Vintage Goblins

[nero angelo]

Hi, I'm fairly new to this forums, actually this is my 1st post. But I've been brosing this forums for atleast a month.

I want to ask people about my deck. It is Vial Goblins/Vintage Goblins/Goblines, whichever name you prefer.

Any comments would be usefull. But please try not to bash it.  

Anyways, without further boring stuff to read, here's my list:

Main:

4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Mogg Fanatic
3x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Matron
2x Siegegang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Stingscourer

4x Aether Vial
4x Leyline of the Void

1x Mox Diamond (I have no Power cards, sorry)
1x Lotus Petal
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
1x Stripmine
3x Rishadan Port
2x Barbarian Ring
6x Mountain

Sideboards:

3x Shattering Spree (I do HATE Staxx)
3x Magus of the Moon (for non-basics, ofcourse)
3x Thorn of Amethyst (Storm? Belcher?)
3x Sudden Shock (Tog? Dryads?)
3x Pyrostatic Pillar (Storm? Fish? to some extent, GroATog...)





Actually, the original version was R/W (With 4x Plateaus and 4x StP Main instead of 4x Leylines and 2x Barbarian rings & 2x Mountains... Sides contains Disenchants, LotV instead of Shattering Sprees and Pyrostatic Pillars...)

here are the results:


Vs. Stompy...

More wins, but sometimes winter orb locks me down... The real problem is when the player starts overwhelming me w/ critters and steroids (Bounty and G Growth...)

Vs. Staxx

Omg. Either it is a bad day to play red, or it is really a bad matchup at all...
Just about when I think about winning, suddenly the guy drew up Memory Jar. 

standing: 5:1... 5 on his favor...

Vs. Suicide Black

I used to Run StP here... Well, got no real problems PRE-BOARD. After boarding, Engineered Plague owns me... (Unless I boarded my Disenchant in the R/W Build)

Vs. Tinker

Yeah, I know, the deck is dead. I lost because of Mis-play... I tapped the Underground Sea instead of Tolarian Academy. Result? Yawgmoth's Win, or rather, Yawgmoth's Will resolved and recurred everything that is to be recurred.

Vs. Madness

Win 99.9% of the time. No problem w/ this...

Vs. U/W Fish

Won 1 match, lost 1 match (damn Jotun Grunt) 1 is draw... (We are playing at a place where there is a sanctioned standard tournament, the tournament is about to start so we need to leave the tables...)

Vs. Proteus Staff

Balanced match. I pray that Akroma don't show up...

[aosquirrels]

It would be very helpful if you would include with your decklist some sort of discussion regarding the problems you may have been having with it.  Then we could make suggestions.  Otherwise...your decklist looks pretty standard.  You may consider Pyrokinesis in the sideboard to have an instant answer to Flash.

[nero angelo]

^

oh yeah, let me edit it for a while...

tnx!

[AmbivalentDuck]

Also, Goblins has traditionally been *strong* against Stax.  I highly suggest looking at past lists and including Earwig Squad.

[nero angelo]

ok, I edited the list... I splashed  color...

Anyways, here is the list I came up with:


=========
Mains:

4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Mogg Fanatic
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Matron
2x Siegegang Commander
3x Earwig Squad
1x Stingscourer

4x Aether Vial
4x Leyline of the Void


1x Lotus Petal
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Wasteland
1x Stripmine
3x Rishadan Port
3x Badlands
4x Mountain
1x Swamp

=========
Sides:

3x Shattering Spree
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Pyrokinesis/Cabal Theraphy/Thoughtsieze/Duress/Sudden Shock
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
=========


What do you think? better? worse? 

[BC]

What do you think? better? worse? 

It looks like a very good build.  I am concerned that it is light on mana, though.  You have 20 sources (one is Lotus Petal) +4 Aether Vial.  I would play at least 22 sources if it was me, making up the difference with additional fetchlands (assuming you can't add moxes).  Also, I don't think you want to play a basic Swamp.  You need red mana too much.  I would probably go:

-1 Swamp
-1 Incinerator
-1 Siege Gang
+ 3 Wooded Foothills

Other than that it looks solid.

[xycsoscyx]

Especially in Vintage, if you're splashing Black, I would also suggest Warren Weirding.  Against things like GAT, it gets rid of their usually single Dryad (or Goyf), it gets rid of Colossus, it gets rid of Stax creatures (since they usually only have a few out at once, though Stax should already be a good matchup).

[kicks_422]

Have you tried out the Rbg build that I posted at 8threalms? How did it work out for you?

I've found SGC to be generally weak in Vintage. It's probably the biggest thing you can drop down after a Lackey hits, but without Lackey, it's too slow. Up Earwig to 4, since it's really the biggest disruption piece that Goblins have right now.

[hauntedechos]

How does Goblins address e.Plauges?

Haunted.

[nero angelo]

How does Goblins address e.Plauges?

Haunted.

At hauntedechoes:

That is the reason I don't want to drop white....
But most of them tells me that Earwig Squad is good. Now, I'm quite confused...

Actually, the original thing looks like this:

=========
Mains:

4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Warchief
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Mogg Fanatic
3x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Matron
2x Siegegang Commander
1x Kiki-Jiki, the Mirror Breaker
1x Stingscourer

4x Aether Vial
4x Swords to Plowshares


1x Lotus Petal
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
1x Stripmine
3x Rishadan Port
4x Plateau
5x Mountain
=========
Sides:

4x Leyline of the Void
3x Magus of the Moon
3x Thorn of Amethyst
4x Disenchant
1x Goblin Tinkerer
=========

Atleast, that was the original build to deal w/ plagues and Oath before Simic Sky Swallower arrived... >.<

At kicks_422:

Hey, you're here as well... Nope, haven't tried that approach yet.

[kicks_422]

How does Goblins address e.Plauges?

Haunted.

A. Continue to bash in for the final points of damage with Warchiefs/Piledrivers/Ringleaders/Squads.
B. Nuke them with Krosan Grip (which helps against Oath as well).
C. Don't let them cast it (Wastelands, Strip Mine, Tin-Street Hooligan).

At kicks_422:

Hey, you're here as well... Nope, haven't tried that approach yet.

Try it out. I've been owning with it online... If only I get enough cash right away to build it in real life. 

[nero angelo]

At kicks_422:

yeah, money is sort of a problem... hahaha

Anyways, you suggested a 3 color goblin, right? RBG?

[Liiva]

If you're afraid of engineered plague, then you could run a goblin king. Anyways, someone at a local tournament here made top 8 with a RGBU list (blue splash for ancestral recall and timewalk), here's his list:

Creatures
  4 Goblin Lackey
  4 Goblin Vandal
  4 Goblin Piledriver
  4 Goblin Warchief
  4 Goblin Matron
  4 Goblin Ringleader
  4 Earwig Squad
  1 Goblin Tinkerer
  3 Gempalm Incinerator

Spells
  1 Mox Ruby
  1 Mox Jet
  1 Mana Crypt
  1 Sol Ring
  1 Black Lotus
  1 Time Walk
  1 Ancestral Recall
  4 AEther Vial
  1 Warren Weirding

Lands
  4 Bloodstained Mire
  4 Wooded Foothills
  2 Badlands
  2 Taiga
  2 Mountain
  1 Ancient Tomb
  1 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
  3 Goblin Tinkerer
  4 Krosan Grip
  1 Skirk Prospector
  1 Goblin Pyromancer
  1 Goblin King
  1 Goblin Sharpshooter
  4 Cabal Therapy

Good luck with your deck

[nero angelo]

^

interesting list... but how does it answer to Flash and Ichorid?

@Goblin King...

King dies into 2 plagues, so as your little red men



anyways, any suggestions on what list should I take? I expect the meta next tourney (next week, april 3) to be:

Fish, Shop (be it Staxx or aggro, most likely Staxx), Storm, Sui Black, Oaths and Ichorid. Maybe a little appearances from Flash and GaT... and ofcourse, some random rogue decks.

Ichorid and Storm (And Flash) should be a fair matchup provided I landed LotV on turn 0. And post-board w/ Pillars...

Staxx, quite the pain if I didn't have Lackey/Vial opening or he goes, Workshop, 3sphere, go... >.<

Sui Black is bad AFTER boarding. (I do expect them to run E.Plagues...)

Oath... who the hell invented SSS? I curse thee... really...

[kicks_422]

@Liiva
That list looks really strong. How did Goblin Vandal fare for him, BTW? I've cut Vandal for Hooligan in my build, since having to attack to destroy an artifact is too slow for me, and Hooligan hits harder. The repeatability of Vandal is some good though, as well as being able to power out Squad as early as Turn 2 with him.

@nero angelo
For your mono-red build (and our meta, from what you said), I'd suggest this:

MD
-1 Kiki-Jiki (too win-more)
-2 SGC (depends too much on Lackey)
-1 Mox Diamond
+1 Stingscourger
+1 Mogg Fanatic (bomb against Ichorid)
+1 Gempalm Incinerator
+1 Sol Ring

And then run an SB like this:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Shattering Spree
4 Greater Gargadon/Goblin Bombardment/Spawning Pit (your choice of Oath hoser)
3 up to you

[nero angelo]

^

yes, I was planning to remove kiki jiki... pretty useless...

SGC? I don't think so, in removing the 2 of them... Provides permanents to Sac w/ Smokestack and Provides +2/+0 for Piledriver, forcing them to block it.

Mox Diamond, yep, out of the list.

I will add:

1 Stingscourer (plus pray that oath doesn't pack akroma/SSS >.<)

1 random card (ssg/gempalm/fanatic)


My planned SB is this, since I have limited time in gathering Gargadon and Chalice...

4 Shattering Spree
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Thorn of Amethyst/Ensnaring Bridge
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Random card (Sting/Gempalm/Fanatic/Ensnaring Bridge/Sharpshooter)

Though, I might get rid of Thorn for Bridges...

[kicks_422]

How often are you going to drop SGC early on to matter in a Vintage environment? It's too slow if you hardcast it, so the only reliable way of putting it into play is via a Lackey hit. And if a Lackey hits, you're already on you're way to winning no matter what you drop off it, especially against Stax.

But if you love SGC too much, then go right ahead. 

[nero angelo]

^

hehehe

I don't like it that much, It just cranks up Piledriver to insane +2/+0's, thus forcing most opponents to block it.

SGC also stopps a mass of goblins (FCG is still alive, I think) and to some extent, kills Fish's creatures.

I don't know though. Haven't tested the deck w/o them

PS:

What is your stand on Ensnaring Bridge?

[playkenny]

Ive been testing some goblins (RB, RU, RBg) versions for a while, and i was wondering, for those testing earwig squad, do you feel that more artifact mana is required? or at least prospectors/frogtossers?

Also, some builds are using green mainly for krosan grips in SB (oath) and MD Tinstreet Hooligins. Has anyone found personal success with this? (i.e. without quoting decklists which won).

SGC vs Eaqwig Squad

In most builds, it seems that SGC is replacing/making space for E.Squad. Is that the basis/thought process when designing your deck?

With most RB builds maindecking Leylines (for flash and Ich), i find that dropping SGC turn 2 sures up the flash match (but the same can be said with Esquad). The only difference is that you need to cast the squad (sometimes lands/warchiefs matter). There are also instances where casting and not lackying matters --> pact squad, chain the leyline which was tutored for in the first turn, then flash with trigger on stack. With the SGC on the table, you can shoot the feeder/slivers in resp. and also have a decent racing clock vs the 6/6 body double/karmic guide+kiki. SGC also helps with the Ichorid Match (i.e. blocking and removing bridges).

I'm not saying one is better than the other, just wanted to know if the people cutting SGC has the same thought process as myself, and if so, what am i missing. Are you all just disregarding the flash/ich match and relying on leylines + quick clock to win?

BTW, i am in agreement that 4 earwig squads are required between Main and SB due to oath making a major appearance in the format.

[unicoerner]

My current List looks like that:

Creatures
  4 Goblin Lackey
  1 skirk Prospector
  4 Goblin Piledriver
  4 Goblin Warchief
  3 Goblin Matron
  3 Goblin Ringleader
  4 Earwig Squad
  2 Gempalm Incinerator
  1 Siege gang
  1 Goblin Sharpshooter
Spells
  1 Mox Ruby
  1 Mox Jet
  1 mana Crypt
  4 Thoughtseize
  1 Lotus petal
  1 Black Lotus
  4 Thorn of Amethyst
 

Lands
  3 Bloodstained Mire
  2 Wooded Foothills
 4 Badlands
 4 wastelands
4 Mountain
1 Strip
2 Simian Spirit Guide

For me this deck doesn´t work, i don´t know why. I played FCG for 3 years and was quite succesfull with them.
I think one of my problems is the low count of 1-drop-Goblins. Perhaps i should add some Vandals. Another problem is, that i don´t want to waste my second turn to drop a Thorn of amethyst. Furthermore i am not sure about the Wastelands, i am screwed myself quite often.
Atm i am very unhappy with the build.

Could you give me some improvemt tipps, plz.

 

[kicks_422]

Ive been testing some goblins (RB, RU, RBg) versions for a while, and i was wondering, for those testing earwig squad, do you feel that more artifact mana is required? or at least prospectors/frogtossers?

Also, some builds are using green mainly for krosan grips in SB (oath) and MD Tinstreet Hooligins. Has anyone found personal success with this? (i.e. without quoting decklists which won).

In my unpowered build, I run 4 Earwigs with 4 Prospectors and 1 Sol Ring for a Turn 2 possibility and 8 2-drops (Piledriver and Hooligan) for Turn 3. Some say it's too much, but I personally think it's the righ tnumber since earwig is such a great tool for Goblins in Vintage.

As mentioned, I run 4 Hooligans MD and 4 Grips SB as my only green cards. It doesn't hurt at all to run the extra color.

SGC vs Eaqwig Squad

In most builds, it seems that SGC is replacing/making space for E.Squad. Is that the basis/thought process when designing your deck?

I dropped SGC even before Earwig was printed, since in Vintage the only reliable way of getting it into play early for it to matter is through a Lackey hit (or Black Lotus, but like I said I'm unpowered). I went searching for a replacement beater and settled for Goblin Goon for a while. Also at the time, I felt that the deck needed more disruption outside of the 4Waste/1 Strip configuration along with the occassional MD Chalice/Leyline/Vandals/Hooligans. When Earwig was printed, it solved all those problems for me at once.

Also, SGC would matter less now with Flash going with the Reveillark kill.

[diabetesman]

hey there this is how im running my gobo list

Creatures

goblin lackey-4
goblin warchief-4
goblin matron-4
goblin piledriver-4
goblin ringleader-4
earwig squard-2
mogg fanatic-2
siege-gang commander-1
goblin shapshooter-1
tin street hooligan-1
stingscourger-1
gempalm incinerator-1

Spells
mox ruby-1
mox jet-1
black lotus-1
aether vial-4
leyline of the void-4

Lands
badlands-4
taiga-2
wooded foothills-3
bloodstained mire-4
wasteland-4
strip mine-1
mountain-2

Side Board
earwig squard-1
tin street hooligan-2
krosan grib-3
pyrostatic pillar-4
pyroblast-1
red elemental blast-2
pyrokinesis or blood moon-2 (havent thought of which is better cause theres alot of fish out by me so im more aimed towards pyro.

[Dante]

Welcome to TMD!  Since we already have an active thread about Goblins in the forum, you should post in that thread.  Please note that randomly posting decklists in threads without any real explanation is frowned upon.  Check out the rules and "What TMD is about" threads at http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?board=28.0

Welcome!