[Deck] Turbo Death - Years In The Making

[Cavius The Great]

Here's a neat little aggro/combo deck that I first conceived around 3 years ago. I've kept the list secret for many years but finally decided to get the idea out there. I first concieved the Living Death combo and PoliceQ has also dabbled a bit with it and shared ideas. This is an "aggro' deck that consistently wins by the third turn and wins by the second a large majority of the time. The idea behind the deck is to get into play a Bazaar of Baghdad as quickly as possible, and go "nuts" with it, get creatures with haste into the yard, then cast a Songs of the Damned and Living Death ftw. Here's the intriguing decklist followed by some explanatory comments.

Land:12
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Overgrown Tomb

Spells:24
4 Land Grant
1 Crop Rotation
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Spoils of the Vault
4 Living Death
1 Imperial Seal
4 Songs of the Damned
1 Demonic Consultation
4 Pact of Negation

Creatures:24
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Spirit of the Night
4 Brimstone Dragon
4 Blistering Firecat
4 Ball Lightning
4 Ashen Monstrosity
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
3 Stalking Vengeance
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Sideboard:15
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ray of Revelation
3 Emerald Charm
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Ghastly Demise
4 Pithing Needle

The reason I've been keeping this deck a secret for so long is becuase I made the decision that I prefered to build it before I posted the list. 4 Bazaars and 1 Imperial Seal short, I figured I'd get my idea out there before someone else laid claim to it. 

The deck is pretty simple and fast. second to third turn kills are commonplace with this deck. Your main agenda playing this deck is to get either a first or second turn Bazaar of Baghdad. Go all out in getting one into play by the first or second turn. If you don't have a tutor or bazaar in your opening hand, then mulligan. It's as simple as that. Once you get a Bazaar into play, you activate it once or twice then follow it up with a Songs of the Damned and Living Death. Songs of the Damned is an amazing card for this deck, since you can play it off one land with more than enough mana to cast a Living Death with. I usually kill by the third turn dumping creatures into my graveyard then comboing out with Songs/Living Death. The creatures also all have haste and are big to ensure a quick kill on the very turn you cast Living Death. I usually attack for 30+ damage after comboing out or more. I also run Pact of Negation so that I can cast Living Death with counterbackup. Pact of Negation is also very easy to find with Bazaars and I hardly ever have trouble finding it. I like it better than Thoughtseize/Duress because it's a reactive card as well as free. I prefer that over a proactive sorcery.

The sideboard is also designed to combat hate against my particular deck. Pithing Needle combats Wasteland, Loam as well, Ray of Revelation deals with Confinements, ivory masks and moats, while Ancient Grudge deals with Chalices set at 1. I've tested this deck extensively and this is by far the most optimal build. I wish I had time to include all of the "transformations" this deck went through, but I don't have the time. I also don't include Moxen/Lotus becuase it's pretty much not needed. Mana acceleration aside from Songs of the Damned is slightly overkill. I also like to keep this deck at a decent price range but if you feel the need for moxen, then go right ahead and add some.

Well, that about wraps it up. If you want to play a super fun aggro deck and pull of second turn wins, this is the deck for you. The deck is a blast to play and fairly competitive as well. Let me know what you guys think of my latest innovation. I hope to get comments and critiques and hope to get a discussion going as well. Thanx ahead of time. Peace.

[Shock Wave]

Just to clarify, you lose if:

- Your Bazaar gets destroyed
- Your Living Death is disrupted or stopped
- Your Spoils kills you (not unlikely)
- You mulligan into oblivion (also not unlikely)
- Your own Pact kills you

Am I missing something, or is this deck very inconsistent/fragile and extremely vulnerable to very prevalent Vintage disruption?

Have you played this at any real events? If so, what were the results?

[Morphling420]

Im gona hafta agree with the prior comment this deck looks like it is very fragile and would lose to a first turn duress almost everytime. I believe this is a definite play on a deck that was very good when saga came back called fluctuator death. Not sure if this is where you got the original idea but i like the bazaar a little better since it cant really be countered. What are you tourny results with this deck?

[Cavius The Great]

Duress isn't a big deal since most of the deck consists of creatures and if I have a Bazaar and they Duress me, I still am able to win. The only major damage Duress does is get rid of tutors, but tutors are so redundant in this deck it's merely a minor setback.

I currently have only tested this deck online with moderate success. Control and Aggro seem to roll over and die to this deck. The only deck that I assume would give me problems is various Stax builds. That's the main reason I dedicate my board to Chalice. This deck's best quality is to combat control. It's so fast that my opponent will not have any mana open to Mana Drain anything. And If they have a FoW, Pact of Negation pretty much handles that and if successful, I win.

I don't currently have any tournament results, but PoliceHQ has Top8'ed with the deck, a year and a half ago at one of his local tournies. The build he was running was sub-optimal compared to my final version (no Pact of Negation), so that says alot about the raw power behind the idea of this deck.

[Robert the Swordsman]

You have to ask yourself: why is this better than Ichorid?

If put in to topdeck mode (not terribly unlikely, since you only run four disruption spells), you have twenty-four dead draws.

Also, it seems like a mistake not to include Dark Ritual.

[Cavius The Great]

I've tested both Cabal and Dark Ritual. Both turned out to be clearly inferior to Songs of the Damned. Songs of the Damned produces 5-7 mana an average by the second or third turn. Dark Ritual is pretty much deadweight compared to it.

You have to ask yourself: why is this better than Ichorid?

If put in to topdeck mode (not terribly unlikely, since you only run four disruption spells), you have twenty-four dead draws.

Also, it seems like a mistake not to include Dark Ritual.

P.S. - I don't think that you realize how this deck works. You will only have two land in play the large majority of the time, a swamp type land and a bazaar (you discard any extra land becuase that's all you need). This makes Dark Ritual a horrible idea since I plan on winning by the second land drop. That is why Songs of the Damned appears to be the superior choice.

[BigBarn]

Looks like you loose to all the same stuff dredge loses to, but you're also slower.  They have a free disruption spell as well, and it doesn't have to be in their opening hand.

Nice idea, but looks like it needs work.

[Cavius The Great]

If you guy's are having doubts, proxy this thing up on MWS. You will be amazed how fast it is. The deck looks horrible on paper, but plays almost flawlessly 95% of the time. And I'm pretty sure this deck doesn't need much work, I've been tweaking it to perfection for years.  Proxy it up and see for yourself, is all I can say.

[Tareth]

Going with the whole mulligan till you find Bazaar plan is worthless without Serum Powders.

Ichorid mulligans to oblivion WITH Serum Powders, which makes this deck that much more inconsistent.

[Harlequin]

Mathmatically speaking, I don't think your mana base holds water.

First of all, there is NO reason to run land grant.  Just run fetchlands.  Theres no reason you should give your opponent the chance to counter an extremly precious land.  And you get to keep your intentions secrete.  So lets just say you run 4 fetches in that spot.  With that you have 12 mana and 4 bazaars:

Right there you have a 9% chance to draw niether on a 7 hand.  1 in 11 seven hands are auto-mulls.  The other 9% of the time, you have bazaar and no lands.  And after that you only have a 52% chance that one of the top two cards of your deck is a land.  So 1 in 22 hands, 2 are auto mull, and 1 is 'keepable' that yields a loss.  After you mull, the stats get worse, now your up to 14% chance auto-mull at 6 and 10% chance of bazaar only.  

Thats may not seem like alot were talking about 2-3 games in 20 are a 'failure.'  But keep in mind thats Raw mull %. Not taking into account any other distributions in the hand.  With 7 cards roughly 3 will be "meat" creatures and 3 will be combo peices.  Even though the expected values for each are 3, with so much of the space in your deck devoted to it - you end up with another 8% chance to draw 5 or more creatures in one hand.    

With only 11 Living Ends (and tutors for living end).  You have a 22% chance to not draw a tutor or living end in the first 7.  Even extending that out to 10 cards, you still only have an 89% chance to find your win condition (11% chance of failure).  These hands are not exclusive of the mulligans, and perhapse this stat is even more revealing.

The MWS shuffler is not good.  And this is a double edge sword of testing... for one, you shouldn't throw away a deck because it feals inconsistant on MWS.  But on the other hand, you can't -blame- the shuffle as a justification for bad draws.  I have trouble justifing a test of a deck, when I none of the probability I throw at it sticks... This deck may have X-factor wins, and it may be able to get on a roll with good hands.  But I would certainly be careful how I use the word consistant.

[dawgie]

I know this deck has the surprise factor and I know its different but:

- Chalice for 1 kills you.
- Meddling Mage kills you (naming Songs of the Damned)
- Pithing Needle for Bazaar of Baghdad kills you.
- Magus of the Bazaar kills you. As well as Blood Moon.
- Countering Songs of the Damned will stop you. And you do not run any disruption at all. At least with Ichorid, there is Cabal Therapy and Unmask.

The SB strategies are also weak. With Ichorid, its SB strategy is focused on removing the opponents LoTV from play. Thats why Ichorid has about 9-10 slots just to take care of it because it only needs to take care of LoTV in order to win. You have to dedicate other SB slots just to take care of other threats because you will be stopped by it. The beauty of Ichorid is that even though its locked down, it can still strike with Ichorid and Zombie tokens without any spells.

Also, how are you playtesting the deck? With which decks? MWS only? Then thats a bad practice ground as MWS is a ground for untalented players. Most of us needs hard proof for your claims of consistency.

[Sephiroth]

Trying to do some constructive comments on the deck (gratz for the nice idea, it's sure it's fun to play ):

- why 1x squee ? The deck does not need to abuse of this creature like dragon did in the past, so i think it's a dead slot imho.
- what do you think about adding Street Wraith ? Can make stronger cards like vampiric or imperial seal !
- serum powder ? why don't adding 'em ? Ichorid teach us that mulligan at seven is always nice for the bazaar's researck ^^

Just my 2 cents.

Seph.

[Kowal]

I'm sorry to be a downer for you, but this deck is pretty poor.

Control and Aggro seem to roll over and die to this deck.

This is utterly untrue.  I suppose if you're playing against R/G Beatz, and happen to draw all your combo pieces at the same time without duplicates, AND you get lucky on your bazaar, AND they don't topdeck Wasteland, you can goldfish on them.  Maybe.

You are banking on seeing this mixture of cards to win:

Bazaar, Songs, Living Death, Pact of Negation, Mana Land, 20 power worth of guys (the easiest you can assemble this is three firecats, so we'll just assume that to give your argument the benefit of the doubt.)  That comes to 8 cards in two turns to goldfish optimally.  The odds of you drawing any given four-of in your deck is less than 50%.  The exact percentage is somewhere in the low thirties, if I'm not mistaken.  The odds of you drawing any two card combination in your opening hand is about 10%.  The odds of drawing a three card combination is roughtly 3%.  Now, to be fair, you'll get a turn on Bazaar, so you'll be looking at 10 cards, with 11 if you're on the draw.

Your odds to get your mix (a four of in bazaar, a four of in songs, a four of in living death, a four of in pact of negation, a twelve of in mana lands, and three times over for your creatures which would be a twenty-four of) comes to less than 1%.  When you give yourself an additional turn to search, it just about crests the 1% mark.

In the mean time, just about any resistance beats you.  Force of Will.  Mana Drain.  Duress.  Thoughtseize.  Flash.  Storm combo.  Sphere of Resistance.  Trinisphere.  Thorn of Amethyst.  Chalice of the Void.  Wasteland.  Strip Mine.  Pithing Needle.  Magus of the Moon.  Blood Moon.  Glowrider.  Meddling Mage.  Tormod's Crypt.  Dragon combo.  Withered Wretch.  Leyline of the Void.  Orim's Chant!

Sure, if you hit that 1% line, you can beat exactly one of those cards, presuming it's played when you're trying to go off and no sooner, and there are no other cards present that prevent you from winning.  GAT, as an example, has between 8 and 12 spells that qualify as game over to you, and has well over a 10% chance of finding two.  More than 10% of the time, even if the rest of their hand is trashy, you will be utterly unable to beat them even if you stack your deck.  Stax, with between 9 and 13 cards that make you unable to win, only needs to see one to beat you, and your resistance is useless against them.  Any given card they draw, at any time, has at least a 20% chance of making you lose.  Factored over the 9 cards (at least) you let them see, and their ability to simply mull in to a game ender, you're giving them about 20 opportunities (if they're willing to mull to 5 and no further) on that 20%.  This comes to a total of over 90% (well over, actually) which means in more than 9 in 10 games, it is utterly irrelevant what you draw.  You literally can not win in roughly 90% of the games you sit down.

I also don't get this.

This is an "aggro' deck that consistently wins by the third turn

Well we've been over that it's not consistant.  It's a mathematical nightmare to get it turn three with any backup whatsoever, in fact.  The word "aggro" used here is doubly confusing.  What is aggro about this deck?  It's not like you have the backup plan of "cast the utility guys, beat you up," which is especially true when your manabase is so anorexic that you couldn't even afford Tarmogoyf on a regular basis.  You also don't play anything like aggro.  You have no disruption, and you have no threats.  You also don't have an aggro deck's consistancy--  Doesn't matter what mix of cards you draw in R/G Beatz or Goblins, if you draw lands and spells, you'll be dealing damage to someone.  If you draw a random series of cards, you're actually more likely to draw cards that do nothing than you are to draw cards that do something.

[Cavius The Great]

@Not drawing the combo peices debate - Take my advice people and please test this deck on MWS. If you do, you will realize that all that you need to draw into the combo is a Bazaar of Baghdad. That's the main reason I run 8 tutors becuase Bazaar is the deck.

@The land count debate - I only need one swamp to win the game. End of story. The land count is sufficient.

Well we've been over that it's not consistant.  It's a mathematical nightmare to get it turn three with any backup whatsoever, in fact.

This is coming from a person that has obviously never played this deck. Please proxy this up on MWS before making further assumptions, I beg you. You will then realize that with a Bazaar of Baghdad, anything's possible. 

[Kowal]

Normally I'd just ignore you because the "test it for serious!" argument is, as a rule of thumb, one of the very worst.  However, I'll humor you.

Hand One:  Bazaar, Bazaar, Monstrosity, Brimstone, Living Death, Spoils, Bayou.

The hand does nothing before turn three.  Bazaar finds Imperial Seal and another big guy.  Turn two Imp Seal for Songs of the Damned.  Bazaar doesn't find another mana source, so I can't Spoils in to Pact.  Good thing too, because I looked and it would have killed me.  Instead I have turn three Songs in to Living Death, which is just barely enough to go lethal.  So to recap the first game:
Lose to Drain, lose to Force, lose to Wasteland (on my Bayou), lose to any Sphere/Glowrider/Whatever effect, lose to Chalice, lose to Duress (on my Death), lose to Tormods, lose to Pithing Needle.


Hand Two:  Firecat, Firecat, Firecat, Pact, Monstrosity, Bayou, Spirit of the Night.  Mulled.  Second attempt is Ball, Ball, Brimstone, Death, Pact, Spoils.  Mulled.  Third attempt is Swamp, Grant, Spoils, Rorix, Firecat.

I lead with Swamp, Spoils for Bazaar.  It's five cards down.  I play it turn two and drop three big red guys.  I found a Pact and a Consult off Bazaar.  I hold off on Consult because I don't have either half of the combo and I'll want Consult to find the second piece when I do.  On my third turn Bazaar nets Death, and between that, my Consult, and the Bayou I land granted for before passing the turn I have exactly enough to fail at ramping to five.  I will have to pass the turn, Consult on their turn for Songs, and hold the Pact I drew off Bazaar instead of my Bayou so I can hopefully have some backup for my turn four goldfish.  Unfortunately, I don't see another creature that turn, and I instead will goldfish turn five.
To recap:
Loses to Duress, Force, Drain, Counterspell, Mana Leak, Chalice, Sphere, Thorn, Trini, Glowrider, Wasteland, Strip Mine, Pithing Needle, Tormods, Extirpate, Coffin Purge, Cabal Therapy, Thoughtseize, etc etc.  I can't think of many cards this doesn't lose to.  In addition, a goldfish on turn five is about two turns slower than most type one goldfishes.  I would easily get raced and obliterated by Goblins, Control Slaver, Bomberman, Dragon, Drain Tendrils, Oath, or GAT.

Hand Three:  Firecat, Firecat, Firecat, Razia, Land Grant, Vamp, Bazaar

Well, this is pretty terrible, but hey, it has mana and a bazaar, it's better than most of my hands last time.  I lead with Bazaar, cast Land Grant, and turn the Bazaar sideways seeing Songs and Brimstone.  Might have a decent goldfish this time maybe?  Drop three big guys and pass.  There's no way to get my Vamp before my turn two activation of Bazaar unless I don't cast Songs, so I just blind bazaar, drop some guys, play a land, and pass with intent to Vamp on their endstep for Living Death.  I vamp on the end step as I planned (because it's a goldfish after all) and get Living Death.  I untap, Songs, and Death.  There's no backup for it.
Again, conclusion:
Loses to everything I listed above.  And again, utterly zero resistance from me to stop it.



And to demonstrate how terrible this is, I've also picked up some goldfish hands from other decks.  I give them a three turn window with no resistance (as you provide none) to see if they can find something that beats you.

GAT:
Hand one:  Delta, Sea, Sea, Force, Truth, Walk, Regrowth.  Easy keep, and with one piece of resistance, you lose to it.  If I were actually concerned about you recovering, I can just Regrowth my Force.
Hand two:  Duress, Sea, Emerald, Brainstorm, Drain, Walk, Misdirection.  Duress will probably beat you, but if it doesn't I can just brainstorm, which nets Merchant Scroll and the land to go get Force and beat you.
Hand three:  Sapphire, Brainstorm, Opt, Will, Gush, Drain, Cunning Wish.  I lead with Sapphire Opt, and see Force.  I can keep it and just win, but to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll look for land as I would if I didn't know what you were playing.  It doesn't show up on the opt, but I topdeck an Island to put Drain online which beats you.  If I brainstorm, I find a fetchland and a Duress, so I beat you more.

Bomberman:
Hand one:  Force, Thirst, Truth, Brainstorm, Brainstorm, Tundra, Jet.  Easy keep, and as above, I have a Force of Will and you lose to it.  On my draw step I see a fetchland, and if I brainstorm I find Trinket Mage.  On turn three this will get Tormods and you'll lose more.
Hand two:  Tundra, Tundra, Sol Ring, Salvager, Brainstorm, Gifts, Ruins.  I lead with Sol Ring, and burn a second turn Brainstorm.  It finds Lotus and Trinket Mage, which is cute, but since I already have Salvager I don't need hate.  I just play him and go infinite, using the Trinket to get Spellbomb and combo you out.
Hand three:  Strip Mine, Library, Tormods, Drain, Brainstorm, Sol Ring, Tundra.  I don't even need to pay mana to win with this hand.

Workshop Prison:
Hand one:  I'm not even going to type out all the cards.  It has turn one Sphere, with a Wasteland.
Hand two:  Turn one Chalice, with Strip Mine.
Hand three:  Turn one Trinisphere.

[Anusien]

So to recap, this is like Flash but instead of devoting 16 slots to the combo, it has to devote 32?  It then necessarily runs fewer disruption cards and loses to more.  At least Dredge can dodge most Spheres, and has Leyline, Unmask and Cabal Therapy as well as reasonable backup plans.

[Shock Wave]

Normally I'd just ignore you because the "test it for serious!" argument is, as a rule of thumb, one of the very worst.  However, I'll humor you.

Wow, go ahead and shatter another dream, why don't you? ... cruel, soulless being. Why don't you go and pop some unsuspecting toddler's balloon or something?  . It's sad times when the old "Test my l33t deck that I've never played except on MWS and at a local 4 man tourney!" argument rears its ugly head and is debunked in short order.

This is coming from a person that has obviously never played this deck. Please proxy this up on MWS before making further assumptions, I beg you. You will then realize that with a Bazaar of Baghdad, anything's possible. 

Many of the people on this site have been playing Vintage probably half as long as you've been alive, if not longer. We've all had moments where we think we've struck the innovation jackpot only to figure out that our idea is worth less than two shits. It happens. How can you confirm whether or not your idea is terrible? Test your deck! Start with MWS. If you can't win the majority of your games on there, it's safe to say that either your deck or your gameplay is terrible. Now here's the catch: If your deck does well during MWS testing, do not immediately assume that it is viable. Play it in a real, 20+ player event. If you can't T8 a 20 man event, it's not looking good. Now let's assume that you T8 a 20-ish man event. Now, the next hurdle is to T8 a large event. If you can manage to do this, you then have the privilege of using statements like "You haven't played this deck and therefore need to test it."

Personally, I would never ask the community to test an idea of mine for the purpose of validating its effectiveness. I think a good benchmark is 2 T8 performances in fields of 60+ players. If you can do that, you're definitely on to something, and at that point, why do you need anyone's approval? It's one thing to share an idea you have and the results of its application, but its another thing to ask people to do your homework for you.

The people on this site are serious Vintage players. They've seen and heard it all when it comes to new ideas, and can pick an awful deck out with uncanny accuracy. Keep in mind that the burden of proof is on you, not the community, to demonstrate the viability of your idea.

[Elric]

For anyone who wants a look at Cavius (originally named Son of Satan) from 3 1/2 years ago, here's Avatar Oath.dec: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=20143.msg323490.  Kowal, posts like yours almost certainly won't work and are a bit of a waste of time, except for the high amusement factor.

[Tareth]

Alright, so we've established that the current build is terrible to say the least.

That doesn't mean we can't try to help out.

My initial suggestions:

-Add Serum Powders
-Add Cabal Therapy/Unmask
-Add a more reliable way to cast your creatures if your original plan gets stopped
-Add fetches, lose the Land Grants

[Shock Wave]

Alright, so we've established that the current build is terrible to say the least.

That doesn't mean we can't try to help out.

My initial suggestions:

-Add Serum Powders
-Add Cabal Therapy/Unmask
-Add a more reliable way to cast your creatures if your original plan gets stopped
-Add fetches, lose the Land Grants

There is absolutely no reason to play this deck instead of Ichorid once you add Serum Powder and Cabal Therapy/Unmask. Ichorid does everything this deck does, except infinitely better. Sometimes you just have to accept that an idea isn't going to work. There's nothing wrong with trying to improve an archetype, but for serious Vintage play, this just isn't going to cut it.

For anyone who wants a look at Cavius (originally named Son of Satan) from 3 1/2 years ago, here's Avatar Oath.dec: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=20143.msg323490.  Kowal, posts like yours almost certainly won't work and are a bit of a waste of time, except for the high amusement factor.

Oh noes!

[Tareth]

Just tryin' to help 

[hauntedechos]

Not to get off track here, but I will have to go with Shockwave on this one.

I once had a dream of:

x4 Myr retriver
x4 Ashnod's Alter/KCI
x4 Diciple of the vault
4 tutors
and Tinker/fabricate to create an infinite win, wether multiplayer or not.

What was said to me (despite there being another sould trying to make this happen on the mana drain), was that, why play this multi card combo, when dragon exists?  why play this over Bomberman? or any other comboish deck out there.  I belive it was MoxLotus telling me this.  I scrapped it, because they were right, even though the pet deck was helluh fun to play and was my own personal creation (though others had seen the combo as well obv.).

That aside, I think that creating decks in Vintage is incredibly important to a players development.  It excersises consideration to the meta game and also raises awareness to hoser cards and pin points glaring weakness' to archtypes that share elements to your own creation - in this case, Ichorid and others that abuse the yard.  Sometimes the best starting point is to simply take an exsisting deck and make a couple card changes for testing purposes.  Card changes that change the dynamic of the deck in question, the dynamic change is what might lead to an overhaul of an existing deck and give birth to a new breed...IE Tidespout Oath, MUD and  aggro shop.

I'd say keep trying to innovate and you might just come up with something that is new and refreshing, possibly change the meta if it's popular enough.  To be honest, Kowal's responses were bretty harsh and soul crushing, but in the end, I think he's saving the creator time from continuing down a possible dead end road with this deck.  To further attack him for brutal honesty isn't doing the creator of this post any good.

Haunted.

[twault]

I attempted to make your deck a little more stable, yet retain some of the speed that you claim is around turn 3. I think turn 3 is pushing it. This build might not be as fragile, but it's by NO means competitive. This is the best I could do while trying to keep your deck intact for the most part. I think it's a little better than what you proposed, but it's still not going to T8 at a good tourney.

Land:16
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island

Spells:29
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Buried Alive
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Living Death
2 Exhume
4 Thoughtseize
1 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Intuition
4 Pact of Negation
1 Echoing Truth
2 Life From the Loam
1 Regrowth

Creatures:8
4 Hermit Druid
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Platinum Angel

Artifacts: 7
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

Sideboard:15
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Pithing Needle

Here's my explanations:

Bazaar & Hermit Druid basically have the same goal - throwing your creatures in the yard. I added Exhume, because you can drop it on turn 2 with a Bazaar activation on turn 1 (dropping a creature). Chalice for 0 is a great play (especially against Flash), and Chalice for 1 only shuts off about 7 cards in your main. Both are good plays against most decks. Life from Loam is another yard dumper, but it also recurs your wasted lands. Intuition is really good, because you can pretty much get what you want. Like I said, it's not competitive, but I think it would be slightly better than what you proposed. Mainly, because you had too many creatures/cards that aren't playable in normal casting terms and rely solely on graveyard recursion, which makes them dead draws. The only thing I regret is not finding space for more draw.

[Cavius The Great]

I attempted to make your deck a little more stable, yet retain some of the speed that you claim is around turn 3. I think turn 3 is pushing it. This build might not be as fragile, but it's by NO means competitive. This is the best I could do while trying to keep your deck intact for the most part. I think it's a little better than what you proposed, but it's still not going to T8 at a good tourney.

Land:16
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Island

Spells:29
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Buried Alive
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Living Death
2 Exhume
4 Thoughtseize
1 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Intuition
4 Pact of Negation
1 Echoing Truth
2 Life From the Loam
1 Regrowth

Creatures:8
4 Hermit Druid
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Razia, Boros Archangel
1 Platinum Angel

Artifacts: 7
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire

Sideboard:15
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Pithing Needle

Here's my explanations:

Bazaar & Hermit Druid basically have the same goal - throwing your creatures in the yard. I added Exhume, because you can drop it on turn 2 with a Bazaar activation on turn 1 (dropping a creature). Chalice for 0 is a great play (especially against Flash), and Chalice for 1 only shuts off about 7 cards in your main. Both are good plays against most decks. Life from Loam is another yard dumper, but it also recurs your wasted lands. Intuition is really good, because you can pretty much get what you want. Like I said, it's not competitive, but I think it would be slightly better than what you proposed. Mainly, because you had too many creatures/cards that aren't playable in normal casting terms and rely solely on graveyard recursion, which makes them dead draws. The only thing I regret is not finding space for more draw.

This is just Reanimator. It doesn't resemble Turbo Death whatsoever. Plus the power level is really low.

I agree with the comments that Ichorid is better, but Turbo Death is rogue and alot more fun to play. I seriously want to build the deck just to have fun at a local Vintage tournament, and to be honest, there isn't a doubt in my mind that I can win in a scrubby environment with this deck. I also believe that it can Top8 in moderately large tournaments becuase PoliceHQ has already done this before, and with an inferior build.

Here's my latest list for reference. I cut green for consistency.

// Lands
    4  Bazaar of Baghdad
    3  Bloodstained Mire
    3  Polluted Delta
    3  Swamp
    1  Badlands

// Creatures
    1  Rorix Bladewing
    1  Spirit of the Night
    4  Brimstone Dragon
    4  Blistering Firecat
    4  Ball Lightning
    1  Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    4  Ashen Monstrosity
    2  Stalking Vengeance
    3  Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
    2  Pact of Negation
    1  Demonic Consultation
    2  Goblin Lore
    4  Living Death
    4  Songs of the Damned
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Chrome Mox
    3  Thoughtseize
    1  Cabal Ritual

// Sideboard
SB: 2  Pact of Negation
SB: 1  Thoughtseize
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 4  Ghastly Demise
SB: 3  Pithing Needle
SB: 1  Sudden Shock

The main changes involve splashing red for Goblin Lore, SSG, Mox Ruby so that I can also cast a first turn Demonic Tutor or Goblin Lore. The list is pretty much the same concept but with a red splash instead of green. I'm also running Thoughtseize for additiional disruption. Let me know what you guys think of this build.

[bait_bludgeon]

play ichorid and ditch this. ill give you two reasons why.

-your deck crumbles way too easily to hate as a opposed to ichorid which can stand a chance.
-ichorid is a tier 1.5 deck. it almost always top8's and is obnoxious. why would you try and run any other type of reanimate deck?

[Masta]

Wow, please some Moderator close this topic and stop the pain!

The amount of brutal truth in this topic may thwart someone from continuing to play Magic.  I feel that all of the replies thus far have been just, and in a way provoked, but damn.  Please let it stop!

V/R
Masta

[Cavius The Great]

Wow, please some Moderator close this topic and stop the pain!

The amount of brutal truth in this topic may thwart someone from continuing to play Magic.  I feel that all of the replies thus far have been just, and in a way provoked, but damn.  Please let it stop!

V/R
Masta

It's pretty ironic that your post, was by far, the most annoying post on this thread. I admitted that this was a semi-competitive deck that's main purpose is to have fun.

On another note, can someone post the most optimal Ichorid deck you can find, on this thread? I want to draw comparisons.

[Anusien]

So according to your posts in the thread, the deck is perfect and none of our comments are relevant in the least?  And we need like a year of experience playing the deck in order to make any comments.

Therefore, why did you both to post at all?  Or is this just, "See this super-awesome deck I made and play it!"?  Because the whole "My deck is perfect and I need no feedback" attitude deters people from posting at all, or taking your deck seriously.

[Cavius The Great]

@Anusien - Did you totally ignore my last post.

This is a fun deck!

If you want to play something rogue that's somewhat competitive then I'd suggest it. If not, it will be my pet deck for ages to come. You don't have to think it's good, I posted it because I wanted to brainstorm ideas based on variations of the combo but people seem to think that I envision myself as the Supreme Magic Ruler Of Dominaria. Really, I don't. But you can label me that if you wish. 

[Fraggle]

Cavius here is the thing.  I'm a new user to this site, and I can't make heads or tails of it.  The Vintage Improvement Forum (from my brief week or so of trying the site reading old posts, posing my own ideas, and pleas for help) has primarily become a place for hard core Vintage tournament players to discuss / debate minute details of known archetypes.

I doesn't look like The Mana Drain was always that way though. Take your Super Enchantress Bloom post in the Legacy Forum of years past for example:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27993.msg434220

Everyone was supportive, made suggestions, and made a better deck.  I wonder what has changed?  ...or are the two forums just that different?

I like your deck, I don't think it can win big tournaments YET, but it's certainly food for thought when new cards come into the game or other more popular ones get restricted.

Remember most innovation happens on accident.

Keep playing around with it, and PLEASE keep posting them.  Just in case something in the format changes enough where others can pick up where you left off.

It looks like many will bash you, and others will want the thread deleted, but I enjoyed reading it, and I'm sure there are others out there too who are feeling the same.

If your up to it I'd love to hear what you have to say about enchantress in Vintage these days, especially with Super Enchantress Bloom under your belt.