The Mountains Win Again

[zabuza]

What do you think about this version?
If it has ended in the 9th place means it´s a good one? Did the user have a lot of luck? Whaty do you think about it?
may a deck like this make a good tournament consistently?
thanks.

[Polynomial P]

Hey Dan, thanks for at least mentioning the TMWA style decks that have taken very different directions in your initial post. There have been a few questions regarding Man-Prison (RBW, or RW-magus) and I would like to say that these decks really arent being played right now because mana-denial is not a viable strategy in the metagame. The top deck, GAT, shrugs off mana denial because its draw engine is free, it rarely spends more than 2 mana on a spell, can break up its plays over several turns, often sidesteps waste effects, and runs fastbond. As long as the gush engine is powering the top deck in vintage, it is unlikely that Man-Prison will make a return.

One of the concerns that I have had with your most recent build of TMWA is that it looks like it is going to absolutely run out of gas on turn 3. I know you have had alot of success with it lately, but seriously, how do you do it??? (and i ask this with respect)

It looks like you might get a turn 1 or 2 early threat following an unmask or a duress. Are you generally able to just ride that to victory? You have 10 pitch spells, and absolutely no way to recoup card advantage, especially since Dark confidant is not a realistic option with an average CMC that is through the roof. How often do you find yourself in topdeck mode? How often do you win those games? I eagerly await your response.

[wiley]

I wpnder how well the ankhs did against decks other than gat.  It seems like it might be pillar against any non-storm deck.

I like that he had a way to fill his hand, even if it was browbeat.  Does anyone know how well these, the wheel and burnout worked for him?

[Myriad Games]

Zabuza & Wiley,
     I know that Lou's build was one of his own construction, and he seemed to do alright with it. I don't know exactly how his matches went, but I know from previous experience that you can frequently catch people unprepared with burnination and rack up game wins that way. I'm not convinced that Ankhs are good enough in this metagame.

Polynomial,
    Understandable skepticism at my recent results. I concur that most classical Waste and Strip based mana denial plans are subpar at present, but Moon effects have been very strong in my recent experience. They're potent against most every deck I've run into. Success with this version of the deck requires knowledge of what your opponent is playing and your ideal hand against that. It also requires a more intense examination of what mana you need when. You can keep hands with a single land and have them win easily in the right matchup. I do find that I get to topdeck mode before winning, but I don't find that frustrating as my opponents are usually searching for a particular spell at that point via draw spells or top decking. As long as I have more relevant threats / answers I can draw than they have answers / search, I'm in good shape. This style of play focuses more on having a plethora of excellent cards for each matchup rather than having silver bullets for each deck.

I encourage players to test their builds and post results here. This deck requires a play style that is somewhat unconventional but I find it straightforward once the optimal lines of play are determined for each matchup.

[Namingway]

Looks like I'll get the chance to play this deck in a tournament (my first in a long time) on Sunday. This is the version that I'll probably be playing (unless someone comes up with some last-minute tech)

3 Gathan Raiders
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Jagged Poppet
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

1 Black Lotus
2 Blood Moon
4 Duress
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Snuff Out
4 Unmask

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp

SB: 2 Cruel Edict
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Shattering Spree

Six Moon effects feels just about right. Also, I play Gorilla Shaman over Vandal now.
What do you think about the sideboard? The Engineered Explosives are somewhat questionable, but they are good vs. Fish, Flash and Ichorid. Anything you think I should replace them with? Pithing Needles are for Stax, Ichorid, Bomberman, and Control Slaver (which was actually played rather heavily around here a few months ago).

Anything I should keep in mind when playing the deck?

[Discozombie]

I think this will take over the flesh reaver slot for now.  it gives you the ability to pitch cards at will to get the poppet to full power and a 3/1 flyer for 2 is not bad.  plus it survives bloodfire dwarf

Oona's Prowler   B1
Creature - Faerie Rogue 
Flying
Discard a card: Oona's Prowler gets -2/-0 until end of turn. Any player may play this ability.
 #133/301 3/1



/NAME: TMWA
        4 Jagged Poppet
        4 Bloodfire Dwarf
        4 Magus of the Moon
        4 Oona'a Prowler
        4 Duress
        4 Unmask
        4 Leyline of the Void
        4 Snuff Out
        4 Pyrokinesis
        7 Swamp
        4 Badlands
        4 Bloodstained Mire
        2 Polluted Delta
        4 Simian Spirit Guide
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Black Lotus

I think this would be my set up for a random meta.  I think the prowler could be a great inclusion

[TopSecret]

I think the problem with Oona's Prowler is that it only beats for 3,
and that it's disadvantage (advantage?) is only truly overcome
when you have an active Poppet on the board,
at which point you should be winning.

It doesn't disrupt either, so I don't think it's beating abilities (3 or less)
are quite enough to justify it.
Your opponent has the option to discard extra lands if need be.

Pillars or Fleshreavers sound better to me.


I'm wondering what the RB legend is.
It's the only one that hasn't been spoiled.

[Discozombie]

I was the advocate for reaver and I was a former fleshreaver.dec player but I have to say that a 3/1 flyer for 2 mana is a deal.  It beats for one less than the reaver, but it evades and it doesn't fear chump blockers. 

In this deck it is even more usefull.  The ability to discard to get a poppet active cannot be overlooked since an active poppet is the house in this deck.  And it does act as disruption.  Since at its worst the card basically reads...

if prowler is attacking and unblocked your opponent my discard a card in hand to prevent 2 damageor discard 2 cards to prevent all damage delt by prowler.

My opponents can discard 2 cards from their hand to prevent damage from any creature I control if they want.  Free discard is awesome. 

Also with lorwyn having many ways to make lots of little 1/1's I don't think the reaver will be as viable.  The prowler plays well with the bloodfire dwarf who I personally believe really needs to stay in the main deck for now again due to lorwyn's abilites that make lots of little 1/1's and then abilities that make 1/1's useful, like the merfolk opposotion fit enchantment that lets you untapp all tapped merfolk at the end of your turn. 

And last but not least look at the creature type...

ROGUE FAERIE!!!

Is there anything else worse than rogue faerie beatdown, it sounds like an angry drag queen dressed like a pirate's serving wench.  And that is why we play rogue decks, because we have senses of humor!

Just try to say...

"I got beat down by a rogue faerie and a poppet..."

and keep a straight face.

[TopSecret]

Those are some good points.

This was spoiled on Starcitygames today:
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/14750.html

So, it looks like the RB legend won't be very awesome in this deck.

[Discozombie]

Top Secret: yeah the new RB legend sucks for vintage.  Unfortuantely the meta is too fast for something like that.  But it does look like goblins will be the house in standard.

[wiley]

So my tourney at raliegh nc last saturday didn't go too well for me.  However, it was largely due to serious play error.

My first match was against staxless stax (Mike M. who would later go to the top 8).  I won the die roll and proceeded to randomly forgo all knowledge testing before the tournament had gotten me by keeping the flashy hand of first turn magus instead of digging to a vandal (which is absolutely required to win the matchup).  Though I managed to lock him out with the magus for a long time he eventually pulled out a 7/10 and destroyed my only swamp (stranding the snuff out in my hand), brought me to two land, and eventually to 0 life.

game two I still had not remembered my nugget of knowledge and while I still put up a good fight he ended up steamrolling me.

The next match was against GAT (Dave Earling[sp?] aka Yare)  This match I lost whole heartedly since while I had answers the whole time, he had slightly more answers for those both games.

I then went up against a ported scepter chant deck (Chris T.) in which I managed to get the vandals in my opening grip plus first turn magus both games.  I won rather brutally.

Next up was the secong stax match of the tourney, and once again I tried out grip that didn't contain the little 1/1, and got the same results.  I could easily stall them out but never get rid of their base to prevent shinanigans.  I ended up dying to two platys when I couldn't find enough creature kill (this was after taking out two welders and a platy already).

A few notes on my card choices ...
Pyrostatic pillar was a serious champ all day, even against stax in game one they had to play carefully with their life total or risk an upset from the multitude of creature kill spells that would allow the hellbent poppet a chance to strike.
Greater Gargadons never really helped, there were many times when i wish they had been an instant speed creature kill spell, so they have come out for diabolic edicts.
Snuffout was awesome,  there were many times when the only way I could survive was to lose 4 life instead of 7 and was already tapped out.
Magus was never irrelevant, no matter the deck I was going against in the tourney or on the side he always screwed my opponent out of some color or another.

Also has anyone seen the new rumored discard spell? it says something to the effect of (remember that this isn't confirmed yet)
B
Sorcery
Target player reveals their hand, choose a non-land card from it.  That player discards that card.  You lose two life.

If this is true I would definately run it, now we would get to force out the dryads, togs, welders, salvagers etc.

how did your tourney go namingway?

[andrewpate]

That discard spell is unbelievable.  Where did you hear about it?  It's mentioned nowhere on any spoiler listing or rumor site I can find.  And even if a card with that effect does exist in Lorwyn (doubtful, given that it would step on the toes of the Coercion sprite), I will simply need mtg.com-level confirmation before I will believe it's only going to cost 1 mana.

[Namingway]

My tourney didn't go too well at all, really. But here's a brief report anyway:

I played the list I posted most recently, but I'll post it here as well:

The Mountains Win Again (unfortunately, they didn't)

3 Gathan Raiders
4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Jagged Poppet
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

1 Black Lotus
2 Blood Moon
4 Duress
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Snuff Out
4 Unmask

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp

SB: 2 Cruel Edict
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Shattering Spree

I also brought my friend who doesn’t usually play Vintage, but I lent him my Ichorid deck so he could participate too.

It was a rather small 5-proxy tourney with 15 players, so we played four rounds of Swiss and a Top 4. The store we played in had a really good third floor with lots of large windows and a bright atmosphere. After some talking, the tourney began.

Round 1 (this is the round I remember the most of) I played a guy named Alexander, who promptly scooped when I put a Leyline into play on turn 0 in game 1. As a result, I had no idea what deck he was playing (and he probably didn't have any idea what I played, either), but I guessed on him playing Ichorid.
Sideboard: +2 Engineered Explosives, +3 Pithing Needle; -1 Gathan Raiders, -4 Unmask

In game 2, my opening hand could produce a turn 1 Pithing Needle and a turn 2 Magus of the Moon, so I was rather happy to keep it vs. what I thought was Ichorid. Needless to say, I was quite surprised when Alexander took his turn and played turn one Underground Sea, Black Lotus, Buried Alive fetching Akroma and two other creatures I can't remember, and then Reanimate targeting the Akroma. Of course, she can't be targeted by neither Pyrokinesis nor Snuff Out, so this time, it was my turn to enter the scoop phase. I immediately took out the Engineered Explosives and brought back my Unmasks from the board (removing my other two Gathan Raiders), but I somehow failed to realize that I had two Cruel Edicts in there too, and as a result did not bring them in for game 3.

In game 3 I again got Leyline of the Void into play on turn one. I started with Bloodstained Mire fetching Badlands, and played a Pithing Needle naming Bazaar of Baghdad. On his turn, Alex played an Underground Sea and passed the turn. I had nothing to play on my second turn except a land, but on my end step, Alex played Vampiric Tutor. On his turn, he played another Sea. I spent my turn 3 playing a Jagged Poppet since I had no discard spell to take the card he tutored for, but even if I had, he probably would've played it in response since that's what he did on my end step: Chain of Vapor my Leyline. He took his turn 3, and played a Careful Study, discarding Akroma and another card, then Reanimated the angel of text, and the game was over since I had forgotten to bring in my Cruel Edicts.

Points: 0 (0-1, games: 1-2)

He later told me that he topdecked both the Careful Study he played and the Reanimate he drew off it. Oh well, it happens to everyone once in a while. A side effect of this round being over so quickly for me was that I had plenty of time to scout my opponents. The metagame for this tourney, aside from myself, consisted of 2 GAT, 2 Ichorid, 1 Workshop Aggro, 1 U/R Phid, 1 Reanimator (which I just lost to), 1 Flash, 1 Keeper (nostalgia!), 1 Doomsday, 1 Sullivan Solution-esque deck, and three other decks I didn't really see that much of.
As a result, I knew that my next opponent was playing GAT.

My round 2 opponent, then, was one of four people named Christian at the tourney. He seemed friendly and polite.
Game 1 I kept a decent hand with some threats, but throughout the game (which I can't remember that clearly) he always had an answer, and he eventually won on the back of a large Dryad. This time, I remembered to bring in my Cruel Edicts.
Sideboard: -2 Gathan Raiders, -4 Leyline of the Void; +2 Cruel Edict, +4 Red Elemental Blast

After Christian mulliganing to 6, we start. In game 2, I play a Duress on turn one, seeing Mox Emerald, Island, Merchant Scroll, Quirion Dryad, Brainstorm, and another card I can't remember. I take the Brainstorm, then Unmask him taking the Mox. As a result, he's stuck on an Island (no pun intended) while I play a Shaman and a Magus, and from there, I take it home pretty easily.

Game 3 begins by him playing a Dryad on turn 2, only to get it Snuffed Out. He plays draw-go for a couple of turns while I try to get a threat to stick, and finally resolve a Simian Spirit Guide, which then proceeds to bring his life total from 20 to 8, then ends up being bounced, and Force of Will'ed when I play it again. Good times for my Magus coming into play directly afterwards. The red wizard relieved my opponent of his last eight points of life.

Points: 3 (1-1, games: 3-3)

Round 3 saw me getting run over by a blue Workshop Aggro deck including Trinket Mage, Juggernaut, Su-Chi, and Sword of Fire and Ice, among other goodness. In game one, I made a crucial misplay on my third turn while my opponent had a Sphere of Resistance, a Sword of Fire and Ice, and a Mox in play. I was stuck on two lands, and had a Shaman and a Pyrokinesis in hand. I play the Shaman, and fail to realize that I had to pay one mana to play my Pyrokinesis targeting the creature I should have seen coming, since he had the Sword. He then played a Su-Chi and attached the Sword to it. Ironically, Su-Chi would have been an ideal Pyrokinesis target, since he had been forced to take 4 damage from mana burn in addition to losing his creature. But the Su-Chi stayed in play, and beat me down pretty soon afterward.
Sideboard: -4 Leyline of the Void; +4 Shattering Spree

The second game proceeded similarly to the first, as I saw no Shattering Sprees to remove his two Juggernauts and was forced to chump turn after turn while hoping for a topdeck Spree, which never came.

Points: 3 (1-2, games: 3-5)

I knew that I have no chance of making Top 4, but I decide to play the final round anyway, because this was the first tourney in which I played TMWA, and I wanted to try the deck out a bit more.

Round 4 I played another guy named Christian, who was also playing GAT. Game 1 was over pretty quick, as all my threats got countered or Duressed away, and my life total went straight from 20 to 0 in two Dryad beatings separated by a Time Walk.
Sideboard: +2 Cruel Edict, +4 Red Elemental Blast; -2 Gathan Raiders, -4 Leyline of the Void

In game 2 I Duressed and Unmasked away his hand and locked his mana base with a Magus, so he didn’t put up any real fight.

Game 3 was pretty much a repetition of game 1, as he had answers to all my threats and a finisher to boot.

Final Result: 3 points (1-3, games: 4-7)

Well, this was my first tourney playing the deck, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. I noticed that the Raiders didn’t do all that much, and I’ll probably replace them the next time I play the deck. Gorilla Shaman wasn’t all too active either.

My friend ended up making Top 4 with my Ichorid deck, and Doomsday and Flash split the final.

Props:
-   The store, for having an awesome third floor.
-   My opponents, for being nice people.
-   My friend, for driving 220 miles total to get us there and back.

Slops:
-   Me, for making mistakes that possibly cost me two games.
-   The weather, for being rainy and cold all day.

[rkmancer]

Thank you for a nice tourney report, I can ask some misplay when play TMWA can be happened to anyone
and it's a proof that this deck may come as some most difficult deck. .One wrong effort and it ends with a lost. .

I see 4 Gorilla Shaman in your list and since I'm not a big fans of them, can you tell me how they work to you
and how many time those MoxMonkey give you advantage. .There'll be some a vintage tourney in my local where
I'll take a part and decks such Stax, Staxless Stax, MUD, and MOdular Ravanger were predicted to dominate.
So it'll be really nice if I have some input for any best artifact destruction to complete my list.

I agree with your opinion about Gathan, I always think that 'hate decks' always need creatures who can do any
disturb ability. .I'd prefer Dark Confidant as draw engine. .Because though he has poor synergy with Poppet but it
reloads your hand after using any pitch spells. .

I don't know if this room is a rite place to write about possibility to build TMWA R-W-G version since a powerful man
prison named Gaddock Teeg comes home. .Since this topic speaks about R-B version, I'm really sorry if I misplace my
words. .
 

[wiley]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925995

That is where i found the card info, but like i said it int confirmed yet.

So it seems that we are having a problem resolving our threats and answers when going up against GAT and other heavy counter decks.  does anyone have a possible solution to this? (i wish there was a red equivalent for chill)

@rkmancer:  if your local metagame is flooded with high casting cost artifacts then goblin vandal would be the better choice over gorilla shaman.  And since a lot of places have a large amount of stax (which is nearly impossible to beat without easily repeatable artifact destruction) i have chosen to run the vandal.

A few strategies for playing tmwa against other decks

GAT - keep as much creature kill as you can!  while they only have 5-6 creatures you will be hard pressed to actually resolve a spell.  also keep as much targeted discard as you can, make sure you don't use more than you have to.  Knowing what is in your opponents hand is far more important than making them discard it all (remember they only have 5-6 actual threats in the deck).
 Leyline is still a good play even during games two and three because it shuts down the yawg will, which if resolved means an almost automatic win for them. 
if you can resolve more than one pyrostatic pillar then do it!  Force them to think as much as possible to keep them off their game plan!

flash(sliver)- keep any hand with multiple pathogenesis, kill spells and leylines.  these are the only thing that will save you from their super-luck-sack wins.

flash(dragon)-find the leylines and resolve them, more than one if possible.  do not take a hand without 0 turn leyline!

ichorid- read flash(dragon)

stax(and all variants)- do not keep a hand without a vandal and mana to support him.  if you can get more than one vandal out and protect them the game is 90% yours.
keep leylines in, i have yet to run across a stax list that doesnt pull welder tricks.

Bomberman- keep hand with leyines and creature kill.
Magus of the moon will help immensely in stalling but most likely will not outright win by himself.

[Namingway]

Gorilla Shaman didn't do much. I think I ate one Mox during the entire tournament. And since I didn't face much Stax, I'm not sure what to replace it with except Vandal. Are there any other good 1-drops?
rkmancer, I think you should play Goblin Vandal if you expect to face a lot of Stax.

It's a shame we can't really play Confidant because of all the high-cost cards. I've tried Graveborn Muse as a draw engine, but found that it was too expensive, and that whenever it hit play, I was already winning or losing, and it didn't make any difference. If it cost one mana less, it would be golden.

Maybe if that discard spell is for real, we can replace some of the high-cmc cards and start playing Confidant. I have my doubts about replacing Pyrokinesis, though...

[wiley]

there are only a few cards comparable to dark confidant
Phyrexian arena - an excellent enchantment, the only problem is having double black in your first three mana producers, otherwise it comes out too late to matter a mojority of the time.  Add to this that you want to playing your poppet or magus at the times you could cast this and it gets worse.
Necropotece- an even better enchantment, but if two black in the first three was hard then this is even more so with three black.  Once again you want to be casting off other three casting cost spells.
Muse- way to slow to matter, at four mana the game should be on a large tilt towards one player or the other, and this card will not make an impact on that.
Bargian- for this deck without huge mana ramp this guy comes out too late just like the muse.

not to mention that you would have to take something out of the build (or rework it all together) to fit these in.  I don't beleive they add more than they detract.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I've been working on a TMWA deck sorta seperate from this site.  I really didn't know about this place and therefore took a different direction for this deck.  I was directed here by someone at the latest SCP9 tournament in Indianapolis.  I went 3-3 in that tournament before dropping due to time.  I'm very excited to see others working on a red deck for Vintage.  I think it's great.  I'd really love some feedback on my version of a mono-red control deck.  I usually top 8 in my local tournaments (8-20 people), but I think I've hit a wall with it for now.  Any feedback on how to improve it would be greatly appreciated.

Creatures 
4   Atog   
2   Goblin Tinkerer   
4   Gorilla Shaman   
3   Magus of the Moon   
4   Simian Spirit Guide   

Spells 
3   Raze   
1   Wheel of Fortune   

Enchantments 
4   Pyrostatic Pillar   

Artifacts 
1   Black Lotus   
4   Black Vise   
1   Lotus Petal   
1   Mana Crypt   
1   Mox Emerald   
1   Mox Jet   
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Mox Sapphire   
2   Pithing Needle   
1   Sol Ring   
4   Sphere of Resistance   
1   Trinisphere   

Lands 
4   Great Furnace   
6   Mountain   
1   Strip Mine   
4   Wasteland   

Sideboard     (15 cards) 
2   Active Volcano   
1   Pyroblast   
4   Pyrokinesis   
1   Red Elemental Blast   
3   Ensnaring Bridge   
1   Pithing Needle   
3   Tormod's Crypt   

While at the tournament I beat GAT, Ichorid, and Viral Affinity.   I lost to GAT, Ichorid, and Phish.  I really like this deck, so I'm very open to feedback and criticism.  Thanks in advance!

Peace,

-Troy

[Sarah Angel]

That's cool that Phish was at the tournament! 

Seriously though, how has Goblin Tinkerer been working?  I can't see much advantage over Gorilla Shaman.  Probably the only major play that he'd be better at is killing a Platinum angel, and if you know you're facing that, you've got 4 pyrokineses in your SB.

On the advatageous side, he costs 1 less which is always extremely important in vintage and even more so since you run Sphere.

It dosent worry about summoning sickness.  So if you need to kill something right away, you can.

You can clear multiple moxes/lotus etc...per turn, not just one.  And obviously, Gorilla Shaman dosent die from killing artifacts with 2 casting cost or higher.

Basically, you're trying to run mana denial here, so you're not even worried about high casting cost spells that your opponent would play.  You want to nullify the moxes and stuff that would get your opponent out of the Moon lock.  Gorilla Shaman is your guy for sure.

[andrewpate]

He is already running 4xGorilla Shaman.

@Troy
Wheel of Fortune?  Really?  This doesn't seem like it can possibly be good against Gush-based decks, even if you do have 5xartifacts that give them trouble.  Please explain your thoughts, there.

In general, I'd like to know why you think board-based lock parts are better than discard and targeted removal.  For example, you don't even seem to have any maindeck answers to a single large Quirion Dryad aside from dumping your board into an Atog.  Has that plan worked for you?

I would really like some exposition on matchups as well as some card-specific info.  Your deck doesn't seem to have enough of the right kinds of disruption to justify its slower clock, and I'd like to know how you think it deals with that.

[AdamP]

Why do people play Cruel Edict over Diabolic Edict or even Chainer's? Unmisdirectionable?

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

In general, I'd like to know why you think board-based lock parts are better than discard and targeted removal.  For example, you don't even seem to have any maindeck answers to a single large Quirion Dryad aside from dumping your board into an Atog.  Has that plan worked for you?

I would really like some exposition on matchups as well as some card-specific info.

Sure, I’d be happy to.

Creatures

2(3)   Goblin Tinkerer    
4   Gorilla Shaman  

The day of the tournament I dropped the Wheel of Fortune for a third Goblin Tinkerer.  I wasn’t sure about the decision.  It didn’t hurt me that day, and your point about Gush decks is well taken.  Anyway, I anticipated Stax being more of a force at the tournament than it actually was.  Obviously the Shaman are Mox and Sol Ring eaters.  The Tinkerers I put in to blow up stuff like Crucible of Worlds and Platinum Angel.  Originally, I had 3 Goblin Vandals in the deck instead, but the fact that they had to attack and their ability prevented their damage made them less appealing to me.  Since Tinkerers can block a sliver and live, I decided to start them.  That, and they help me get around a Chalice of the Void set at 1.  I wanted 6-7 cards that could blow up artifacts in this deck, and these are the cards I chose to do it.

3   Magus of the Moon  

I only chose to play three Magus of the Moon for several reasons.  First, he’s a little expensive.  If I have trouble with getting mana sources in play, he’s a dead card.  Second, he isn’t all that strong against Stax (which I thought I’d see a lot more of than I did).  By playing three, I still got one nearly every game that I wanted them, but I also avoided getting two in my opening hand.  He’s a bomb in Vintage, and since Gush and Ichorid are taking over the meta, maybe increasing him to 4 would be a good idea.  I’m not sure  though.

4   Atog    

The Atog is my finisher.  He can ping away for one damage for several turns, then in one fell swoop I can sacrifice 5-6 artifacts and wipe out my opponent.  Or, I can just sac one artifact a turn, and wear him down bit by bit.  It depends on how much bounce I think he’s running.  Anyway, I held off an opponent from attacking with a 6/6 dryad in one game and a 5/6 Tarmogoyf in another just because I had an Atog in play with about 6 artifacts at my disposal.

4   Simian Spirit Guide

The key for this deck, at least the way I play it for now, is speed.  Lotus Petal was restricted for a reason, and the SSG gives me essentially 4 extra copies of it.  I don’t even have to cast it like the petal which neatly dodges the Pyrostatic Pillar and Sphere of Resistance.  Also, in a pinch, I’ve hard casted him (yes, even in Vintage) to block slivers or to add an aggro threat vs. another deck.  For me, he is an incredibly versatile card.

Spells  

3   Raze    
1   Wheel of Fortune  

Like I said, I took the Wheel of Fortune out for the tournament, and it looks like that was a good choice.  In addition to thinking about Stax, I was worried about my match ups with Ichorid and Oath.  Raze gave me a way of dealing with both.  Since I really only need one red mana backed up by artifact mana to run this deck, I can sacrifice off my lands to blow up my opponents’.  Bazaar of Bagdad, Forbidden Orchard, and the Dual Lands are the usual targets for this spell.  Against Ichorid, it really shuts them out.  Against GAT, it helps me deny them a particular color they need to either cast their Dryad or their Tutors.  Added with the Wastelands and Strip Mine, I have 8 main deck cards that can blow up a land if I need to.  And since it only costs one red mana, it’s still affordable with a Sphere of Resistance on the board.

Enchantments  

4   Pyrostatic Pillar

Since Gush and most decks rely a lot on cheap tutors and draw spells, I included Pyrostatic Pillar.  When it’s on the board, the GAT player has to wait for a bounce spell to go off.  If I get this out on the first turn, it makes playing Moxen very unattractive.  I consider this spell to be one of my major sources of damage.

Artifacts

4 Black Vise

This is another one of my major damage sources.  Against Ichorid, if I can blow up his Bazaar early, he’s going to be stuck with 6-7 cards in hand the rest of the game.  One or two Black Vises suck up his life really fast.  If I have Sphere of Resistance and/or Pyrostatic Pillar in play, it also hits opponents really hard since they have to hold their spells.  At 1 mana, this thing is easily castable first turn and a nice compliment to all my other damage sources.

2 Pithing Needle

This is here mainly for matchups against Ichorid and Bomberman.  Although, I have used it to shut down cards like Polluted Delta, Flooded Strand, and Psychatog.  I figured it would be decent vs. Goblin Welders as well, but like I said earlier, I didn’t play Stax once.  I did use it vs. Arcbound Ravager, though.

4   Sphere of Resistance    
1   Trinisphere


Vs. GAT, these cards really shut down their engine.  I thought about running Defense Grid as well to stop counterspells, but it was just overkill IMO.  Sphere of Resistance is easy to get out turn one.  With all my mana sources, I can afford to be patient.  GAT and Ichorid run much fewer mana sources, so it hurts them a lot more than me.  

1   Lotus Petal    
1   Mana Crypt    
1   Mox Emerald    
1   Mox Jet    
1   Mox Pearl    
1   Mox Ruby    
1   Mox Sapphire  
1   Sol Ring
1   Black Lotus  

The key to this deck, IMO, is speed.  But in this case, a particular kind of speed.  I want to get my permanents out before my opponent does.  Only three cards in this deck aren’t permanents, so if I get them in play, they are going to have a lasting effect on the game.  Lotus Petal and Black Lotus give me extra colored mana on the first turn.  The Moxen help me cast all my 1 or 2 mana cost artifacts on turn 1.  And the Sol Ring and Mana Crypt help me power out a Trinisphere or Magus of the Moon right off the bat.  Turn one is critical for this deck, and all the artifact mana really help me make the most of it.  If the artifact mana ever becomes too redundant or the Mana Crypt becomes a liability, I have my Atog to eat them and convert early speed into late damage.  They have nice really synergy together.

Lands

4   Great Furnace    
6   Mountain    
1   Strip Mine    
4   Wasteland  

I’m not sold on the Great Furnace yet.  Although I will say it is nice to have to sac to the Atog if I have him in play.  Counting them, I have a total of 24 artifacts in this deck.  That’s a lot of permanents I can convert into damage with my Atog.  I run 6 mountains.  Through experimenting, I’ve found that any less makes it hard to get a red producing land in my opening hand.  Even though I don’t need a lot of red, I still need some to make sure I can play everything right away.  The Strip and Wastes are just solid all around.  5 ways to blow up a dual land is nice.

Sideboard     (15 cards)
3   Ensnaring Bridge  
2   Active Volcano    
4   Pyrokinesis    
1   Red Elemental Blast    
1   Pyroblast  
1   Pithing Needle    
3   Tormod's Crypt  

My sideboard is eclectic, and probably needs some revision.  I have the Ensnaring Bridges in there vs. Oath and potentially GAT.  My hand usually stays between 3-5 cards, so they are a decent option in preventing big creatures from attacking.  The thing they don’t do is win me the game.  I have to count on my Vises and Pillars for that (or rushing my opponent with a weenie hoard) when this thing is in play.  I was probably more worried about Oath than I should have been.

Active Volcanoes are in for Gush matchups.  They can’t be Misdirected to one of my lands like a Raze can.  They just give me more ways to harass my opponent and make executing his strategy that much harder.

The Pyrokinesises are in there for Flash and Bomberman matchups.  Pyroclasm and Starstorm were too slow or too expensive, so I chose this.  Even with a Trinishpere or two Spheres of Resistance in play, it’s affordable.  Plus it dodges Pyrostatic Pillar which can be important in the late game.  

The red blasts are in there to disrupt Gush, Flash, and Bomberman.  I have one of each in case they are playing a Meddling Mage.  I should probably put more in.  Every time I casted one at the tournament, it swung the game.  They’re pretty strong.

The extra Pithing Needle is there for Ichorid and Bomberman.  I only own three, so that’s why I have 3 total in this deck.  I’m not sure a fourth would be necessary.

Tormod’s Crypt is there to respond to Yawg’s Will and Ichorid.  I only used it once in the Tournament, but it won me that game.  All my opponent’s Bridges from Bellow were dredged early, so I got them in one fell swoop.  I’m not convinced they’re the best answer, but they’re what I have for now.

As far as strategy for this deck goes, like I’ve said, turn 1 is critical.  I often have a selection of plays I could make.  The main idea is to lock the game up as soon as possible.  Trinisphere, Pyrostatic Pillar, Sphere of Resistance, and Magus of the Moon are all terrific turn 1 plays.  If I get one of these out on turn 1, I can afford to be patient with my deck.  The Spheres and Magus buy me a lot of time.  The Pillar can buy me life advantage- that way, at some point, I can play spells when my opponent is reluctant to do so.  In fact, the longer the game goes, the better and better my chances get to win.  Black Vise is also good turn 1 as it starts hitting my opponent early.   Having an advantage in the life totals is really important.  If a Gush player gets low in life, he can’t use his Fastbond nearly as much.  If Black Vise wears my opponent down, then a Pyrostatic Pillar can seal his fate- even though I might not kill him for another 2-3 turns.  

Having an Atog in play is very intimidating for my opponent since he never knows when it might go off.  He has to save his bounce for that creature.  So while he waits to return my Atog, I can cast Spheres, Vises, and Pillars without fear.  As for spot removal and disruption, I'm unsure.  My Spheres, Pillars, and Magus disrupt my opponent pretty well as is and prevent the dryad from becoming too big.  My multiple damage threats and creatures put my opponent on the defensive- so he has to block with his angels and dryads.  I'm very open to suggestions, though!

I like this deck being mono color because I never get mana screwed.  And since my lands can be sac’ed off to pump my Atog or destroy other lands in play, they’re never a dead draw for me.  Every card in this deck has synergy with other cards.  Now I just need to improve it so that my wins become more consistent.

I hope this helps explain the deck better.  Thanks for being willing to critique it.  I really appreciate that.

Peace,

-Troy

[Englishman_in_NH]

The cruel edicts are indeed because they cannot be misdirected. Imperial edict can also be used as it has the same effect.

They are mostly brought in against GAT and the instant vs sorcery speed is not normally an issue, especially with the extra kill cards that the deck runs that are instant speed: Pyrokinesis, Snuff Out and Contagion.

Hope that answers your question Adam P.

[rkmancer]

@Troy
   Since your list run just mono-red. have you give a try for Ancient Tomb to cast artifacts (spheres, or pithing and black vise in one shot) and Magus earlier?? maybe 2-3 of them will be fit in this deck. .

I'd test possibility to put 2 extirpates in main deck of R/B TMWA and I'd love its performances.  It force Gush player to stop their combos and so powerful to remove Dread Return too (in Ichorid deck).
In random situation, with so many removal (both artifact, creature, and hand), I think extirpate is worth enough to be added main. .

[rkmancer]

As Mr Wiley reports from previous reply in this topic, today I find some strong confirmation about this card. Check it out. .

Thoughtseize         

Sorcery   Rare
Target player reveals his or her hand. You choose a non-land card from it. That player discards that card.
You lose 2 life.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler publicity by mtgsalvation and give us strong reason enough that card will be printead for real. .
This card must be useful in so many deck in all format as one of the most powerful discard spell together with Duress
and Cabal's Therapy.  And I bet TMWA will be the one to go straight to contain it 

Not enough with one card, also spoiled this golden artifact for us 

Thorn of Amethyst   
Artifact   Rare
Noncreature spells cost  more to play.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, what do you all thinking about it, with so many potential cards from Lorwyn, I think we can make TMWA stronger, don't we?

[Namingway]

With Thoughtseize, I think I'll be trying out a version of the deck with cheaper mana costs and Dark Confidant.

A preliminary list:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Goblin Vandal
4 Jagged Poppet
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide

1 Black Lotus
1 Blood Moon
4 Duress
3 Extirpate
3 Lightning Axe
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
2 Pyroblast
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:
3 Cruel Edict
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Shattering Spree

What do you think about it?
Lightning Axe was the best mana-cheap removal I could come up with that didn't hurt you (e.g. Vendetta) or wasn't too conditional (e.g. Ghastly Demise). It actually seems surprisingly good in this deck, despite the fact that it isn't even played in TSP block decks. 5 damage for 1 mana is really nice, and you can afford the spare card a lot of the time, especially with Confidant. And this deck has been known to break otherwise unplayable cards before, right?
A revealed Pyrokinesis hurts a lot, but hey, lots of decks play both FoW and Confidant, so why not?
I have my doubts about Goblin Vandal, but it is very good vs. Stax/Workshop aggro, a matchup I experienced to be rather difficult during my latest tourney. Against other decks, it eats Moxen, just like Shaman. They might become something else, though.

I've considered Ankh of Mishra and Pyrostatic Pillar, but my main concern is that you hurt yourself too much with them in a deck already full of cheap spells and life loss. The other card rkmancer posted, Thorn of Amethyst, seems nice too, but this version is still playing lots of cheap noncreature spells. Paying an additional 1 for each of them seems to slow you down quite a bit.

[rkmancer]

Thorn of Amethyst is design for brother of this R/B version called R/W man-prison.
As a replacement or additional Sphere of Resistance, together with GlowRider the lock
pieces can be so tough.
Snuff Out still better than Lightning Axe for me since its free cost.

[Namingway]

Snuff Out still better than Lightning Axe for me since its free cost.

In non-Confidant TMWA, yes. But it costs 4 mana, which is a little too much in a deck with Confidant. Not to mention the fact that you pay 4 life to cast it most of the time. That hurts...

[LennonMarx]

Perhaps the Lightning Axe slot would be better filled with Lightning Bolt so that it an call the opponent in a pinch. If the main concern is killing ginormous dryads and/or togs, perhaps Cruel/Imperial Edict would be better in that slot, or maybe even Sudden Shock.

[wiley]

I am ecstatic to hear that the card thoughtseize is almost fully confirmed.  I believe that with the addition of such a powerhouse a cheaper cmc version of R/B TMWA is easily viable.

IIRC there was a red card from prophecy that allowed you to sacrifice a mountain to deal three as you choose.  I can't recal the casting cost right now though

As has been stated the thorn does not look particularly appealing for the R/B build but seems interesting for the R/W man-prison one.  Though I'm not sure which one is better (I do tend to think that black has the better disruption though).
My reasoning for this is the same reasoning that other people use for pyrostatic pillar, that it would hurt you as much as the opponent (which is true) and the crux then becomes who it will usually hurt more as long as you can still deal with it.  I don't believe that TMWA has enough of a mana base to support the spells if they all cost one more, while other decks do.


My only true question for a lower cmc build running dark confidant would be if we should try to include 1-2 tops + search cards or would these detract from the decks base of power too much?  I say this because many of the games I win are done because of the sheer amount of hate, and if I hadn't drawn into it I would have lost for sure.