kaos42069
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« Reply #60 on: May 06, 2008, 08:34:06 am » |
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What about useing sudden shock in the sideboard? it kills carrion feeder, other goblins, early goyf or tog
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kaos42069
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« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2008, 11:52:42 am » |
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SO does anyone have a new and updated deck list? What is the optimal amount of lands? Is anyone useing Simian spirit guide?
Heres my current list its still a work in progress:
1 black lotus 1 mox ruby 1 mox jet 1 lotus petal 1 mana crypt 4 bloodstained mire 2 wooded foothills 4 badlands 3 mountain 2 swamp 4 simian spirit guide
4 goblin lackey 4 mogg fanatic 4 goblin warhief 4 goblin ringleader 4 earwig squad 4 goblin matron 3 goblin piledriver 2 goblin sharpshooter 2 skirk prospector 1 stingscourger
4 leyline of the void
sideboard: 4 red elemental blast 3 shattering spree 3 pyrostatic pillar 3 pithing needle 2 sudden shock
Reasons for my choices that go against the other deck lists: 6 fetchlands because i need to be able to get black mana on turn 2, and i dont want to draw a land when i ringleader. I was at 8 fetch lands...but moved it down to 6 to add in some basic lands. IM running simian spirit guide because it increases my chances to drop earwig on turn 2...and its helped accelerate me into a turn 1 warchief and goblin lackey 2 sharpshooters... i play against ichorid..both manaless and mana'd. if i cant get rid of his bridge from below that he got into his graveyard really early or whatever... the sharpshooters kill almost everything in his deck when i have 2 out... PLus 2 sharpshooters have a higher chance of killing a plat angel or whatever need be... 3 piledrivers... I know i should run 4... but i wanted to add another land to the deck to stop from having to muligan so many hands... I thought about adding sensation gorger in place of the extra land... im still testing it out.
Sideboard choices... I honestly dont know what the meta is going to be like... I know a lot of people would suggest getting rid of pithing needle but i really like it...I thought about useing null rod, but the pithing needle won in the end. Sudden shock is just there for testing i might replace it with extirpate... I havent decided yet.
Any questions or comments?
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zabuza
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« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2008, 04:04:31 am » |
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Now iīm thinking how we can combat painter decks with goblins. I think so the only way to do it is killing painter very very fastly at instant speed and with a card you have no in play. using gaiaīs blessing in the deck is not a solution because they can play leyline, stifle, estract, estirpate, jester, etc so we need to kill painter before they can play painter grindstone and run it. There are another complication with painter and is that if they play the painter and we canīt remove it fast, theyīll begin to blas all our permanents(lackey, lands, critters) and weīll lose the game. How can we solve this situaion?? Think we canīt use any permanent (like null rod or so) because the play painter, blast null rod and play grindstone for the win.
thanks. iīll be waiting for your answers
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kicks_422
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« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2008, 07:43:53 pm » |
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More reasons to run 4 Gempalm Incinerators in the MD. That and Chalices out of the board.
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zabuza
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« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2008, 05:18:37 am » |
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Have anyone tested vexing shusher on the way. Iīve found this list on a recent tournament. It makes 4th place.
1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 4 Earwig Squad 4 Leyline of the Void 1 Warren Weirding 3 Vexing Shusher 4 Goblin Lackey 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Piledriver 4 Goblin Ringleader 4 Goblin Warchief 4 Mogg Fanatic 2 Skirk Prospector 1 Stingscourger
Lands (16): 4 Badlands 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Mountain 2 Taiga 2 Wooded Foothills
SDB 3 Extirpate 3 Krosan Grip 3 Pyrostatic Pillar 3 Red Elemental Blast 3 Shattering Spree
About painters i donīt think so gempalm is the solution because you need 3 goblin on line to kill painter. The good thing about using gemplam is taht they canīt be countered so it could be a good choice but if you play vexing S. you probably can use weirdings or so.
Another thing iīm now thinking is that could be helpful playing cabal therapy NOW. i think metagame is changing to combo a lot so now could be time to play with therapies again.What do you think?
Have anyone a good deck list to comment?
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kaos42069
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« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2008, 09:09:00 am » |
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I ran goblins at SCG.... first thing here are some results
ROUND 1 Vs Flash 2-1(loss) Game 1 - i had main deck llotv and got it on the draw w/o muligan... then 2nd turn resolved earwig squad...he scooped Game 2 - he turn 2 killed me... game 3 - i had to muligan down to 5; i went on 2 llotv, 1 badlands, ssg, goblin sharpshooter... droped 2 llotv and didnt draw another land for 6 turns.... *0-1-0* ROUND 2 vs mono-black sui (2-0 win) Not really much to say... he was playing a LD/discard deck... it never really did anything against me *1-1-0* ROUND 3 Painter's servant (2-0 loss) Game 1 - He turn 2 milled me.... i sb in pithing needles, shattering spree, reb game 2 - Turn 1 i play pithing needle naming grindstone, turn 2 i play pithing needle naming grindstone again, turn 3 i play shattering pulse replicated twice... he fow 2 and losses a mox because i was 2 stupid to put all 3 targets on the painters.... turn 3 his turn...reb destroying my pithing needle, reb destroying my other pithing needle and wins...{loss on bad play my part} *1-2-0* ROUND 4 GAT (2-1 Win) Game 1 he played turn 1 dryad, and just kept pumping her up and kept me at low enough creatures till he stormed out with empty the warrens Game 2 i resolved 2 sharpshooters, and over ran him game 3 i resolved earwig squad early and the turn he went to storm out he tapped his only source of green mana to play yawgmoth's will, then was unable to bring fastbond in...loss because he played it wrong... *2-2-0* Round 5 Painters servant (2-0 loss) Pretty much same as the game before...not much i could do sideboard or before.... i never resolved earwig...and i didnt have the power to kill a 1/3... *2-3-0* RG kobold clamp(2-0 Win) Not much to say 2 sharpshooters early kinda kept him off anything, game 2 i resolved 1st turn pithing needle naming aether vial.... he didnt do much after that *3-3-0* TPS (2-1 Win) Game 1 - Pretty much perfect hand...i droped warchieft, lackey turn 1 then droped ringleader from the lackey; turn 2 earwig squad...GG game 2 - he stormed out like turn 1 or 2 game 3 - i won from double earwig resolving....(he wasted his counters stopping pillar from coming into play) *4-3-0* Came in 23rd out of like 100....
Notes on the deck.... * Goblin piledriver is not worth it in this deck...the meta is heavy control... and we don't have enough goblins in the deck to really make him worth it because he gets chump blocked. * Main deck llotv was pretty useless.... Would have been 10 times better if it was main deck Red elemental blast * Earwig squad is still god... * vexing shusher is a most in the meta....(i played him day 2 and his results were way better than piledriver * splash green for tin-street holligan * sideboard add 2 gaea's blessing....i actually main decked one because of the ammount of painter's servant decks up there * when replicating shattering pulse...target all copies on the painter's servant...
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punki
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« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2008, 08:31:52 am » |
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Have anyone tested vexing shusher on the way. Iīve found this list on a recent tournament. It makes 4th place.
1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 4 Earwig Squad 4 Leyline of the Void 1 Warren Weirding 3 Vexing Shusher 4 Goblin Lackey 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Piledriver 4 Goblin Ringleader 4 Goblin Warchief 4 Mogg Fanatic 2 Skirk Prospector 1 Stingscourger
Lands (16): 4 Badlands 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Mountain 2 Taiga 2 Wooded Foothills
SDB 3 Extirpate 3 Krosan Grip 3 Pyrostatic Pillar 3 Red Elemental Blast 3 Shattering Spree
About painters i donīt think so gempalm is the solution because you need 3 goblin on line to kill painter. The good thing about using gemplam is taht they canīt be countered so it could be a good choice but if you play vexing S. you probably can use weirdings or so.
Another thing iīm now thinking is that could be helpful playing cabal therapy NOW. i think metagame is changing to combo a lot so now could be time to play with therapies again.What do you think?
Have anyone a good deck list to comment?
That's my list  I indeed got 4th place (about 27 players) BUT: I faced 4 rounds of aggro players and really missed not having ANY relevant creature removal. Ok, I won those rounds, but still it could have been much easier and I had a lot of luck not dying to manacrypt I missed maindeck artifact removal as i got kicked out of t8 by stax (of all the decks) But he got the nuts t1 metalworker and t2 staff of domination => infi life draw almost all of his deck, ... I did manage to win a round in t8 against oath by shusher protecting earwig squad. But as I faced only 3 'real' decks all day, I can't comment on how good shushers were to me cause in all the aggro matches i played they were useless. @ Kaos: ".... turn 3 his turn...reb destroying my pithing needle, reb destroying my other pithing needle and wins...{loss on bad play my part}" The needles were not blue: Read painter's servant: only cards outside the game get the chosen color.
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« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 08:35:28 am by punki »
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zabuza
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« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2008, 08:39:37 am » |
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The problem is that we are running goblin warchief, and they are necessary, but if you play them you canīt play tin street because lot of times you wouldnīt be able to cast the G mana to destroy an artifact. Iīm trying other alternatives like goblin tinkerer, but i donīt like them. I donīt know haow good are suhsing but it culd be fine to the control meta we have now. If anybody have a real good decklist or any idea of how can we build a solid decklist please post it.
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MrJolly
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« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2008, 09:12:11 am » |
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@ Kaos:
".... turn 3 his turn...reb destroying my pithing needle, reb destroying my other pithing needle and wins...{loss on bad play my part}"
The needles were not blue: Read painter's servant: only cards outside the game get the chosen color.
Oracle text: All cards that aren't in play, spells, and permanents are the chosen color in addition to their other colors. All cards in play, and not in play (excluding sideboard) are also the chosen color.
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kaos42069
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« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2008, 10:12:19 am » |
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Although the wording is a little wierd painter's servant actually makes EVERYTHING the chosen color... all cards in play (permanents) spells (either in your library or being played) and cards that are in the RFG zone (except sideboard) which makes Red elemental blast the best spell in the deck.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2008, 02:39:29 pm » |
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One thing I really like about shusher is that he is a great reason to run Chalice maindeck. Not only can he help your dudes through a chalice (so like set it at 1 early, and then play shusher, then shush your lackey through the chalice). but you can play him AFTER you play chalice at 2! Insane!
Something like:
4 Earwig Squad 4 Chalice of the Void 3 Vexing Shusher 4 Goblin Lackey 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Piledriver 3 Goblin Ringleader 4 Goblin Warchief 4 Mogg Fanatic 2 Gempalm Incinerator 1 Stingscourger 1 Goblin Welder
4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Badlands 4 Bloodstained Mire 1 Mountain 4 Ancient Tomb 1 Black Lotus 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Chrome Mox
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kicks_422
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« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2008, 08:26:23 pm » |
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I guess you'll have to ask yourself if MD Chalice would win you more games than MD Leyline. Playing Shusher because you have Chalice MD just smells "danger of cool things."
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punki
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« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2008, 03:21:46 am » |
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I'm still not sold on shusher. I made t4 with him in the deck, and he gave me a free win against oath. But the only reason imo to play it is against decks were a resolved earwih squad with prowl = GG
All other instances i prefer aether vial: it gets around counters and chalice as well and it doesn't cost an extra mana per creature, instead it leaves open extra mana. Shusher takes away tempo and if earwig squad didn't have such a big impact on most tier 1 decks, I would never run shusher.
I think shusher > that changeling some people are running. But basing your deck around shusher and chalice, I do not like.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2008, 10:51:35 am » |
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I guess you'll have to ask yourself if MD Chalice would win you more games than MD Leyline. Playing Shusher because you have Chalice MD just smells "danger of cool things."
Seriously? Yes! Leyline: Painter - Doesn't Care ShopAgro - Doesn't Care MUD - Doesn't Care other aggro deck - Doesn't Care Tyrant Oath - Doesn't Care GAT - Minor hinderance (dangerous if followed by a quick clock) Combo/Tendrils - Hinderance ... but against a deck with no counterspells it should be able to win without Yawg. Staxless Stax - Crucible and Welder become very bad. Flash - Cares Ichorid - Auto-loses The Mirror - Doesn't Care Chalice @ 1: Painter - Loses REBs, Grindstone, Brainstorm, Ponder ... 1/3's for the win? ShopAgro - mostly doesn't care, probably best @0 MUD - basically doesn't care Tyrant Oath - loses Brainstorm, Ponder, Thoughsieze, Merchantscroll->Recall. Chalice @2 for Oath, Merchant Sroll, and Krosan Rec GAT - loses Brainstorm, Ponder, Toughtsieze, Duress, MS->Recall, Fastbond, Berserk (relevant bc you should have tons of blockers). Combo/Tendrils - Brainstorm, Ponder, Dark Ritual Staxless Stax - Welder, Sensies Top. Ichorid - You'd be surprized how much stopping Cabal Therepy matters... maybe not so much in the Goblins Matchup Flash - Brainstorm, Ponder, Chain of Vapor, Recall.. Chalice @2 stops Flash, Merchant Scroll. The Mirror - If they don't have Shusher... Lacky, Vial, Fanatic, Prospector (basically all thier accelleration).
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zabuza
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« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2008, 06:48:28 am » |
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i feel that now we must think on another direction. After testing the deck iīve decided to play 4 cabal therapy, to cut maulers and shusers and try to win as fast as possible.
In my deck-list i have lines and therapies as disruption but iīm not sold on it. Why not using extirpate instead of lines? The reason for this change is the following. Because we had terapies we can make the oponent discard anything (that could be a win condition) and after that we can extirpate them so we had a similar effect to the earwig squad ( i have 4 of them in my list too). Beside of that you can play 3 copies or two copies instead of the 4 of the lines. And if you draw it you surely can cast it (lines not). Beside of that players of flash can wait till can bounce your line to win but they are not prepared to an extirpate (usually they donīt play tgz or duress). The only situation in wich lines make me feel better is agaisnt ichorid (but you have prospectors, extirpates and fanatics to handle with them) and to a turn1 win from a flash player (but itīs not always as simple as that). I donīt know what to do so please any advice would be very well recived.
Another point to talk about is that i think we must run now in the main tin street hooligans but i donīt like them because: 1. If you have a warchief( what is good to us) you canīt play TSH to shatter an artifact. 2. We must include green to play with them. I think we need an isntant artifact kill because painters and dreadnoughts (and all stax types) people are playing now. Iīve tested with vandals (they are very bad) and with welders (they are bad too to this mission and if you play lines they donīt work well toghether) and with tinkerers (they are better than the others but is bad too) so i donīt know what can i use to solve that problem. Why none of the winners like Pikula, budde, etc. design a goblin witn 1cc that destroys artifacts sacrificing itself? It would be very well recived and make goblins to go to the top. XD XD XD.
Well thanks for reading and please make me know what do you think about all iīve writed before. thx
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Mantis
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« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2008, 08:42:25 am » |
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Try Ancient Grudge instead of Leyline then.
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Mantis
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« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2008, 04:42:32 am » |
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The new wave of restrictions are likely to change a lot in Vintage. With Gush and Brainstorm out of the way, Drain and Workshop based decks will likely see a huge increase in popularity. GAT is nuked and Oath might decline in popularity. Anyway, my conclusions of the new metagame was that they rely a lot more on their manabase to win the game. Oath, Flash and GAT could just operate with 2 mana, and there is no Brainstorm to fix the manabase. That said, I think attacking the opponents manabase while maintaining pressure might be a very good angle of attack. I came to the following Goblins list:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Earwig Squad 4 Piledriver 4 Warchief 4 Lackey 4 Mogg Fanatic 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Vandal 1 Goblin Ringleader 1 Goblin Sharpshooter 1 Goblin Tinkerer 1 Warren Weirding
4 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 1 Mox Ruby 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 4 Badlands 6 Fetch 5 Mountain
SB: 4 Shattering Spree 4 Red Elemental Blast 3 Extirpate 4 Leyline of the Void
It looks to me like this deck would destroy Workshop based decks. There antimana components will keep your opponent from getting 6 mana to play Triskelion and everything else they have can easily be handled by Vandals and Tinkerer. Mana Drain decks usally need a lot of mana to fuel stuff like TfK, Intuition AK and the big artifacts and you have your manadenial to stop this plan. Welder can easily be handled by Mogg Fanatic, Sharpshooter or Weirding and Chalice can prevent the opponent from getting out Moxen to switch the artifacts for. Lackey is great for circumventing Mana Drain.
Anyway, I'm interested to see your take on this approach. And to answer the following question; Will Goblins actually get better in the new metagame or will it actually get worse? Perhaps more importantly, do you think I'm wrong in my predictions of the new metagame?
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madmanmike25
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« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2008, 06:18:29 pm » |
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Two more questions for the Goblin players: 1) Is Earwig going to be as powerful and should it be a 4-of? 2) Should Aether Vial find its way back in Goblin decks to circumvent Drains and any mana denial components of a Shop deck?
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nero angelo
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« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2008, 01:06:21 am » |
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Is goblin Vandal a must today? 
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 ...Jedi Mind Tricks. They work.
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Mantis
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« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2008, 06:12:13 am » |
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Is goblin Vandal a must today?  It all depends on how many Shop decks we are going to see obviously. Other than that, I like one drop Goblins anyway. Two more questions for the Goblin players: 1) Is Earwig going to be as powerful and should it be a 4-of?
Earwig Squad is a huge bomb, it can singlehandedly destroy an opponent by removing all of it's win conditions or at least making winning a lot more difficult for the opponent. Other than that it's a great beatstick. 2) Should Aether Vial find its way back in Goblin decks to circumvent Drains and any mana denial components of a Shop deck?
Perhaps it should, I must I did find Aether Vial to be very slow, even against Mana Drain decks. While I believe Vial is very good against Stax, it's probably too slow to be of any relevance against Workshop Aggro. That said, I find Aether Vial a bit too situational.
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Thicketman
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« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2008, 07:22:29 am » |
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I have been testing goblins lately and I have found aether vial to be very nice. It allows you to drop multiple threats in a single turn or drop goblins on your opponents turn. Very nice! Also, it helps you keep up if they keep getting rid of your goblins.
As for earwig squad, I find they are amazing against all but workshop decks. In workshop decks, there are 4 of everything so it would take 3 or 4 earwigs to cripple them enough. Often earwig is just a good beatstick against them. Maybe removing their workshops from the library might be the best decision.
Goblin VANDAL, I'm not too impressed. I find it too slow. I would rather just drop an ingot chewer or shattering spree. You just can't search for them because they aren't goblins, but they work much much better. Tin street hooligan is the best goblin artifact destruction, but as an above poster stated, you need green and if warchief is in play, it negates the colorless part of the casting cost stripping the ability from hooligan.
I have also tested Vexxing shusher and chalice, but they seem to compromise the speed of goblins. I put shusher in the sideboard and removed chalice entirely. It was getting away from how goblins are played. Shushers are definitly good to side in against control though.
I'm thinking of leyline of the void because, so far without it, dredge is the worst match up. I'm not sure if I should mainboard or sideboard them however. Another idea may be Planar Void because goblins doesn't really use it's own graveyard, so why not use planar void because it is much easier to hardcast. I will do some testing with this.
Any other ideas would be great. Perhaps another 1 drop bomb.
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« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 11:24:27 am by Thicketman »
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Mantis
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« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2008, 10:20:12 am » |
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Thicketman, I hope you are kidding about Goblin Lackey, otherwise you have a very poor understanding of how Goblins works.
Planar Void is worse than Leyline of the Void for many reasons, but let's keep it on that Leyline is free and it's effect is more useful than Planar Void.
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Thicketman
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« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2008, 11:25:05 am » |
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Thicketman, I hope you are kidding about Goblin Lackey, otherwise you have a very poor understanding of how Goblins works.
Planar Void is worse than Leyline of the Void for many reasons, but let's keep it on that Leyline is free and it's effect is more useful than Planar Void.
Oops! I edited it. I meant vandal. Also, as far as planar void, I was also thinking it wouldn't stop sharpshooter because things still go to graveyard and then are rfg, where as leyline they go straight to rfg.
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Mantis
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« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2008, 01:46:31 pm » |
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Thicketman, I hope you are kidding about Goblin Lackey, otherwise you have a very poor understanding of how Goblins works.
Planar Void is worse than Leyline of the Void for many reasons, but let's keep it on that Leyline is free and it's effect is more useful than Planar Void.
Oops! I edited it. I meant vandal. Also, as far as planar void, I was also thinking it wouldn't stop sharpshooter because things still go to graveyard and then are rfg, where as leyline they go straight to rfg. About Vandal: He's key in the new metagame. People are just playing with bad manabases right now, and you can win against so many sketchy hands by just Wasting a land and killing a mox with Vandal. Without Brainstorm and to lesser extent Merchant Scroll blue decks are seriously hampered in their ability to keep sketchy hands. The aim of the decklist I presented was to punish this behavior and Vandal fits this plan perfectly. On Planar Void: Sure, it's better with Sharpshooter, but artifacts can still be Welded in, in resp to TfK for example. The most important reason however, is that you can put Leyline into play and it doesn't have to cost you any tempo. Planar Void can also be countered and you are not always going to have black in the first turn. I'm sure there are many more reasons, but I believe this is enough to justify Leyline over Planar Void anyway.
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Thicketman
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« Reply #84 on: June 11, 2008, 07:17:22 am » |
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Thicketman, I hope you are kidding about Goblin Lackey, otherwise you have a very poor understanding of how Goblins works.
Planar Void is worse than Leyline of the Void for many reasons, but let's keep it on that Leyline is free and it's effect is more useful than Planar Void.
Oops! I edited it. I meant vandal. Also, as far as planar void, I was also thinking it wouldn't stop sharpshooter because things still go to graveyard and then are rfg, where as leyline they go straight to rfg. About Vandal: He's key in the new metagame. People are just playing with bad manabases right now, and you can win against so many sketchy hands by just Wasting a land and killing a mox with Vandal. Without Brainstorm and to lesser extent Merchant Scroll blue decks are seriously hampered in their ability to keep sketchy hands. The aim of the decklist I presented was to punish this behavior and Vandal fits this plan perfectly. On Planar Void: Sure, it's better with Sharpshooter, but artifacts can still be Welded in, in resp to TfK for example. The most important reason however, is that you can put Leyline into play and it doesn't have to cost you any tempo. Planar Void can also be countered and you are not always going to have black in the first turn. I'm sure there are many more reasons, but I believe this is enough to justify Leyline over Planar Void anyway. I get your point about planar void although I am still not sold on the Vandal. I just think he is too slow. For the purpose of shutting off their moxes, I would much prefer a gorilla shaman even though it is not a goblin. Or even a viashino heretic. Right now I am sideboarding 2 ingot chewers, 2 shattering sprees, and a null rod and it seems to be working out much better than vandal did.
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Mantis
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Guus de Waard - Team R&D
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« Reply #85 on: June 13, 2008, 06:33:18 pm » |
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Gorilla Shaman is indeed better at shutting down moxen, but Vandal pump Piledriver, activates Squad, gets haste with Warchief and is better against Stax and against Slavers big artifacts. So basically they are still good against Moxen but are also good in just about every other situation where Shaman is awesome against Moxen but sucks in every other situation.
Anyway, I'll present my newest decklist. I am getting awesome results at MWS against Slaver, Stax, Fish and a lot of random decks, so I'm really happy with the list.
// Lands 4 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 4 Badlands 4 Wooded Foothills 1 Bloodstained Mire 2 Mountain 3 Taiga
// Creatures 4 Goblin Matron 4 Goblin Lackey 4 Goblin Piledriver 4 Goblin Warchief 4 Goblin Vandal 2 Goblin Tinkerer 1 Goblin Sharpshooter 4 Earwig Squad 4 Mogg Fanatic 1 Mad Auntie 4 Tin Street Hooligan
// Spells 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Ruby 1 Black Lotus 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Jet
// Sideboard SB: 4 Leyline of the Void SB: 3 Extirpate SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast SB: 3 Umezawa's Jitte
I am yet undecided about the sideboard, the Jittes have been performing pretty well but I do feel that both Leyline and Extirpate is a bit overkill. I feel that the large amount of artifact hate is putting this list over the top, with both Slaver and Stax using artifacts as their primary wincondition as well as their mana supply. This list basically attacks the format at so many angles, it can disrupt the mana supply, the ability to weld, their winconditions (Squad, artifact hate, Sharpshooter) or can just go crazy and win by turn 3.
So let me know what you think.
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kicks_422
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« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2008, 02:12:28 am » |
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Nice list. That's pretty close to what I had in mind when I started the Mana Denial thread - mana disruption and a quick clock. I have just a few questions though.
Why a Mad Auntie in there? Any particular reasons? I just want to hear your opinions on it.
No Goblin Ringleaders? I see that you're keeping the mana curve low, but is the potential AR-on-a-2/2 body still not worth it?
Also, your thoughts on Warren Weirding and Krosan Grips from the SB.
I'm considering moving the Warren Weirdings from my SB to the MD, switching it up with the Gempalm Incinerators I have there because of the presence of big bodies more than ever (Goyf, Workshop beaters, etc). The Krosan Grips are solely for the Oath MU, which is just near impossible to beat when relying solely on Squads.
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Mantis
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Guus de Waard - Team R&D
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« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2008, 07:41:17 am » |
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You bring up some very good points, I will try to answer your questions as accurately as possible. Why a Mad Auntie in there? Any particular reasons? I just want to hear your opinions on it.
Mad Auntie is there for several reasons. First of all, because a lot of the time I will have like 5 Goblins on board and Mad Auntie can bring in those extra points points of damage to finish of the opponent. Also, it's very good against aggro opponents as allows for a very favorable combat step with the regeneration possiblity + the P/T bonus. I noticed that opposing Goyfs gave me a lot of trouble and Mad Auntie can help here. No Goblin Ringleaders? I see that you're keeping the mana curve low, but is the potential AR-on-a-2/2 body still not worth it?
I really disliked Ringleaders at first because without Lackey they are just trash. Way overcosted and if you only get 1 or 2 Goblins out of it, then it's not really worth the investment anyway. Besides, I usually have something to do with my mana anyway. They also have a lot of dyssynergie with Wasteland. Recently I have been testing with one Ringleader and one Recruiter in the maindeck and that seems to be working out quite good, you can fetch the Recruiter with Matron and then get a superrefill next turn (took out 2 Vandals as I'm not really that impressed with them especially not in multiples, there are more than enough 1 drops anyway). Also, your thoughts on Warren Weirding and Krosan Grips from the SB.
I'm considering moving the Warren Weirdings from my SB to the MD, switching it up with the Gempalm Incinerators I have there because of the presence of big bodies more than ever (Goyf, Workshop beaters, etc). The Krosan Grips are solely for the Oath MU, which is just near impossible to beat when relying solely on Squads. First of all the SB as it is is garbage, I think I will take out the Extirpates. Jitte and REB haven't really conviced me either, so a lot can change. I must admit I haven't tested Krosan Grip, but it's a good suggestion and perhaps necessary if Oath will be a dominant force, although I'm concerned you will lose regardless to a turn 1 Oath. My most recent sideboard indeed contained more Warren Weirdings and I have one in the maindeck now as well (replacing the third Vandal). Although there must be better alternatives for killing creatures, as we only need one Weirding to search up with Matron. Anyway, I'm interested to see your list, perhaps you can PM it or post it here. - Mantis.
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Holmes
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« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2008, 08:02:39 am » |
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Referring to the list above, how do you feel about the multiple hooligans? As warchief is in play, they become vanilla goblins and this has bothered me a lot. Still, you're also playing tinkerers. What's the plan with hooligans? Are they there for simply a first/second turn artifact hate? I believe so, as they begin to suck later on.
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Mantis
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Guus de Waard - Team R&D
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« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2008, 01:29:25 pm » |
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Well the general idea is that if you manage to stick Warchief you shouldn't have much trouble winning afterwards anyway, and if you do have trouble winning even with Warchief in play you probably aren't going to win anyway. I mean, Piledrivers become awesome with Warchief in play.
And with Warchief Tin Street Hooligan are 2/1 Haste creatures, I mean that's better than Kird Ape and Isamaru and they have also seen play. But in every situation where you have no Warchief, Hooligan is simply amazing. Also, if you do happen to draw both, you can always play Hooligan first and then Warchief.
I mean, sure you are right and Hooligan does become worse with Warchief out, but it's simply too good not to run because of such a minor lack in synergy.
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