Ethics on observing games in progress

[LotusHead]

Austin Drained a Smokestack, and during his next mainphase, totally forgot he had 4 colorless mana availiable.

He was playing GAT and had a Gush in hand (that would have soaked up the 4 mana).

I knew there was drain mana. Ochoa knew there was drain mana (Ochoa misses nothing). Junior knew there was drain mana.
The judge was there watching the game closely (the only game left in progress).

I refrained from mentioning Drain mana because A) Mentioning it might give Austin an edge, and while scouting, etc is ok by me, giving advise on his match is unethical in my book. and B) saying "Austin, burn for 4 NOOB" would piss him off (which I am OK with, but I wasn't ready to do with Ochoa, Junior and a Judge watching the play)

Now, I don't know the judge. He seems knowledgeable, and the fact that this was in the last few turns before time was called, when neither player was winning, caused both players to play slowly, think things through, as Magic is like Chess. Gotta play tight (Web Trademark, if I recall...).

The judge knew enough to recognize if a player was playing slower than he/she should, but everyone (Austin, Austin's opponent and the Judge) missed the mana drain thing.

I am fairly sure that the 4 mana from Mana Drain wouldn't have affected the overall outcome after the fact, but....

I said nothing for one reason, then kept silent because others kept silent and the judge was there too.

Is that wrong?

mentioning the drain mana seems like a no-no.
mentioning it after the fact A) Hurts a teammate B) makes me Mr. Smartypants and C) has me affect them game I am not playing in.

Now, pointing out that a card goes the the RFG zone when Leyline out is one thing, but mentioning Drain Mana which could be advantageous (pre combat) vs Dis-Advantageous (post Combat) all while being a teammate makes me wonder....

What would TMD do?

[Ephraim]

For about a year now, I've just made it a point not to watch games involving people I know, for this very reason.  I was watching my dad play at a prerelease tournament and he and his opponent were both missing things left and right.  That's sort of to be expected at a prerelease, but the problem was, I was catching the things that they were missing.  They eventually asked me to leave because my dad felt that I was distracting him and his opponent felt that I was giving my dad an unfair advantage.  Watching games involving people that you know is bound to present you with conflicts of interest like the one that you describe.  I'd rather just avoid the situation altogether, even if it means not being able to cheer on my team.

[Anusien]

If a judge is watching, absolutely tell the judge.  Otherwise you probably want to call/get a judge when you notice something like that.  It's not your place to remind players of missed triggers, but if an illegal action happens or they miss a trigger you want to let a judge know.

[Clariax]

Saying something is always the right thing to do.  It's simply a matter of how to say it, who to say it to, and when to say it.

The 'who' part is really easy.  You tell a judge.  Don't interfer with the players while they're playing the match.  Tell the judge about the problem you see, and let him do the interferring.  Also, just because the judge is watching, don't assume that he will catch everything.  Judges can and do miss or forget things, just like everyone else.

The how and when to say it can sometimes be a bit more complicated.  Tell the judge away from the match, and generally wait until there is actually something wrong.  In the given situation, for example, there isn't actually anything wrong until the phase ends and the players forget to notice the mana burn.

On the various reasons mentioned for not saying something, if you're taking actions based on whether they will hurt or help your teamate (or not taking actions), you may be helping someone cheat, or even cheating yourself.  (Sure you may well not get caught and therefore not penalized, but cheating is still cheating)

As for choosing not to say something to avoid affecting a game you're not playing, there are certain other CCGs (specifically those made by Decipher  ) in which no one, not even a judge, may interfer with a game unless requested to do so by one of the players.  Magic is not such a game.  If you see something wrong which everyone else misses, you are affecting that game.  Whether you say something (the right choice) or choose to keep silent (not the right choice), you are having an effect on the game.

While this is correct ethically, in my opinion, this is not a matter of ethics, it's a matter of rules.  If you don't feel comfortable with the idea that you may cost a friend or teamate a match due to pointing out some error the players missed, you'd do best to not spectate at all (as Ephraim chooses), but there are two sides to that coin.  By not specatating you may also not be there to point out something wrong which would allow your friend to win the match.

I said nothing for one reason, then kept silent because others kept silent and the judge was there too.

Is that wrong?

mentioning the drain mana seems like a no-no.
mentioning it after the fact A) Hurts a teammate B) makes me Mr. Smartypants and C) has me affect them game I am not playing in.

Now, pointing out that a card goes the the RFG zone when Leyline out is one thing, but mentioning Drain Mana which could be advantageous (pre combat) vs Dis-Advantageous (post Combat) all while being a teammate makes me wonder....

[LotusHead]

Saying something is always the right thing to do.  It's simply a matter of how to say it, who to say it to, and when to say it.

The 'who' part is really easy.  You tell a judge.  Don't interfer with the players while they're playing the match.  Tell the judge about the problem you see, and let him do the interferring.  Also, just because the judge is watching, don't assume that he will catch everything.  Judges can and do miss or forget things, just like everyone else.

The how and when to say it can sometimes be a bit more complicated.  Tell the judge away from the match, and generally wait until there is actually something wrong.  In the given situation, for example, there isn't actually anything wrong until the phase ends and the players forget to notice the mana burn.

Thanks for Clariaxification, but as this involved Drain Mana, and the combat was not mentioned, things were complicated.  I suppose I should let the judge decide what to do. (perhaps let Austin go back and un-noob his situation).