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Author Topic: [Deck] Drain Tendrils  (Read 81323 times)
RaleighNCTourneys
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« Reply #150 on: July 26, 2008, 10:42:00 pm »

Suggest a DT list that is as powerful as versions with TFK and then we will have a start to this discussion. Then show me one that doesn't roll over to a Tormod's Crypt and you will have arrived at the same place I and others are already at.

TFK doesn't only shine in the two scenarios you listed. It can shine in decks with many artifacts to pitch (post-board DT in quite a few matchups). It also shines when it supports an deck's engine-- in this case AK. Without TFK, DT must run at least one more Intuition. This makes the deck even more vulnerable to graveyeard hate and puts in more cards that aren't true draw spells. TFK is a solid and reliable true draw spell. It doesn't rely on other cards resolving (Intu-->AK) and even supports another draw engine during its normal course of play.

Also, how does DT not fit into your 2 scenarios?

1) Decks that have a mid-game (like Control Slaver), and

2) Deck that have specific cards that they need to place in their graveyard (also Control Slaver).

check... and check
« Last Edit: July 26, 2008, 10:50:55 pm by RaleighNCTourneys » Logged

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« Reply #151 on: August 03, 2008, 10:17:54 am »

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36266.0

...it's nice to know that I'm not hallucinating all of this Smile
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« Reply #152 on: August 03, 2008, 10:45:40 am »

I don't understand why anyone would play this deck.  It's more Yawgmoth's Will dependent than Intuition Tendrils was.

I have to definitely say I was 100% wrong about this.  I seriously needed flame-retardant gloves to handle the hot sauce that was my deck at Vintage Champs.
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« Reply #153 on: August 05, 2008, 06:38:24 pm »

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36284.0

I would not be surprised if we saw Strategic Planning make an appearance in the Dark Ritual decks at the next SCG>

Already working on it.

The combo version of this is basically looking like a midrange control/combo that uses Planning to stack the graveyard towards a fatal Will, possibly abusing Cabal Ritual and Recoup. I think I can probably come up with something that does Drain Tendrils' job but more efficiently. More on this later.

Has anybody tested this, yet.  It's just bonkers...  Strategic Planning = Ban me now!
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« Reply #154 on: August 06, 2008, 02:44:29 pm »

Shame the thing is 100 dollars now lol. I was looking forward to slowly working the number of proxies down, not up. Just off the top of my head, I guess I would replace Ponder, Scroll, and FOF for 3 SP in the current UBr build. Or would you suggest a different configuration? Sounds busted...
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« Reply #155 on: August 06, 2008, 08:11:12 pm »

I don't understand why anyone would play this deck.  It's more Yawgmoth's Will dependent than Intuition Tendrils was.

I have to definitely say I was 100% wrong about this.  I seriously needed flame-retardant gloves to handle the hot sauce that was my deck at Vintage Champs.

I would be very keen to hear your opinions both for and against your build from the nats.

I quite enjoy this list, but often struggle to understand why to play this over TPS or Long.
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« Reply #156 on: August 11, 2008, 10:43:45 pm »

it's really depends on weather you prefer Control or not, but I really obliterated most of my matches.  My maindeck was 100% correct, but my sideboard was a little rough.   You MUST maindeck some duress in this meta.
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« Reply #157 on: April 07, 2010, 11:33:15 pm »

Hey everyone, this deck got second place in a big tournament recently, and I was hoping to restart discussion on the topic of Drain Tendrils.  This list stood out to me for two reasons: (1) it has 3x Jace the Mindsculptor maindeck, a card I would think was terribly slow for the archetype, and (2), there's no mox pearl.  I thought these decks always ran as much fast mana as possible.  Decklist courtesy of Matt Elias' article on SCG. 

Drain Tendrils
Suggested by Jeremy Beaver on 2010-03-28 as a potential deck for Vintage
As written about in http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/19045_The_Long_Winding_Road_Playing_in_the_MUD.html

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Enchantments
1 Necropotence

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
3 Dark Ritual
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
2 Impulse
3 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Library Of Alexandria
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Greater Gargadon
3 Yixlid Jailer
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Massacre
1 Tinker
1 Island
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #158 on: April 08, 2010, 05:06:45 pm »


Drain Tendrils
Suggested by Jeremy Beaver on 2010-03-28 as a potential deck for Vintage
As written about in http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/19045_The_Long_Winding_Road_Playing_in_the_MUD.html

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Enchantments
1 Necropotence

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
3 Dark Ritual
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
2 Impulse
3 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Library Of Alexandria
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Greater Gargadon
3 Yixlid Jailer
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Massacre
1 Tinker
1 Island

That deck is incredibly slow and painstaking.  IDK how Jeremy won games with it.  I tested it, and hated it.
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« Reply #159 on: April 11, 2010, 07:18:24 pm »

I'm unclear on how the drain tendrils deck generates a large enough storm count without rituals.  Could someone give me some examples of plays that lead to the kill?

Thanks so much everyone for putting up with my newbie question.
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personalbackfire
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« Reply #160 on: April 11, 2010, 07:31:28 pm »

Well it depends on your list at large, but alot of the time it involves Black lotus and Yawgmoths will, then replying Lotus and whatever stuff is in your graveyard, then tutoring up a tendrils or ETW.

The other common way in Drain Tendrils lists is playing a few mox, playing a bounce spell like Chain of Vapor, or Hurkyls recall to up storm then winning.
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« Reply #161 on: April 11, 2010, 07:31:54 pm »

I'm unclear on how the drain tendrils deck generates a large enough storm count without rituals.  Could someone give me some examples of plays that lead to the kill?

Thanks so much everyone for putting up with my newbie question.

Way back in Urza's they printed this little doozy named "Yawgmoth's Will"  it tends to get there Wink
Also, just playing out your moxen and hurkyls/rebuild to play em all again
Or engaging in a counter-war with your opponent and letting them up the storm by 1-4
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ristoman
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« Reply #162 on: April 12, 2010, 10:00:00 am »

That deck is incredibly slow and painstaking.  IDK how Jeremy won games with it.  I tested it, and hated it.

I agree. I'd actually consider running the Intuition / AK engine over Jace and the Impulses. I'm also not sure about the 3 Rituals / 3 Mana Drains package... It feels like this deck wants to play control and combo at the same time, and does neither all too well.

EDIT:
I'm unclear on how the drain tendrils deck generates a large enough storm count without rituals.  Could someone give me some examples of plays that lead to the kill?

Thanks so much everyone for putting up with my newbie question.

It's been addressed by a few posts above me, however I'd like to remind you not to put this deck on the same level as TPS in terms of aggressiveness. This deck plays very differently, taking the control role for as long as possible, and exploiting the huge amount of draw and filter available. I hardly find myself making long calculations of mana and storm count, the general plan is to slow down the game long enough for it to 'make sense' to Tendrils out. Naturally, this is not always the case, and you might find yourself in a tight spot and take some risks by stepping on the gas, but more often than not you can sit back, counter some bombs and draw / tutor EOT every turn. The momentum you generate will reach critical mass at some point and autopilot will kick in FTW.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 06:06:10 pm by ristoman » Logged
Tempus
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« Reply #163 on: July 15, 2010, 06:32:16 am »


Drain Tendrils
Suggested by Jeremy Beaver on 2010-03-28 as a potential deck for Vintage
As written about in http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/19045_The_Long_Winding_Road_Playing_in_the_MUD.html

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Enchantments
1 Necropotence

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
3 Dark Ritual
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
2 Impulse
3 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Empty The Warrens
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Library Of Alexandria
3 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Greater Gargadon
3 Yixlid Jailer
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Massacre
1 Tinker
1 Island

That deck is incredibly slow and painstaking.  IDK how Jeremy won games with it.  I tested it, and hated it.

Same here. It feels like a bad Control deck and a bad TPS deck at once...


But DrainTendrils shouldn't be too bad of a choice:

Friend of mine is playing this:

Quote
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Cephalid Coliseum

1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Spell Pierce
1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Repeal
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Intuition
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Brainstorm
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Frantic Search
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Tendrils of Agony

What do you think?
It just plays draw spells and counters which sounds pretty good for DT...
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« Reply #164 on: January 12, 2011, 10:09:13 pm »

GushBond

1 Fastbond
(1)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Gush
(21)

4 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Imperial Seal
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Tendrills of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
(15)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
(9)

1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Island
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
(14)

((60))

A very good deck to test out for all the storm players out there. it doesent run rituals, but delive me the deck is really fast.

We discourage users from simply posting decklists with little explanation.  I think that rings especially true where, as here, the list doesn't even fit within the thread topic (drain Tendrils), there are other active topics better matching the deck, and you have actually already posted the list in those other threads (your ongoing posts in the gushbond thread).   Please conform your posts to the site rules.  -Eastman
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 11:13:46 am by Eastman » Logged
Ufactor
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« Reply #165 on: March 25, 2012, 07:04:34 pm »

Has anybody have experience with the new-ish AK-Tendrils lists?  Does anybody have any commentary on how they would work in the context of a US metagame?  Drawing seven cards in a turn, playing five basic islands, multiple bounce spells and Tendrils see seems like fun times against MUD...

I think there's real potential here.  Snapcaster seems more abuse-able here than in any existing list, e.g. Bobcaster Control, Standstill, etc.  Gush and Gush-based combo control decks seem to be slowly going away.  The format seems to be populated with slower decks and looser draw engines.  Is it advantageous to dust off some previously out-moded draw engines, like AK??

For Reference:

Quote
LMV 11.03.2012
- 28 players
1. Jaime Cano
playing Robadeck

Maindeck (60):
Spells (45):
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Intuition
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Mana Drain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
2 Repeal
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Time Walk

Lands (15):
3 Flooded Strand
5 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea


Sideboard (15):
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Chain of Vapor
2 Dismember
3 Duress
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Ravenous Trap
1 Tinker
1 Yixlid Jailer
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« Reply #166 on: March 25, 2012, 08:18:20 pm »

 Tested DT very recently. At every point I coupled storm out vault key was a better option.
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« Reply #167 on: March 25, 2012, 11:29:07 pm »

Quote
At every point I coupled storm out vault key was a better option

I've been testing this recently and my experience is different.  Granted, my playstyle with this deck may be different than others.  I tend to play this strategy very deliberately.  In other words, for the majority of matchups I'm trying to reach a pretty developed mid-game and have complete control.

In circumstances like that you want as few dead cards as possible.  One of my favorite things about snapcaster is that it allows this deck to run well without Tinker>Bot.  This allows more space and design flexibility and in this metagame you certainly need it.

Quote
any commentary on how they would work in the context of a US metagame?

I'm not close to a final list yet, but I can characterize what I've found:

Hard Slots
25 Mana/Preordain
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
1 Chain of Vapor
1 'bounce'
4 AK
3 Intuition (if you had a really good reason you can cut to 2, but these lists benefit from intuition much more than the old lists)
3 Snapcaster Mage
7 ARecall, TWalk, BStorm, MScroll, VampT, DemT, YWill
1 Win Condition

This leaves 8 slots for metagame arbitrage and additional win conditions, which is a healthy amount.
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« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2012, 12:36:51 am »

I actually sleeved the list from Luca Luvino

http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1568

and tested it versus a control list, and I have got to say I really missed playing DT.  The list really abuses Snapcaster Mage and the Intuition - AK engine.

My only fear is my AKs being surgically extracted or extirpated before I even get to use them.  With this, does it make sense to include Mental Missteps in the list versus Spell Pierce?

What do you guys think about the Tendrils of Agony kill versus addiing in the Vault-Key Combo?

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« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2012, 01:06:34 am »

I have watched the success of these Snapcaster Intuition/AK lists in Italy for quite a while now and I really like these builds. What kept me from playing them myself is, that these list seems pretty vulnerable to Extirpate effects, Nihil Spellbombs, Remora, Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Traps, which are pretty often played in my meta, and doesnt't have any reliable alternativ win route to fall back on, if they face too many cards like these.
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« Reply #170 on: March 26, 2012, 09:17:05 am »

Quote
vulnerable to Extirpate effects, Nihil Spellbombs, Remora, Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Traps

I'd say this is mostly accurate except for the last two.  Because the draw engine is so redundant, cards like Flusterstorm and Trap are relevant, but they don't swing the match.  The deck is actually pretty resilient to grave hate except for extirpate.  Even when these effects go off, you draw 1 off AK.  Tempo-wise it's important, but you often still cantrip into more threats.  Regardless, these are cards that are minor players right now compare with Pridemage, Misstep and StP.

While the card interactions here are powerful, this is definitely a metagame deck at the moment.  Ie, no one is going to effectively convince you that this is more powerful than gushbond.  However, it is better positioned in a format full of workshops and bears.
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« Reply #171 on: May 16, 2012, 08:39:16 pm »

If the graveyard hate increases, perhaps Tinker-Bot is an alternative win condition.
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« Reply #172 on: May 16, 2012, 08:51:14 pm »

-snip-
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« Reply #173 on: September 01, 2012, 11:01:34 pm »

      I recently started playing magic again, so I played against whatever decks I could, and reviewed decklists to attempt too build a deck for a certain metagame. I tested vault combo decks, and tried lotus cobra gush as well as the deck that came in first at the vintage championships this year.  I noticed there were a lot of decks that were combining combos. I figured I would try a vault combo in a drain tendrils deck designed to play against a workshop heavy environment. This is not a beat all speed deck, or an attempt at making the best deck to ever see play, but just an attempt to make a successful drain tendrils vault combo deck. Let me know what you think about the list, or how it worked out for you.

Lands
3 - Underground Sea
3 - Tropical Island
2 - Island
4 - Polluted Delta
2 - Flooded Strand
1 - Tolarian Academy

Creatures
2 - Snapcaster Mage
1 - Blightsteel Colossus

Blue Spells
1 - Tinker
1 - Time walk
1 - Ancestral Recall
1 - Rebuild
1 - Hurkyl's recall
1 - Mystical Tutor
1 - Merchant Scroll
1 - Brainstorm
1 - Intuition
2 - Flusterstorm
4 - Mana Drain
4 - Force of Will
4 - Gush
2 - Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Black Spells
1 - Yawgmoth's Will
1 - Tendrils of Agony
1 - Demonic Tutor
1 - Vampiric Tutor

Green Spells
1 - Fastbond

Artifacts
1 - Black Lotus
1 - Mox Emerald
1 - Mox Pearl
1 - Mox Ruby
1 - Mox Sapphire
1 - Mox Jet
1 - Sol Ring
1 - lotus Petal
1 - Mana Crypt
1 - Tormod's Crypt
1 - Voltaic Key
1 - Time Vault

Sideboard
4 - leyline of the Void
2 - Surgical Extraction
1 - Engineered Explosives
1 - Grafdigger's Cage
3 - Natures Claim
3 - Baleful Strix
1 - Vendillion Clique

      The games I have played went well.  I played the counterspells only to counter what was an immediate threat causing the game to be drawn out, and using my bounce spells for the tendrils. The only deck I have played that seemed hard to control was version of drain tendrils. Any of the games I lost to the deck could have been saved with tormod's crypt, so I added it not only for that deck, but because It can help in nearly any match up. Fish decks, or delver decks seem to be just fast enough to stop most drain decks I used, so I put engineered explosives and Baleful Strix in the s/b.  Let me know of any changes, or if the deck just doesn't have what it takes.
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« Reply #174 on: September 01, 2012, 11:59:26 pm »

I think you need 2-3 Mental Missteps maindeck somewhere. Maybe cut a couple Mana Drains and the Tormod's Crypt. Imperial Seal is also another card I would strongly consider.

Gush doesn't play well with Mana Drain very often, so it's harder to consistently keep UU up.
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« Reply #175 on: September 02, 2012, 01:30:41 am »

I have played some more, and I agree with you. I keep running into mana problems with gush, and then not having any mana for the drains. How does drain tendrils hold up against other drain or gush decks? What are the workshop matches like? What are its bad matches? It would be tought to play against shops without red, or repeals.

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« Reply #176 on: September 07, 2012, 02:05:50 pm »

I have a few comments, because I have been consistently testing various Drain Tendrils lists:

#1)  Tinker/Time Walk seems like the win condition of choice to me now that we have BSC since that is a win now option.
I am not sure if Vault/Key belong in the deck or not, but I think Tinker->BSC definitely belongs.  There may be no need for an additional win condition since you can just beat with Snapcasters if need be.

#2)  Mana Leak has been working out well in terms of extra counters.  Basically I have been testing using 8-9x (Fact, Snapcaster, Mana Leak) in various combinations.  If you run 0 Spell Pierce and 0 Mental Misstep then you relevant 1cc counters are 1 Ancestral Recall and 1 Brainstorm.  If your opponent counters Mana or a top deck Tutor then celebrate.  Mana Leak is frequently available on turn 1 and thus fills the Brainstorm Gap and the vast majority of the deck is instant speed so you can keep Mana Leak up and EOT play draw spells.  Midirection is an option, but you will want to Misdirect Recall a lot and then can just Misstep their own Recall which weakens Misdirection considerably.
Against Shop, Leak is of course better than Misstep.  Leak is fairly strong against Gush decks that do not have Fastbond in play because they undevelop their mana base leaving Leak relevant the whole game rather than just the early game.

#3)  Fact or Fiction is strong in this deck.  It is a bit slow as is Snapcaster, but there is just so much synergy.  Basically Fact helps you get AKs 2,3 4 so much faster.  It loads the yard for Yawg.  It can get replayed with Snapcaster Mage.  Also you can sit with Fact mana up and either Snapcaster->(Leak or Drain) or if they play nothing on their turn EOT Fact.
  
EDIT:
#4)  I have been struggling over what to do with bounce.  I have been running just 1 Chain of Vapor.  The main advantage of this is that Chalice@1 is so awful against this deck that I rarely want to bounce it and Chain handles everything else.  Also Chain can bounce multiple Snapcasters which is strong in the late game.  The disadvantage is that there is no mass bounce vs Shops and in a BSC BSC mirror if I Chain them I get my own BSC bounced.  I could run more bounce, but then I would need to drop Mana Leaks and they have been so good.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:35:58 am by meadbert » Logged

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« Reply #177 on: September 11, 2012, 02:51:37 pm »

I have done a more testing and here is the list I would play right now:

5 Fetchlands
6th Fetchland or Cephalid Coliseum
4 Underground Sea
4 Island (1 Snow Covered is fine)
1 Tolarian Academy

10 Artifact Mana
1 Blightsteel Colossus

1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
0 Vampiric Tutor

2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tinker
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
2 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Intuition (Yes 4)
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Mana Drain
3 Mana Leak
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor (Not sure this is best bounce spell)
1 Mystical Tutor

Sideboard:  (Obviously meta dependant)
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Hurkyl's Recall

The loss of Thirst for Knowledge is bad and makes this deck hungry at the 3cc spot.  This partly explains 4 Intuitions.  The other factor is that Intuitioning for 2xSnapcaster + Yawg is so powerful that extra Intuitions are rarely problematic.

Fact or Fiction is a huge bomb, but it competes with Snapcaster as a lategame card and you just cannot put more than 4 in without running into too many slow hands.

I got down to 61 cards and spent a while trying to decide between Vampiric Tutor, Mana Leak #3 and Land #15.
Basically, what it comes down to Mental Misstep.  It used to be hands with Fetch/Sea + Vamp were keepable because I could Vamp for Recall on turn 1 and then run out Recall on turn 2.  Without Misstep or Misdirection to protect my own Recall, it becomes unlikely I can actually resolve Recall so Vamp just loss me card advantage and I might get stuck mana shafted.  In those situations I would much rather have a second land.
Also with only 1 Brainstorm having the extra land is more important so lands are better.
Once I ran 15 Lands I felt very comfortable with the 3rd Mana Leak.  Usually you have Land + Mox on turn 1 and when you do not you are likely to have 2 lands.  Those 2 Land, 0 Mox hands are where Drain is golden and for similar reasons Mana Leak is also strong there.

Another questionable card is Merchant Scroll.  Basically I realize that Recall is likely to get counterd, but I am okay losing so tempo and Mana Scrolling in that case and Scroll also finds the 4th AK and so many other cards.

Intuitions can function like Gifts #2-#5 in that they are win now cards in the late game.  Basically this deck develops its mana very quickly and being able to Intuition for 2xSnapcaster + Yawg is super powerful.

Coliseum obviously hurts the Stax matchup, but without only 2 Brainstorm + Thirst for Knowledge it is nice to have a 3rd way to shuffle Colossus.  Depending on the meta I would be tempted to add the 6th fetch for safety against Wasteland, but I would not add Library over Coliseum.
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« Reply #178 on: September 11, 2012, 07:40:53 pm »

Are you planning on winning with your sole Tinker bot or 2 x snapcaster beats or is there a tendrils missing from your list?
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« Reply #179 on: September 12, 2012, 02:51:34 am »

The loss of Thirst for Knowledge is bad and makes this deck hungry at the 3cc spot.  This partly explains 4 Intuitions.  The other factor is that Intuitioning for 2xSnapcaster + Yawg is so powerful that extra Intuitions are rarely problematic.

Fact or Fiction is a huge bomb, but it competes with Snapcaster as a lategame card and you just cannot put more than 4 in without running into too many slow hands.

Why not utilize the Gushbond engine and Jace instead of a clunky mix of Intuition/AK and FoF:

-4 Accumulated Knowledge
-4 Intuition
-2 Fact or Fiction
-1 Underground Sea
-1 Island

+1 Fastbond
+4 Gush
+2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
+1 Tendrils of Agony
+1 Timetwister
+1 Vampiric Tutor
+2 Tropical Island

You get the raw power/speed of Gushbond and Jace, the return of Vampiric with a few more juicy targets (Fastbond, Jace, Timetwister), and a lower mana curve.  The addition of green allows you to support some sb hate like Claims too, while only requiring a single additional nonbasic.  Oh, and the missing Tendrils.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 02:55:38 am by bluemage55 » Logged
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