Interaction: Grindstone + Multiple DSCs in library

[Shock Wave]

I'd like some help understanding how these scenarios resolve:

(A) My opponent has a Painter's Servant and Grindstone in play. Grindstone activation resolves, and I have 1 DSC in my library.

My understanding: During the Grindstone resolution, if DSC is hit, it is shuffled back into my library after the Grindstone effect resolves. The end result is that DSC is the last card in my library because alone, it cannot satisfy the two-card condition that allows the Grindstone effect to continue.

(B) My opponent has a Painter's Servant and Grindstone in play. Grindstone activation resolves, and I have 2 or 4 DSC in my library.

My understanding: All DSCs are shuffled back into my library after the Grindstone effect resolves, and then the Grindstone effect continues infinitely without any player getting priority again. The game is a draw.

(C) My opponent has a Painter's Servant and Grindstone in play. Grindstone activation resolves, and I have 3 DSC in my library.

My understanding: All 3 DSC are shuffled back into the library after the Grindstone effect resolves, then the two are milled off the top, and then the next iteration of the loop fails because only 1 card is left in the library. After the loop stops, all 3 are shuffled back into the library and the active player has priority again.

Something tells me I am horribly mistaken, but I would appreciate it if a judge could clarify.

[The Atog Lord]

To further complicate things, what happens if there is a Yixlid Jailer in play in any of these scenarios? I realize that because it is a replacement ability, the DSC never actually hits the graveyard. However, in which zone is the DSC when the text for his triggered ability is "read"?

[ELD]

To further complicate things, what happens if there is a Yixlid Jailer in play in any of these scenarios? I realize that because it is a replacement ability, the DSC never actually hits the graveyard. However, in which zone is the DSC when the text for his triggered ability is "read"?

Darksteel says you shuffle *instead of* putting it into the graveyard. This replaces the original action, so he doesn't actually enter your graveyard. Yixlid Jailer never affects it.  This is different from a Triggered Ability.  If he had a triggered ability, like Gaea's Blessing, then the trigger would never go on the stack. 

As far as the first post goes, it is my understanding that DSC's replacement effect happens in the middle of the resolution of Grindstone's activated ability resolving.  This means if you have only a single DSC, you'd end up with just him in your library.  If you had multiple DSC's you'd be stuck in an infinite loop and the game would be a draw. 

[moxpearl]

Another follow-up question is do the cards actually have to go to the graveyard to check grindstone's repeating process?  For example, if Leyline of the Void is out, would Grindstone stop after two cards?  In this case, 1 DSC could stop the process as two cards never went into the graveyard.

And just to verify, you don't mill them one at a time, correct?  So, you can't mill the same DSC twice if it's the last card in your graveyard?  I'm thinking of dredge and bazaar, where draws are done 1 at a time.

[ELD]

My understanding is both cards are put into the graveyard at the same time.  This is different from drawing cards, as each card draw is it's own event.  I do not believe that the effect of Grindstone is dependent on the cards going to the graveyard.  I believe the cards characteristics are checked regardless of where how replacement effects shuffle them around. 

Scarecrow does bring up a lot of interesting questions, like if Glittering Wish allows you to choose Lightning Bolt from outside the game.  I would say yes, based off the definition of Mulitcolored in the glossary of the comprehensive rules:

A multicolored card has two or more colors.

I look forward to the official rulings on these issues. 

[Clariax]

Put the top two cards of target player's library into that player's graveyard. If both cards share a color, repeat this process.

If Darksteel Colossus would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, reveal Darksteel Colossus and shuffle it into its owner's library instead.

Grindstone mills 2 cards at the same time, and Darksteel Colossus's ability is static, not triggered, and creates a replacement effect. 

So the simplest of these questions to cover is that of Yixlid Jailer.  The Colossuses never are in the graveyard, so Jailer's ability will never affect them.

Since Grindstone mills 2 cards at the same time, you will see both and move both at the same time, so if one is a DSC, the other will still be milled before the DSC gets shuffled in.  The shuffling in replaces the put into graveyard though, so they will get shuffled in before you repeat the process.  So if you have 2 or more DSCs (or Serra Avatars or Legacy Weapons) in your library, the result will be an infinite loop with no optional actions for either player meaning the game ends in a draw.

If there is a single DSC/Avatar/Weapon in the library then eventually you will reach the point where that is the only card left in the library.  You will have Grindstone telling you to mill 2 cards, but with only 1 card will do as much as possible, milling that one card.  Since there is no second card, there's no possibility of sharing a color, so the one card gets shuffled back in, and the process does NOT get repeated, leaving you with just the one card in your library.

And just to verify, you don't mill them one at a time, correct?  So, you can't mill the same DSC twice if it's the last card in your graveyard?
I'm thinking of dredge and bazaar, where draws are done 1 at a time.

If an effect tells you to "Draw X cards," you treat it as X separate instances of "Draw a card."  This is specific to drawing cards only, and doesn't apply to other actions

As for effects like that of Leyline of the Void, Grindstone does not care where the cards actually end up, just whether or not the 2 cards share a color.

Scarecrow does bring up a lot of interesting questions, like if Glittering Wish allows you to choose Lightning Bolt from outside the game.  I would say yes, based off the definition of Mulitcolored in the glossary of the comprehensive rules:

Painter's Servant does not interact with sideboards at all.  The sideboard is outside the game completely, so a Painter's Servant will not change what you can get with Glittering Wish.

[ELD]

Painter's Servant does not interact with sideboards at all.  The sideboard is outside the game completely, so a Painter's Servant will not change what you can get with Glittering Wish.

How does the sideboard factor in here?  Does this statement apply to all cards that are removed from game?  Is there a logic behind this, or is this just the way the DCI decided it would be given the unusual card interaction? 

      As Painter's Servant comes into play, choose a color.
All cards that aren't in play, spells, and permanents are the chosen color in addition to their other colors.

[Yare]

Continuous Effects can only affect game objects in game zones. Cards which
aren't part of the game (those in the sideboard/or "binder zone")
aren't objects until something brings them into the game (such as a
wish). As such, things like Painter's Servant or Celestial Dawn don't
change their colour.

217.1. A zone is a place where objects can be during a game. There are normally six zones: library, hand, graveyard, in play, stack, and removed from the game. Some older cards also use the ante and phased-out zones. Each player has his or her own library, hand, and graveyard. The other zones are shared by all players.

So, the removed from game zone is a zone in the game, but the sideboard is outside the game.  Hence, Painter's Servant basically affects all cards that are not in the sideboard. This is based upon the DCI's insistence that the sideboard is not part of the current game (the same reason for the incredibly illogical Wish+Mindslaver ruling).

[ELD]

Scarecrow does bring up a lot of interesting questions, like if Glittering Wish allows you to choose Lightning Bolt from outside the game.  I would say yes, based off the definition of Mulitcolored in the glossary of the comprehensive rules:

Quote
A multicolored card has two or more colors.

So back to my original question.  Can Glittering Wish allow you to choose Lightning Bolt from outside the game? 

[Apollyon]

If Lightning Bolt was removed from something like Tormod's Crypt, then you can Glittering Wish for it. But if it was in your sideboard/binder, then you can't.

[bronxie]

if the grindstone is moving infinitely, can you not respond to one of the triggers of it repeating with an ancestral recall to win the game?

[Clariax]

There's no triggers invovled to respond to.  It's all just the resolution of the single activated ability.  And since the ability never finishes resolving, the game cannot continue, which is why is it a draw.

[The Chosen One]

along the same lines, does gaea's blessing nueter the grindtone combo?

[Clariax]

Gaea's Blessing triggers during the resolution of the Grindstone ability, but the trigger doesn't go on the stack until after the Grindstone ability is done resolving.  If the Grindstone ability never finishes resolving, due to multiple DSCs or similar, then the Blessing trigger can never go on the stack, game ends in a draw.  Assuming the Grindstone ability does finish resolving, then Blessing trigger goes on the stack, and the game continues as normal.

along the same lines, does gaea's blessing nueter the grindtone combo?