeing how my predictions pan out.

Logged

Diakonov
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 758


Hey Now


View Profile
« Reply #386 on: August 06, 2009, 10:46:58 pm »

Isn't it supposed to be released on the 28th?
Logged

VINTAGE CONSOLES
VINTAGE MAGIC
VINTAGE JACKETS

Team Hadley

Nefarias
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 932


NefariasAndy
View Profile
« Reply #387 on: August 06, 2009, 11:13:27 pm »

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/50

Full list spoiled in today's Latest Developments.

Also, it's officially released on the 28th, but sneak-peeked and given away at GenCon.

EDIT: You got 5 of your initial 10 right, and then another three from your "mixed bag" categories at the bottom, though two were in the same list (Mystical and Tinker). Overall, there were seven in the box that you did not list (though many are pretty awful, like Serendib and Kird Ape). Also, the fact that Maze of Ith was made into a Judge foil after you made your predictions significantly hurt that one's chances.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 12:16:45 am by Nefarias » Logged

Team GG's

Quote from: Young Jeezy
This will be the realest shit you ever quote
Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #388 on: August 07, 2009, 09:20:40 am »

The two biggest surprises are Kird Ape and Serendib Efreet.  Trinisphere is pretty surprising as well, simply because I don't think Trinisphere has the same wow factor. 

I'm also surprised they went with 4 artifacts, 4 blue spells, and only 1 black and 1 white spell.   Seems a little bit imbalanced. 
Logged

Smmenen
2007 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 6392


Smmenen
View Profile WWW
« Reply #389 on: August 14, 2009, 10:45:20 am »

My article on Monday will be the long-awaited Battle of the Banned decks.

The Competitors:

1) Tezzeret Control (Matt McNally's Waterbury winning list)
2) Hulk Flash
3) 8 Duress GroAtog
4) Meandeck Gifts (The Vintage Champs winning list)
5) Trinistax (Kevin Cron's SCG Winning list)
6) Long.dec (My list)
7) BBS (Legend Blue)

What are your predictions?   
Logged

Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15 ... 19
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.406 seconds with 19 queries.