The Swamps Win Again!

[mr cheese]

This is sort of like a playoff the Mountains Win Again, except no red. It has the same play style; bring on the beats and disrupt your opponent.

Here's the list

The Swamps Win Again! V. 1.4

4 Scrubland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
3 Swamp
1 Strip Mine

4 Dark Confidant
4 Jotun Grunt
3 Goldmeadow harrier
3 kataki, War's Wage
3 Calciderm
3 Aven Mindcensor

4 Duress
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Sudden Death
2 Rule of Law
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mox Pearl

Sb:
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Glowrider
1 Rule of Law
3 Suppression Field

Updated Dec. 15 07

Mainly, this deck is used to combat my meta of creatures, graveyard, storm and shop decks.

Basically I beat down and disrupt like I said earlier. My choices...

Harriers: They are the new Whipcorders, lock down Tarmos.

Confidants: The draw engine

Jotun: A huge beater, also helps against graveyard decks.

Kataki: For any artifact deck and a nice beater.

Calciderm: If this resolves, there is a fairly good chance you are going to win unless you get horrible topdecks. This guy is amazing and no one sees it coming.

Aven Mindcensor-Flyer, which helps, and it disrupts.

Mishra's factorys: Beaters,  and can come back through Crucible

Duress: Obvious, but doersn't need to be replaced with Thoughtseize. I don't think that pulling creatures wil matter that much due to the kill I have in the deck.

4 StP: helps against DSC, Dryads, and anything big or annoying.

Rule of Law: Helpful for slowing down opponents and not giving them the explosive turns. This is mainly for the Storm decks in my meta. Is there a better card than this that can fill that role?

Sudden Death: Who doesn't want kil that can't be responded to?

Demonic: Used to get some singletons in the deck.

Crucible: To make the Crucible/Strip Combo, to get back Factories, and to thin my deck of lands.

Sideboard Explanations

Leyline: Ichorid, Flash, Dragon
Glowrider: Storm, Burn
Suppression Field: Stax
Jitte: Creatures
Rule of Law: see above

What do you think. Any thing I should change/think about/ info needed to be given etc.

[Guli]

Deck looks good (solid) but nothing really original or breaking.

How are the mirror ents working out?

TMWA don't need mountains to be called TMWA

[dawgie]

Isn't 4 Jotun Grunts questionable? You don't want to draw them early especially as there are not that many cards in the yard. I think I'll cut them down to 3 and add a Vamp Tutor in its place.

[mr cheese]

Ok, now after testing. Mirror Entity's are cool in all, but they are too slow. I think I'm gonna replace them with Aven Mindcensor, or something else.

About the Jotuns, I haven't had many problems arise yet with what you are saying. I like having early Jotuns out, after playing my little guys and then someone killing them.

I need Infests too... , I think they would be better than Hideous Laughters due to mana cost. I don't like that its a sorcery, but I will try it out.

[TopSecret]

I had a BW deck for a little bit, and it didn't do too badly in practice.

MJWA:

Beaters 18

4 Dark Confidant
4 Mesmeric Fiend
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Glowrider
2 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Joten Grunt

Disruption 13

3 Diabolic Edict
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach

Manas 27

2 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Flooded Strand
4 Scrubland
3 Caves of Koilos

Sideboard (Probably needs revision):

1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Glowrider
4 Yixlid Jailer
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Open Slots

Obviously, there are some new and interesting considerations for BW decks post Lorwyn
which I couldn't take into account at the time, like Thoughtseize.

I was in a very blue combo-centric metagame,
so the discard was very nice, and the Duress + Fiend package usually cleared the way for Hymn to Tourach against Misdirection.
I only got to play a few games against Stax, but it seemed alright, depending on the die roll.
Of course, this deck seriously fears Chalice at 2, so it'd probably be good to have AEther Vial in the sideboard or something.
The one problem matchup I found, though there are probably more, was Bomberman.
Two/Fours, utility beaters, and resource recursion is bad times.

Looking at your list, I notice that you don't have much discard, so I'm guessing that you have a less combo centered field to deal with.
Is there anything specific you're targeting in your metagame?
If you describe what matchups you have in mind, it'd help others get a better idea of what direction you want to take the deck in.

[mr cheese]

I do not have much discard in my deck, if I was to add more, I would probably add Gerrard's Verdict, just to keep me up from Bob's life loss.

My meta is different than most. Here's the decks played at my last tournament. ..

2 Flash decks-slivers
2 GAT
1 URBana Fish
1 Stax
1 U/G Madness
1 Oath
1 Mono Green Elves
1 U/W Fish
2 Sligh
1 BWG Aggro Control-Like TMWA

Now out of those 61.5% played blue, and FoW's. I would say about half of those decks also played Mana Drain or some sort of relevant counter (ex: Circular Logic for Madness). Blue is heavy, but aggro is heavy too.  And the only combo was actually Flashes, Gats and Oath.

You said your deck was in a blue concentrated combo meta, well mine ius blue, but not neccessarily combo, but you can replace it with aggro.

You mention your hard times against Bomberman, the only reason I'm winning against it is with Sudden Death on the Salvagers. The Trinket Mages do get annoying, but with the late game recurring Mishra's Factories, he can't do too much about that.

The kinds of decks I am targetting are...(with examples from the meta)

1. Graveyard decks (Dragon, Ichorid, Flash, Yawg Will Kills)
2. Creatures (Sligh, Fish, A/C, MGA)
3. Shop/Stax decks (They are becoming more popular, with the rise of 13Sphere decks, this is an earlier report)
4. Storm/Recurring Combos (GAT, Bomberman)

I am not sure if I should focus on less decks, or widen up. I feel I'm in the right spot at the moment, but nothing ever stays the same.

1. Graveyard decks usually get beaten by Leyline, but this is the most widely used hater for graveyard decks, so most players are prepared (Reverent Silence, Chain of Vapor). I could play Tormod's Crypts, uncommon graveyard deck haters, but cannot stop Flash, which is a problem. Many of the players that are playing T2 decks are little kids that haven't heard of Flash Hulk, and don't come prepared for it, which makes Flash slowly becoming a bigger contender. Basically my strategy for this is basically almost mull to a Leyline or mull till I get a tutor for a Leyline. Then I get it in play, and beat down as fast as I can, hoping to win. Game 1 I most liek;y lose. Game 2 would probably be a win, becuase I can Leyline, then Duress, or Strip Bazaar. Game 3 is a toss-up.

2. Creatures: This is not very hard. I play my creatures, and kill the problematic ones or bigger ones, and swing, swing, swing. Many people who play creatures normally do not play sideboards, or good ones. The ones that do though are well prepared, and I would ahve to side in Infests, and a Rule of Law to slow some decks down. Jotuns do help against aggro and so do Calciderms, becuase when they hit, the opponent will usually stop atacking and chump block.

3. These decks take a while before getting down, and usully don't play any kill (Moonglove Extract, Lightning Bolkt ). If I get a Kataki, I just won't swing with it and play and attack as normal. Game 2: I would side in Suppression Fields depending on what kinds of cards I have seen. Same strategy Game 2 really.

4. Some Storm decks that players have can be always winning turn 1 and getting disrupted heavily, or winning consistently on turn 2-4. Mono Black Storm is an example of Type#1, Gat is an example of Type#2. What I have to do is Duress, and maybe some extra discard in the side (Should I do this?) and see if they have FoWs in hand. Rule of Law kills their deck or majorly slows it down IF it resolves. Big if there. Sudden Death can also help killing Dryads, Togs, and Salvagers before they egt big or combo off.

I hope I told you what you wanted and maybe now I can get full suggestions for the deck.

[TopSecret]

Hmm. Now that you've described your metagame, your maindeck makes a lot more sense to me.

The only thing I don't really understand is your sideboard choices.
They make sense, but it seems like there're better options:

Would Umezawa's Jitte be better than Infest against the creature decks?
It seems like Jitte would be superior, since you're also playing creatures.
Infest has chance to be clunky in some scenarios where it can kill your creatures,
and holding back creatures against aggro-control decks can definitely be risky,
since Infest can be countered.

How have Children of Korlis been?
I've never gotten them to be effective,
since Storm combo usually sideboards in some creature removal for game 2, like Massacre, and Sligh can burn them.
Although, it would depend on your opponent's sideboarding plan, I don't think that Children would be very good in either matchup.

For alternatives in the storm combo matchup, I would suggest Glowriders.
They've been pretty good in my experience against spell chaining decks
by cutting off their cycle combo, their spell chaining, and gaining some time while beating.
Although, I didn't play Rule of Law in the sideboard, and I had more hand disruption,
so something like Children might be much better than Glowrider because it fills in for the disruption you'd lack on turns 1 and 2.

If you really need something against Sligh, would it be worth playing Burrenton Forge-Tender?
I haven't played against Sligh for a while, so there are probably better things, like perhaps Circle of Protection Red, or something to the effect.

How have Suppression Fields been in the Stax matchup?
I tried them a little bit ago, and they seemed good,
especially when shutting off Bazaar, Wasteland, and Triskelion.
I think that they're good, but I've always wondered if Serenity or Devout Witness would be better.

If you need more sideboard material against graveyard strategies, Samurai of the Pale Curtain may be a nice addition to the Leylines.

Good luck!

[mr cheese]

I should have mentioned this in the first post is that my meta is usually jumbled. Those just happened to be the decks that showed up. It's a good representation, but usualy there's rarely a Sligh deck, and sometimes more Bomberman and Dragon. Nevertheless, its still good.

I find Jitte good in most creature decks but not in all. This is one of the creature decks I think it has a spot in, especially with the Mindcensors and evasive damage. I'll try it out for the time being, I'll see if it is better than Infest.

Glowrider is something I have been looking for, I love how its dual purpose and shuts down Storm decks. Looking at it now, it seems the Children are weak, compard to the Glowrider. I'll definately sub that in.

I think I am going to keep the Fields. I do like Serenity, but I don't want it destroying my artifacts.

I was considering the Samarai, but it makes Jotun Grunts pointless, so I decided to go with Leyline of the Void.

Thanks for all of your help!

[Mophead-Masquerade]

I was running a  deck for a long time. My latest list ran Enlightened Tutor and a tool box for it. I added in more moxen,1 engineered explosives, 1 jitte, 2 seal of cleansing, and crucible, which you already run.

jitte maindeck helps to speed up your clock when you lucksack into it(not always the best tutor target against say, storm combo), and make game 1 against aggro much better for you. My creature removal package always cosisted of 4 stp, 3-4 edicts, 1 ee and 1 jitte. It tends to be enough. but there was a time where I also ran 2 darkblast. Also EE gives you a maindeck answer to ETW tokens. Something which you don't really have an answer for.

I was trying to find room for sensei's divining top because it has synergy with bob, and it freeking stacks your deck! but my other slots just seemed more important.

seals maindeck really help you deal with stax's pesky lock peices, at least until you can drop a kataki.  also oath finds it hard to win when you kill their oaths.however, i have won a game against oath where there were three oaths out. I had waste +crucible, and recurring darkblast ensured no forbidden orchard shenanigans. Mishra's factories won the game for me.

Enlightened tutor helps you grab rule of law against tendrils base decks.

ET was always really good to me, however our metas are a little different so I don't completely know if it is the right call for you.

Also, I had always ran 4 duress and 3 hymn to tourach. going first turn d. rit--> duress + hymn to tourach is hard for any deck to come back from. well maybe not madness.....

I hope I have helped with your deck.

Also have any of you tested green? I've been satisfied in my testing with the addition of gaddock teeg and tarmogoyf.

[mr cheese]

I was running a  deck for a long time. My latest list ran Enlightened Tutor and a tool box for it. I added in more moxen,1 engineered explosives, 1 jitte, 2 seal of cleansing, and crucible, which you already run.

jitte maindeck helps to speed up your clock when you lucksack into it(not always the best tutor target against say, storm combo), and make game 1 against aggro much better for you. My creature removal package always cosisted of 4 stp, 3-4 edicts, 1 ee and 1 jitte. It tends to be enough. but there was a time where I also ran 2 darkblast. Also EE gives you a maindeck answer to ETW tokens. Something which you don't really have an answer for.

I was trying to find room for sensei's divining top because it has synergy with bob, and it freeking stacks your deck! but my other slots just seemed more important.

seals maindeck really help you deal with stax's pesky lock peices, at least until you can drop a kataki.  also oath finds it hard to win when you kill their oaths.however, i have won a game against oath where there were three oaths out. I had waste +crucible, and recurring darkblast ensured no forbidden orchard shenanigans. Mishra's factories won the game for me.

Enlightened tutor helps you grab rule of law against tendrils base decks.

ET was always really good to me, however our metas are a little different so I don't completely know if it is the right call for you.

Also, I had always ran 4 duress and 3 hymn to tourach. going first turn d. rit--> duress + hymn to tourach is hard for any deck to come back from. well maybe not madness.....

I hope I have helped with your deck.

Also have any of you tested green? I've been satisfied in my testing with the addition of gaddock teeg and tarmogoyf.

I haven't replied to this thread in a while, but I am still playing the deck. The local tournament is coming up in a few weeks, and I would like to play this. The problem is we haven't had room to have tourneys since September, and I have no clue what the Lorwyn field will look like. I'm guessing that everyone except a few people will stay with their own decks.

Mophead: I like your ideas, I have tested them during this time, and they weren't quite up to par as what I am looking for.

For example: I like having the security against GAT with Sudden Death, and it can kill Morphling. (a popular win-condition)

I have the Same problem with the Tops as you, I can't find open slots for them.

Seals are the same cost (mana) as Kataki, and I feel Kataki would do more damage. Maybe replacing Supopression Field in the side, but I'll see at the next tournament.

I'm a fan of Enlightned Tutor, the problem is that I don't have much targets (Crucible, Rule of Law, )

If I was playing Black Sorm, I would definately play the Duress, Hymn to Tourach set, I just don't like the double-black on Hymn to Tourach. Calciderm's different because it's turn 3 or 4 that I get one and can playu one.  By then I have double white.

The idea I do like is that I'm putting in a Jitte maindeck for a Demonic Tutor target. It wins games a lot, and I will probabl fit it in eventually.

About green. I have many options. I could go GW Gaddock lock with Tarmo, or GB Loam w/Terravore and Factories plus Tarmo. I could go 3-colour , but I don't see myself doing that. It really depends on the meta I see.

Thank you for all of your suggestions. Even though I didn't like some of them, they present a future for my deck.

And bump!

[SimonCopp]

I feel like the deck needs more Jittes. It's just way better removal than what you've got. I also felt there wasn't enough plays without a mox/rit so i added some one drops. Consultation is also better than DT for your deck in general. Having no Wastelands when your disruption isn't that hot is pretty terrible. Calciderm just costs way too much and doesn't really circumvent Dryad, Tog and Goyf. Sudden Death seems hard to play when you're already trying to play a lot of expensive spells with Confidant in your deck.

This list is pretty much off the top of my head.

4 Savannah Lions
3 Isamaru, Hound Of Konda
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Aven Mindcensor

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
4 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

SB:
4 Yixlid Jailer
1 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Seal Of Cleansing
3 Cruel Edict
4 Other slots

[Zherbus]

Eric Becker has an article on a list that's got a bit of testing behind it here.

[Zelow]

yo simiancop (sorry if i spelt that wrong kinda early cant think lol) i like that list but i was wondering it looks like there is quite a bit of colorless mana running around in this deck why not run all the moxen and maybe there is a reason but why dont i see any diabolic eddicts? (inless i missed them lol once again it is early) anywho i am officailly drawn to this deck due to its relitivly inexpensive cards and great playability. ill be testing this one and let you guys know how it goes ill give results and best matchups.

[SimonCopp]

yo simiancop (sorry if i spelt that wrong kinda early cant think lol) i like that list but i was wondering it looks like there is quite a bit of colorless mana running around in this deck why not run all the moxen and maybe there is a reason but why dont i see any diabolic eddicts? (inless i missed them lol once again it is early) anywho i am officailly drawn to this deck due to its relitivly inexpensive cards and great playability. ill be testing this one and let you guys know how it goes ill give results and best matchups.

You could very well be right.

It's like
-2 Sacland
-1 Wasteland

or just
-3 Sacland

I'd have to figure out which one is correct though.

[Zelow]

lol just noticed swords lol duh way better than edicts