Tendrils Deck help for a vintage newbie

[Tuba1060]

So I'm just starting to get involved in Vintage.  I recently moved into an area with an actual vintage community, and now that my cards are finally here and unpacked from the move, I'm looking to get started. 

Since I don't really know the local meta at all (i'm playing at Eudemonia in berkely, CA if anyone cares, and while they post the results of each tournament, i still don't know the overall makeup), I'm planning on playing U/B combo, since I fell most comfortable with it for now - this may change as my Vintage experience level grows.

Anyway, here's my list.  Any and all suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea   
1x Tolarian Academy
2x City of Brass
2x Gemstone Mine
1x Mox Diamond
1x Lotus Petal   
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet   
1x Mox Pearl   
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Vault   
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring   
4x Dark Ritual   

1x Memory Jar
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
4x Brainstorm
1x Necropotence   
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timetwister   
1x Mystical Tutor
2x Merchant Scroll
1x Tinker
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Vampiric Tutor

1x Yawgmoth's Will   
2x Tendrils of Agony
4x Duress
1x Time Walk 
4x Force of Will   
2x Misdirection
1x Darksteel Colossus


Thanks in advance

Welcome to TMD. Make sure to make your topics less ambiguous. "Deck help for a vintage newbie" doesn't shed much light on the contents, so I simply added "Tendrils" in the front to better catagorize it.

-Zherbus

[The Demon]

Fact or Fiction is not a card that I would want to put in combo.  I think you could do better by making it a gifts ungiven.  Gifts Ungiven is insane in tendrils decks because you can come up with so many odd gift piles that just win the game.  I am also not a fan of Mox Diamond since you cant even play it without pitching the land first, I think you would be better off making that a spirit guide of some kind. Hurkyl's Recall/Rebuild and chain of vapor should be in your MD, you have to have at least one of those three cards. I have always loved having chain and rebuild MD, if you fizzle getting your second big bounce spell can pull you out of some tough spots.

[MirariKnight]

Looks pretty decent I agree that Mox Diamond is really bad also the 5 color lands are pretty unnecessary in 2 color combo imo. Basic Islands will save you a lot of trouble there. I also agree on Gifts>Fact for combo, and some kind of bounce is needed (for example if they play Meddling Mage on Tendrils, Chalice of the Void, etc). I like Chain of Vapor because it enables storm (play it on your moxes, make mana, keep saccing lands and replaying moxes for storm) or also repeal which is a completely free cantrip with a mox out. The first things to cut I would say are Imperial Seal and Memory Jar.

[EnialisLiadon]

Right now, I prefer Echoing Truth over Chain of Vapor.  Truth deals with Empty the Warrens and Bridge from Below tokens quite handily, as well as being excellent when faced against multiple Chalices, multiple Dryads, multiple...well, anything.

As for mass artifact bounce, I constantly switch from maindeck Hurkyl's Recall and Rebuild.  Recall is cheaper, but doesn't hit both sides.  However, Recall is better for DSC stalemates (though do those even happen much anymore?).  Rebuild also cycles in a pinch, which is decent sometimes.  I usually give the nod to Rebuild, but my experiences have been soured by a couple of games where I only had two mana, and not three.

[Petro_Nor]

Loocking to your list it seems very close to a TPS, and  I think that is better going for a list close to this one. For a 2 colours deck as you say the 5 color land aren't necessary so I will change them for 1flooded stran 2 islan and 1 swamp (wastelands...).
The fact or fiction they have told you that is not so good inlcuison better gifts or intuition ( Iprefer gifts, is card advantage). I will cut to the MD colossus and let to de side, or better a platinum angel. And MD rebuil and chain are necessary too, I don't agree with EinialisLiadon about echoining truth, you have to look for combo friends and chains alow you to do a big storm returning to yor hand your moxes). I will cut too de mox diamond (only useful with bargain active, when you can have more than 2 land cards in hand) and the mana vault that i have let playing a time ago, including 2 cabal rituals (for the gift pile: dark ritual, cabal ritual, black lotus and lotus petal is great ).
The disruptiong is a nother matter, i think that 10 disruption card is a lot and 6 pitch counters too, so I'll reduce it to 4 duress and 4 Fow.

[Tuba1060]

Thanks guys, continuing to tweak the list.  I tried some of your suggested changes, found the deck much better.  I found the Jar and Diamond were sitting in my hand uselessly too often, and was missing the MD Recalls I'd had at one point.

updated list:
Lands
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea   
1x Tolarian Academy
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Flooded Strand

Artifacts
1x Lotus Petal   
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet   
1x Mox Pearl   
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Vault   
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring   

Instants/Sorceries
4x Dark Ritual   
4x Brainstorm
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Timetwister   
1x Mystical Tutor
2x Merchant Scroll
1x Tinker
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will   
2x Tendrils of Agony
4x Duress
1x Time Walk
4x Force of Will   
2x Misdirection

Enchantments
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Necropotence   

Creatures
1x Darksteel Colossus


Also, what should i be putting together for a sideboard?   

[EnialisLiadon]

@Petro:  It should also be noted that Echoing Truth also deals with Chalice=1, which is just as debilitating (if not moreso) than Chalice=0.  I agree that Chain of Vapor is stronger in combo, but I find Echoing Truth to be more versatile in dealing with threats in today's metagame.

I would advise against cutting Jar--it's just too good.  To solve the sitting in your hand issue, I would second the suggestion of adding 1-2 Cabal Rituals.  No only are they extra mana (lots of extra mana if you can get threshold, which isn't difficult), but they also make you better able to play around Chalice=1.

[LordHomerCat]

Please don't cut chain.  If you want a second bounce spell, Hurkyl's or Rebuild are also very strong here, altho with the appearance of stuff like Aven Mindcensor, you might consider E Truth (or even rushing river).  However, if artifacts are your worry, run 1 Chain and 1 Hurkyl's main because E truth was never a strong bounce spell in combo, and unless you see a ton of creature and enchantment hate, it still isn't good here.  Chain is better pretty much 99% of the time, because who cares about like empty the warrens tokens when you can just cast tendrils.

[netherspirit]

Also, what should i be putting together for a sideboard?   

Hurkyl's Recall or Echoing Truth as they'll allow you to play around Chalice@1 much easier.

Leyline of the Void to help again Ichorid and Flash,
Massacre if you fear Fish decks,
Diabolic Edict if you fear Oath or Stax (both of which you should be able to outrace anyway),
and maybe some generally helpful cards such as Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt.

Just a few ideas there! I'm not much of a combo player really.

Welcome to TMD by the way.

netherspirit

[Aardshark]

Also welcome to the Norcal meta. I assume you were there Sunday and maybe Saturday? I was the guy playing mindtwist.  I didn't play against this deck, however, so I guess we weren't matched up.

Your deck looks solid, and will definitely win games.  You're essentially 2 cards off (2 extra merchant scrolls) from Scroll TPS (aka "The Meandeck") that was being touted by (newly crowned Vintage Champ) Steve Menendian time of the last round of B&R changes.  See http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=33446.0.  He included red for Red Elemental blasts and other tech, whcih is probably even more important now with a meta filled with GAT and Flash.  Steve wrote that this deck was outmoded by the June 1 B&R changes, but its taken a few top 8 slots (you can search for yourself in the tourney reports for "Scroll TPS" or "The Meandeck". 

Note that Steve chose FoF over Gifts, contrary to the advise of others in this thread.  I think that's because this deck's plan is to reach a critical mass of card advantage via scroll for Ancestral draw into (or tutor for) one of the many bombs (Yawg will, bargain, twister, tinker/Jar), and win on turn 3 or so.  FoF acts as an additional (or backup) late-game ancestral, without stripping your deck of quality cards and making you over-reliant on Yawg will.  I've never played this deck however, so I'm not 100% sure.

For your reference, here's Steve's sideboard (from his article):

2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Platinum Angel
1 Fire / Ice
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Massacre
1 Pyroclasm

Still looks pretty good to me. Lose the crypts for sure (they do nothing), maybe for Yixlid Jailors? Alternatively, you could play leyline of the voids (maybe drop a Red Elemental Blast and plat to make room for a full set)?

Sorry I didn't see this before the lotus tourney, but no worries--there's a T1 Series running in Sacramento, and an Alpha Mox tourney in Reno September 1 if you can make it.

I'm often at Eudo testing late Friday nights until closing, so maybe I'll catch you!

- Galen

[Tuba1060]

Hey Galen - we actually played on Saturday, round 1 IMS.  I'm the idiot who didn't Duress before playing Yawg Wins and walked right into your mana drain. 

I'll definitely check out the Sacro series (is it also 10 prox?) - not sure if I can make it to Reno then, we shall see. 


My post-tournament assessment is that (a) Crypt is indeed useless out of the board, although Infest (a last minute add since I couldn't get any Massacres) was an all-star, (b) I'd rather have had FoF over Gifts all weekend, and (c) I really need to find an answer for Stax, which was an auto-loss for me all weekend.  Of course, this could just be an unfixably bad matchup.   I'll take a look at the Menedian list and make some updates.

I draft every other Friday, but now that I know who to look for, I'll definitely find you when I'm there. 


Oh, for anyone who cares, I ended up going 1-3 on Saturday and 3-3 on Sunday.   Not great, but not completely embarrassing either. 

[Aardshark]

Hey Galen - we actually played on Saturday, round 1 IMS.  I'm the idiot who didn't Duress before playing Yawg Wins and walked right into your mana drain. 

I'll definitely check out the Sacro series (is it also 10 prox?) - not sure if I can make it to Reno then, we shall see. 


My post-tournament assessment is that (a) Crypt is indeed useless out of the board, although Infest (a last minute add since I couldn't get any Massacres) was an all-star, (b) I'd rather have had FoF over Gifts all weekend, and (c) I really need to find an answer for Stax, which was an auto-loss for me all weekend.  Of course, this could just be an unfixably bad matchup.   I'll take a look at the Menedian list and make some updates.

I draft every other Friday, but now that I know who to look for, I'll definitely find you when I'm there. 


Oh, for anyone who cares, I ended up going 1-3 on Saturday and 3-3 on Sunday.   Not great, but not completely embarrassing either. 

That was you? Awesome!

If I recall correctly, that was the turn after I yawg will'd myself, duressed you (leaving you with Yawg Will & Duress), and ultimately elected to forgo replaying mindtwist from the yard leaving you with 1 or 2 cards in favor of replaying some brainstorms and leaving drain mana open (completely forgetting you had duress to protect your yawg will).

A couple of pros we were! 

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I'd have to agree with keeping jar, currently a run an awkward ritual/gush type of combo list, it fits my play style, and I've won more games off Jar than even gifts, and gifts is probably the best card for assembling combo in the deck (if that makes sense with all of my raving about jar). What gives jar the edge (in the numbers category alone) is that it occasionally costs 3, and puts a mox into the yard, which is also a +.  Also, you can activate jar with draw spells on the stack, some times gifts just doesn't beat a 10 card jar with aid from recall. jar is less skill intensive than gifts, and because of that, isn't quite as good, but jars is still very good (so much so that I keep comparing it to gifts, if anyone's noticed).
I like you current list a lot, I'd recommend the bounce being rebuild and ET, as mentioned earlier. If you end up having to cut something, I'd recommend seal. Also, you can make one of your islands snow covered. It allows of one additional line of play off gifts. I know this is minor and will most of the time not be an issue, but its technically optimal, and I recently had lost a game for not being able to make a play due to a funny land name issue like that, I though I had taken care of it.