[Deck's Discussion] - MUD - Spheres & Disasters

[MaxxMatt]

Hi all,

during these days I worked hard with my teammates on finding the right place for Thorn of Ametyst.
Any previuosly built MUD can simply add other spheres to enanche long term locks.
With a better goal in my mind, I started to think about a deck that with the lowest mana investment ever used in a MW.dec, would have been able to almost deny opponents resources.

Nowadays, decks played are full of 1cc spells. Free spells, search ones and fixer ones are abused in any possible way and from month to month they progressively increased their importance and roles in such decks: they become THE_KEY for their own WINS.

With this idea in my mind I tried to search among the previuosly built MWdecks with the MINOR usage of 1cc spells.
MUD or MonoBrown build are the ones most capable of resolving a "blind" CotV@1 and then totally abuse of the rest of the pile.

The skeleton used, need a lot of lock pieces, in order to rise threats density to his mximum and contemporarily put a bit of pressure turn after turn, without leaving opponents "free spell" and recover.

My own MUD build

1) Attack mana base in the quicker and most massive ways.
2) Deny opponents' ability to abuse of a lot of spells in a single turn
3) In conjuction with 1) & 2) and in order to capitalize this advantage, I added quick threats and fast beaters

Why this strategy seems to me so strong, at now?

My picture for the modern metagame is:
-- GroATog and pesky chains of spells in order to make gigantic driads
-- Flash and his 60% of first turn kill
-- Ichorid and his "free-of-casting-costs-based-deck"
-- Speedy Storm decks with resilient mana bases but with an huge number of spells to reach for the win
-- Speedy Storm decks with fragile mana bases but with an huge number of spells to reach for the win
-- Quick Control.Combo deck with Storm based fiinishers and secondarily TpC/TpPLatz
-- Minor number of MW.dec ever had in a complex metagame
-- Revamping of Fish.denial strategies but at now but still a non predominant choice

Are you finding a path?

What I see is the perfect place for a deck devoted to deny opponents resources in the broadest way.

Opponents must resolve spells in order to win with ToA, EtW and BFreeze --> I put in all the spheres available at now.
Opponents realize how strong are some creatures and a lot of sorceries --> I add Wires to tap them out
Opponents think about cheating me playing the lowest possible mana curve --> I build a edck with CotVs, NRods and all the well known denial components
Opponents will project about waiting for the needed global bouncer and a possible recovery --> I rise the number of beaters and quick threats, lowering their own ( usually hgh ) mana cost.

Is is possible?
-Ichrorid would see his Bazaars broken and completely denied of being able to resolve any spells
-GroAtog will fill ( if lucky ) the board with 1/1 or 2/2 driads and nothing more
-Gush based decks with a strong mana base are the best equipped against us. I will divide them in two categories: the ones with a lower number of lands and the ones with less spells and more mana. The latters are utterly crushed by the combined action of lands' loss and increased casting cost for their own spells. The first ones can better react to us, but your own pressure is really high. I think that you have an edge over them game 1. Game 1 & 3 they need to add A LOT of spells or they can't compete so well.
-Storm based decks will be forced to play and win on the play or horribly lose ( progressively more and more ) their own long term ability to win
-Flash and his low number mana base will have problems in order to resolve his tutors and free spells for their quick wins.
-Aggro and Aggrocontrol decks can have an edge over us during game 1 but you'll be able to win easier game 2 & 3 thanks to sideboard wise additions.



This is the list:

(26) - Ugly Landscape
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
3 City of Traitors
1 Ghost Quarters
1 Stripmine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault

(23) - Spheres & Disasters
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Ametyst
3 Null Rod
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere

(11) - Angels of Death
4 Juggernaut
4 Black Vise
3 Phyrexian War Beast

(15) - Inner Weapons - Sideboard
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
3 Karn, the Silver Golem
3 Triskelion
3 Powder Keg


Let's see this monster deeply

Mana base is optimized in order to have more frequently as you can 3 stable mana on table. LPetal and MCrypt are missing because the first is one shot and the latter can kill you too often with ATombs and opponents damages. If you feel lucky, you can easily switch MVault for MCrypt and play with a better mana base ( only riskier than mine )

CoW are key and the both let you protect lands and iterate lands destruction ones. It is one of my favourite first or second turn spell. They are even more than crucial against MW.dec and Fish.dec. If you are not going to resolve CoW, you can risk to autolock yourself. On the other hand, the sideboard is so aggro.control dedicated that you can risk to lose game 1 but sistematically win game 2 & 3.

Rods, CotVs and Spheres are the best and quickest locks available at now. They can come in pairs even on turn 1 and they massively stop opponents from abusing of chains of spells. Global bouncers are a real pain for us but Rods and Spheres can deny opponents from playing them enough for your creatures to beat them down. Qiuck creatures & BVises coupled with Spheres & Rods can let you kill opponents in not more than 3 or 4 turns.

Smart opponents will abuse of Fetchlands, if possible, in order to stabilize their own mana base, until ther first global bouncer. You will tap them  out with TWires and optimize Wastelands, too. I don't add all the different full sets of denial lands because they are too redundant and because I have to avoid my own autolock. While opponents will be denied of playing spells, I have to continuosly play threats thanks to my special lands. With this porpouse in mind, you can even add CityofTraitors#4 instead of GQuarters#1. It will give you more mana available during the midgame.

As you can see, I'll be able to stress opponent with both reactive and proactive spells. CotVs and Spheres are crucial during the first turns because they will bring more trouble to opponents as soon as they resolve. On the other hand, if opponents will take advantage from their own speedy first or second turn, you'll be able to regain time with Rods. CoWs and TWires. It is an unusual game perspective for a Monobrown.
A lot of interactions and additional resources come from sideboard for game 2 & 3. You'll have more and more tools to recover from bad positions against any specific enemy.

Winners have been the most controversed choices until now. I initially played with Juggy, PWBeasts and SynodCenturions, but centurions are REALLY REALLY bad. 4/4 ( and not 5/3 ) for a 4cc spell is too much for this deck. I switched them in test, with 4 Black Vises and things come out to be better. Quick BVises can win games alone against a lot of powered and cards advantage decks. Coupled with our locking pieces they are even better. CotV@1 can be antisinergic with them during midgame. On the other hands, Centurions are not better at any time. They are a bit overcosted for their own impact on the game while BVises, if lucky, are game breaking at least during the early game. BVises first and creatures later are a sure path for the victory. PWBeasts have a nicer body for 3cc and the mana base configuration coupled with SPheres tend to force me preferring them to other 4cc creatures.

Sideboard have been tuned against Ichorid, Aggro and AggroControl decks. TCrypts, Kegs and Needles are good aganst  Ichorid. Spheres would shut down their own spells, Kegs will kill zombies, Crypts and Needles are there to stop their own engine.

Fish.dec and MW.decs can be fighted with Kegs, Triskelions and Karns. You'll swap them for spheres and add elements for a quicker race.
The same strategy can be used to achieve quick wins and against decks with too many gobal bouncers/removals and too many basic lands ( monoblue, monoblack, monored & so on ).

Had I considered other cards, other spells and other additions to this list?
Enough to say that almost any largely used card have been added and refused for a lot of reasons.
Smokestacks, GQuarters, Skullclamps, Modular.Men, Duplicants, MFactories, Catodions, WOrbs, Caltrops & so on are good cards.
For the sinergies I showed to you and the results the tests gave to me ( us, thanks teammates ), the maindecked cards are the best ones to fight current tier1s.

..and yes, Tinker for Platinum is game over game 1 and again ...yes, so many spheres can be redundant sometimes and again... yes, unlucky draws can interfere with your winning percentages... and...

As you can see, I played it a lot and tested against a lot of different opponents: The "CONS" are so unfrequent and with so a light statistical impact when compared to ALL the "PROS" I find playing this list that they completely disappered to my eyes...


Enjoy!
MaxxMatt

[sorcutt]

Why did you choose to exclude Smokestack? It seems like a pretty logical choice in a deck with so many permanents to sacrifice and saves you from the auto-loss against tinkerplatz.dec and other various shenanigans.

[Kotch]

I like the list, packing so much mana disruption!

Here are the changes I would make for the Maindeck :
-4 Black Vise
-3 Phyrexian War Beast
-1 Ghost Quarter
-1 City of Traitors

+4 Smokestack
+3 Razormane Masticore
+2 Mishra's Factory

Smokestack are imho a good choice in the curent metagame, even with so much Gush, because they are forcing opponent to sacrifice their Dryads or other mana sources. Moreover, in a deck with 100% permanents, you can handle a 1counter-Smokestack long enough to beat opponent with a critter.
Black Vise fits well in this objective and this Gush meta, but unfortunately costs 1, which is antisynergic with CotV, like Maxxmatt said. That's why I would run Razormane Masticore instead of Black Vise in the Critter slots, beating Quirion Dryads and Fish-decks so easily. The card disadvantage it provides is minimal in the current meta, no one packs Discard spells, and Duress/Thoughsize are shut down by CotV @1.

The mana base seems solid, I just don't like the 3rd City of Traitors (never played on turn 1, and you never want 2 of them), and I either dislike Ghost Quarter. I like Factories a lot in an aggro objective, they are good complementary beaters, bringing them to the number of 9. And they are sooo good with CoW...

I don't like the fact to cut the possibility to have Mana Crypt in the starting hand, but I agree that it is quite risky even with Smokestacks Maindeck.


For information, I was also working on an Aggro MUD list packing 9 Spheres, but instead of Null Rod I was playing Karn. Here is the list :

AGGRO MUD :
Maindeck 60 cards :
Mana 27 :
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 City of Traitors
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
Lock pieces 24 :
1 Trinisphere
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Beatdown 9 :
2 Triskelion
3 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Juggernaut
SB: 3 Razormane Masticore
SB: 4 Orb of Dreams
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Jester's Cap/Pithing Needle

This list runs Mana Crypt, sacrifiable with 7 cards. The mana base is also a bit different, because I don't run Null Rod.
I really love Karn which is a good Mox eater and a great 2-turn finisher, even if it is weaker than Null Rod in a mana disruption objective.

However, I really don't know which one of ROD MUD or KARN MUD can be more effective in the current meta.

[MaxxMatt]

Hi again, thanks for the comments and hints but I have to categorely refuse them all.
Let me articulate a bit more on this issue.

If I can let you see the "picture" I painted while building this deck with my own words, maybe you'll be able to realize why my pile have been built in this exact way, taking out some good old staples from this archetipe.
Take in mind, you can surf through TMD and search almost everywhere about me talking about MUD.decs. They are some of my commonly tested/updated build, so I have experience and a good historical background of knowledges to state things about this deck.
 
Now, back to the main argument.
Think about 9spheres.MUD.
You have a deck that must move itself without clunking in his own best theorical scenario: at least 2 spheres in play and other hate.
It will be really hard even for a commonly used MW.dec. Even if a single land went broken for some reason, OLD.MUD with spheres in play, can autolock itself.
This is the worst real play scenario you can paint compared to the same best theorical one. It will be a nonsense.
You can't risk autolose because of inherent deckbuilding flaws.

While OLD.MUD usually abuse of Metalworkers & Hypercosted.Artifacts in order to resolve a pletora of spells in a couple of turns, this NEO.MUD abuse of multi.mana lands in order to achieve a better and quicker hate.

Why is it better? Why is it quicker?
It is better because metagame is faster than 1.5 years ago, when 4Trini.dec doomed uncontrasted. A faster metagame need a faster lock, attacking more and more the INNER BASIS of opponents' resources. For this reasons I cut slow spells. For SLOW SPELLS, I'm going to refer to any one of the artifacts' ones that don't do actual threats THE SAME TURN THEY RESOLVE. Simple. Smokestack does nothing as soon as it resolve and it is overcosted. Metalworker does nothing the turn it resolves, its resoluion usually need an entire game.turn and it doesn't function under NRod. Both are good the next turn. Without all those additional spheres and mine new decks configuration, you can easily realize HOW GOOD are they. BUT NOW, when you can decide to play CHEAPEST threats and MORE MASSIVE and QUICKER HATE, why oh earth, have I play Smoke/MWorkers anymore?

Land, CotV@0, Smokestack. It is a good lock if you can chain other board spells after then. Unluckily for us, it leaves opponents another turn to recover if you are on the play or 2 full turns if you are on the draw. Is it enough to beat Storm, Ichorid, Flash and Control? AT NOW, of course NOT!

My deck's configuration usually let you resolve ( or try to resolve ) two spells when compared with the total cost needed to resolve Smokestacks, Metalworkers, Karn, Masticore, Triskelions and so on...
Think about you playing this deck, locking opponents with a good starting hand AND THEN CLUNK YOURSELF because Smoke costs 6, MWorker costs 5, Karn costs 7, Masticore costs 7, Trisk costs 8 and so on...

You have to think about "the bad days" where things don't go well instead of evaluating ONLY those scenarios during which you aren't mana screwed by opponents or unlucky draws.

Which decks's configuration is MORE RESILIENT to hate?
Of course the one with the minor casting cost.
At now, mine.



More on this issue.
Functionally speaking Smokestack is one of the best removal MUD had to recover from bad position or kill opponents permanents in a nearly asimmetrical way due to our commonly used decks' conguration.

At now, you'll want to put spheres OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN, even two of them during turn 1 or you can lose from your smart or lucky opponent.

You, Land, Mox Smoke, CotV@0
Flash, Land, ESG, Flash, GG
Storm, Land, Ritual, Tutor, Brokeness, GG
Ichorid, Bazaar, LotV, Discard Effect, Dredge & Make Permanents, Win race, GG
Against those frequently faced decks you can't be good with OLD MUD TOOLS.

NEW ADDITIONS
1) Null Rod
2) Thorn of Ametyst
3) Lower Casting Cost Beaters

1 & 2 have a cc low enough to be able to play at least two threats ( among all the ones at your disposal ) during turn 1. It is crucial for winning the game.
3 is NECESSARILY because of 2). You can add nearly simmetrical locking elements and think about being able to play the deck with the SAME MANA CURVE




The BVises' unrestriction make me feel about them too.
They aren't random first turn damages any more, but they become "random wins alone"
If you have BVise in hand, you can BOTH resolve them and locking elements ( CotV@0, CotV@1, SoR, ToAm & so on )
If you don't hols BVise in hand, feel free to load your board with the rest of your hand. No more need of them in order to win. You have other beaters and opponents are going to concede games soon enough against you if they realize that they are completely locked.

If you feel really worried about not being able to play BVise too often ( I didn't have this problem yet ) you can step back and play with additional 4 beaters with a cc not higher than 4.
BE CAREFUL! 4!!! 4!!! Can be enough to clunck yourself. Don't add higher cc spells/creatures without leaving some locking components from maindeck. On the other hand, if you would go through this street ( lowering the number of threats, not adding creatures instead of BVises ) you will come back to MUD2006, again.

Have you seen the path?
Have you understood my goals, ideas and reasons behind my own choices?

Your test list is simply a good OLD.MUD.DEC ( don't read any attack or flame towards this statement. it is simply a matter of fact. your list is MUD2005/06 + 4ToA ).
Mine is tuned for this rolling year of intense gameplay.



Feel free to ask me about anything else about the deck, if my words, experiences with it and tests can be of some help.
I put testing results as soon as I will be able to write them on my Notebook.

MaxxMatt

[Kotch]

I understand your goals 

I am just sceptic about two of your kills : Phyrexian War Beast and Black Vise. I find PWB quite risky, losing 1 land can be a real problem sometimes, isn't it? I like Black Vise a lot, if only it could cost 2 manas!
Did you consider Viseling in place of Black Vise? Or the artifact-creature that costs 3, and is 3/4, and has "you can't play creature spells as long as this is in play"? Or even Arcbound Ravager which is good against the Bridges of Ichorid?...

By the way, your list cannot beat Ichorid on game 1, right? I was surprised to see no Orb of Dreams in your list, at least in the SB... I know that you already get Pithing Needle and Tormod's Crypt, but that's "only" 6 cards...

[madmanmike25]

A few things:

You run 11 aggro cards and 23 lockdown cards, so in all honesty it leans more towards the lockdown side, so I do find it odd that you don't go with Smokestack...yet go for Crucible Waste/G.Q. lock.  That's not me saying that you need to add in Smokestacks, but I do find it curious.

I can understand your inclusion of Black Vice in todays Gush filled meta.  That makes sense to me since essentially it can act like a creature doing 3 damage without the summoning sickness.

MUD or MonoBrown build are the ones most capable of resolving a "blind" CotV@1 and then totally abuse of the rest of the pile.

I totally agree.  Chalice is an all-star in MUD, even more so than in UbaStax and thats saying something.  Lately I have been auto-setting my Chalices at 1, before 0.

Is Null Rod the right card for this environment?  If you look on this site, me and WhiteWolf worked on a Null Rod Mud list that was pretty effective.  I'm just not sure that Rod is the right card today.  I really think you could swap in Orb of Dreams here.

I agree to an extent about the War Beast being questionable.  3 mana for 3 damage next turn isn't too scary.  I hate to say it, but they could easily be replace with Metalworkers which in turn gives you access to Karn.  Karn would be much faster than a 3/4.  With Metalworker, you obviously don't lay him down first, (unless you dont mind your opponent going broken and winning) you disrupt first.  However games 2/3 a first turn Metalworker+Cotv@0 leads to a 2nd turn Jesters Cap activation, so he can in essentially become a turn 1 threat.  Also regarding Karn, I think he is better than Juggernaut, and takes care of the mox problem that you run Null Rod for.  Sorry to add this comment since I know its not the direction you want to go, but that's the way I see it.

I can see all your 'strip' effects being a headache for Ichorid, but is that enough?

The lack of draw/filter concerns me.  Even in our MUD build we added Bazaar to help, there were plenty of games where bad top-decks caused a game loss.  Since you run Crucible and no Metalworkers could you find any room for 2-3 Bazaars?

For this reasons I cut slow spells. For SLOW SPELLS, I'm going to refer to any one of the artifacts' ones that don't do actual threats THE SAME TURN THEY RESOLVE. Simple. Smokestack does nothing as soon as it resolve and it is overcosted. Metalworker does nothing the turn it resolves, its resoluion usually need an entire game.turn and it doesn't function under NRod. Both are good the next turn.

I like your thinking in terms of speed, but to be fair Crucible doesn't always do something the turn it resolves either.  I believe Metalworker and Crucible are pretty much interchangeable in MUD decks, meaning you really don't need to play with both.  But to play a MUD deck without either Karn, Metalworker or Smokestack in the maindeck is disadvantageous.

Good luck with the deck,  I really wish there were more 3cc artifact creatures worth a dam.
Mike

[MafiaKingpin]

I ran MUD at the SCG Indy going 5-3.  I agree with a ton of what madmanmike had to say.  The deck had problems with a lack of draw.  I would play everything in my hand and then I would be in topdeck mode where I would get land.  I really wanted to have Bizaar in the deck for that fact. 

I also played with Metalworkers.  It was awesome to be able to play a turn 2 Sundering Titan, Trike or Karn.  Karn was an all-star in the deck.  He gives the deck a much faster clock, and in a Stax Mirror that isn't playing him he is far superior to Mox Monkey once you can get him out.

I agree that Null Rod really isn't that good in this deck.  I really should be replaced with Orb of Dreams.  That card is great against Gush and Fastbond.  They play their lands again but can't combo off b/c they can't use them until the next turn.  It is also great against Ichorid due to their Ichorids becoming useless and FKZ not doing anything either.  Sphere + Orb vs Ichorid is great and can sometimes mean GG.  Speaking of this matchup, Tabernacle should be in your SB for it too along w/ Needle on Bazaar which makes Vise win you the game.  It also helps out against goblins and a few other random aggro decks floating around (just pray you don't play Goblins w/ MD Tin Streets like I got paired up against in the 1st round of Indy).

If the deck can get going it can have pretty strong locks early and if it can hold them and continue to draw into them it can be done FTW.  I like Juggernaught which I didn't play in Indy but played Trike, Dup, Karn x2, and Titan.  I was never really a fan of Ghost Quarters but leaned more towards Factories which worked pretty well.  My SB which worked wonders for me all day was:
Needle x4
LoTV x4
Tabernacle x2
Jester's Cap x3
Powder Keg x2

The only changes I would make to it is to add x2 Razormane's for the Kegs.  He would have helped out a bunch with stuff.

I hope this helps and I just wanted to put my $0.02 in after playing this at Indy.