TheManaDrain.com
September 22, 2025, 04:46:44 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [Spoiled Deck] Worker/Staff/Rings idea  (Read 4150 times)
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« on: September 19, 2007, 02:24:54 pm »

When I started playing T1 competatively... it was right around mirodin - and Worker/Staff was my deck of choice (that and T1 affinity).  For years that deck has been shelved away in some folder deep in the bowels of my MWS folder.  I have recently re-considered it when I read the following card on the Spoiler for the new set:

Rings of the Brighthearth  {3}
Artifact
Whenever you play an activated ability, if it isn't a mana ability, you may pay {2}. If you do, you may copy that ability. You may choose new targets for that copy.


How does this effect Worker/staff?  Well in a few ways - firstly, it lets you combo out with only 2 artifacts in hand (with a kick-off 1 mana).  How?
-Tap worker for {4} + the {1} extra mana. 
-Activate staff's 3rd ability to untap woker.
-Rings trigger, use the other {2} in your pool to copy the untap targeting the Metal worker again.
-Let the copy resolve, and then tap worker in response to the original untap your pool is now {4}
-Worker untaps again and now spend {1} to untap staff, and you are where you started with +2 mana.  (so tap worker to go to {6}, then you can cycle this to have 6 mana yield 8 mana... every itteration goes up 2 mana).

How else can this card go infite?

>> Basault Monolith + {2} in the pool
-Tap monolith for {3} plus the {2} = {5}
-activate the untap, and copy it (5 mana).
-now you have 2 untaps on the stack, so tap monolith twice for {6}.
-with your 6 mana you can untap it twice for 5.  So 5 mana => 6 mana infinitely.
* note that grim monolith doesn't work here.  Because the 4+2=6 ...

>> Timevault + (an untap) + 2 mana.
-In the untap step, skip a turn and untap vault.
-At any point this turn, tap vault and copy for 2 mana. 
-- So now the game tells you "take an extra turn, take an extra turn, but Skip your next turn."  So you start to your first extra turn, but that turn gets skipped - but fortunetly you then go to your second extra turn.  In this extra turn again untap vault and repeat for infinite turns.

*note that you can not skip your turn any time you want anymore.  So most likely you'll have to pass the turn to go infinite next turn after you play vault.  Unless you have something like Voltaic Key.

>> Deserted Temple + 4 mana land (tolarian)= infinite mana. 
-Tap tolarian for 4 mana
-Activate Deserted temple targeting Tolarian.  Copy the ability for 2 mana, and target Deserted temple (total 3 mana).
-Both lands untap and you have 1 in the pool.  repeat for infinite.

>> Worker (with 2 artifacts in hand) + Key.
- Tap worker for {4} mana.
- Activate Key, and copy it targeting Worker and Key leaving {1} in the pool.
- Repeat

>> Voltaic Key + Candelabra + 2 city of Traitors (or Tolarian @ 2)

- Play City of Traitors from hand, with one in play.  With the Frist city's sac triger on the stack...
- Tap both cities for {4}
- Tap Candelabra: X=2 + copy = {0} in pool ; untap both cities twice.  putting {8} in the pool.
- Activate Key and copy it targeting candelabra and key,  Leaving {5} in the pool.
- You can continue this arbitrarily high - but remember that the Sac City of Traitors is still on the stack.  Don't worry about floating ludicris amounts of mana though.  So float 1,000,000 mana then sac your city.  If they counter your staff from hand you can use the same loop with X on candelabra = 1 to "unload" your mana.


So this Combo is probably better than deserted temple, even though it requires  more peices.  It's better because each peice is useful on it's own... where deserted temple is fairly terrible unless you have a Tolarian in play.  The same could probably be said about Candelabra and Key, but at least those cards are artifacts for metalworker to work with.  Also Key alows the Timevault combo to go off as soon as vault resolves.
Also this combo can mini-work with something like Ancient Tomb.  It becomes rather channel-esq though because you end up paying through the nose for each Tomb untap.  But it may give you the mana needed to ramp up to something bigger.

List Proposal:

lands/free mana
4 Workshops
4 City of Traitors
4 Anceint Tombs
1 Tolarian Acad
2 Urbrog's Tomb
1 Vault of Wispers / Academy Ruins
5 Mox
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
-23--
Non-free Mana
4 Metal Workers
3 Candelabra
3 Basalt Monolith
1 Sol Ring
-11:34--
4 Staff of Domination
2 Timevault
1 Goblin Cannon
1 Platinum Angel
-8:42--
4 Rings of the Brighthearth
3 Voltaic Key
3 DT, Vamp, Will
3 Planar Portal
1 Memory Jar
-14:56--
3 Sphere of Resisance / Defense Grid
1 Tinisphere
-7:60--

Advantages:
1)  It's a combo deck that (outside of will) doesn't care about the GY at all. 
2)  It is not as much of a lynch-pin deck as MUD worker/staff was.  It can combo out with many combinations of cards.  It doesn't need metal worker to get infinite mana -and- off infinite mana you can win with: Goblin Cannon, Staff, Jar, or Planar Portal(for staff). 3) It has some really simple and powerful "god" hands.  Outside of Shop+Metalworker+Staff hands, you have stuff like:
 Tomb/city
 Shop -or- Sol ring + any land/mox -or- Mox x3 -or- Mox+crypt -or- Tolarian
 Timevault
 Rings
 + any 1-3 cards (depending on mana combo)

 That's a turn 2 infinite turns!  If you add Key+lotus/crypt to that it's turn ONE infinite turns.  Add trinisphere and its turn 3 infinite turns - but where they can't play or counter antything.

Note on Academy Ruins.  This can be nice for not decking yourself.  Let's say Plats get's Swords.  You can use Acad to recur your Goblin Cannon.  Let's say that's RFGed as well - but you have inifite life, and Vault for infinite turns.  Even if your oppoent has three 4/4 blockers.  You can still win with Acad, even if you have 0 cards in your deck. 
- For 4 turns: Upkeep return A metal worker from GY to deck.  Draw him and play him. 
- Turn 5: durring your upkeep pop lotus to return lotus.  Draw it for turn and play it.  Attack with 4 Metal workers, and 3 will die and 1 will connect for 1 damage. 
- Repeat infinitely.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 02:33:59 pm by Harlequin » Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
Mr. Anderson
Basic User
**
Posts: 156



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2007, 03:25:19 pm »

I like the rings, but I don't think that they work well just throwing them into this style of deck.  The deck seems to become less focused, which isn't good for a combo deck.  Playing the Rings only to use it to untap the Worker with the Staff is inefficient, when as an artifact in your hand it would provide you with enough mana to go off with the staff alone and you wouldn't have to risk having it countered or reducing the ammount of artifacts in your hand.

I've played Mishra Staff since it has been legal, I played it at Gencon, in the last Vintage event.  The deck I played is here http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=34001.0 and http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=87220


A deck designed to use it with Time Vault combo with the rings is an idea I am looking into.
Logged

I hate when combos I come up with get the axe.
RIP Flash
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2007, 03:38:21 pm »

I'm not really advocating running Rings -because- you put it into play and go off with 1 less artifact - I realize that makes no sense.  But think of it this way: the rings are useful in as well as in your hand - so no damage is done by casting it. 

I think the power is that the above list can with without rings, it can win without worker, it can even win without staff! So it has a good amount of wiggle room that a Rings based combo deck, or a Staff based combo deck does not.   You can win with a couple lands/mox, Monolith, Rings, and Planar Portal... or Worker, Key, Rings, Goblin cannon.  Or just Rings, Vault, Key.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2007, 03:43:41 pm by Harlequin » Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
rkmancer
Basic User
**
Posts: 102


all_moonsteak
View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2007, 11:42:18 pm »

I played MUD once upon a time and find nothing to do when there's Null ROd. .
I found this deck will receive some treat too unless you have your own way
that I don't realize. .

*I can't understand relation between infinity mana and goblin canon, can u explain to me??
Thx a lot. .
Logged

Mr. Anderson
Basic User
**
Posts: 156



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2007, 11:27:34 am »

*I can't understand relation between infinity mana and goblin canon, can u explain to me??
Thx a lot. .

I'll activate Goblin Cannon, I'll respond by activating Goblin Cannon, I'll respond by activating Goblin Cannon, I'll respond by activating Goblin Cannon, I'll respond by activating Goblin Cannon, I'll respond by activating Goblin Cannon...

repeat 1,000,000 times

...I'll respond by activating Goblin Cannon, and now I will pass priority.

Resolve last activation first:  You take 1 and I sacrifice the Goblin Cannon. 

Resolve the next activation:  You take 1 damage, Goblin Cannon is not in play for me to sacrifice.


See sacrificing the Cannon is part of the ability resolving, not the cost of activating it.
Logged

I hate when combos I come up with get the axe.
RIP Flash
BigBarn
Basic User
**
Posts: 48


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2007, 08:06:35 am »

Isn't the spoiled Thousand-Year Elixir much better with Metalworker?  You can drop the Elixir turn 1 off a Workshop, and now not only does Metalworker have haste, but you'll get an untap with him too.

Thousand-Year Elixir -  {3}
Artifact (Rare)
You may play activated abilities of creatures you control as though those creatures had haste.
{1}{Tap}: Untap target creature.

Logged
Purple Hat
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1100



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2007, 08:59:21 am »

Isn't the spoiled Thousand-Year Elixir much better with Metalworker?  You can drop the Elixir turn 1 off a Workshop, and now not only does Metalworker have haste, but you'll get an untap with him too.

Thousand-Year Elixir -  {3}
Artifact (Rare)
You may play activated abilities of creatures you control as though those creatures had haste.
{1}{Tap}: Untap target creature.



if you're comparing ththe elixir to staff then it can't untap itself, gain you infinite life, tap a dryad/tog, and let you draw your deck....so I'm going with no
Logged

"it's brainstorm...how can you not play brainstorm?  You've cast that card right?  and it resolved?" -Pat Chapin

Just moved - Looking for players/groups in North Jersey to sling some cardboard.
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 09:58:25 am »

Latest Deck after some testing:

4 Workshops
3 City of Traitors
4 Anceint Tombs
1 Tolarian Acad
2 Seat of the Synod
2 Academy Ruins
5 Mox
1 Lotus
1 Mana Crypt

4 Metal Workers
3 Basalt Monolith
1 Sol Ring

4 Staff of Domination
3 Sensie's Divining Top
3 Timevault
1 Goblin Cannon
1 Pentavus

4 Rings of the Brighthearth
2 Voltaic Key
1 Tinker
2 Planar Portal
1 Memory Jar

3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Sphere of Resisance
1 Tinisphere

Changes from Main List:
Adjusted mana base, and cut black.  Tinker is much better than DT esp with running 6 spheres.  Seats also add consistancy bc they are artifacts.

Cut Plats for Penavus:  Does a good job of keeping aggro on it's heals with "bus" fun.  In a deck with alot of mana he's solid.  But more importantly with infinite mana + rings you have infinite p/t and infinite pentavites.  Because you can remove a +1/+1 counter to create a pentavite and with rings copy that ability.  Then activate the 2nd ability and copy that ability to get TWO +1/+1 counters.  Netting +1/+1 and 1 pentavite in play for 6 mana.

Reduced Keys, and cut candelabra:
Both these cards bearly pull wieght.  Key is really only sitationally good.  I think two is the right number.  Candelabra is just not worth it.

Added Top: 
Top fits this deck like a glove.  Not only is it the shop's Brainstorm, giving the deck some ability to be selective, but it infinite combos with rings and infinite mana as well!  Because you copy the draw ability draw a fresh card, then draw top - replay top and repeat.

Added Thorn of Amethyst (another card from the new set):

Thorn of Amethyst {2}
Artifact
Non-creature spells cost {1} more to play.

So it's Glowrider hiding inside a sphere. 

This adds a huge amount of consistancy to the deck.  It means you start locking them out before you go for the win.  And the sphere do almost nothing to stop you from winning - because you have infinite mana!  It's not uncommon to slow roll the opponent with 2 or 3 sphere in play and just draw into the combo peices.

Sideboard options:
I think Leylines are a given... but I don't know.  So to be on the safe side well start with 4 leylines.  That leaves us 11 cards to play with.  The big question is "Do I care about Null Rod?" If the answer is yes, then I think the best solution would be:
4 Mycosynth Latus
4 Mycosynth Golem
3 Myr Enforcer

Of course the other option is board into shop-aggro and go something like:
4 Juggernaught
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Cranial Plating

Let's just consider this still in developement.
Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
BigBarn
Basic User
**
Posts: 48


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2007, 01:00:06 pm »

Isn't the spoiled Thousand-Year Elixir much better with Metalworker?  You can drop the Elixir turn 1 off a Workshop, and now not only does Metalworker have haste, but you'll get an untap with him too.

Thousand-Year Elixir -  {3}
Artifact (Rare)
You may play activated abilities of creatures you control as though those creatures had haste.
{1}{Tap}: Untap target creature.



if you're comparing ththe elixir to staff then it can't untap itself, gain you infinite life, tap a dryad/tog, and let you draw your deck....so I'm going with no

I wasn't really comparing the elixir to staff.  But if you want to, I think Haste can be much more important than any of the abilities than staff has to offer.  I mean, the whole idea of Metalworker is to just tap him and win, and the elixir just lets you pull that off sooner (and protects from removal).  Elixir is closer to lightning greaves than staff of domination, but I think it's the haste + 1 free untap that pushes it into the playable pile.
Logged
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2007, 01:12:14 pm »

I think the cost is what makes it not really playable... consider the hand:
Shop, Worker, Staff, Exilixer, Mox, Mox, Sol Ring.

Play Shop, Play worker.  Drop Mox Mox Sol ring, Elixier...... now you only have 1 artifact in hand.  Essentially its only a turn faster if you have lotus.
Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
BigBarn
Basic User
**
Posts: 48


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2007, 01:46:01 pm »

I think the cost is what makes it not really playable... consider the hand:
Shop, Worker, Staff, Exilixer, Mox, Mox, Sol Ring.

Play Shop, Play worker.  Drop Mox Mox Sol ring, Elixier...... now you only have 1 artifact in hand.  Essentially its only a turn faster if you have lotus.

The whole point of Elixir is you play it before you play Metalworker - in that exact scenario you go "Turn 1, Play Shop, Play Elixir.  Turn 2 Play Metalworker and go off."  Elixir just protects Metalworker and also happens to give you a free-untap.
Logged
rkmancer
Basic User
**
Posts: 102


all_moonsteak
View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 05:18:30 pm »


 
The big question is "Do I care about Null Rod?" If the answer is yes, then I think the best solution would be:
4 Mycosynth Latus
4 Mycosynth Golem
3 Myr Enforcer

Of course the other option is board into shop-aggro and go something like:
4 Juggernaught
4 Myr Enforcer
3 Cranial Plating

Let's just consider this still in developement.

So, is your planning as I consider to change this deck onto SHop Aggro when against any deck which contain null rod??
Why not mono artifact Stax instead??

Logged

Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 08:58:22 am »

@ Elixer - I fail to see how in that example you've accomplished anything.  It's a turn 2 win with or without Elixier... You keep talking about protecting the worker - but I fail to see how he is protected from anything but lightning bolt, shock, and chain of vapor... what he's not protected from is countermagic!  Giving them an extra turn to sculpt thier hand with brainstorm and get UU online is not doing Metalworker any favors.  A turn 2 win, is a turn 2 win.

@ Null Rod.  Again, I prefaced my board discussion with "Do I care about null rod?"  If the answer is no - then I'm just going to load up my board with my 4th of each sphere, some tormods, some chalices, and possibly some defense grids.  So basically - I commit to autoloosing to null rod, but enjoy a stronger game everywhere else. 

If I exect to be fighting against null rod more than once in a tournement ... I would probably shelve this deck.  There's no reason to fight upstream with a combo deck like this. 

However If I don't expect to fight null rod - but want to prepare for it I could include some cards that combat a null rod fish deck then I would go with the Mycosynth board.

Mycosynth Latic x4 - this works wonders in combating two common hate cards: #1) Null Rod, and #2) Energy Flux.
Against E.Flux its my 6 mana Reset Button: that hits my opponent first.  By playing it after Eflux hit the board, I can decimate thier board should the choose to keep Flux on the table, All I need to do is keep Latic on the board and they are suddenly @ zero cards in play. 
Against Null Rod it's a bit more synister but harder to pull off:  I need to get it in play after they drop Null Rod, and hopefully before they have a creature in play.  Latic + Rod = nothing can be tapped for mana, and no abilities may be activated.  So its a solid lock on the board.  If I have a sphere in play, it even cuts off Force of Will!  Then the plan is play draw-go until I hit an Affinity Card.  Assuming I've made enough land drops the Affinity card will cost {0} (because al my lands count as artifacts thanks to latic) and I can play him.  This gives me four 4/5's and three 4/4's (and the 4/5 lets me play out the workers and penatuv that are in the deck as a nice bonus).  It's not pretty, but it can really steal a game agianst null rod or flux.
Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
BigBarn
Basic User
**
Posts: 48


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 09:56:13 am »

With Lattice in play you don't need a sphere on the board to shut off Force of Will -  all the cards in their hands are colorless.
Logged
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 09:58:36 am »

With Lattice in play you don't need a sphere on the board to shut off Force of Will -  all the cards in their hands are colorless.

Wow - I never made that connection ... Savage.  Thanks for the correction!
Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
madmanmike25
Basic User
**
Posts: 719


Lord Humungus, Ruler of the Wasteland


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 04:55:02 pm »

Since this is pretty much a mono-brown deck, why don't you add in Serum Powders to help get your combo out quicker?  Metalworker can still use them for mana if they are dead draws.
Logged

Team Lowlander:  There can be only a few...

The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1860


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 09:15:40 am »

I think Powder and Streetwraith are the wronge dirrection to take the deck.  (And I did test Powder.)  Let me try and do my best to explain why:

1) Its a combo that requires sets of cards:  mostly 2 card sets, or 3 card sets.  And there is not one key card that overlaps all sets.
2) It doesn't need a particularly large hand to win, you can have a 4 card hand that is a turn 2 win: (Shop, Rings, Sol Ring, TValut for example)
3) The goal of the deck is to have a variety of wins, so if one fails another combo can pick up the win.

Cosidering the first and second points - it makes Powder weak.  Firstly, removing a Worker, or a Staff, or Rings with Powder hurts other cards in the deck.  So you aren't increaseing your chances of drawing a winning hand by running a 53 card deck. 
*This is unlike ichorid where it is searching for Bazaar and by RFGing 7 non-bazaar cards its increasing the chances of drawing Bazaar on the next 7.

Also, unlike chain combo decks like Belcher or Storm, this deck doesn't really need to worry about parising a hand even down to 5 cards.  So a bad 7 hand or a bad 6 hand aren't punished that heavily for going down a card.   On a similar point, with a high threat denisty, and multiple combo's that overlap on Rings... the deck can afford to keep hands with many options.  As a rule of thumb almost any hand with a playable Rings is keepable because there are so many cards you could draw to 'go off'.

The 3rd point is more of a philosphy.  I just think that more diverse win conditions are better than narrow ones.  I guess my point is that you could build a deck with street wraiths and powders and possibly some other cantrips and just run it as worker and staff .... but if that was going to be sucessful - why haven't we seen it yet?
Logged

Member of Team ~ R&D ~
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.053 seconds with 20 queries.