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Author Topic: [Article] Balancing Vintage: the Banned/Restricted List  (Read 3901 times)
Yare
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« on: September 05, 2007, 10:59:23 pm »

Balancing Vintage: the Banned/Restricted List

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In the wake of the recently approved Banned/Restricted List discussion on TheManaDrain (a topic typically banned because it can become, well, unfriendly), I have been putting some thought into what sort of criteria should be used in making B/R decisions. While numerous criteria have been put forth in the past, I decided that I would try my own hand at this.

Although I mentioned it in the official B/R thread, I wanted to post this here to give the non-full members a chance to respond (and because I think the other one kind of got lost in the mix).  If this is somehow offensive to the powers that be, feel free to lock it.

One thing to note: this thread is absolutely not for discussion of what cards should be removed/added to the current B/R; it is instead an article about the philosophy of the B/R in generic terms.  Obviously, real world examples will apply here and there, but please don't turn this into a B/R discussion of the current list.  I will not hesitate to edit replies.  With that happy note out of the way, enjoy. Wink

Edit: This article was published prior to the latest B/R announcement, so I had no idea about the banning of Shahrazad at the time; obviously, that banning is therefore not considered at all in the article.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 02:36:56 pm by Yare » Logged
Smmenen
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 11:41:52 pm »

I've already put alot of thought into the topic you wrote about.  I'm not sure I agree with some of your categorizations... for reference:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/13755.html

The Values Behind Restriction

 No a priori logical argument for or against restriction can be made: like all law it is reducible to some value judgment. You cannot separate the value from the policy. The problem, for Vintage, is that the values are sometimes in tension. The decision to restrict or not restrict will depend upon which value triumphs.

On the one hand, the most apparent principle of Vintage is that you get to play with all of your cards. That’s what makes Vintage unique and why it has a restriction rather than a banning policy. This desire to be able to play all of your cards operates most forcefully against banning anything, but it also applies against restriction. Restriction is still, in some way, taking away cards that players can use. Sure, they can still play one, but we’d rather let them play four if at all possible.

On the other hand, there is a need to maintain competitive balance. In sports economics it is often decried that big money markets like NYC can literally buy teams and create a competitive imbalance. In Vintage, cards that are just too damned good can theoretically create decks that are too damned good. Thus, Gush is restricted. In this way, the policy of letting people play all of your cards is trumped by the need for competitive balance.

Yet, there are other values. Most often they are articulated in terms of “fun.” The value of having fun and maintaining fun is what drove the restriction of Trinisphere. Forsythe acknowledged that Trinisphere didn’t actually affect the metagame or distort the competitive balance, but that too many players felt it was too non-interactive.

The truth is that “fun” is the category into which all arguments for restriction exist. A competitive balance is important because it maintains a healthy diversity of deck options. It is not fun to be able to only play one deck. Similarly, it is more “fun” to be able to play with all of your cards. It sucks to have a card you own or enjoy banned.

The problem, then, is that all arguments for or against restriction are ultimately utilitarian: it is about maximizing the fun that everyone has. Vintage, more so than any other format, has a very high tolerance for brokenness. After all, you wouldn’t play Vintage with such egregious mistakes as Black Lotus and Yawgmoth’s Will unless you weren’t attracted to that aspect of the game.

Ultimately then, there is a certain futility in arguing about the restricted list because it comes down to value judgments – something that are subjective. Logical arguments cannot undermine the starting value premise. You can attack a restriction as illogical from a particular point of view or starting premise, but not if the decision was based on a different value (say fun instead of competitive balance). This is why logical arguments for or against restriction are really implausible: they devolve and are reducible to the subjective value judgments that motivate them. One man’s fun is another man’s boredom. And sometimes, the constituent and identifiable elements of “fun” – such as competitive balance (metagame diversity) and the desire to interact – come into conflict. The DCI then has the onerous duty of choosing which value should trump.

At certain times in Vintage history the player base seemed certainly content with the notion that we should restrict everything until Drain is the best deck. Oscar Tan seemed to propound that view (and certaintly Weissman) (there is an Oscar Tan article I’m thinking of but can’t find right now where he asks 12 major Vintage players their opinions on like 12 different cards – there is a table that shows where we all come out). However, the notion that we should restrict until we make Drain best is now seen as antiquated and actually quite pernicious. Mana Drain is an utterly broken card and its dominance is no more healthy than that of any other card.

Where once I was of a particular point of view on restriction, I remain agnostic as to whether a particular value should trump and when. It’s simply too subjective for me to judge. I can tell you when a deck or a card becomes dominant, but my view of fun is going to be different from any other persons view of fun. My bias has always been against arguments that restrict on grounds other than competitive balance and stopping single-deck dominance. The reason for that bias is that I felt that too many Vintage players reasoned from a love for Mana Drain decks rather than what was truly best for the format. I no longer have that bias because the old guard of people who just played Drain decks are gone. The best players in Vintage switch from Drains to Combo to Workshops with ease (see Tommy Kolowith, Andy Probasco, myself and many others).

Dominance and Monopoly Power

The most obvious and legitimate use of the restriction device arises is the case of a “dominant” or “best deck.” A useful way of thinking about this is the corollary to monopoly power. We use antitrust regulations and laws to ensure the fair competition of business in the marketplace. Similarly, we use the restriction policy to regulate the fair competition of decks in the Vintage metagame. When a deck becomes too dominant, we restrict a key component to restore competitive balance.

Monopoly power in Vintage would be the “best deck” theory of the metagame. We’ve all seen this in the past. Many times in magic history the DCI has restricted or banned cards in other formats to kill off a “best deck.” Thus, a slew of cards were banned in succession to stop Extended Trix. And even in cases in which there isn’t an unbeatable deck, a deck with essentially monopoly power may be so metagame warping that it in effect makes the metagame best deck versus the anti-best decks. Thus, Lin Sivvi was banned in Masques Block Constructed.

The last time we had anything resembling dominance in Vintage it was GroAtog composing about 40% of the market (i.e. the Vintage metagame) from Feb to June of 2003. A single deck making 40% of top 8s consistently across the board is pretty astounding metagame power in a format as large and diversified as Vintage. Gush was restricted to kill it.

As a practical matter, it is almost impossible for a “best deck” to emerge in the sense of really dominating the metagame. GroAtog was one of the most intuitive decks to play ever created and the best. That’s why it was so popular. It was easy to build and easy to play. And it only got up to about 40% of top8s and its restriction was supported by one of the broadest consensus ever seen in modern Vintage.

Original long.dec (arguably the best Vintage deck ever - don’t believe me? See this) was a miniscule part of the market when Burning Wish and Lion’s Eye Diamond were restricted. Even if neither card had been restricted, I think it unfathomable that Long.dec would ever have composed more than 15-20% of the Vintage metagame. And yet Burning Wish and LED were restricted.

But perhaps there has been a culture change in magic and in Vintage in particular. Compared to the early days there seems to be much less enthusiasm for restrictions and bannings and the last seven years of magic featured far fewer restrictions or bannings than the first seven by many orders of magnitude. Perhaps that is a sign of fewer mistakes, and I’m sure that it is, but I think there is also a sense that metagames are sufficiently dynamic that they should be given a chance to adjust first.

Antitrust laws were passed at the end of the Populist era and the Gilded Age in which incredible concentrations of wealth and power were drawing steel cartels and the like together. The government power was harnessed to break apart these great monopolies. In recent years, government regulators and antitrust prosecutors seem much more hesitant to deal a death blow to monopoly power. Threatened with being broken into two companies, Microsoft – the archetypical monopoly – was merely enjoined from pursuing certain practices and ordered to unbundle its software and browser technology. There is a sense among regulators and economists that our markets are far more dynamic than they were a century ago. Today’s monopolist might not be so successful a few years from now (see IBM).

There has been a similar shift in thinking in Magic. There is now a view that it is best for the market to let itself play out. In other words, let the markets adjust rather than exercise the antitrust power to level the playing field.

I sense that there were many times in the last couple of years where some of the major cards in Vintage were almost restricted. In 2004 I argued vigorously not to restrict Mishra’s Workshop. I felt that there was a public clamor and even a demand for it in the DCI itself (I could be wrong about that). No one seriously argues it should be restricted today.

It’s sort of like the tide of public opinion. It reaches a crescendo and a restriction either happens or it doesn’t. So far all of the recent crescendos for restriction have resulted in nothing and there doesn’t seem to be a strong demand for restricting anything. A few months ago there was some call to restrict Gifts, but that seems now, in retrospect, premature. The call to restrict Gifts may grow louder in time and eventually, it could be restricted. It’s hard to tell. I personally don’t think that restricting Gifts would do much since Merchant Scroll can find the single Gifts quite easily and players would probably just play 3 Thirst for Knowledge in the three opened slots. The metagame wouldn’t really change.

The dynamism of the Vintage metagame is so abundantly evident. In retrospect, the restriction of Gush – a clear case at the time, might not have been needed. Stax was just emerging as a threat when Gush was restricted. Moreover, Chalice of the Void and Trinsiphere were still 6 and 9 months from seeing print respectively. Both cards would have wreaked havoc on the small land mana base of GroAtog.

Similarly to the Lion’s Eye Diamond insanity of Long.dec, virtually no one in the metagame played the deck and it was banned just a month after Chalice of the Void had entered the format and three months before Trinisphere saw print. Long.dec wasn’t that popular to begin with – it may not have even been that prevalent as players were powering out Trinispheres on turn one.

Note that this isn’t to say that Lion’s Eye Diamond and Gush didn’t deserve restriction. In regards to Gush, if ever a clearer case for restriction has been made since *I’ve* been playing Vintage and writing about it (I’ve been playing it continuously since 2001), I cannot think of it. 40% market share of a single deck in top 8s for 4 months is certainly enough to warrant restriction if you are ever going to have a viable and workable (i.e. not theoretical) “dominance” criterion for restriction.

There is also a sense that interventions into markets and metagames, while well-intended, could produce unintended consequences.

Consider the restriction of Trinisphere. A statistical analysis I ran at the time demonstrated an actual decrease in competitive balance after the restriction of Trinsiphere, but in a counterintuitive way By taking Stax out of the picture, Mana Drain decks just dominated the month of April 2005. The first metagame shift was to Mana Drain dominance. Fish emerged as the Mana Drain foil. UW Fish was the Waterbury in late April. Then, oddly enough, Stax decks emerged and had their best performing year ever, including winning the Vintage Championship six months later.

The restriction of Trinisphere liberated Stax players to innovate rather than rely on the power of Trinisphere. We saw a profusion and proliferation of Stax variants.

However, the metagame did remain less diverse than before the restriction of Trinisphere. Pre-Trinsiphere, Vintage TPS was (according to Dr. Sylvan’s stats). Here were the Jan and Feb of 2005 breakdowns:

10 Trinistax (1,1,1,1,3,3,4,7,8,8)
10 TPS (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,5,8,8)
7 Mud / Welder Mud* (1,2,4,4,4,6,7)
7 Control Slaver (2,3,5,5,5,7,7)
7 Landstill (2,2,2,3,4,7,7)
7 Oath of Druids (3,3,5,5,6,6,6)
5 Dragon (2,4,7,7,8)
5 4C Control (3,4,4,7,8)
5 Fish (5,5,7,8,8)

That is EXTREMELY diverse. TPS is the only Dark Ritual deck on that list. Yet, after Trinisphere’s restriction, TPS disappeared entirely. It wasn’t until 6 months after Grim Tutor became legal that Dark Ritual decks clearly made up the upper tier of Vintage again.

What’s the point? The argument against restricting Trinisphere was that it would free Dark Ritual decks to dominate the metagame. Instead of making Dark Rituals dominant, the restriction of Trinisphere actually killed Dark Ritual. What actually happened was that Drain decks dominated for a little while and then Fish and Stax entered into a competitive equilibrium with the control decks.

This is just plays into the arguments of lassez-faire, free market economists (of which I’m definitely not, although I’m sympathetic to the better parts of their theory): restrictions (or market interventions) are not only unnecessary, but they produce negative, untinended consequences. Who the hell could have predicted that by restricting Trinisphere you’d kill TPS, not Stax!?

The reason why this happened was this: TPS was a deck built using Force of Wills, basic lands, fetchlands, and lots of Bounce that could survive the Trinisphere assault. It just played land and then Rebuilded and won the game. Restricting Trinisphere caused Mana Drain decks to flood the format and Fish decks became the best answer to Drains (this is why UW Fish won the April Waterbury after Trinisphere was restricted). Once the metagame adjusted and started making corrections, the three clear best decks were Drains, Fish, and newly constituted Stax – the constitution of this upper tier completely drove TPS (and Dark Rituals) from the metagame. Thus, in terms of diversity of archetypes, the metagame actually narrowed after the restriction of Trinisphere.

If Trinisphere were unrestricted today, it would have to contend with Ichorid decks that don’t need to play spells in order to win the game. They can just summon up Ichorids and the like by dredging off a Bazaar of Baghdad.

Vintage has sort of become this free market economists dream of self-regulating market dynamics. It’s self-regulating for many reasons. The first reason its self regulating is that the Vintage card pool is so deep that no deck could really remain dominant for very long. Not only would people begin to attack it as a strategy, but people would also master how to play against it. I would argue that Yawgmoth’s Will, as a strategy, is dominant in Vintage (and did argue that two weeks ago). The reason this isn’t dominance in the classic sense is that there is a proliferation of opinion as to how to implement it. We have half a dozen decks that different wildly in their implementation tactics and in there general reliance on Will.
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2007, 09:03:37 am »

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Vintage has sort of become this free market economists dream of self-regulating market dynamics.

I really like your post, but this analogy only makes sense in some respects.  The biggest difference being that magic in general is much more driven by a stochastic process than any real economy, and that a lot of the deck selection in T1 is motivated by player preference (most of which are not Spike-esque).  It's easier to have a fair market if people think fair is fun.

Relatedely one of my favorite parts was here:

Quote
The truth is that “fun” is the category into which all arguments for restriction exist. A competitive balance is important because it maintains a healthy diversity of deck options. It is not fun to be able to only play one deck. Similarly, it is more “fun” to be able to play with all of your cards. It sucks to have a card you own or enjoy banned

Which ties in with restriction decisions being based on the sum of a distribution of constituents who all have a different idea of what fun is.  Tension indeed, and a great explanation why it would be a terrible idea for the T1 community to take over B/R decisions (as was proposed during past hysteria).
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2007, 09:33:47 am »

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Vintage has sort of become this free market economists dream of self-regulating market dynamics.

I really like your post, but this analogy only makes sense in some respects.  The biggest difference being that magic in general is much more driven by a stochastic process than any real economy


Meaning what, exactly?

To read the rest of my thoughts on that issue, the link has the full article.   
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2007, 01:14:22 pm »

Well one generic thing about the B/R list is that some cards on it are in a state of 'all or nothing'. Take for example the recent unrestriction of gush. Prior to its removal from the list, you hardly saw people run even the single allowed copy.

I think an argument can be made for a few cards on the list based on their 'all or nothing status' and that some of those cards could be unrestricted and given a test period of 3-4 months (however long the period between new restrictions is ), similar to gush's current status.

An example of one such card is Earthcraft. It opens up a whole new deck or subset of decks that are not playable with only 1 copy of EC allowed. Unrestricting it would have a similar effect to the unrestriction of gush ; vintage players would have a new deck or decks to play with.

The possible power level of decks created by the unrestriction of a given card may be overwhelming and the card may need to be re-restricted again. One such example would be Yawgmoth's Will. Unrestricting that would obviously be a bad move and lead to all kinds of degenerate decks instantly.

Some cards are so powerful that even 1 copy might be too many  ( RE: Will), but some are only worthwhile in multiples. I'm of the opinion that some of those kinds of cards can be given a chance to shine again. Worst case scenario we have a few bad months of vintage, but more than likely what would happen is a new deck shows up on the radar and we'll have another viable option as far as decks go.
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2007, 02:46:03 pm »

Ok, Steve, from what I can tell, the first part of your post essentially states something to the effect that "yes, there are different values with respect to the B/R, but putting one ahead of the other is subjective, and therefore we're going to have arguments that probably can't be resolved, etc."  The second half seems to specifically be addressing what I've framed as "deck diversity".  If this is unfair, please let me know.

In my article, I'm trying to identify what the competing values are and then, given that, rank them if possible.  I must admit that in the original incarnation of my article I actually had something to effect of "By ranking X ahead of Y, I am saying I would sacrifice Y to get X" but upon further reflection, I decided that is not how I wanted to represent the ranking.  Instead, I would suggest that all of the values I've articulated have some value, but that the ones toward the top need to be given more weight than the lower values.  It's essentially a balancing test, with various weights assigned to each value.  This is subjective to some extent, but the more important values (having a game that is actually competitive) are more important than some of the less important values (timmy gets to play with all his cards, including Shahrazad).  A rules of a competitive game absolutely, unequivocally cannot be driven by the average player if the game is to truly remain competitive.

I have to argue that the B/R is not really about "fun" at its core.  As I tried to articulate (and possibly did so poorly) in my article, fairness, as measured by the ability of players to at least get a chance to show their ability, is more important than all other values.  I argue in from this perspective because a game that is played at the most competitive levels is played "at a corner solution" by the best players because they abuse the allowances that the rules give them to the fullest extent they possibly can.  The B/R is designed to keep too much abuse from destroying the competition.  If Magic become too luck driven, it isn't about fun or skill or anything anymore; it's just about luck.  I guess I fail to see how a game of skill can be about fun when the outcome is determined by luck.  Sure, people gamble on bingo, keno, roulette and such, but the whole point of those activities is that you play for the "thrill" of winning aainst the odds or whatever else you might value in that scenario.  Ultimately, the game needs to be kept away from the corners if possible.  THEN, given that, we can talk about other values (which I might or might not cite as fun) such as deck diversity, card availability, etc.

In that same vein, you mention in the second half that some of the cards in Long were restricted even though a small portion of the metagame was using the deck and winning with it.  The point I would make is that it's not that those players should not be allowed to use the decks because they are the only ones skilled enough to use it (or smart enough to use it).  Rather, the game ceases to be a game once a deck reaches a certain threshold of consistency and perfection.  The representation of that deck in the metagame, evidently, is irrelevant to the DCI.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is, if we are going to have a B/R list (which obviously we do), there MUST be a standard.  The DCI is obviously using one because the decisions are not made arbitrarily (contrary to what the masses might think).  So, to say that the values are all subjective is not especially helpful because ultimately there is only one B/R list and only one outcome.  I, instead, am advocating a policy that essentially weighs the issues in the way I've suggested.  I'm not saying it's perfect or that it is definitely the best idea; the idea of the article was more to flesh out what the values are rather than necessarily ranking them.  But, I think some standard is required.

@Silvernail: The "all or nothing" idea has been suggested before, and I must admit it did not cross my mind while I was writing this article.  Perhaps the DCI is testing Gush right now! Wink  In all seriousness, I think that the all or nothing idea unfortunately is driven by one of the other principles (either fairness or deck diversity) in that the card was restricted BECAUSE it violated one of those two principles.  Now that I think about it, Gush was probably unrestricted for this very reason, as you suggested.
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2007, 02:51:00 pm »

but once again, your standard devolves into fun.

fairness is a fundamental prerequisite to fun.   without some measure of fairness, the fun drains out of the game.

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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2007, 03:24:53 pm »

but once again, your standard devolves into fun.

fairness is a fundamental prerequisite to fun.   without some measure of fairness, the fun drains out of the game.

Ok, so what follows is what I originally thought. I was going to erase it, but I thought it was interesting enough to leave before I asked a more fundamental question, so pardon my going down two roads at once.

------

I think fairness is a fundamental prerequisite to competition and then, perhaps incidentally, to the fun of some players.  A game can be played in an unfair setting but the players still have fun; a player with an inferior deck because he has inferior monetary resources will still play and still possibly have fun, even if he loses to other players with more expensive decks.  This is unfair in terms of each player having the same access to cards, but players do it ALL the time and still have fun.  Players also play games where there is virtually no chance of winning, yet still play anyway because they derive some sort of pleasure out of "going through the motions" of the game rather than executing some brilliant strategy.

I guess I'm forced to ask "how do you define fun?"  The rules of a competitive game are interested in ensuring competition occurs, not that the participants necessarily have fun.  I'm guessing Michigan didn't have fun this past weekend, even though the game was fair.  (Actually the game was unfair in that Appalachian State was on the road, yet they still won).  So is the idea that the rules should be tailored to the fun of the best players then?

--------------

So, if I were to concede that fairness is a prerequisite to fun, why can't it be the highest value anyway?  Or are you not arguing with me on that point and I've completely got this sidetracked somehow?
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2007, 04:18:06 pm »

I guess I'm forced to ask "how do you define fun?"  The rules of a competitive game are interested in ensuring competition occurs, not that the participants necessarily have fun. 

Quote
So is the idea that the rules should be tailored to the fun of the best players then?

When player interactivity is diminished to the point where it is no longer fun for the competitive or casual player, then we have a severe problem on our hands. Yes, there are people who would like to see this game degenerate into mulligan wars or blackjack or whatever you'd like to call it when the game is reduced to a coin toss, but this is not how the game is meant to be played. This is an intelligent game whose allure hinges on its interpersonal element, and that element is held at ransom when decks like Flash, Ichorid, or Trinisphere.dec exist.

I've said it many times before that we need to be able to identify when "the acceptable level of brokenness" has been surpassed. When decks gets start killing you earlier than, and with greater consistency than Grim Long (which I believe to be sitting on the acceptable threshold of broken play), then we have a problem. Grim Long had the potential to kill you quickly, but it happened seldom enough that it was acceptable. Flash steps over that boundary and causes a problem, because it prevents the opponent from being in the game with unacceptable frequency (see Trinisphere).

Yes, we all love to win, but shouldn't this game be about outplaying your opponent, instead of out mulliganing them?

We always have these debates, but unfortunately, we never agree on what's fun, or what an acceptable power level is. Perhaps we should start there otherwise there's really no point in having this discussion.
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2007, 04:46:45 pm »

I can agree with that.  I think I may be trying to force a mincing of terms issue rather than an actual goal issue.
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2007, 12:18:03 pm »

re: steve's monopoly example:  there's a problem with this argument since A) economically there are acceptable monopolies, like the cable and phone companies, and B) the theories about how to enforce monopoly law have changed in the last 25 years so that the mere possession of monopoly power isn't enough to justify regulatory action.  Instead the government has to demonstrate that the monopolist in question is abusing said power.  The mere possession of large amounts of market power, like google, doesn't actually violate any laws, as long as you don't use it to hurt consumers too much or engage in predatory competition.  To apply this to magic, following this theory the DCI would probably have failed to restrict components of long.dec because it wasn't showing insane tournament results yet, and might never, because of the difficulty of playing the deck and the fact that many players just don't like playing storm combo.
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2007, 03:30:51 pm »

re: steve's monopoly example:  there's a problem with this argument since A) economically there are acceptable monopolies, like the cable and phone companies, and B) the theories about how to enforce monopoly law have changed in the last 25 years so that the mere possession of monopoly power isn't enough to justify regulatory action.  Instead the government has to demonstrate that the monopolist in question is abusing said power.  The mere possession of large amounts of market power, like google, doesn't actually violate any laws, as long as you don't use it to hurt consumers too much or engage in predatory competition.  To apply this to magic, following this theory the DCI would probably have failed to restrict components of long.dec because it wasn't showing insane tournament results yet, and might never, because of the difficulty of playing the deck and the fact that many players just don't like playing storm combo.

You assume that the change in philosophy re: monopoly is correct.  It's a consequence of the change in the composition of the Supreme Court.   Also, per se monopoly power inferences still apply in cases in which there is like 90% market share. 

Also, your example of cable and phone companies has no relevance in this context.   They are "acceptable" for very specific reasons that have to do with infrastructure, etc.   There are no such analogous instances in vintage.
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2007, 09:20:37 am »

One of the best policies about the B/R is reviewing the list to check which cards (that once were restricted) may be useful or playable again.  I think that most of the unrestrictions succeed in the way that:
a) They are used again, but the current metagame makes them less broken than before they were restricted.
b) There is no place for them in current decks: probably because the strategy they were used to is no longer competitive. Perhaps they will make their way into future decks due to future release of card X.
The 'problem' is that if card X makes the unrestricted one broken again. As it seems to have happened with Flash (but in this case even more broken).
What should be done in this situations?
- Restrict it again? And restrict card X (if necessary)?
- Test periods as silvernail proposed?
Of course this is not a common situation, but it can happen again.
 
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« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2007, 09:07:51 am »

One of the best policies about the B/R is reviewing the list to check which cards (that once were restricted) may be useful or playable again.  I think that most of the unrestrictions succeed in the way that:
a) They are used again, but the current metagame makes them less broken than before they were restricted.
b) There is no place for them in current decks: probably because the strategy they were used to is no longer competitive. Perhaps they will make their way into future decks due to future release of card X.
The 'problem' is that if card X makes the unrestricted one broken again. As it seems to have happened with Flash (but in this case even more broken).
What should be done in this situations?
- Restrict it again? And restrict card X (if necessary)?
- Test periods as silvernail proposed?
Of course this is not a common situation, but it can happen again.
 

flash was never restricted.  it recieved power level eratta a while ago that was removed resulting in a "new" use.
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agesga
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2007, 05:34:36 am »


flash was never restricted.  it recieved power level eratta a while ago that was removed resulting in a "new" use.

Ok, as i was out of magic during many years I always thougth that flash wash restricted due to its power.
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Throw the rules through the window
and you might go behind them.
(-or something similar- Max Payne.)
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