[Deck-Unspo]Yawgmoth's oath

[MyrSlaver]

Hi to everyone!

First, this is my first post, then please be patient with me.^^'

Second: let me introduce this deck:

Yawgmoth's oath

Manabase(20):

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Flooded Strand

1 sol ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal

Creatures(1):

1 Platinum Angel

Condoms(13):

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
3 mana leak
4 Duress

Tutors & drawers(16):

4 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
3 ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

The real bombs(6):

4 Oath of Druids
1 Fastbond
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Things that are only woods(1):

1 krosan reclamation

Winner spell(1):

1 Tendrils of Agony


*What the hell is that list* you'll say.

Well, we all know oath of druids is mad to be played as unspo and the aggro-team akroma/razia is too slow now.
As  I love oath, but I don't have the spoilers, i tried to do a list which could be fast, but at the same time able to control the match.
As this deck was unspoilered, I knew that I couldn't have a draw-engine intu-ak based. It would have been too slow. So I tried to enable the gush-engine in a oath-unpowa deck (yes, everyone tried gush in a tyrant oath, but I'm unspo!  )
What was the result?
That engine looked perfectly suitable with oath, cause I could draw a lot of cards and get more mana.
*But gush.dec and oath aren't good without spoilers*
Yes, but the more I play that list, the more I know we don't need them. The only one I would love to have is ancy, which lets us a great card-advantage.
You would kill me if I didn't explain my choices, so let's look better at the list.


Manabase(21):

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Flooded Strand

1 sol ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal

I tried different manabases, and that seems very good. We have 7 fetches because I want the right mana color at the right time. Oh, and I always abuse the shuffling propriety they have. Sometimes makes my BS better than ancy by shuffling the "fuffa" we sometimes have in our hand.
20 lands. I have problems whit mana screw only because I'm very unlucky, but that's the right number.
PetalCryptRing: we need a lil' acceleration. Sol Ring helps us to have 5 mana to win in 2 turns after casted oath(later...).



Creatures(1):

1 Platinum Angel

I'll talk later about that choice.


Condoms(10):

4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
3 mana leak
4 Duress

That's the point which I have more doubts. I have enough protections, but i hate mana leak...the cc2 makes me cry...
2 Mis-D. They are like FoW when they are protecting us, but sometimes are only a "kiodo". But they are cc0 counters, which helps me a lot.
Duress and FoWs...

Tutors & drawers(16):

4 Merchant Scroll
4 Brainstorm
4 Gush
2 ponder
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

We have 3 merchant scrool and 4 gush to use that draw-engine. Merchant scroll is the card you always want in the hand. Makes us able to search gush, FoW, BS, Mystical-> Yawwin, Mystical->DT/VT (ok, that's crazy, but sometimes I do that).
BS...
Ponder: Sometimes I'd like to have some more of them, sometimes I don't. 2 Is the right number, with 3 you'd usually have 3 drawers in your hand (awful, cause we don't have enought mana).
DT/VT/MT...
Gush...

The real bombs(6):

4 Oath of Druids
1 Fastbond
1 Yawgmoth's Will

That's my favourite part!
Usually, when I'm casting one of them I am in a very good situation.
Oath: I'll talk later about that.
Fastbond: The spell you'll always like to see. Lets us have some more mana, draw, do the combo (later...), etc...


Things that are only woods(1):

1 krosan reclamation

The card you'd never like to see in the first hand.

Winner spell(1):

1 Tendrils of Agony

Usual combo stuff.

Sideboard(15):

4 leyline of the void
3 chalice of the void
3 pithing needle
2 Simic sky swallower
1 rebuild
1 hurkyl's recall
1 Fire/Ice

4 leyline because manaless and flash aren't a good match up
3 chalice cause are a sideable good lock against spoilered players. It also help us against flash.
2 SSS B plan
1 rebuild and 1 hurkyl: 1 suffer chalice at 3, the other one chalice at 2. So I use both of them.
1 Fire/Ice Against MOTM, weldy, etc...

Why platz oath, will and tendrils?
Cause you can win by doin' that:

orchard, Oath, pass.
Oath triggers, platz, pass.
Oath triggers, krosan's flashback for will, will(if you have enough mana), lotus petal, fastbond, win.

With platz in play, the oppo has got a very bad "palo", that lets us time to do the passages up-there.

With platz in play, we can use gush even if we don't have cards in our library, so we'll get enough mana and spells to cast a killer tendril.
Also, you can win by beatin' with platz.
Also, you can have a gush-chain, merchant for mystical, mystical for will, win.
Also you can win with oath even if platz is in the graveyard. You'll have enough mana to cast it and then make the gush-chain.
Also, but very difficult, you can win with oath even if platz is not in play, by casting 9 spell under will and then cast tendrils.

So, as you can see, we have many ways to win.
The best thing is that you always draw at least one card that makes us able to win.
By testing, I think the race we have is really fast. We usually win at the 3/4 or 5 turn. Very good for un unspo deck. And we even have a bit of control.

Uff, finished. Hope someone has something to suggest!
Byebye!

[Hillboy]

Will (if you have enough mana) doesn't sound too good. what if you don't? What is the speed on this? undisrupted win would be turn 5? I think I understand the idea and I kinda like it but I think you might want chrome mox and mox diamond to give you a chance of turn 1 oath. that or chalice of the void to slow your opponent and to help stop tormods crypt.

and to clarify the combo goes turn 1 oath pass, turn two oath up platinum angel (keep those fow handy),turn 3 oath again, turn 4 krosan reclamation, "put yawg's will on the library if lucky cast a spell to draw it, turn 5 play it, fastbond play spells from the yard for storm and tendrils. so with a god hand you can go off turn 5 (later if you didn't have forbidden orchard lotus petal oath in the opening hand)

What spells would you play from the yard? draw and tutor, more oaths? for storm? I guess just whatever is in there.

It's neat but like the decks I play its probably too slow and easily disrupted.

[MyrSlaver]

Will (if you have enough mana) doesn't sound too good. what if you don't? What is the speed on this? undisrupted win would be turn 5? I think I understand the idea and I kinda like it but I think you might want chrome mox and mox diamond to give you a chance of turn 1 oath. that or chalice of the void to slow your opponent and to help stop tormods crypt.

and to clarify the combo goes turn 1 oath pass, turn two oath up platinum angel (keep those fow handy),turn 3 oath again, turn 4 krosan reclamation, "put yawg's will on the library if lucky cast a spell to draw it, turn 5 play it, fastbond play spells from the yard for storm and tendrils. so with a god hand you can go off turn 5 (later if you didn't have forbidden orchard lotus petal oath in the opening hand)

What spells would you play from the yard? draw and tutor, more oaths? for storm? I guess just whatever is in there.

It's neat but like the decks I play its probably too slow and easily disrupted.

-will is the bomb you'd always see. We don't use it the early-turns, but only when we have fastbond with some gush on the graveyard, which is always gg. or when we have all the deck in the graveyard thanks to oath. It's our winning spell the 99% times.
The moxes has got a heavy drawback. One of my problem is that we don't draw too much unless with gushes. And they also destroy my strategy cause:

-if i use chrome mox i have to leave a drawer ponder-like, but I can't because I have to search for a tutor, a merchant or directly for fastbond/oath.
-if i use mox diamond, I have to increase the number of lands, because with only 17 lands i can't have 2 island to cast the gush. And 21 is THE number of lands. 22 I find too much of them when i cast gush, 20 too low.

-no, the combo works like that:

oath, pass.
oath, platz.
oath, before acquisition krosan's flashback putting will over the deck. Draw will. Cast will, petal, fastbond&win if you have 5 mana. If not:
cast will, lotus petal/land, fastbond, win.

So I can win at turn 4, but i don't play like that.
you have those more passages:

turn 4 krosan reclamation, "put yawg's will on the library if lucky cast a spell to draw it, turn 5 play it

But usually, the first turn I use duress/BS, ponder. Then the 2nd turn I usually put a bomb (fastbond/oath) or tutor one of them. If I have even only one gush, usually i tutor fastbond. Against artifact decks or aggro/aggro-control decks i prefere tutoring oath. If i have a merchant and not even a tutor, i take MT with merchant, before acquisition i cast it for a tutor, then i use one of this tutor to search a bomb. Those're only a few description about my gameplan. I never play a match like another one.
But I don't win only with oath: oath is a great spell that lets me an advantage. It isn't difficult even have a gush-chain that lets you cast a 9 spell tendrils.
I even have a control configuration, as normal Toath.

-It's not slow if you know how to play it. I usually win at the 4th turn if I'm going to storm, and at the 5th/6th if i cast oath and use a control configuration.
And it isn't even so much disrupted, cause every our spell is periculous.

I have changed my decklist:

-1 ponder
-2 spell snare

+3 mana leak

Byebye!

[Thicketman]

You might want to give Eternal Witness some thought.

[Lemnear]

The deck was actually played a years ago, back then with rituals and 1-2 eternal whitness to grab Will and combo out by casting moxen from the grave, Play rituals then bounce moxen via chain of vapour and finish with tendrils. The build seems very solid but vanished due to it's reliability on the grave and the ol' problem to find Oath, Orchard and unlike today, protection for your grave and your Will.

But that was history. In gerneral: Platz is no thread to TSOath or Flash ... so it's no thread to the metagame ... just a Tier2 ... moreover you'll play at least 2 Platz or any kind of bounce or spot-removal will own you

[MyrSlaver]

The deck was actually played a years ago, back then with rituals and 1-2 eternal whitness to grab Will and combo out by casting moxen from the grave, Play rituals then bounce moxen via chain of vapour and finish with tendrils. The build seems very solid but vanished due to it's reliability on the grave and the ol' problem to find Oath, Orchard and unlike today, protection for your grave and your Will.

But that was history. In gerneral: Platz is no thread to TSOath or Flash ... so it's no thread to the metagame ... just a Tier2 ... moreover you'll play at least 2 Platz or any kind of bounce or spot-removal will own you

uhm... interesting.
The eternal witness aren't my first problem. They do cost to much for an unspo deck. Maybe I'll insert a regrowth, but I think I've got so many times unusable cards now. With regrowth...
But the deck you speak about seems too different from mine. I always find oath, in a way or another. I've got a better draw-engine, and oath is not the spell that makes us win. Oath is only a spell that helps us to win, but is not the only one. I found myself trying to tutor fastbond more times than oath. Because fastbond gives me the cards I need, even if that card is platz (too much times I casted Platz on the hand when I was under fastbond).

In my meta there aren't so much oaths and flashes (Italy). There are more gush-tinkers/tendrils, or artifacts. Against flash I don't have any problems, if the oppo doesn't close the match 5 times of 6 in the first turn...against oath, we have another winning condition that can really help us. Oath is not the best choice.

Platz in 2x? No...if the oppo bounces angel, I don't have problems. I cast it when I've got all the library on the graveyard, cause we have 13/14 lands that comes into play with fastbond. Then we win easily. The only spell which is very problematic is StP.

Though, I posted that list cause I have some problems witn 3 slots. I don't know how to use them.

The untouchable cards are those:

Manabase:

2 island
4 underground sea
2 tropical island
7 fetches
4 forbidden orchard
1 mana crypt
1 lotus petal


Creature:

1 Platz

Protections:

4 FoW
1 Mis-D
4 duress

Tutors:

4 merchant scroll
1 VT
1 MT
1 DT

Drawers:

4 gush
4 BS
3 Ponder

Woods:

1 krosan reclamation

bombs:

1 fastbond
4 oath
1 Yawwin

Those are the cards I'll never leave. They are the real engine of the deck. But there are other 3 slots that I don't know how to use. Those are the options:

-Spell snare in 2x with a misdi;
-Ponder with the misdi and a F/I;
-3 mana leak (maybe with that list I have to increase my manabase, thing that I don't like)
-Splashing with red, A F/I and 2 Pyroblast

The first seems to be the best. PLZ! Help me!
Byebye!

[Lemnear]

@Slaver: As you said: In italy there are more tendrils-based decks. The point is that they are able to simply bounce the angel and kill you (thats similar to the german meta) so the ways seems to me to make bouncing much harder to them. I never saw anyone bouncing the angel and passing the turn. Of course you'll able to recast Platz in a Will-turn via Fastbond but that deals that damn much damage to you so I would fear that bouncing the angel means winning the game in this case.

Do you consider Iseal for your undecided slots or Pact of Neagtion as completely free counter via platz? I realize that you dropped Tendrils out of your "wanna play list" ... so why we still discuss 'bout Will? In this case we're back to "kill via creature" that leads us back to the overdiscussed topic Platz vs. Tyrant.

Here's some more memories: Eternal Whitness was played together with 4 Cabal Therapy instead of Duress to clear the way of FoW by Flashback.

[MyrSlaver]

-

@Slaver: As you said: In italy there are more tendrils-based decks. The point is that they are able to simply bounce the angel and kill you (thats similar to the german meta) so the ways seems to me to make bouncing much harder to them. I never saw anyone bouncing the angel and passing the turn. Of course you'll able to recast Platz in a Will-turn via Fastbond but that deals that damn much damage to you so I would fear that bouncing the angel means winning the game in this case.

Ok, but are you sure he has got a bouncer when I cast oath? Remember the oppo must cast a merchant/tutor to pick the bounce. And it's difficult for my oppo to cast merchant and winner-spell with me making nothing. Then it'll result difficult for my oppo to close the turn he plays the bounce. And remember that we've got even 4 duress.
Also Remember that gush-tendrils/tinker kills in 1 turn with tendrils. That deck doesn't give me 13 damage for the combat phase or something else. So we'll always have enough life to cast the angel.

-waaaaait! Sorry! I forgot to write tendrils! Sorrysorry!

The tendrils is my finisher now, and will stay there for long. Maybe I only could think about EtW...mhhhh...
So will must stay there.

For Iseal... I would take him there, but I don't have it now!
It's a card that must go into the deck. You can easily leave 1 snare from the next list to put it in here.
pact of negation is an interesting card. I tried a 3x, a 2x and a 1x... It depends too much from the angel. I know I can cast the oath protected, but oath is the last spell i usually play.
Why? Because the new list is a lil'bit more control. Better, cause before we couldn't control the game.
the eternal witness could be interesting...but too slow now.

Here is the list I'm now testing:


Manabase:

2 island
4 underground sea
2 tropical island
7 fetches
3 forbidden orchard
1 lotus petal


Creature:

1 Platz

Protections:

4 FoW
2 Mis-D
4 duress
3 snare

Tutors:

4 merchant scroll
1 VT
1 MT
1 DT

Drawers:

4 gush
4 BS
4 Ponder

Woods:

1 krosan reclamation

bombs:

1 fastbond
4 oath
1 Yawwin

winner:

1 tendrils of agony

The first thing you can see is that the mana crypt disappeared.
That's a pity, but too many times I desidered a coloured mana than one uncolored. Now we play with 19 lands and we can't have only mana crypt in our hands.
So I made the list more directed to the cc1 spells. I have to admit that now it's very good. I'm never in flood and with 8 cc1 drawers even not in screw.
Another important thing: as you can see I've only 3 orchards. Too much important with oath, but these days I'm using the deck like a gush-deck. Draw and draw. If I don't close, cast oath. Oath isn't even the spell i want against the decks without creatures. Against them I have to control or to explode with a gush-chain.
But Oath is beautiful against artifact decks. Is the best ammo I have with them. But they play creatures (hope they aren't weldy...of Fice!), and orchard becomes only a non-basic land.

3 snares: I'm testing...

the rest is as usual.
Only one thing: I suffer the missing of ancy. Any spell that makes me draw? I was thinking at Whispers...
Byebye!

[Lemnear]

I won't argue via protection anyways now that nearly every deck runs Duress and FoW + additonal disruption. It's even more realistic that they duress your Oath than you duress off their bounce/tutor  (due of the lack of moxen to cast 1 turn oath). Moreover I guess there's a counterwar over Oath anyways so your protection will be low anyways ... so I can argue only by my own experience in tournament play and thats ... of course ... a bit subjective.

For me the point (again I'm targeting the lonely Platz  ) is simply that multible Platz makes it more difficult for your opponent to handle it, aware of the fact that next turn he's forced to handle two that put's him under pressure to tutor for bounce and kill you quickly or die to a lack of bounce/removal (if not running ET) that puts you in the driver seat not to be forced to finish him off via Will but being able to ride smooth to victory. But YOU have to be satisfied with the build and not me 

Two things we still should discuss: First of all your mainboard/sideboard use of red, meaning if red is really needed moreover you cut Orchard to 3 and dismiss Volcanic Island and the question if you need those Spell Snare's.

I'll start and finish with the last. What do you think about less protection and a bit more speed? I would love to see Regrowth in the deck to recast a tutor grabbed Fastbond first and maybe then Willl ... a little response to opp. discard? Sure I realize that the lack of moxen may result in a decline of speed especially those mox-orchard-oath-plays (so I would not cut Mana Crypt) but with Duress, Ponder and Brainstorm as remaining turn-one plays, thats not a problem. I feel that powered Oath plays a bit more mana than you ... don't you think that Wastland/Stripmine/Stifle would too dangerous to your manabase especially facing staxx/aggro shop? I count 19 mana sources in that build and powered oath running 16 lands (various count of moxen). Be aware that you can't use orchard to gush so many guys dismiss gush completely in the deck arguing that the engine works not perfect. I'm not soooo experienced with Gush+Orchard so the testing relies to you  I can imagine that wasting a turn 1 U.Sea would hurt you so much that gushing seems to be impossible. I'm looking forward to read some of your experiences testing this list against mana-denial-competition like Fish/Staxx.

[MyrSlaver]

Yesss! We're discussing about my very doubts. So, let's analyze...

I won't argue via protection anyways now that nearly every deck runs Duress and FoW + additonal disruption. It's even more realistic that they duress your Oath than you duress off their bounce/tutor  (due of the lack of moxen to cast 1 turn oath). Moreover I guess there's a counterwar over Oath anyways so your protection will be low anyways ... so I can argue only by my own experience in tournament play and thats ... of course ... a bit subjective.

For me the point (again I'm targeting the lonely Platz  ) is simply that multible Platz makes it more difficult for your opponent to handle it, aware of the fact that next turn he's forced to handle two that put's him under pressure to tutor for bounce and kill you quickly or die to a lack of bounce/removal (if not running ET) that puts you in the driver seat not to be forced to finish him off via Will but being able to ride smooth to victory. But YOU have to be satisfied with the build and not me 

Yeah, I know. Normal Oath has this problem. But I don't have this problems. the oppo is going against 5 spells that makes me in a very good position, with 2 tutors that takes them. Usually I play fastbond before oath, so that I can cast some gushes that makes me draw some cards. See the list. What does it remember to you?
It's like a GAT list. The manabase is preety the same, without moxen but with orchards. We've got the same draw-engine and the same broken. BUT we have one spell that when is casted alone makes us able to win without a removable dryad, tarmogoyf or psychoatog, and a different winner, which I consider the best (toa).
So, there could be a counterwar, but we have 5 brokens, 10 protections and a lot of drawers. And we usually win by casting only one of them. So the oppo when we're casting a bomb we'll be more in difficult than against a normal oath. Those are only considerations. There could be the time you don't have counters and you draw only lands/useless spells (that's why I left 2 mana from the first list).

Platz: Yeah, I know that the oppo will be more under pression with 2 angels. But he'll be more and more under pression if we close 1 turn before. Remember that 2 angels will help us with the D plain (beating with them), but will slow each other plans. I think I'll put only one angel. If the oppo bounces one and wins, what a lucky. but I prefer don't taking an extra turn...
That doesn't mean I'm not going to test both solutions!

Two things we still should discuss: First of all your mainboard/sideboard use of red, meaning if red is really needed moreover you cut Orchard to 3 and dismiss Volcanic Island and the question if you need those Spell Snare's.

I'll start and finish with the last. What do you think about less protection and a bit more speed? I would love to see Regrowth in the deck to recast a tutor grabbed Fastbond first and maybe then Willl ... a little response to opp. discard? Sure I realize that the lack of moxen may result in a decline of speed especially those mox-orchard-oath-plays (so I would not cut Mana Crypt) but with Duress, Ponder and Brainstorm as remaining turn-one plays, thats not a problem. I feel that powered Oath plays a bit more mana than you ... don't you think that Wastland/Stripmine/Stifle would too dangerous to your manabase especially facing staxx/aggro shop? I count 19 mana sources in that build and powered oath running 16 lands (various count of moxen). Be aware that you can't use orchard to gush so many guys dismiss gush completely in the deck arguing that the engine works not perfect. I'm not soooo experienced with Gush+Orchard so the testing relies to you  I can imagine that wasting a turn 1 U.Sea would hurt you so much that gushing seems to be impossible. I'm looking forward to read some of your experiences testing this list against mana-denial-competition like Fish/Staxx.

I think I'm gonna leave them...We'll see...
for the red: I cutted orchard to 3 right now, without the red. They are only a wood, except when we want to cast oath. But 4 are too many. 3 is the right number. the red is one solution I've been testing since 3 days, but yesterday I decided to put the snares. What's wrong about red is that we have to fetch 3 times for different colours! My first 2 colours are  . Red is the third. I have never fetched for it the first turns, the turns which could be interesting... Bah...

-yes, regrowht is a great spell. But I thought it was too much expensive... now you give me a good motivation to use her. So, I'll test her right now!
Now, protections...i'm thinking about leaving the snares for that thing:

-fice
-regrowht
-E.E

Fice is a great spell, that usually enters my list. Regrowht...
E.E: I found that spell interesting the first time I saw her. It can do such good things against multiple spheres, and could even destroy some beautiful things, like moxen...I'll see.

Against stax: interesting match. Usually when I cast oath I'm preety sure I'll win. But weldy and duplicant are very annoying... G2 comes into play SSS so if I cast oath I win.
If I don't cast oath I'm not in a so good position... as every gush.decks. here could be interesting the red, but the bouncers in G2 are preety good.
Against his wastes... I always cast an island the first turn, or a BS to look for one of them. So the problem at the 2nd turn doesn't exist... Strip Mine? What a luck!
I think he has got something more than us, like 55-45 or 60-40. G2/3 we do feel better, maybe 50-50 or 55-45 for us.
Byebye!

PS: if I have inserted only 3 spell snare because I've lost 4 matches of 6 with flash at the first turn without seeing leyline in even one match, it's another discussion!