Workshop

[Red Irish]

I have recently been playing a number of Workshop decks and the current build is as follows:

"Scrapyard"

2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
6 Mountain

5 Moxes
1 Lotus
1 Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Crypt


4 Goblin Welder
3 Arcbound Ravager
4 Juggernaut
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Razormane Masticore
2 Triskelion


3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
2 Powder Keg

Side

2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Jester’s Cap
3 Rack and Ruin
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Magus of the Moon

The process of adapting the deck in view of innovations taken from other builds, tournament results and testing seems to never finish and I wanted to share a few of my observations in the hope of gaining some useful feedback and suggestions. I apologise if my comments seem obvious, my intention is to stimulate debate on card selection within a Workshop deck and exchange ideas for improvement as I am never completely happy with any of my builds and spend hours deliberating over the inclusion of a particular card. 

Card Choice Analysis/Justification:

Ravager: Triskelion combo (although I only run two Triskelion); sacrifice to remove Bridge from Below; sacrifice vault/crypt when my life is getting too low; combat tricks and synergy with 14 other creature cards.

Razormane: great against Fish and Gruul. I am considering including an additional Razormane along with a Sundering Titan/Platinum Angel in order to discard/welder in these cards; however, I don't feel I draw enough to warrant dedicating cards to this combo.

Powder Keg: these two slots are causing me to loose sleep. Powder Keg allows me to defend against tokens from Warrens/Ichorid, remove other threats, attack Moxes to set up Welder tricks and, like Ravager, avoid vault/crypt suicide. However, I am considering a number of different options:

Remove the two Powder Kegs and Crypt and replace with 3 Tangle Wire.
Remove the two Powder Kegs and replace with 2 Viashino Heretic.
Remove the two Powder Kegs and replace with 1 Karn and something else. I like the fact that Karn allows me to destroy the opponent's Moxes and destroy my own to remove Bridge, whilst interacting with 10 possible 2/2’s and 4 3/3’s, although he appears to be more at home in traditional Stax builds.
I have even been toying with the idea of including Chromatic Star in order to increase the deck’s draw potential, but in my saner moments this seems foolish at best.

My main concern is the response against Oath. Jester’s Cap/Powder Keg are my only real answers assuming that I don’t get a Sphere lock and quick kill and it appears that once the Oath resolves and activates it’s “game over”. The Cap works prior to Oath activation, but perhaps I should include Eon Hub/Greater Gargadon in order to have some sort of response to a resolved Oath, which leads to the question: when should Oath be attacked, prior to Oath resolution or subsequent to resolution?

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to respond to my ramblings.

[Wise]

My main concern is the response against Oath

Have you thought of Eon Hub, this also is effective against Ichorids, and Mirror match Tanglewire/smoke stack.

[Red Irish]

I have considered Eon Hub. Obviously if I get this out prior to Oath resolution and/or activation, followed by a sphere, then it should be game. Hub also helps against Ichorid and reduces Kataki to no more than an expensive Savannah Lion, but would you board in Hub against Fish? What would you remove from the main? I don't like the idea of boarding in Hub against the mirror/Stax as they will probably just weld it out. Perhaps I’m asking a little too much of a card that is versatile enough to potentially wreck Oath and slow down Ichorid. Then again, Cap works well against storm and other combo decks, so it’s also versatile. You want to have your cake, eat it, and then order some more...

In my experience, most Oath players run 2 Tyrants and then side in a Sky Swallower. I don’t know which is worse. Sky Swallower can trade with any creature in my deck all day unless I am lucky enough to resolve and equip a Sword in time. I would love to splash for black in order to side in some disruption and Diabolic Edict. Black would also allow me to board in Yixlid Jailer and I have noticed a number of decks that have splashed white in order to address perceived shortcomings. However, running duals weakens the deck against Wasteland/Strip Mine attacks and seems to dilute the deck’s focus.

I can’t explain why Oath causes me to panic to such an extent, after all, Flash and Belcher are capable of winning on Turn 0, but Oath just seems so much stronger and more consistent and only prolongs the agony.

Clearly a lot of my discussion revolves around the issue of the sideboard, which, to a large extent, depends on each player's local metagame. However, I don't want a sideboard that is overly location specific. I think its fine to side in an extra Rack and Ruin if you know that 3 Stax players from the neighbouring town are going to show up, but I really want a board that can provide some sort of response to any eventuality, irrespective of trends in the local scene, and predicting what will be played is a dangerous game at best that often backfires. Am I asking too much? Probably, but Oliver Twist aside, asking for more never hurt…

So, getting back to the point (I think I had one), I have modified the main by taking out a Ravager and the two Keg in order to insert 3 Tangle Wire and it seems to be running better:

2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
6 Mountain

5 Moxes
1 Lotus
1 Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Crypt


4 Goblin Welder
2 Arcbound Ravager
4 Juggernaut
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Razormane Masticore
2 Triskelion


3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
3 Tangle Wire

We have a tournament coming up in the beginning of April and I have a few sideboard options in mind:

Option 1:

4 Jester’s Cap
4 Rack and Ruin
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Magus of the Moon


Option 2:

3 Jester’s Cap
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Magus of the Moon
3 Pyroclasm


I think I am going to settle on the second list as it appears to be more versatile. However, midnight rummaging through the card collection in search of enlightenment will continue and I still have one or two slots that are open to debate:

Should I run Tormod’s Crypt over Leyline?

Should I run Rack and Ruin or Viashino Heretic?

Should I run Jester's Cap over Eon Hub?

Once again, thanks for reading and any responses

[Luecifer]

I guess my first thought is why no magus of the moon in the maindeck? If you are playing mono red there is no reason he should be excluded. If however, you were looking for more of a mud base why no metalworker at all. With metalworker you can toss in staff of domination for the o look i just combod out for the win.  I do prefer 4 caps in the board, especially with many top decks cutting down on the number of win conditions, a single cap can mean game over for you. Just my ramblings as i look over the list.

[Red Irish]

There are a number of reasons why I have chosen to run Magus in the board rather than in the main:

Magus doesn’t really affect Fish or Gruul. I side him in against Oath, GAT and Ichorid, but against Fish, unless I am lucky enough to cast him quickly and catch the Fish player with fetch lands in hand in the initial turns, he's an expensive 2/2 that does little to hinder my opponent. The same is true of Gruul, where he only affects Kird Ape and the opponent's ability to cast Tarmogoyf, and he is unlikely to remain on the table long enough to make any difference. Magus has won me matches single-handedly; however, I have often found that he affects me more than my opponent, after all, my focus is to drop lock pieces followed by fat artefact creatures for a quick kill and he negates the acceleration I require: casting and equipping a Sword also requires a lot of mana. Moreover, I don’t think I would employ him against MUD as, whilst he levels the playing filed in terms of denying acceleration to both of us, the MUD player retains Metalworker and can evade this hindrance whilst I can not.

Basically, I am arguing that Magus is not universally good enough to warrant inclusion in the main. That said, this is merely my opinion and the benefits outlined above could be used to justify inclusion in any main deck: I would be the last person to argue against this decision. In short, you could be right. Once again, metagame is a crucial consideration.

In terms of veering more towards a MUD base, I think that the decks are very similar in terms of strategy; however, there are important differences and I don't think Mono-red Aggro Shop should be confused with MUD. The Metalworker/Staff combo is one of MUD's mainstays, but I don't think there is room for it in my deck. Whether or not MUD is superior to Aggro Shop and you are suggesting that I switch to MUD is another argument, but I am happier with my deck choice. You seem to suggest that by excluding Magus from the main I have simply failed to make a complete commitment towards the MUD route. My deck could be described as MUD with a splash of red, but I think that this would drastically underestimate the importance of those 6 mountains:

Welder
Wasteland immunity (important against Fish)
“Fetch” ability with Solemn Simulacrum when I need a basic land
The sideboard

I think you’re right about the Cap decision.

Cheers

 

[Red Irish]

I have not play tested this idea, so it may or may not work, but there seems to be a possibility of attacking Oath with the following combination of cards:

Mishra's Factory / Monkey Cage / Spawning Pit

Assuming that I can drop Monkey Cage prior to Oath activation, the opponent has one turn to find Echoing Truth before the fat lady sings. In other words, he can't activate before he has an answer, which may prove too late. I can also activate the Cage when it proves advantageous. Spawing Pit buys me time, whilst the Factory allows me to attack each turn without enabling the Oath player to activate.

Problems:

This would require a great deal of commitment in terms of main deck and/or sideboard slots.

I am happier running Ancient Tomb rather than Factory in view of the mana acceleration requirements outlined above; however, Jerry Yang reached sixth place at the Starcitygames Power Nine running the "Factory Base":

Players seem to be split between these two choices when setting up Aggro Shop decks and there appears to be a strong case for each option. On a side note, does anyone have any views with regards to this mana base issue?

If the Oath player runs or sides in Platinum Angel, Monkey Cage is useless.

It probably won't work or may prove too slow.

Other shortcomings that I have not foreseen...

Any thoughts?

[Harlequin]

Monkey Cage can be answered by Forbidden Orchard. 

Jester's Cap is a better investment of mana when it comes to answers to Oath.

[hauntedechos]

Why are we (the mono  assortment) not just running x4 Greater Gargadons?  I've been playtesting with that and Lava Darts and it seems to keep the Oath player down.

Haunted.

[Thicketman]

In a Mono  Workshop deck, I was curious if running 4 Badlands and 2 mountains instead of 6 Mountains and throwing in a Demonic Tutor would be a good decision. Also, would it hurt to throw a Mindslaver in there for shits and giggles?

[VsTheWorld]

Mono Shop Aggro is a list fighting for every single slot. Tossing a Slaver in "just because" doesn't really work. Also, adding Badlands creates the problem of leaving our red sources open to Waste and reduces the effectiveness of Solemn Simulacrum immensely.

Anyway, as far as the Eon Hub vs. Jester's Cap vs. Gargadon debate is concerned, I'm inclined to side with Cap. Gargadon seems good vs Oath, but ONLY vs Oath. We are an aggro deck at heart so we'll likely want to be playing creatures to put Oath on a clock anyway. I think Gargadon serves its purpose (theoretically preventing Oath activations) decently, but as far as being an actual threat it seems unlikely to resolve. Against any other deck it's pretty much a dead SB slot. That leaves Cap and Hub. Oath can still win through Eon Hub by just tutoring for bounce at their leisure if you can't put them on a fast clock. A preemptive Cap activation is likely a win for you, unless they have a creature in hand AND you have no clock. Plus Welding a Cap back every turn just seems really fun.

[Thicketman]

Plus Welding a Cap back every turn just seems really fun.

Definitely a good defense for the Cap.

[Red Irish]

Monkey Cage can be answered by Forbidden Orchard. 

Jester's Cap is a better investment of mana when it comes to answers to Oath.

You're right. I was envisaging the Cage being welded back on to the table in response to the Tyrant coming into play, but, as you point out, the opponent can simply activate orchard in response. I was thinking, or rather refraining from thinking, out loud - sorry about that, I got carried away with the idea of putting all those ape tokens into play...

Is there any room for cage in the board? Could it be used to combat fish/ichorid? What do you expect me to do with all the bananas?

In terms of serious responses to Oath I think our card options are probably limited to the following:

Jester's Cap
Powder Keg
Greater Gargadon
Spawning Pit

I think there is a more or less general consensus that Cap seems to be the route to take: as VsTheWorld points out, it's more versatile than the other answers, despite the fact that its usefulness does appear largely limited to the stage of the game prior to Oath activation.


Badlands are very tempting; however, whilst I would like to hear from anyone who has tested this option, I don't think they are viable for the reasons outlined above by myself and other users.

The Tormod's Crypt/Leyline Debate: I think Crypt is the choice as it can be recurred with Welder.

The Viashino Heretic/Rack and Ruin Debate: I have decided to run the Heretic. I prefer the instant against opponents running Stax/MUD and the mirror match, but Viashino remains on the table and I dislike the idea of boarding in Rack against Fish's null rods.

I would like to hear any responses on the Tomb/Factory mana base issue.

I am currently trying to find a spot for one of my favourite cards: Shrapnel Blast. In addition to the obvious benefits of an instant that deals 5 damage for 2 mana, this appears to be an alternate route to initiating Welder antics and avoiding Mana Crypt/Vault suicide. It may be useful as an unexpected finisher.

Cheers

[hauntedechos]

4 Factory
4Waste
4Shops
2City of traitors
2Ancient tomb
1 Stripmine
6 Mountains is my current testing mana base and it works fine.

Haunted.

[Red Irish]

4 Factory
4Waste
4Shops
2City of traitors
2Ancient tomb
1 Stripmine
6 Mountains is my current testing mana base and it works fine.

Haunted.

That is a very unusual mana base. I assumed that most land configurations fell into one of two categories:

The Factory Base

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
6 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

(Mark Trogdon, Meandeck Open 12/30)

3 Mishra’s Factory
4 Mishra’s Workshop
6 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

(Jerry Yang, StarCityGames Power 9)

The Tomb Base

2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra’s Workshop`
6 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

(yespuhyren, Untouchables Double Lotus)

I have seen some variants that run 7 rather than 6 mountains.

It seems to me that your base is more in keeping with MUD builds, whilst retaining the mountains. You run 23 lands, has that not led you to sacrifice essential inclusions?

Cheers

[hauntedechos]

I also run academy, forgot to include that.  It's a factory base with 2 tombs and 2 traitors.  What I've had to cut was a mana crypt and mana vault.  The reason for this early on was that I wanted to avoid the pain aspect of it.  What I've come up with is that the tomb hurts me every time I activate it, much like the vault or crypt would as well.  The difference is that I usually don't HAVE to use tomb as early game there are other sources available to me.  It's the option to use tomb and take the damage versus auto damage every turn with Vault and 3 damage when the die roll is lost.

I know that these painfull artifacts can be welded out, but against Oath I really can't afford to be pushed into playing a welder to avoid pain...because then they oath and I lose (potentially).  It's certainly not considered an optimal base, but it's been pretty good to me thus far.  I've never had an issue with haveing the amounts of mana to continue dropping and paying for threats and I've been able to reduce the number of situations where I'm taking artifact damage.

It does have more of a MUD feel to it and that was because I like the explosiveness of MUD's base.  There is enough mountains to feed the use of blasts, welders and Magus (looking to replace magus' with blood moons in consideration of Oath's possible popularity rise)  I'm looking to reduce the number of bodies in my deck because of the Oath matchup as they seem to be dead draws untill Oath has had it's mana base reduced and sufficient soft lock pieces are dropped to safely drop a welder to keep the wires and countered spheres in play.  At that point it's typically Factory beats with an equipped jitte in case a tyrant hits the board and or an orchard gives me a token.  The use of jittes counters seems to be more versatile than the protection/draw that SOFI gives.  I'm sure many would dissagree and that's fine, because like I said I'm really experimenting at this point.

Haunted.

[Markylane]

            I also tried to follow this build in my deck in it is very effective.


_________________
Bathroom fan

[swawagon]

I am a fan of a couple Fetchlands when I am running Crucible of Worlds so I can fetch out more - in this case Mountains.

Also with Crucibles and Welders some number of Bazaars are a must.

Ensnaring Bridge or Greater Gargadon are options I prefer to run versus Oath. Jester's Cap is often just too swingy and mana intensive, I can't count the number of times I get it online a turn too late.

I think a legitimate question Shop players have to ask is to play Mana Crypt or not. People lose as often as they win because of that card. In a slow Stax deck with only Welders to remove it, it may just be too big of a liability. In a rainbow Stax list with Tinker, Karn or if you play a couple Gorilla Shaman, the chances I sleeve it go way up.

[vassago]

Since you are running welders, why are you not playing bazaars?  It seems pretty ridiculous in this list, I could be wrong though.  Also, I am a personal fan of Sundering Titan, especially since you can do whacky welder tricks.