[Deck] Goblin Sligh 2K8

[Masta]

I've played quite a few games recently with a build very close to Jamison's, minus the Leylines main, and I just can't seem to enjoy the Mauler.  Where did this card do well for you?  My biggest problem with him is that I really, really, really would rather play a Matron, Squad, or Chief pretty much every time.  I upped the Skirk and Stingscourger count, which has been very helpful on many an occasion.

Did you ever find another two slot guy to be effective for you?  I've had some good times with Tinkerer, but I'd also like to give more time to Frogtosser, and the new Vexing Shusher.  It's hard not to give huge props to the Shusher since he protects the deck's best card.  I hate being in the position to play the Squad while my opponent is just waiting to counter, it's like a moral defeat.  For quite a few decks, it seems like this is the only real threat...which leads to a pretty easy gameplan for them.  Why wouldn't we want to play the Shusher and round out the mana curve of the deck, while at the same increasing the reliability of resolving a Squad? 

V/R
Masta

[chief]

I have been testing frogtosser banneret myself.  Shusher...well, maybe i will test the card at some point, but it has a double colored mana cost and that may prove too big a drawback.  Warchief is worth it- shusher may not be.  The ability does cost mana to activate as well, so between getting a shusher down and paying the mana to activate it while prowling a squad it seems llike you would be delaying your game plan more than helping it since the decks that need squadding most tend to be the faster decks in the environment.  I've been liking the frogtossers a lot, actually. They may get the mauler spot somewhere along the way, or i may decide to keep the mauler.   

[kaos42069]

I replaced the maulers i put in 1 extra copy of sharpshooter, and im running simian spirit guide... i know  a lot of people dont like them...but i like being able to power out a turn 2 earwing more effectivly.

I have thought about adding the frogtossers to the deck... if i did it might replace the ssg.

[Masta]

First off, I'd like to acknowledge there's another thread up that's very similar to this topic.  That does suck to have two topics concerning the same topic at the top of the boards.  However, to me, the aim of this thread has turned to figuring out if the Mauler is the most optimal card in there.  Also, there's the whole idea of whether or not to main Leylines...which apparently comes down to the user showing up early and doing some recon on the environment before you make the final decision.  Anyway...I've tried to modify Chief's list slightly, for better or worse.  This thread is due for another list anyway...here's what I'm packin':

Mana
4 Mountain
4 Mire
4 Badlands
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Barbarian Ring

1 Ruby
1 Jet
1 Lotus
1 Crypt
1 Petal

Guys
4 Lackey
4 Fanatic
4 Skirk
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Piledriver
4 Squad
4 Ringleader
2 Stingscourger
2 Gempalm
1 Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 ?????

Sideboard
4 LotV
4 REB
3 Pillar
2 Stingscourger
2 ?????

The obvious difference is the absence of LotV main, Barbarian Ring, Gempalm, and no Maulers.  Gempalm doesn't really need an explanation.  I needed to fill spots, and he's definitely the next best guy.  The only time I've been disappointed with him is when I was dealt both of them in my opening hand, which I mulled.  Another Skirk and Stingscourger were brought in from the bench to fill more spots and they've both done very well.  The extra Skirk obviously helps to power out bigger, more effective cards.  Then the Scourger, helping to clear the way for Lackey, bounce someone's Darksteel/Phyrexian, Confidant, Goyf, whatever.  I'm not happy at all with Frogtosser, he's just not making anything happen.  Might as well be called Vanilla Goblin.  I am however, happy with Tinkerer.  He's taken out too many artifacts for me to list here, and he compliments Matron pretty nicely as another guy in the toolbox.  His 1R CC doesn't hurt either in that it drops the huge number of 3CC cards in the deck.  I'll be keeping him in my list.  I'm now playing with one Mauler, just to round out the flexibility of the deck.  And if he's as money as the pro Goblin players on these boards are...maybe he does warrant at least one spot. 

The Rings...ok, 80% of the time the games don't last long enough for you to reach Threshold.  I'm very aware of that.  But, I have won a small handful of games because of it.  I wonder if anyone else has experimented with it, and if so, do you think it's that bad to completely eliminate it from the deck?

V/R
Masta

[kaos42069]

I've honestly thought about running goblin vandal or goblin welder main deck.... Has anyone tried either of those? I mean i like tinker, but i think vandal would have be better imo. Welder would be both for use against your opponent and be able to bring back ur lotus.

Has anyone else tried the Simian spirit guide?

[zabuza]

I´m testing now a card i always have loved. It´s goblin lookout. When you have a warchief and play it for a single mana giving all your dudes +2 /+0 is incredible. I´m playing with a toolbox (thanks to matron) of one of this dudes, one sharpshooter, one stingscourger and one RINGLEADER. Yes, i´ve been testing the deck and usually yow play the ringleader loooking for it with a matron(like i´m actually doing) but you don´t want to have 2 or 3 of them in your opening hand. Beside of that, people now plays lot of creatures in T1 so there are matches were lackey can´t hit opponent so your ringleaders asre in your hand and you are not going to play it for so long. Another reason not to play four of them is because if you play bitter ordeal, cabal therapy, leyline of the void, etc its very easy ringleader is not going to give you lot of advantage. (you have 18 lands + 5 mana sources (lotus, moxes, etc) + 4 utility cards (leyline, etc). they are 27 cards that are not goblins. Thiese are the reason because now i think 4 ringleader are lot of them.  I like taurean mauler but they have a serious problem. They cost three mana and the mana curve is so hight on cc3. You have 4 warchief + 4 matron + 1 sharpshooter (9 cards) + 2 maulers(11 cards). They are too much for this casting cost so i don´t konow if they are good enough to play with them and how much of them are the right quantity.

Ok, i´ll be waiting for your answers and observations.

[nero angelo]

I used Simian Spirit Guide before.

I don't like it. Takes too much space in the deck. I rather have Sol Ring/Mana Crypt and Lotus Petal + Skirk Prospectors.


At Taurean Mauler.

Oh I love this card. A real threat. Next in line with Piledrivers and early Earwigs.

On my match w/ a control deck, it grew 9/9 before it got bounced.

The point is, Piledriver won't be the only critter your opponent would be blocking (NO Don't insert Lackey here because we're talking of DAMAGE dealers.) but they will think, Maulers can grow large uncheked, and it will grow large because they would be playing spells (Ok, enough of Ichorids.)


At main topic.

Sligh archetype is dead on Vintage. Burn is really irrelevant (so to exclude Pyrokinesis when Lark Flash combo was not yet invented. Smell the toasted Slivers.)


At Goblin Sharpshooter

No, I don't like this guy and won't like it unless all Vintage decks becomes aggro. 1st off, It doesn't kill a Juggernaut. 2nd, It does nothing in Lark Flash combo., 3rd It doesn't even scratch DSC. 4th, you need 2 of these to kill Ichorid tokens, which is unlikely because Ichorid kills early, plus LotV is there.

It has no synergy w/ LotV, which is our FoW in most decks.

When it attacks, it gets frozen unless something died and went to a GY, which is unlikely bec. of LotV (ok probably on your side, it will matter since you are NOT affected by your OWN LotV.)

Gempalm Incinerators deals MORE damage and nets you a card.

So it kills Welders and Confidants. What does Mogg Fanatic do?

At Pillars

Pillars kills Storm. Nuff said. Thorns only slows them down.

At Ringleader

It is our UNRESTRICED Ancestral Recall, Opt, Thougthcast and sometimes even Meditate w/o drawback, plus it punches for 2.. And it has haste. (If your deck hates you, it's just an overcosted 2/2 hasted green man.)

Why restrict it? It is the one that saves us from running out of gas.

Pyroclasm? No problem
Smokestack? I got MORE permanents than you.
Fish? Can you win the critter race?

see?

[zabuza]

I think like you but not with ringleader. I like this guy, but he has 4cc and you usually are going to play it when you are making damage with lackey. Otherwise is a 2/2 haste for 4cc. The other problem with this guy is that if you have 36 or more goblins in your deck he is going to be a good drawing tool but using leylines and aceleration you are not going to play as much goblins anymore. He usually gives you one or two cards (great, my matron does the same but i can choose what i want) and casting it for 4cc is very hard.
I´m not saying is a bad card, the problem is that 4 of them are too much when you are playing in t1 i think.
I´ll be testing with one or two of them and will write here with results.

[nero angelo]

Ok..

But as per experience, Ringleader works fine for me.

It fills my hands with fresh goblins, and I like it.




PS:

Anybody used Confidant?

[Anusien]

Does an active Sharpshooter force Flash to bounce him or lose?  Against Slivers you just nuke all the Slivers.  Against Flash, you can either try to get lucky and ping the Feeder in response to the first sacrifice, or you just start putting points to their head.  Assuming you start with more life than they do, every Fanatic activation costs them two life and you one.

[Phele]

Couldnt he just ping Sharpshooter first - like it is able to shoot Platz - and then continue with Fanatic shoots in the head?

[coyoteuglly]

Does an active Sharpshooter force Flash to bounce him or lose?  Against Slivers you just nuke all the Slivers.  Against Flash, you can either try to get lucky and ping the Feeder in response to the first sacrifice, or you just start putting points to their head.  Assuming you start with more life than they do, every Fanatic activation costs them two life and you one.

There is no real "getting lucky" with a Sharpshooter against Flash.  With cards like Mogg Fanatic and Skirk Prospecter that sacrifice themselves.  Combine that with there entire combo untapping Sharpshooter.  It becomes pretty easy to kill a Carrion Feeder.  Also, they should shoot your Sharpshooter with the first activation of Mogg Fanatic.

I used Simian Spirit Guide before.

I don't like it. Takes too much space in the deck. I rather have Sol Ring/Mana Crypt and Lotus Petal + Skirk Prospectors.

At Goblin Sharpshooter

No, I don't like this guy and won't like it unless all Vintage decks becomes aggro. 1st off, It doesn't kill a Juggernaut. 2nd, It does nothing in Lark Flash combo., 3rd It doesn't even scratch DSC. 4th, you need 2 of these to kill Ichorid tokens, which is unlikely because Ichorid kills early, plus LotV is there.

It has no synergy w/ LotV, which is our FoW in most decks.

When it attacks, it gets frozen unless something died and went to a GY, which is unlikely bec. of LotV (ok probably on your side, it will matter since you are NOT affected by your OWN LotV.)

Gempalm Incinerators deals MORE damage and nets you a card.

So it kills Welders and Confidants. What does Mogg Fanatic do?

How do you not kill a Jugs with a Sharpshooter?  Block with a Goblin Lackey.  Put damage on the stack.  Shoot with the Sharpshooter.  Resolve combat damage.  Untap Sharpshooter.  Shoot Jugs.  Jugs dies untap Sharpshooter for fun and profit.

Goblin Incinerator doesn't kill a DSC, so your point here is completely useless and invalid.

SSG > Sol Ring

Your arguments for LotV being a non-bo not that good.  First if you have a Leyline against Ichorid game one.  Congrats you are the victor.  Games 2 and 3 you are probably winning.  But if they remove Leyline, Sharpshooter is insane.  It allows you to kill all there Nacromobes and Ichorids.  Than respond to the Bridge triggers by either A) sacrificing a Prospecter or Fanatic.  Or B) shotting a Goblin with Sharpshooter to ace all there bridges.

The odds of them starting with a Leyline games two or three are also way lower then yours.  Because they have to look for specific combinations of cards to have a keepable hand.  There for they can simply not keep a hand based on Leyline of the Void.  They need a hand that has Leyline hate + a dredger + Bazaar (or Breakthough or Colissum) to have a chance.  They can't afford the luxuray of just trying to hit Leyline.

Same thing with Flash.  Congrats you just won game one.  Game two same thing as against Ichorid.  If you have a Leyline your probably winning.  And even if they remove it.  Sharpshooter shuts down all of the Flash kills except Disciples.

And, even if ALL it does is destroy every Fish deck and every Welder deck.  Is one spot really to much to ask?

But, I do agree with you.  You specificlly, should not play Goblin Sharpshooter since you do not know all the interactions with it, which makes you unable to use the card to its maximum value.  You should definitly play a Goblin Incinerator in that slot.  For the record, that is not a flame.  It is simply me stating my opinion based on the statements he made about the card.  I am simply trying to help him get the most out of his deck.  I wouldn't recommend to one of my friends to play Doomsday in Trop Storm if I thought they couldn't play the card correctly.

[nero angelo]

Yeah, I know how to use the guy. Been playing goblins for more than 5 years. (When SS was printed, I believe.)

But you said it yourself, Sharpshooter needs another suicidal creature (Namely Fanatic/Prospector) on your side for it to work properly on the said decks.

LotV, on the otherhand, singlehandedly gives you game 1 w/o fuzz, is uncounterable and either it gives you games 2 and 3 or stalls them for you to win.

Plus

Let's take the situations in worse case scenario.

Flash combos out on turn 0, or on your turn during your upkeep. Ichorid kills you in turn 2 (Worse case scenario, they have an active LotV).

Can you drop a SS on turn 0? NO.
Can you ping Ichorid (Have an active SS AND a Fanatic/Prospector) on turn 2 99% of the time? NO.

LotV stops those from happening. LotV gets active on turn 0, goes behind Flash's counterwall, prevents Ichorid from dredging and having threats, wins you the game most of the time.

Question:

What do everyone usually gets first?

> An ACTIVE Sharpshooter or the Flash Combo?

> An ACTIVE Sharpshooter w/ Sui Buddies or The 3/3 Hasted Zombies?

Think about it.

[chief]

It's ridiculous to plan around worst case scenarios.  I'm not saying not to play leyline, i'm simply saying that you are exaggerating how bad the opposing matchups are without them.

[kicks_422]

It's ridiculous to plan around worst case scenarios.  I'm not saying not to play leyline, i'm simply saying that you are exaggerating how bad the opposing matchups are without them.

I have to agree with that. Instead of thinking how your deck would fare when you're losing, maybe you should think of how not to get into those situations in the first place (e.g. focus on speed over anything else).

Flash does not always win Turn 1. Oath does not always come into play Turn 1. People complain when that happens, but they also do when a Lackey hits play Turn 1 right? Each deck has its own broken starts.

[GUnit]

It's ridiculous to plan around worst case scenarios.  I'm not saying not to play leyline, i'm simply saying that you are exaggerating how bad the opposing matchups are without them.

I have to agree with that. Instead of thinking how your deck would fare when you're losing, maybe you should think of how not to get into those situations in the first place (e.g. focus on speed over anything else).

Flash does not always win Turn 1. Oath does not always come into play Turn 1. People complain when that happens, but they also do when a Lackey hits play Turn 1 right? Each deck has its own broken starts.

The problem with this logic is that flash and oath both goldfish faster, on average, than goblins, with the additional help of countermagic. Playing to race these decks is simply playing to lose. You certainly need a fast clock, but you also need to accompany it with disruption, or get very lucky. In the current meta, leyline really isn't an unreasonable maindeck card. All of the tier 1 decks care about their yards, and a few of them really can't win with a leyline on the board. Even just keeping a player off yawg's will for a turn can be enough for you to poke through lethal damage.

You know, there used to be a time when duress was considered a hate card. I remember going to a mox tournament early in my vintage career with a deck that played four maindeck duress, and my first round opponent cried for the whole match about having to face off against a "hate" deck.

[nero angelo]

Why did I plan for the worst case scenario?

Because it is what those decks are supposed to do. Kill you FASTER. Alot faster.

Why is it ridiculous to be prepared for the worst?

Ok, you didn't plan for those scenarios. Then you lose turn 1 to Flash and Turn 2 to Ichorid.

Then you'll comment, "Restrict Flash, turn 1 kills are not playing, it's merely winning.", "Ichorid is too powerful, blah blah..."

Whereas, you could have prevented those from happening if and only if you have plans for those scenarios.

Remember, Flash has "11 Flash cards" in it's deck (4 Flash, 4 Scrolls, 3 Tutors), "9 Hulks" (3 Pact, 4 Hulks, 2 Tutors), "8 Counters" (4 Pacts, 4 FoW), has some fixers (4 Brainstorm is the most common). What are the odds of not drawing those in hand?

Plus, If you could hold their "worst case scenario" plays, it is most likely that you'll hold their "not-so-worst case scenario" such as Flash not killing you on turn 1, Ichorid not swarming you on turn 2, etc...

Focus on speed: Yes goblins are fast. I mean, THEY ARE FAST. I agree that you should take on speed.

But there are other decks faster than them. Affinity. Flash. Ichorid. Those decks exist in reality. However, they have weaknesses that turns their speed into nothing. namely: Null Rod for Affinity and LotV for Flash and Ichorid. It destroys their gameplan.

What happens when it is destroyed? Either their fast plays are slowed or they lose.


Ok, you plan for speed. Suddenly, Warchief got countered. Haste is lost. They got their Timewalk.


As to what GUnit have said, Those decks (Flash, Oath) wins faster on the average. Especially Flash.

Speed is good. But if used recklessly,  w/o disruption (LotV) and plans you could actually lose even if you are already winning.

[kicks_422]

Whatever. I'm just sick of hearing people say "you'll lose to Turn 1 Flash" or "you'll lose to Turn 1 Oath". It's like saying "you'll die when a truck hits you."

[chief]

Dude, you aren't listening.  I explicitly said that I do not advise going without disruption.  I say only that I do not feel that leyline is necessarily the premium disruption package currently.  It is definitely fine- you'll note that my list had 4 maindeck, so don't come preaching to me about what my deck already ran.  This does not mean that I will just concede them as a necessity and not test anything else in the slot.  Should I find that I cannot come up with a suitable eplacement before the next event, I may run the leylines again.  If I do find something....well, I'm open to getting rid of them for an effective card that isn't a completely dead draw.  The current candidate is faerie macabre.

Also, I do not suggest that it is awful to take the worst case into account as a possibility, only that I find it a bit extreme to actually warp a persons maindeck around these worst case scenarios.  Just running leylines does not fall into the category of warping IMO.

[coyoteuglly]

Why did I plan for the worst case scenario?

Because it is what those decks are supposed to do. Kill you FASTER. Alot faster.

Why is it ridiculous to be prepared for the worst?

Ok, you didn't plan for those scenarios. Then you lose turn 1 to Flash and Turn 2 to Ichorid.

Then you'll comment, "Restrict Flash, turn 1 kills are not playing, it's merely winning.", "Ichorid is too powerful, blah blah..."

Whereas, you could have prevented those from happening if and only if you have plans for those scenarios.

Remember, Flash has "11 Flash cards" in it's deck (4 Flash, 4 Scrolls, 3 Tutors), "9 Hulks" (3 Pact, 4 Hulks, 2 Tutors), "8 Counters" (4 Pacts, 4 FoW), has some fixers (4 Brainstorm is the most common). What are the odds of not drawing those in hand?

Plus, If you could hold their "worst case scenario" plays, it is most likely that you'll hold their "not-so-worst case scenario" such as Flash not killing you on turn 1, Ichorid not swarming you on turn 2, etc...

Focus on speed: Yes goblins are fast. I mean, THEY ARE FAST. I agree that you should take on speed.

But there are other decks faster than them. Affinity. Flash. Ichorid. Those decks exist in reality. However, they have weaknesses that turns their speed into nothing. namely: Null Rod for Affinity and LotV for Flash and Ichorid. It destroys their gameplan.

What happens when it is destroyed? Either their fast plays are slowed or they lose.


Ok, you plan for speed. Suddenly, Warchief got countered. Haste is lost. They got their Timewalk.


As to what GUnit have said, Those decks (Flash, Oath) wins faster on the average. Especially Flash.

Speed is good. But if used recklessly,  w/o disruption (LotV) and plans you could actually lose even if you are already winning.

I am about as anti main deck Leyline as you can get.  But if you go back, and actually read what has been said (In this thread and the Not Quite Goblins Thread, I'm not going to copy paste everything every time I make a post, just to bump my post count.), even I have said that I would play main deck Leyline if I figured a specific tournament needed it.  But if I go to an event and there is only a couple of Flash or Ichorid decks, I'm going to just shurg and accept the possibility that I will lose to turn one Flash.  But even than if the game goes on for a turn or two, Goblins doesn't really have that terrible of a matchup, against Flash or Ichorid.

The best example for me last year was playing Goblins at SCG: Indy.  I went there knowing that Goblins had a good matchup against pretty much everything that was suppost to be there.  But also realizing that over the course of a 7 or 8 round tournament, broken things can happen.  I was willing to accept this risk knowing there wasn't really anything I was going to be able to do about.  But knowing as long as my opponenets didn't get amazing lucky, or me getting amazing unlucky, I thought I had a pretty good chance.  I ended up finishing like 18th or 20th or something just out of prizes.  Where my only loses came when I was way ahead and my oppoenent was pertty good at top decking.

Sometimes you just have to go to a tournament knowing that there will be acceptable loses.

[nero angelo]

@Chief

Hey...

The disruption/speed thingy was not meant for you. Sorry for the confusion.

I did use the worst case scenario because, well, it's the worst that you can get from those decks. If those did not happen, might as well you are already on the road to victory.

Better be prepared, than be unprepared at all.

There is a saying, "Expect the unexpected." and "Prepare for the worst."

Bow.

@coyoteuglly

If meta involves decks that has GY effects, that relies on GY and uses GY, you will pack LotV, Right?

I get your point. Why on earth would you pack a GY hate MD on a tourney that only atleast 2% uses GY...
The chances of winning against most decks (not Flash, not Ichorid, not Oath) is fairly above average.

@kicks_422

Yeah, sorry.

I just pointed out that those things can happen, often. Those decks are designed to be fast.

You can really compare them to our opening hand.

No Flash = No LotV
No Oath = No Gargadon/Bombardment
No Bazaar = No Fanatic/Prospector/LotV

but think of it, how do they search those cards? who gets those cards faster? Us, or them?

We have: Matron . Ringleader . To some extend, a Gempalm Incinerator and Lackey

They have: Demonic Tutor  . Vampiric Tutor . Mystical Tutor . Merchant Scroll  . Brainstorm . Serum Power (Considered as free | Ichorid).

the asnwer: Them. and those are w/o counters.

As I have said before, Flash has Tutors and Scrolls, as well as a huge counterwall to block us.
Oath has Brainstorm, Tutors, and some fair counters.
Ichorid has Serum Powder and huge dredgers.

I'm not saying we ALWAYS lose turn 1. But if you look, on the average, w/o disruptions, they are faster than us.

My single point here is, LotV SLOWS, if not, SHUTS them down. A Sharpshooter can't do that early game. And they can beat us early on. (Ok, to make it clear, EARLY is NOT equal to 1st turn.)

==========================

Oh well, I guess I should stop playing Goblins, if not, Vintage since I don't have a good explanation on things. Sorry for the inconvenience.


Oh, btw, I never said that LotV assures us winning.

For me, it is just better than SS for reasons stated above.

Thanks!

[kicks_422]

I never said anything against Leyline of the Void and/or Goblin Sharpshooter, for that matter. I'm just saying that you're overanalyzing too much. This is GOBLINS for crying out loud.

Got Leyline? Cool. Drop Lackey. Countered? Drop another. Beatdown. Win? Nice. Next game. Oops, Flash. GG.

That's how it goes.

[nero angelo]

The discussion was created when I said that I don't like Sharpshooter because it has no synergy w/ LotV, and for me, LotV handles the decks (Ichorid, Flash) more than SS.

Yes SS can handle them, LATE game.

LotV, on the otherhand, handles them Turns 0 onwards. And once again, they CAN kill you before SS gets active.

Then a discussion was created **See posts above** regarding SS and LotV.

Then I presented the worst case scenario, then the discussion revolved around it, thinking I ALWAYS say that those decks combos/kills on turn 1 and 2.

I hope that people would understand the "worst" "case" "scenario" phrase. It means that it doesn't happen everytime, but it COULD happen. And with decks like those, it WILL happen. Maybe not everytime, but there is a HUGE possibility.

And we can, I repeat, WE CAN prevent it, thus minimizing our loss ratio even by a small factor. Who wouldn't like that?

[kicks_422]

But... Nobody's saying anything about dropping Leyline to fit in Sharpshooter. By your point of "preventing" the loss, just running a single Sharpshooter (like I believe in the recent 2nd place Gob-Lines list) with the Leyline would "prevent" a game loss more - When they get to bounce the Leyline, then what? Having a Leyline in play would hopefully buy you enough time to Matron/Ringleader into an active Sharpshooter, giving you better control of the game than just Leylines. Of course, you could have already won by that time, but that's the "worst case scenario".

[kaos42069]

So since everyone agrees that running leyline and sharpshooter together are the best combination...

What are the best sideboard choices?
3 Pyrostatic pillar
4 pithing needle

and what else?
Whats the best hate against stax and workshop aggro?
Whats the best hate against the mirror match?

[chief]

If you're expecting to see a lot of stax/shop aggro then shattering spree is a fine option.  Personally, I expect shops to be a smaller presence at the next tourney i attend, and want to have instant speed access to killing a nought.  I've been testing smash to smithereens to fill this slot and double for the shop match i might have to play.  It's the best shatter for the slot i've found for the deck without splashing green for grudge.  When it comes to the mirror i tend to ust fall back on playing tight magic to try and get there, since i don't expect too many of the more experienced players in my area to pilot it.  If you want a tool you can play smother (another candidate for my smash to smithereens spot), pyrokinesis, goblin king for the alpha strike, or even bring in gargadon if you happened to board it for the oath match.

My current list has only 3 needle.  4 is really not too necessary IMO, especially since in multiples it gets to be less than exciting.  REBS are a must.  The board is pretty malleable, so just work with it and figure out what you're going to need for that tournament.

[kaos42069]

I am really starting to like the vexing shusher over the REB... i know he costs 1 more mana to play but he can be used over and over again....

Why would you use smash to smitherins over shattering spree?

I do agree with you about the 3 pithing needles though i have noticed i get them too much if i run 4 of...I just really like being able to drop it turn 1...

[nero angelo]

Oh well, we both shown our points in LotV and SS.

well, If they opted to remove LotV, they could also ping SS and shoot all the way to you, both ways, you lose.

Anyways, could we all get over it? hahaha


At SB:

Anyone tried using Extirpates?

good matchup against almost all:


Ichorid - Reomove Ichorid/Bridges... Remember that Bridges CAN be removed via Fanatic/killing your own green man.
Flash - Remove Hulk/Fanatic
Staxx - I assumed you have extracted Tangle Wire via Earwig, then remove something else, say, Smokestack? Triskellion?
Goblins - Warchief? Piledriver?
Storm - Dark Rituals? Their Tutors? Gush? (But we have Pillars for this....)
GaT - Gush. Gush... Gush... and, uhm, Gush?

My Board is a little messy, I can't decide which to put in...

3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Greater Gargadon (Who invented Oath anyways... hahaha)
3x Extripate
3x Shattering Spree (3 Because Staxx is already a good matchup and we have Earwigs...)
1x Stingscourer/Vexing Shusher (I MD'd this over Sting because it's a new card hahahaha)
2x Sudden Shock (Originally 3x Pyrokinesis when Sliver Flash was prevalent... But Shock kills Dryads/Togs as well)


Now question is:

Should I put in REB?

It kills Meddling Mages.
It can counter Flash (I doubt we'll be successfull, but it's worth the try)

Anything else?

But on the otherhand, we have Extripates for those situation. (Mages can die to a cycled Incinerator...)

[kicks_422]

I have this SB:

4 Shattering Spree - Stax
3 Stingscourger - Tinker
4 Warren Weirding - Fish/MUD
4 Greater Gargadon - Oath

I run 1 Stingscourger, 1 Sharpshooter, and 4 Gempalm Incinerators MD. I'm thinking of switching the Sprees for Chalices vs. combo though, since control-type Stax decks are getting rare, and I have Weirdings for MUD anyway.

[chief]

REB kills tidespout tyrant and counters gush, kills fish dudes and counters stifle on a dreadnought.  It is not just for pushing a squad through.  There are a million uses for reb.  On smash to smith vs spree, i expect not to play against shops, and if i do i expect an ok match already.  I'd rather have a more agressive card that is instant speed for the other matches in which i'd board it in.