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Author Topic: Post MorningTide Extended Landstill  (Read 3659 times)
freakish777
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« on: January 14, 2008, 03:27:35 pm »

So, with Mutavault giving Extended a manland that isn't trash, I figured Landstill might actually be extremely good in Extended (especially with Aether Vial and Goblin Lackey not in that format).

Here's a list I'm considering:

//lands that don't make colors or cipt - 7
4 Mutavault
1 Faerie Conclave (I might drop this for another Ghost Quarter)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ghost Quarter (I might go for 2 is there's more Tron decks, etc)

//lands that make colors and don't suck - 16
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Watery Grave
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains

//removal - 11
4 Innocent Blood (this is obviously the slot I'm having the most trouble with, there really is no replacement for StP)
3 Damnation
2 Decree of Pain (I'm not sure I want this, cycling under Standstill, especially against DoJ is hot, but there's a ton of 3+ toughness guys in this format).
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Engineered Explosives

//Counters - 14
4 Counterspell
4 Remand
3 Spell Snare
3 Force Spike

//Utility - 3
2 Cunning Wish
1 Crucible of Worlds

//Big Wins - 2
2 DoJ

//Draw - 7
4 Standstill
3 FoF



//SB
1 Pact of Negation
1 Spell Snare
1 FoF
1 Smother
1 Condemn
3 Stifle
2 Disenchant
1 Extirpate
4 Tormod's Crypt

Idea's?  I figure with the 14 Counterspells you should have a fighting chance against any deck that doesn't have the nut draw every hand (except Ichorid, hence 4 Tormod's in the Board).

Other possibilities:

Condemns over Innocent Bloods?  If this is the case, I'd probably want to run Wrath instead of Damnation and cut Decree of Pain for more DoJ/OStone/EE.

More Crucibles?  No Wasteland in this format though makes me skeptical of how good it is.  I do want at least 1, but more than that seems subpar without Wasteland recursion. 

Tsabo's Decree as Goblin hate?  Seems subpar as Goblins isn't as big a part of the metagame.

Stifle's main over Force Spike?  I think Force Spike is probably more revelant in this format.

Temple of the False God?  I could see this as being more worth while if I were running cards like Angel and Dragon, but I'm not.  I know some pros like it though.

Am I blatantly missing any cards?
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ErkBek
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2008, 08:45:24 pm »

Decree of Pain looks pretty terrible in here, but other than that the deck looks alright. How about playing a couple Vedlaken Shackles to help control midgame creatures? Shackles is really, really good.

Condemn and Ghastly Demise are about the closest thing they've printed to STP. Condemn not hitting Birds (and some Confidants) might make it unusable.

Hurkyl's Recall needs to join your list of wish targets.

Is there a reason you're not playing Cryptic Command?

Doran and Counterbalance have set the bar pretty high for deckbuilding in extended. While lots of decks are viable at the moment, there really isn't much in terms of pure control decks. Even the Jugan blue decks feel a lot like fish and not MUC.

EDIT: Teferi's Response might be a hot card to protect your mutavaults from removal.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 01:19:39 am by kobefan » Logged

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freakish777
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2008, 10:19:27 am »

Decree of Pain looks pretty terrible in here

Yeah, the real reason I wanted it, was for Tron decks cycling larger Decrees under my Standstill.  Guess it might be better to drop the Conclave for another Ghost Quarter if that's what I'm worried about.


Quote
How about playing a couple Vedlaken Shackles to help control midgame creatures? Shackles is really, really good.

Yep, missed Shackles, seems like an easy swap, 2 Decree of Pain for 2 Shackles.

Quote
Condemn and Ghastly Demise are about the closest thing they've printed to STP. Condemn not hitting Birds (and some Confidants) might make it unusable.
 

From what I've heard, Gaea's Might Get There is seeing a lot less play, and that's the only deck where I fear an Innocent Blood just won't get the job done.  Demise not hitting Confidant (and potentially not hitting Goyf/Doran early) seems like the incorrect call. 

Perhaps Condemn is the way to go.  As an estimate in terms of percentages, how often do you think will Condemn be better than Innocent Blood (obv, this makes it Wrath and more White lands)?


Quote
Hurkyl's Recall needs to join your list of wish targets.

Missed Hurk's, forgot it was recently reprinted.

Quote
Is there a reason you're not playing Cryptic Command?

I'm 3 colors with atleast 5 lands that tap for colorless, and probably 7 that tap for colorless (or CIPT), and I don't think Command comes online soon enough.  Remand seems to be much more relevant.  I considered Command as a Wish target, but figured the 4th Spell Snare and Pact would be Wished for more often (paying 4 to counter a spell seems more worthwhile than 7 for Counter + some other effects, paying 8 over 2 turns seems better as well, although Pact may become the blue Shoal or Commandeer, Commandeering a Slaver/Gifts/FoF/hardcast enchantment from Ideal/Deed/Counterbalance/Crucible/etc seems absurd).

Quote
Doran and Counterbalance have set the bar pretty high for deckbuilding in extended. While lots of decks are viable at the moment, there really isn't much in terms of pure control decks. Even the Jugan blue decks feel a lot like fish and not MUC.

With so many aggro control decks in Extended, I figured a MUC-like deck that can also control the board should have an edge (since straight up aggro seems to be declining).  Additionally, it's not like I'm 100% control after I Wrath/Damn, 2 damage a turn isn't a whole lot, but it's a steady change as opposed to the MUC decks long ago that just dropped Morphling on turn 9, or had Magpies as the only kill conditions.  I think between Shackles, Vaults, and Decrees, I should have enough pressure to make the time spent setting up worthwhile. 

Quote
EDIT: Teferi's Response might be a hot card to protect your mutavaults from removal.

Hmm, this will depend on how many Blastminer's I see, I guess.  Blastminer being a big reason for the 6 basics.


Perhaps I should be trying to fit Countertop in here and taking OStone out.  Thoughts on that (seeing as how doing so would require some heavy cuts)?


Revision:

//lands that don't make colors - 7
4 Mutavault
1 Academy Ruins
2 Ghost Quarter

//lands that make colors - 16
1 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Watery Grave
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains

//removal - 11
4 Condemn
3 Wrath
2 Shackles
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Engineered Explosives

//Counters - 14
4 Counterspell
4 Remand
3 Spell Snare
3 Force Spike

//Utility - 3
2 Cunning Wish
1 Crucible of Worlds

//Big Wins - 2
2 DoJ

//Draw - 7
4 Standstill
3 FoF



//SB
1 Commandeer
1 Spell Snare
1 FoF
1 Smother
3 Stifle
2 Disenchant
1 Extirpate
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 12:13:46 pm by freakish777 » Logged

DoubleDrain
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 12:53:11 pm »

seems like -1 force spike, +1 spell snare might be good. all the popular decks at the moment run great 2cc spells, and spike (when not playing the 4-pack to get to the ~ 40% chance to have in opener) is weak later on, while snare will still counter the spell.

I love the spike, but in a deck like this that gives the opponent 29 turns (arbitrary #) before it wins, they'll probably have the 1 extra mana by the time they break the standstill or whatever...

just my 2 cents.
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freakish777
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 01:40:18 pm »

seems like -1 force spike, +1 spell snare might be good.

Unfortunately, I want 1 Spell Snare in the board to Wish for.

If people are thinking moving the 4th Snare to the main over a Force Spike is the right call, what do I put in the board?  Pact?  I think it's very likely I'm going to be Wishing for an answer turn 4/5 and wanting the be able to play the spell I wish for the same turn (Wishing for Cryptic Command and holding it over your opponent's head seems like a poor play).

Thanks.
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DoubleDrain
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 02:15:49 pm »

wish for snare is OK, but kinda situational. seems like the lack of bounce and any hard counters (or even something like delay? delay their spell then drop standstill..) to wish for might result in some bad situations. the more I think about it, turn 3 wish for cryptic command might not be bad...if you can get UUU online early enough. if so, it also reduces the # of slots in the board, acting as bounce and counter.

here is a list I have been tinkering around with. It is mono U, runs no landstill or wish, but it is still in the same flavor as your build; not trying to hijack your thread, rather provide a different spin on a classic deck style (U-based control). by the way, I love the commandeer. I played that in type 2 and it was often great!

4 cryptic command
4 counterspell
4 force spike
4 spell snare
4 ancestral vision
4 sensei's top
4 vedelken shackles
3 counterbalance
3 spire golem
2 venser, shaper badass

4 mutavault
5 fetch
15 island

thanks
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 02:25:37 pm by DoubleDrain » Logged

The Colorado Crew

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ErkBek
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A strong play.

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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 08:59:46 pm »

4 cryptic command
4 counterspell
4 force spike
4 spell snare
4 ancestral vision
4 sensei's top
4 vedelken shackles
3 counterbalance
3 spire golem
2 venser, shaper badass

4 mutavault
5 fetch
15 island

Without TFK's Spire Golem seems like a poor choice when you could easily splash green for Tarmogoyf. Considering they cost about the same mana to cast I don't see why not play Goyf.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 12:39:57 pm »

Kobefan,

I have recently added thirst instead of ancestral, which I like much more. I also cut 3 island for 2 seat of the synod and 1 chrome mox (hate that card disadvantage, but love the speed!). The deck needs something like Guile (r.i.p. morphling) to just end the game quicker than golem or mutavault...

Goyf would be nice also, if you wanted to go in the non-Mono U direction...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 12:46:08 pm by DoubleDrain » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2008, 03:45:05 pm »

Personally I never found Ghost Quarter to be a very good tactic against Tron. The UG Tron decks run Loam so they are hardly effected by it and the UW Tron decks usually run a few basic lands (UG Tron usually too), so you lose a lot of tempo losing all your land drops to Ghost Quarter and they fetch out a couple of basics and build their manabase untill they reach like 6 to 8 lands and signets to drop a big artifact and you lose unless you have Counterspell for it. It's not like Ghost Quarter is bad in the Tron matchup but it's not as good as you would want it to be. Anyway, if you do insist on playing Ghost Quarter you could consider Flagstones of Trokair.

But I think if you really want to beat Tron, Ghost Quarter stalls them a bit at most and you really need to kill them in the extended time frame that Ghost Quarter gives you.

Anyway, cool idea but be wary of Treetop Village in the Doran Rock decks and also Mutavault will become a staple in Extended, so I'm not really sure if Standstill + Mutavault is that good in the post Morningtide enviroment.

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UberNewb
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2008, 02:00:40 am »

You can sacrifice a Mutavault to Voidmage Prodigy to counter a spell. You can't do that with Mishra's Factory! Razz Very Happy
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