Rbg Goblins

[ReAnimator]

I'm sure everyone has been testing some sort of goblin deck in their spare time as Earwig Squad is obviously really fun in T1.

This is the list i've been working on and i would like some feedback. I am in no way an expert on goblins, so some of these ideas may have been tried before or may just be terrible but i thought they would be interesting to try out.

I'm not really a big fan of the traditional goblin engine in T1 at the moment, a lot of the usual guys that have been strong in the past just seem sooo underpowered in the current metagame. I know this sort of flies in the face of conventional wisdom but i really think some of the traditional goblin guys are just bad right now.

Here is the list i'm trying out, and i'll talk about some of the theory behind my ideas after.

3 Fanatics
4 Lackeys
1 Skirk prospector
4 Piledrivers
3 Tin street hooligans
4 Earwig squad
1 Gempalm incinerator

3 Mogg war marshal
1 Stingscourger
3 Matron
2 Ringleader
2 Warchief
1 Warren Weirding
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Skullclamp

1 lotus
3 on colour moxes
1 Solring
1 Mana Crypt

1 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
8 Red Fetches
3 Badlands
2 Taiga
2 Mountains

SB
3 Extirpate
3 Red elemental blast (possibly AEther vial, or cabal slaver)
2 Shattering spree
2 Krosan Grip
1 cabal therapy
1 stingscourger
1 skullclamp
2 ZoZu the punisher

I know it looks weird and it maybe bad but i'm just trying to think outside the box a bit as the traditional versions aren't really cutting it. These numbers aren't drastically different just a little bit cheaper on the mana costs, and playing with a little bit more disruption.

2 Ringleaders
To me these just seem sort of slow, and often worse than a skullclamp. I still want a few to lackey out or to tutor for with a matron, but a lot of the time these just sit in my hand when a 4 of.

2 Warchiefs
Call me crazy but i'm just not that big a fan of this guy. He is hard to cast at RR1, you never really want to shut off your tin streets, and with the decreased focus on the 4 and 3 drops having your costs reduced just isn't that big a deal for me. He is still good if you have a clamp out so i want access to a few i just don't want the full boat, 2/2's for 3 just don't seem that exciting in this format if they don't have a game altering effect (like magus and to a lesser extent mindcensor). The haste provided is often a non issue and does nothing to help your earwigs.

3 Matron
I find this card horribly clunky sometimes, but tutoring is still really good and necessary often enough. I like this a lot better since i put some clamps and therapies in here, as it isn't just a 1/1 dork on the table anymore. There aren't that many bullets in here anymore, but you really don't want extras of the removal guys instead, as they are sometimes dead. I think if you could predict the meta perfectly and know whether it was right to have all your removal in the board or more maindeck you could probably cut these all together, but as it is now thats just not possible.

3 Mogg War Marshals
The WTF card of the list. This guy may end up being crap, but in T2 and Ext. this guy really pulls his weight. He can hold off a huge creature for many turns, he helps you swarm the board so you can connect with prowl, if your opponent has blockers, and finally he is just ridiculous with a clamp in play or a therapy in the yard. I can see him being worthwhile against flash, dryads, goyfs, juggernauts, tanglewires and so on, we'll see if testing bears this out or not.

4 Lackeys
I've actually been really unimpressed with this guy. Since i have less big casting costs he often isn't really accelerating me that much, and he doesn't have any synergy with Earwig or Tin Street. That being said he is still hideously powerful when you get him going, if i cut back more on the larger CC's i might just switch this to goblin vandal, to really max out the disruption.

3 Mogg Fanatic
I think there are enough Confidant's, Welders, Flash decks and dredge decks out there that this guy is worthwhile in the main right now, more so than vandal.

Sol ring and Mana Crypt
These may seem a little out of place with the reduced casting costs in here, but that has been off set by the addition of skullclamp, and ear wig obviously.

Things not in the list, and things i want to try out;

No AEther vials
I just dont think these are fast enough or relevant in enough matches right now. Maybe i'm wrong, I could see them in the sideboard over REB's just because the vial can be relevant vs stax as well as control. These just don't have a lot of synergy with Tin Street and Ear Wig

ZoZu the punisher
Maybe this is just too cute, but he seems like a good guy against Gush, that may be too narrow an application to deserve slots but i think it is worth trying out. I would board this in against things like fish and Dawn of the Dead as well just to help push through that extra damage and shut down loams or crucibles.

Cabal Slaver
I haven't got a chance to try this out yet but it seems like it could be a potent weapon vs low creature decks like Drain based decks and combo. Sort of a dimir cutpurse role player. Again this may be too cute, but i can also see it being quite a beating in the right circumstances.
(for reference since it is obscure:
Cabal Slaver
Human Cleric 2B
2/1
Whenever a Goblin deals combat damage to a player, that player discards a card.)

No graveyard hate.
Yawg wills are at an all time low right now, and with squad and therapy you still have lots of opportunities to shut them down. Also vs ichorid you have a lot of self sacrificing creatures, skullclamps and burn that it shouldn't be that much of an issue to keep their bridges contained. Vs Welders you again have removal, ear wigs, and fanatics to keep the graveyard damage to a minimum.

This is really just a lot of food for thought, i don't test on MWS or anything so this is probably a little rough around the edges and needs some refinement.
Any feed back is appreciated.

/I'll post this on SCG as well.

[Shimster]

Rbg Vial Goblins

// Lands (19)
4 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Strip Mine

// Creatures (31)
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Earwig Squad
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Stingscourger
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Siege-Gang Commander

// Spells (10)
4 AEther Vial
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

// Sideboard (15)
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Krosan Grip
2 Artifact Mutation
1 Stingscourger

Wort, Boggart Auntie provides an amazing recursion engine. In my opinion, 3 Squads are enough, as one in your first seven cards should be the way to go.

The sideboard is focused on beating storm combo, GAT, Oath and Staxx, as they are the major forces in my metagame.

Your list looks very strange, though. No AEther Vials in a field full of GAT, 2 Warchiefs, 2 Ringleaders, 2 Strips ... What consists your actual testing gauntlet of?

[bebe]

Some interesting choices Andrew ... I do like Earwigs and would also use four of them. I'm sure you need ringleaders and chiefs more then marshalls though. A mix of therapy and thoughtseize might be nice too.

Now adding green makes no real sense to me. You are screwing the manbase to much for the utility of main deck hooligans and sided grips. RB would be a lot more consistent I think and would allow for a few more wastelands

We tried a skullclamp Goblin deck when skullclamp first came out. I was sometimes fantastic and sometimes terrible. I'm just not sure of it. I do like the lack of vials though - not needed I'm thinkling.

For ther side I would lose the green and add red artifact removal and extirpates would stay. Maybe some black creature removal?

This are just initial reactions, mind you. I think there is potential for a strong inclusion of black in goblin decks. I would have to test a fair bit to draw up a list that I was happy with though.

Come over one night and we can test it against faeries, lol.

[Vegeta2711]

2 Warchiefs

There would be no competitive Goblin deck as we know it today without a full set of Goblin Warchief. If you want to play Goblin Aggro, which this deck looks more akin too, please cut all the non-Earwig Squad goblins that cost 3 mana or more and only run 1-2 drops with Goblin Grenade and Therapy. I cannot express how good Warchief is and how absolutely wrong it is to run any number under 4.

In fact, let me put down greatest Goblins of all time list to show why I think this.
Goblin Lackey
Aether Vial
Goblin Warchief
Goblin Ringleader
Goblin Recruiter

The majority of 'best Goblins' were either the ones that cheated costs or gained you ridiculous amounts of CA.

[madmanmike25]

Imo the core of any Goblin build should be:

4 Lackeys
4 Piledrivers
4 Warchiefs

I think that should be the undeniable starting point when designing a deck.  Warchiefs just add so much to Goblins it's hard to imagine less than 4.  I think Ringleaderss could be fine as a 3 of and it wouldn't be a problem. 

Vials can be slow, but don't forget that they wreck house against Stax and Shop decks that play with 9 Spheres.  Do you see a lot of those decks these days??  That being said, I'm not going to claim Vials are an auto-include.  Hell, some people still play with Food Chain and claim it's better.

I really like the Earwigs.  I would say the best 1-drops (in order) are Lackey, Fanatic, and Vandal.  If you choose to play with 4 then ten or twelve 1-drops would easily help you see a turn 2 Earwig, which is what you want.  I'm new to Prowl though, how exactly is it affected by Warchiefs and/or Spheres?

Mike

[rkmancer]

Imo the core of any Goblin build should be:

4 Lackeys
4 Piledrivers
4 Warchiefs

I think that should be the undeniable starting point when designing a deck.  Warchiefs just add so much to Goblins it's hard to imagine less than 4.  I think Ringleaderss could be fine as a 3 of and it wouldn't be a problem. 


I really like the Earwigs.  I would say the best 1-drops (in order) are Lackey, Fanatic, and Vandal.  If you choose to play with 4 then ten or twelve 1-drops would easily help you see a turn 2 Earwig, which is what you want.  I'm new to Prowl though, how exactly is it affected by Warchiefs and/or Spheres?

Mike

Ringleaderless is okay but I can't imagine goblin deck without tutor, so between Matron and Recruiter, what do you like to prefer?
Also about Vial and off-color Mox, I'd test which is better. .

I played RB Goblins in my local vintage tourney last week and find similar case about Prowl Cost and Sphere. .
And based on my local judge's decision, I must pay one more when I want to play it with prowl way. .
So when Sphere of Resistance is in the play, Earwig Squad's prowl cost will be  . .
Prowl Cost is an alternate cost to play a spell, same as you pitch a blue card and pay 1 life for Force of Will. .

EDIT :
I don't know about the relation with Warchief, but my theory will say its prowl cost will be reduced with the same way. .

[ReAnimator]

Thanks alls for the feed back. Like i said i'm in no way a goblin expert, i was just trying to think outside the box.

So I guess i was wrong about the warchiefs and the downsides are just way out weighed by the up sides. I just really wanted to try out the tin streets and with a full boat of chiefs i couldn't really do that.  I guess their upside vs stax is somewhat mitigated by the cost reductions that the chiefs have.

RE: Prowl
It works exactly like madness and casting a spell normally so it can be forced and it can be reduced/added to by spheres and chiefs.

So with the removal of Tin's that pushes this into straight RB as some suggested. I think the logical switch is to -2 taiga and 1 or 2 fetches for the 4th badlands and 2-3 mountains.
I really don't want a basic swamp or extra wasteland in here as there is already enough colourless sources that get in the way of the chiefs.
What should the Mox Emerald turn into? a chrome mox? or maybe another 1 drop goblin or just a land? I'm leaning towards chrome mox at the moment as i really liked having the extra accel, even the off colour mox wasn't that bad, but probably not good enough.

With the removal of 3 tin streets i think it should be +2 Chiefs and +1 Tinkerer. I really am not a big fan of the tinkerer but he does get better with a chief in play. I'm a little nervous about not having that much artifact removal maindeck but i'm unconvinced that vandal is the way to go.

In the board i agree now that ZoZu is a little narrow (but fun!) so that should probably get the cut as well as the grips.
The vials i'm still not sold on but i think they are better than REB's in the board at the moment, and i would really like to try out Cabal Slaver so i'll test this for a bit. I'm thinking that i'll need some more creature removal in the form of either wierdings terminates or gempalms.

4 AEther vial
2 Cabal slaver
3 Shattering spree
1 skullclamp
1 stingscourger
3 Extirpates
1 Cabal therapy



Other than the gaff with the warchiefs what do you all think of think of some of the other ideas in here. Clamp has been pretty good for me so far, enough so that i haven't wanted the extra ringleaders.

The Therapies maindeck have been fine as well.

I've really liked the War Marshals too, they have been great at buying time against juggernauts and have been just silly with piledrivers, therapies and clamps. Getting extra guy's on the table has been helpful for the prowl as well.

Thanks all for the feedback.

[madmanmike25]

3 Fanatics
4 Lackeys
1 Skirk prospector
4 Piledrivers

4 Earwig squad
1 Gempalm incinerator

3 Mogg war marshal
1 Stingscourger
3 Matron
2 Ringleader
4 Warchief
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Warren Weirding
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Skullclamp   

1 lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald/Lotus Petal/Chrome Mox
1 Solring
1 Mana Crypt

1 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
7 Red Fetches
4 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt??
3 Mountains

SB
3 Extirpate
3 Red elemental blast (possibly AEther vial, or cabal slaver)
2 Shattering spree
2 Krosan Grip
1 cabal therapy
1 stingscourger
1 skullclamp
2 ZoZu the punisher

After reading your last post I am going to assume that this is what your current deck looks like, yes?

I think Earwigs>Cabal Slaver, but thats untested.  Slaver doesn't look necessary to me.

I went ahead and added Blood Crypt since I don't like having more fetches than the actual lands they can get you.

I would try Lotus Petal since on color mana is where its at.  I would also rather have another Mox than Sol Ring.  I don't want to have to cast Sol Ring on turn 1, I'd rather be playing a 1-drop Goblin.  And on that note, you run 4 Earwigs and I think you need to bump up the 1-drop Goblin count to AT LEAST ten.

Here is a list that I would recommend:

Gobbo's:  33
4 Lackeys
4 Fanatics
3 Vandals
4 Piledrivers
3 Stingscourgers
4 Warchiefs
3 Matrons
3 Ringleaders
4 Earwigs
1 Weirding/Gempalm

Disruption:  4
4 Cabal Therapy

Mana:  23
2 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
4 Badland
1 Blood Crypt
3 Mountain
6 Fetches
1 Stripmine
3 Wasteland

First off I really like Stingscourgers since they pave the way for Prowl.  An awesome trick is to bounce a critter then Cabal Therapy it away.  It's that good.  You weren't planning on paying that stupid Echo cost anyways.

When playing Goblins, you already have an advantage vs. Stax for the most part.  You can put Vials in the SB if you want complete domination.  This list has 3 Vandals main, that should be enough.

I'm no Goblin expert myself but I don't think you want toooo many random 1-of's even though you play with Matrons.  Feel free to get rid of two Goblins to add in 2 Skullclamps(-1 Earwig, -1 Weirding probably).  I'm just not sold that they are needed.  There are plenty of different Goblin lists that can be viable.  Hopefully my list isn't a step backwards.

Mike

P.S.  Does everyone feel that Matron>Recruiter?  I'm on the fence as both have advantages.

[matthewCURBSTOMP]

Matron definately dominates over Recruiter when no Food Chain is being run. Matron gets the card NOW which is what you want. Recruiter is good at setting up, but why set up when you can just get the goblin then? Even if say somehow you go into topdeck mode, I would much rather rip a Matron for Ringleader/Piledriver than draw a Recruiter.

[rkmancer]

Old Goblins Deck (before Earwig's era) contain full set of Leyline of the Void and Magus of the Moon to play in main deck. .
Since GAT is dominating the meta now, LotV'd be remove to SB but MotM is still worthed though he isn't a goblin. .
Also I recommend for Thoughtseize / Duress (depend on your meta) > Therapies. .
Exact hand removal is better than 2x therapies experiment in my opinion. .
What do you all think about it?

[bebe]

I think therapies can be quite useful depending on what synergies it has withe rest of the deck. I would not discount them so quickly if using scourgers and marshalls.

[LordHomerCat]

Please don't use lotus petal when you have access to Simian Spirit Guide.  Also, Aether Vial in the board?  Who are you boarding them against, all the blue control decks and the mana denial decks like 9sphere decks?  At that point, why aren't you playing them main?

[kicks_422]

How much disruption should a Goblin deck run? Is 5 Waste effects and 4 Earwig Squads enough to still ensure speed? Or is it worth running Chalices and/or Thorns main, even when you're cutting into your Goblin count?

[blee1149]

My old Goblin deck, before Morningtide looked like this during January T1 tourney, placed 10-11 of 64.

3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
2 Badlands
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
2 Mox
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Rishadan Port
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Magus of the Moon

SB:

4 Leyline of the Void
3 Snuff Out
3 REB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Pulverize
1 Shattering Spree

Wastelands won me most of the games, Main deck Magus is sure fun and blue can't do anything if it drops with a vial.

With the new set, I am thinking of a deck like this:

4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Badlands
3 Mountain
1 Swamp
2 Mox
1 Lotus
1 Petal
4 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine

4 Aether Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Earwig Squad
4 Magus of the Moon

I think that With Land and Library disruption is enough to stall and bash your way through.  It would be nice to fit some MD artifact hate.
Earwigs are amazing, the weakness is that it is a pure drain food.  In my playtest yesterday I've had earwig drained, then scryed for 5.

I am deciding on the 6th wastes, I think it punishes those who run the odd basics and can shut them down better.  Since there are over 6 colorless, the magus can turn into your advantage by fixing your own mana.

i still like vials at 3 because warchiefs are sometimes hard to cast with the double red, and the instant magus.  I have 12 cards at 3 cc.

Frogtosser can give an early boost to ringleader, but still deciding

note: i tested 3 colour gobs, it was hard to play with 5 wastes, and warchiefs and tin street aren't the best of friends.
makes the deck more vulnerable to b2b, wastes.  Even will have trouble having magus SB.
I'd just go vandals or tinkerer or sprees.

[Pigeon]

Does Goblin Warchief affect Earwig's prowl cost?

[Tareth]

The short answer is yes.

[AmbivalentDuck]

If you're going to run green, why wouldn't you run Root Maze (at least SB) as a silver bullet against Gush-based decks?

[kaos42069]

If you are running RGB goblins why not run food chain?

[Mark_Story]

The primary reason not to use food chain is that it forces the deck out of a disruption aggro role and into a combo aggro role.

FCG's combo role isn't what it used to be either.  Flash is infinitely more fast and resiliant, and the shop decks have evolved as to not be such low hanging fruit.  Overall I think FCG's combo mode just isn't worth the sacrifice in utility.