Build Your Own Standard -- No Banned List

[emidln]

Here's a little experiment: Build Your Own Standard with the only banned list being ante cards. The sets allowed are core sets from 5th edition onwards and blocks from Ice Age onward. I'd like to do a MWS tourney for this in a few weeks if anyone's interested. If I get some response, I'll run the MWS tourney starting the third week of December.

[Nydaeli]

I hope you realize how stupid broken this is going to be.  Urza's + Ice Age + 5th + 6th = Ritual, Academy, Necro, Consultation, Vampiric, Windfall, and YawgWill, among others.

Sounds fun, though.

[emidln]

I hope you realize how stupid broken this is going to be.  Urza's + Ice Age + 5th + 6th = Ritual, Academy, Necro, Consultation, Vampiric, Windfall, and YawgWill, among others.

Sounds fun, though.

I do. I'm just curious what stupid broken deck prevails.

[BC]

Urza Block is definitely the favorite for most broken block ever.  My second favorite block of all time, however, is Mirrodin. 

[ErkBek]

I might be down for something like this if it fits into my schedule. I look forward to building a stupid combo deck and not having to worry about flash.

[Nydaeli]

I might be down for something like this if it fits into my schedule. I look forward to building a stupid combo deck and not having to worry about flash.

Bad news - you can make Flash using 6th Edition (Flash), Ravnica (Hulk) and Mirrodin (Disciple+Ravager).  Plus 5th Edition for Vampiric, Mystical and Worldly Tutor.

You only get one base set, but those tutors are fortunately all in 6E - Godder.

Bleh, I blame finals week.  I swear I vaguely understand the basics of Magic formats...

[Anusien]

You only get 1 base set.

Also, do you have enough artifacts to sac with Disciple + Ravager?  Ravager, Disciple x 4, and 4 Ornithopter.  That's 16 damage (plus I suppose a 5/5) but nowhere near gg.

I think the strongest deck starts like this:
4 Necropotence
4 Dark Ritual
4 Grim Monolith
4 Demonic Consultation
3 Donate
3 Illusions of Grandeur
4 Force of Will
4 Duress

[Harlequin]

By Dropping 5th dawn (loosing Cranial Plate) and picking up Saga you can make one beast of an Affinity deck (think pre-banning ... but with Tolarian and Time Spiral - the card).

Something in the Realm of:

4 Tolarian Acads
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnase
4 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Dream's Grip / AEthervial (not sure which is a bigger mana-saver with Acad)
4 Chromatic Sphere

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite / Ornithopter
2 Atog

4 Skullclamp
3 Toughtcast
3 Time Spiral

////////////////////

Alternately: 6th - Urza's Destiny - Scourge - Ice Age.

You get:
Flash
Acad Rector
Yawg's Bargin
Form of the Dragon
Tendrils
Mind's Desire

Necro
Vamp Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Worldly tutor (if needed)
Brainstorm
DOOMS DAY (although I'm not sure how you pull this off)

Mana Acceleration:
Dark Rit
Summers Bloom
Bubbling Muck

Tinder Wall
Songs of the Damned
Spoils of Evil
Birds of Paradice
Carnival of Souls
Blood Pet
Ashnod's Alter
Burnt Offering

City of Brass

[Nefarias]

By Dropping 5th dawn (loosing Cranial Plate) and picking up Saga you can make one beast of an Affinity deck (think pre-banning ... but with Tolarian and Time Spiral - the card).

You have to pick an entire block, I believe, not just three sets. So, you can't just remove one set (Fifth Dawn) from a block (Mirrodin) and add another set (Urza's Saga).

That said, you could pick Urza's and Mirrodin as your two blocks, and do what you suggest. That will give you Urza's Saga, Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny, Mirrodin, Darksteel, and Fifth Dawn, as well as any one 5th-10th Core Set.

[Harlequin]

I dunno, that sounds like "Build your own Type 2" not build your own "Block."  Isn't a block made up of 3 sets? 

[Anusien]

The rules are:
Any one Block
Any other Block
Any core set between 5th and 10th.

Any card banned in Legacy is banned.
Any card banned in a block format is banned.

[Matt]

Also, do you have enough artifacts to sac with Disciple + Ravager?  Ravager, Disciple x 4, and 4 Ornithopter.  That's 16 damage (plus I suppose a 5/5) but nowhere near gg.

You tard, you sac the Ravager to itself to make it 20. Were you not around for the pre-0/0 Flash development?

Also,

The rules are:
Any one Block
Any other Block
Any core set between 5th and 10th.

Any card banned in Legacy is banned.
Any card banned in a block format is banned.

Except without the banned lists.

I'm not sure what will be the best. Flash is an early contender, but possibly some sort of Will deck would be better? YWill DOES give you Duress (and possibly persecute). Trix has some awesome cards but not much good mana fixing - only Underground River I think. Flash (6th/Rav/Mir) really only gets Remand in terms of useful disruption. I guess that BR/BU split card from Dissension. AND BOB OMG but don't hit a Hulk!

[Anusien]

Rofl.  Right.

With every deck aiming to win early, I look at three factors:
1) Ability to disrupt other decks
2) Ability to win through disruption
3) Ability to reload.

[ErkBek]

Flash would be made up of 6th, Ravinca Block, and Time Spiral I'd think. In Time Spiral block somewhere there is a 1RB Sliver that gives all slivers haste, so you can still flash in the Sliver kill, plus you get the Pacts for goodness. God damn it.

Anyways, Harlequin's Ravager idea sounds sick, it might just be the way to go. I've got to think someone will build a Ravager deck with a little disruption that combo's out turn 3 consistantly.

Ritual Combo seems like it has 6 3 options:

Ice Age block, Saga, 6th - You'd have to figure out some sort of combo finish that's not tendrils. The problem with this cluster looks like it'd have a lot of dependency on Dark Ritual being your only real acceleration (other than maybe academy). These blocks would allow you to run FoW, Duress, Tinker, Jar, Academy, Will, Windfall, BS, and Vamp.

Ice Age, Onslaught, 6th - Scourge seems like a nice choice since you get Tendrils, Desire, Fetchlands, and Seething Song. So for mana acceleration you'll have essentially 12 Ritual effects, but you'll have to run an some really ugly manabase which might have a shot with Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, and Painlands. Is there any Chromatic Sphere like effect in these blocks? Otherwise casting Mind's Desire is really going to be tough. Sounds like you'd end up with Necro + Tendrils.dec

Saga, Onslaught, 5th/6th - Again, I think there will be a problem with the acceleration.

Tempest, Saga, 6th - Tempest gives you Lotus Petal and Mox Diamond to make Academy stupid. Saga gives you Ritual, Tinker, Jar, Windfall, and potentially Time Spiral or Frantic Search. You could even try running the Snap Faeries combo in here too. I'm not sure what the kill would be, probably Megrim + Draw 7's. 

Tempest, Onslaught, 5th - You've got Lotus Petal and Dark Ritual as the only accel, seems problematic.

Saga, Mirroden, 6th - This would be more of Tolarian Academy combo. Basically you'd run Chrome Mox, Artifact Lands, Rituals, Crop Rotation, Snap, and Cloud for mana. Mirroden gives you a ton of cheap artifact for academy obv, Saga gives you the best bombs in the game to play with all that mana, and 6th gives you the Tutors to tie it together. Anyone have ideas on how you'd actually want to go about winning with these cards? There has to be something that doesn't run Disciple of the Vault. Anyone?

[andrewpate]

Ice Age, Onslaught, 6th - Scourge seems like a nice choice since you get Tendrils, Desire, Fetchlands, and Seething Song.

Seething Song is actually from Mirrodin, so you would not have access to that unless you gave up the 6th tutors for 9th, which strikes me as a bad call.

As for a kill condition in Urza's/Mirrodin/6th, Myr Incubator saw some success at PT: New Orleans before Tinker was banned.  I'm sure it can be consistently activated by turn 3 for lethal+ (and frequently sooner), and the deck could fit a decent amount of disruption, at least 4xDuress.

What about Steve OMS-style Tinker, more an Accelerated Blue feel to it?  You could still be highly explosive with a quick Tinker into a Mindslaver activation via Metalworker (or some similar play), but that deck would also be able to take better advantage of Urza's Block's insane colorless-based mana acceleration in the form of not just Metalworker but also Grim Monolith and even Voltaic Key (and note that 6th brings Crystal Vein).  Metalworker/Staff of Domination is also possible.  You might even dip into some kind of Tinker/Stax with Smokestack, Goblin Welder, and Trinisphere, at which point it could be worth considering the switch to 5th, giving up Mystical Tutor for Mana Vault.  Vein, Mox, Trinisphere is at least as good an opening as Swamp, Ritual, Necropotence in this format.

[Matt]

By Dropping 5th dawn (loosing Cranial Plate) and picking up Saga you can make one beast of an Affinity deck (think pre-banning ... but with Tolarian and Time Spiral - the card).

Something in the Realm of:

4 Tolarian Acads
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnase
4 Blinkmoth Nexus

4 Dream's Grip / AEthervial (not sure which is a bigger mana-saver with Acad)
4 Chromatic Sphere

4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite / Ornithopter
2 Atog

4 Skullclamp
3 Toughtcast
3 Time Spiral

While this is a nice thought, really, wouldn't you rather use Tinker and Memory Jar? Oh baby!

Also: God dammmit, why is Tendrils of Agony in one of the WORST POSSIBLE BLOCKS for a Necro deck? Literally every other block except Champions and I guess Lorwyn gives the deck more. If only I could use Ice Age, Saga, AND Scourge, Necro would rule, but you have to choose a basic set, and 5th lacks many important tools Ice Age has.

[Harlequin]

Hrmm.... that makes it even more insane.  I really think that Saga + Mirrodin is going to be the way to go.  This is a port of the deck that Jer plays, and does well with in vintage!

4 Tolarian Acad
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Crystal Vien
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Dark Steel Citadel

4 Grim Monolith
4 Metal Worker

4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Myr Retriver
3 Frogmite
3 Staff of Domination
2 Triskellion

4 Skull Clamp
3 Memory Jar
3 Time Spiral
3 Trinisphere
3 Tinker

[Matt]

Trinisphere looks soooo bad there.

[Anusien]

Fairly certain you need something like 3Sphere to not autoscoop to combo.

[Nomad]

Did nobody else see the original Urza's Block constructed and type 2, before they pulled Academy and 5 other pieces?

Academy, Claws of Gix, Windfall, Time Spiral, Voltaic Key, Turnabout, Stroke

Before one adds Cloud of Faeries, Grim Monolith, Palinchron from Legacy.

How about 6th Ed with Ornithopter, Fountain of Youth and Mystical Tutor?

For type 2 Tempest block was legal at the time, with Mox Diamond and Lotus Petal...

[LordHomerCat]

Ya I mean honestly, you could probably play the old standard Jar decks with Tinker, Jar, Ritual, Petal, Mana Vault, Yawg Will, etc., just run the Buehler Jar deck essentially as is, with tweaks for the fact that we know how to build combo better nowadays.  Alternatively, you could run like mirrodin for like chrome mox or something, but I think lotus petal from Tempest is probably better there with Will and all.

[emidln]

In minor testing, 6th/Ravnica/TS Flash.dec with Firewake/Virulent x3 has been really dumb. With 4x Vamp/4x Mystical/Pact it's really hard to not go off turn 2 with Pact backup. Using Gemstone Caverns has allowed a suprising number of turn 1 kills. I've been running this list in testing:

// Lands
    1  Breeding Pool
    4  Watery Grave
    4  Gemstone Caverns
    4  Gemstone Mine
    4  City of Brass

// Creatures
    4  Street Wraith
    4  Simian Spirit Guide
    2  Firewake Sliver
    4  Virulent Sliver
    4  Protean Hulk

// Spells
    4  Mystical Tutor
    1  Wipe Away
    4  Remand
    4  Flash
    4  Summoner's Pact
    4  Pact of Negation
    4  Vampiric Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Breeding Pool
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 4  Tarmogoyf
SB: 4  Trygon Predator

[Matt]

Fairly certain you need something like 3Sphere to not autoscoop to combo.

Fairly certain it's too slow to matter anyway AND fucks your OWN combo AND you're playing 3 of a card you absolutely need to have in your opening hand to be any good
=
looks soo bad

[Harlequin]

I wouldn't really say that Trinisphere hurts your own combo.  It does kinda-sorta hurt the 3 frogmites ... but if you have {14} Flaoting does it really mater that Retriver costs instead of ?

Anyway, you're right, It doesn't really jib with cards like Crystal Vien and Grim Monolith ... because they are one-shotters.

However, there might be a decent arument for some sort of Tempest+Urza prison deck featureing: Multiple Triniphere, Sphere of Resistance, Wasteland,  Smokestacks, Welder, Multiple Jars, Intuition Maybe? AND along with Worker and Tolarian, you tack on  Petal and Anceint Tomb's for Accelleration.  Karn and/or Titan for your win.   If you add in 10th, you also get Crucible and Gemstone.