Proxy Etiquette question

[TestDrive]

I have two questions about what would widely be considered acceptable proxies in tournaments such as Vintage (Type 1) Ten-Proxy tournaments:

1. Are gold-bordered cards (such as from the old World Championship pre-constructed decks) allowed as proxies in tournaments? I have in mind such cards inserted in opaque-backed sleeves so that they still have the same exact size, weight, and feel as other sanctioned Magic cards, just that all you see when you look at the card face is a gold border rather than the regular black or white border.

2. How about the gold-bordered "blank" cards that were provided with the original 1996 Pro Tour New York memorial set (and maybe other sets) as a means to tweak the pros' decks. I'm thinking of just drawing a picture in the blank and labelling it. This way, there's no art or text from a junk card getting in the way of my proxy's clarity as to what it is. Hence, what I intend the card to be as a proxy comes across loud and clear. These cards are also the same exact size, weight, and flexibility as regular Magic cards.

Just a point to ponder for any naysayers: Wouldn't these gold-bordered cards be more trustworthy as proxies than an Alpha card as a "real" card, since Alphas, which ARE legal, have a different size and weight and therefore, potentially, can be spotted on the top of a deck with a trained eye. For example, "Oooh! I see that the next card sleeve on the top of my deck has a slightly less rounded wear pattern in the corners. It must be the only Alpha card in my deck--my Alpha Time Walk. Therefore I'm going to plan my current turn in accordance with that secret, unfair knowledge!" Do you see what I'm getting at? Legal Alphas are way more dangerous than a gold-bordered, clearly-labelled proxy, so long as opaque sleeves are used. So shouldn't gold-bordered proxies be legal if they're not already? And maybe they are, I'm just asking because I honestly don't know.

So, what are the answers to the two questions above according to current proxy tournament etiquette, rules, etc.

Thank you so much for your help!

TestDrive

[Zherbus]

The general rule of thumb is that:

1) You can't tell it's a proxy by feel if it's different from the other cards in your deck.

2) It clearly is and does what it is. Lightly penciling in "Mox Ruby" on a basic land usually doesn't fly.

That said, all TO's have different expectations. Many are adopting SCG's standards, which you can find right on their Vintage tournament announcements. I've never heard of stuff like World Champ/Pro Tour cards being illegal as proxies. Same with Collector Edition P9.

[TestDrive]

Thank you! What's the link for the SCG tournament info?

TestDrive

[Zherbus]

http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=302768

[Purple Hat]

CE cards usually aren't allowed because they're square and on different card stock so even if you round the corners off perfectly you can tell they're proxies.

[matt_v]

That said, all TO's have different expectations. Many are adopting SCG's standards, which you can find right on their Vintage tournament announcements. I've never heard of stuff like World Champ/Pro Tour cards being illegal as proxies. Same with Collector Edition P9.

We do not allow either of those for proxies at the SCG P9 Series.

-Matt

[TestDrive]

We do not allow either of those for proxies at the SCG P9 Series.

-Matt

Thank you for the clarification.

Just wondering...Why are non-regular issue card backs not allowed in an opaque backed sleeve (i.e., undetectable), while cards that have been slightly altered in their thickness through thorough erasing, according to the suggestions for proxy creation on your website, are allowed? I would think that those would be more detectable during a game than what you don't allow. Can you clarify your reasons for this? Of course, it's your SCGP9 tournament rules to do with as you please. I'm just curious as to the reasons.

TestDrive

[matt_v]

We do not allow either of those for proxies at the SCG P9 Series.

-Matt

Thank you for the clarification.

Just wondering...Why are non-regular issue card backs not allowed in an opaque backed sleeve (i.e., undetectable), while cards that have been slightly altered in their thickness through thorough erasing, according to the suggestions for proxy creation on your website, are allowed? I would think that those would be more detectable during a game than what you don't allow. Can you clarify your reasons for this? Of course, it's your SCGP9 tournament rules to do with as you please. I'm just curious as to the reasons.

TestDrive

There are some sleeves that are listed as opaque and are really semi opaque and can be seen through. In addition to this, we want proxies clearly identifiable as proxies, so that judges can easily tell how many a player has when doing a deck check.

-Matt

[TestDrive]

Awesome! Those sound like great reasons! Thanks for the explanation!

There are some sleeves that are listed as opaque and are really semi opaque and can be seen through. In addition to this, we want proxies clearly identifiable as proxies, so that judges can easily tell how many a player has when doing a deck check.

-Matt