Painful Land

[zimagic]

I'll start with the card, part of a cycle:

Overabundant Forest
Land
~this~ comes into play tapped with one pain counter on it.
 , add  to your mana pool, add a pain counter to ~this~
Pay  life where  is the number of pain counters on ~this~: untap ~this~.

In keeping with the "better than a basic land" deal, it has to come into play tapped. I'm using the "comes into play with one counter" to stop being too abusive.

You can play it in a turn as a simple source of  or it can be used in the same turn as a mana ramp in steps,  ,  pay 2 life  , pay 3 life  , pay 4 life  etc. You can also use it the turn it comes into play by paying the initial 1 life investment.

Two questions:
Does it need the first counter? (Not having it would be  , pay 1 life  , pay 2 life  , pay 3 life
  for a total of 7 life for  )

If it were part of a cycle, should "pay  life" be the cost for all incarnations or should another costs be used?

Edited Version:
Overabundant Forest
Land
~this~ comes into play tapped with one pain counter on it.
 , add  to your mana pool, add a pain counter to ~this~
Pay  life where  is the number of pain counters on ~this~: untap ~this~.

[Anusien]

I'm uncomfortable with so easily trading life for mana.  It seems like it will only ever be used unfairly.  It is an interesting card in certain matchups, but the fair use is overshadowed by turn 1 this, turn 2 make 5 mana for free.

[andrewpate]

Note that it comes into play with a counter, so for 1 life you can untap it right away.  This allows you to make GGGGG on the first turn if you're willing to go to 5.  From there, you could Channel the Suns-->any 2 Rituals (one of which is Seething Song OR both of which are Rite of Flame, either one)-->Dragonstorm.  And for a mere 3 life, it's practically Mox Emerald.

Also in Extended, I could make an aggro deck with Riftstone Portal and Demonfire in addition to normal beatdown elements.  Sometime around turn 4, you're at say 15, you let Mongrel through, I have 4 cards in hand, pitch 3 (including a Portal) to Mongrel to drop you to 10, and then second main cast a hellbent Demonfire for 3 lands+8 life spent untapping this = you're dead.

There is NO WAY this is okay.

[Liam-K]

How about this:

Overabundant Forest
Land
~this~ comes into play tapped
: add G to your mana pool
pay 3(?) life: untap ~this~.  Play this ability only once each turn.

[The Atog Lord]

This card does not even function as you might have hoped. I can play this on my first turn and pay the "cost" ten times without passing priority. The ten untaps have been paid for and then stack, and I have paid only ten life. So, the first time that this is used, it is an uncounterable Channel which gives you green mana instead of colorless. Even if this issue is somehow fixed, the entire mechanic is probably too good.

[zimagic]

This card does not even function as you might have hoped. I can play this on my first turn and pay the "cost" ten times without passing priority. The ten untaps have been paid for and then stack, and I have paid only ten life. So, the first time that this is used, it is an uncounterable Channel which gives you green mana instead of colorless. Even if this issue is somehow fixed, the entire mechanic is probably too good.

To fix the pain issue, would it have to read:
"Add a pain counter to this, pay  life....."?

I'm getting the general imperssion that it's too good. What about Liam-K's suggestion of a flat 3 life for a once per turn activation?

[Titanium Dragon]

This card does not even function as you might have hoped. I can play this on my first turn and pay the "cost" ten times without passing priority. The ten untaps have been paid for and then stack, and I have paid only ten life. So, the first time that this is used, it is an uncounterable Channel which gives you green mana instead of colorless. Even if this issue is somehow fixed, the entire mechanic is probably too good.

To fix the pain issue, would it have to read:
"Add a pain counter to this, pay  life....."?

I'm getting the general imperssion that it's too good. What about Liam-K's suggestion of a flat 3 life for a once per turn activation?

Would you play

Super Mox Emerald
0
Artifact
T, pay 3 life: Add G to your mana pool.
When Super Mox Emerald comes into play, draw a card.

I know I would, and that's basically what this is; a single card that acts as a land + Mox Emerald.

[The Atog Lord]

I'm pretty sure that Channel Land is going to be too good. Recall that Ancient Tomb has seen plenty of play, charging two life for two colorless mana. This seems better than that card, and Ancient Tomb is pushing the limits of how good a land can be.

[treezzzzz]

This card does not even function as you might have hoped. I can play this on my first turn and pay the "cost" ten times without passing priority. The ten untaps have been paid for and then stack, and I have paid only ten life. So, the first time that this is used, it is an uncounterable Channel which gives you green mana instead of colorless. Even if this issue is somehow fixed, the entire mechanic is probably too good.

you could fix by making either of the abilities say "play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery"

[zeus-online]

You may only play this ability once per turn and only as a sorcery?

That way it's probably fine, although still quite good.

/Zeus

[Anusien]

Why not just simplify it?

2 Mana Land Cycle
Land
This comes into play tapped.
T: Add CC to your mana pool and put two Ouch counters on it.  Lose life equal to the number of Ouch counters on ~this~

You're jumping through tons of hoops trying to make a fair 2-mana colored land.  If you don't want to go the CIPT, 2 counters, tap for CC route, this might work.

[zimagic]

Why not just simplify it?

2 Mana Land Cycle
Land
This comes into play tapped.
T: Add CC to your mana pool and put two Ouch counters on it.  Lose life equal to the number of Ouch counters on ~this~

You're jumping through tons of hoops trying to make a fair 2-mana colored land.  If you don't want to go the CIPT, 2 counters, tap for CC route, this might work.

So your first usage you get CC and only after start paying? A lot more balanced and definitely strong enough to drop turn 1 for a painless CCX turn two spell.

I've thought about this a lot and I don't think my initial idea of an untapable land is a runner without a serious rethink. Liam-K's version allows a limited untap, doesn't  scale the cost but is initially expensive. Anusian's version Accellerates early but gets more much painful in the long run.

I think we'll leave it with a choice between Liam-K's submission below and Anusian's above. Thanks a lot for the input guys.

Overabundant Forest
Land
~this~ comes into play tapped
: add G to your mana pool
pay 3(?) life: untap ~this~.  Play this ability only once each turn.

[Anusien]

So your first usage you get CC and only after start paying? A lot more balanced and definitely strong enough to drop turn 1 for a painless CCX turn two spell.

No.  On the first usage it costs 2, then 4 and 6 and 8 (then you're dead).

[andrewpate]

Saprazzan Skerry saw PT-level Constructed play, but it was never problematic.  I think that Anusien's version compares favorably with that, as it has a big drawback while it does the same thing, and to get it to do more you have to pay a pretty steep life price on top of that.

[Venven]

I think the  problem with mana acceleration of this type is that you're enabling combo decks, primarily, while helping opposing aggro decks achieve their primary goal, but not aiding control decks in stabilizing. The rule about resource exchanging could be generalized for all deck match ups, but that's a sliding scale in reality, so things get bogged down real quick. I'll stop typing before I get excessively pedantic...