[Deck] Why innovate when you can just hit the format with a sledgehammer?

[The Boy Noodle]

if you take a look at my 3rd place deck list write up in the tournament forums under central jersey time walk you can get an idea

[islanderboi10]

Thanks.
I am really interested in this deck.
So what has a sideboard started to look like?

What are the dtb anyways?
Slaver
Grim Long
What else?

[personalbackfire]

So what has a sideboard started to look like?

From the lists I have seen spheres, powder kegs and jester caps would be a good place to start with a sideboard. I have also seen shattering spree in sideboards to combot other workshop decks. Generally sideboards are subject to the metagame you play in though.

[AngryPheldagrif]

I hate recommending a global sideboard since your options off a 5-color/Workshop manabase tend to be much more fine-tuned than blue-based sideboards.

One card I strongly recommend AGAINST is Shattering Spree. Rarely do you get multiple red mana (and using it against Magus of the Moon is so narrow as to be ridiculous), especially in the Workshop mirror against their own Wastelands, and there are many stronger cards to use and weaker matchups to shore up.

A sample board I'm using for a fairly combo-centric metagame:

4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Duplicant
1 Triskelion
2 Jester's Cap
3 Seal of Cleansing
2 Powder Keg

[desolutionist]

My sideboard is pretty similar

4 Sphere of Resistance
2 Duplicant
2 Jester's Cap
2 Powder Keg
2 Pithing Needle
1 Darkblast
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Tormod's Crypt

Seal of Cleansing seems a lot better than some of the garbage in mine.  Oath is a pretty scary matchup.

[Dr. Digglesworth]

<ultra-long post snipped>

I hope this qualifies as point-by-point enough for you. I have read each one of your posts quite thoroughly. Your argument is based upon cherry-picked scenarios and points of view. I offer that Stax is the inferior version on the simple basis that its historical predator, Control Slaver, is considered the top deck right now and sees a tremendous amount of play.

I would welcome a proof that Stax is superior from a macro outlook.

I still disagree with a number of points you made here, and also on your assertion that my argument is based on "cherry picked scenarios and points of view", although I doubt it would be very productive to continue to argue things here.

Nonetheless, I thank you for taking the time to clarify your position.

[waywreth]

I took 8th place at a recent Myriad Games event with a slightly modified version of the list.  Overall I started off 3-0 in the Swiss, losing my final two matchups (against a modified Sex deck, and CounterSlaver).  I got in on the 3rd tiebreak, and lost in the first round of the top 8 (to CounterSlaver).

The one Gaea's Blessing actually won me a round, as the Painter/Slaver player didn't realize I had one on the side.  I would definately keep that.  My most difficult matchups were with Counter-Slaver, due to the welder action.  If he got one down first, I lost.  I definately need to replace some of the cards with more removal for welders.  I'm going to replace one of the main deck Leylines with Darkblast, and the other with either another Sphere or perhaps Pithing Needle.  My other issue with the deck is that it does so much better when it goes first - like any shop deck, and I can't win a die roll... went 1-5.

Sideboard wise, I will likely play 4 Leyline's over the Powder Keg's/spheres, and one Slice/Dice.

8th -- Gilded Claw
2x Leyline of the Void
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Sphere of Resistance
1x Trinisphere
4x Goblin Welder
4x Juggernaut
2x Triskelion
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Sundering Titan
2x Crucible of Worlds
1x Memory Jar
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Tinker
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Crop Rotation
1x Balance
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Strip Mine
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Workshop
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
4x City of Brass
1x Coalition Relic
2x Bazaar of Baghdad

Sideboard
2x Duplicant
2x Sphere of Resistance
2x Jester's Cap
2x Rack and Ruin
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
3x Powder Keg
1x Gaea's Blessing

[credmond]

This deck is still a decent choice for the current metagame.

A recent combo has come to light that might fit into the gilded claw basic shell.

Leyline of the Void combos with helm of obedience to mill the opponent to death (much like grindstone combo).

helm of obedience
X,tap : Target opponent puts cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard until a creature card or X cards are put into that graveyard this way, whichever comes first. If a creature card is put into that graveyard this way, sacrifice Helm of Obedience and put that card into play under your control. X can't be 0.

When leyline of the void is in play you can put 1 or more mana into helm of possession to mill away the opponents entire library. It will keep milling since nothing is going into the graveyard and neither of its conditions are being met for it to stop milling.

This deck can tinker or tutor or weld up the helm and also hard cast leylines easily with coalition relic and possibly an urborg or two thrown in the list. This combo seems to be worthy of serious consideration since, and only since, leylines of the voids are by themselves so good as free turn zero disruption against so many decks out there and you can tutor up the helm when appropriate or bazaar it away when appropriate. Having a helm as a one of seems like it is only strengthening the deck by giving it a win-on-the-spot combo (provided you are already playing the full suite of leylines). Helm is also randomly good against creature heavy decks and it can do things like mess with the opponents top deck tutors.

corrected

[IthilanorStPete]

That's Helm of Obedience, not Helm of Possesion.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Actually you would have to put the mana into Helm for that to work.  If you tap 3 mana and activate Helm for 3 with Leyline out, it will mill 3 cards and then stop.

[Beatdown]

I'm not saying your wrong, but starcity says otherwise...

http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/judgefinder.php?keywords=Helm+of+Obedience

[Tha Gunslinga]

Wow, that's absolutely insane.

[credmond]

At my suggestion, Lotushead tested out a singleton helm of obedience in a gilded claw style deck this Sunday at Eudemonia (featuring smokestacks and gilded lotus) and made it to top 4 in a diverse field of 37. Leylines were huge for him (the field had lots of welders, ichorids, combo, and even a ravager affinity deck with skull clamps) and the combo finish came out for him in his first match against a long style deck.

The overall value of this combo rests squarely on the value of 4 leylines in this deck. If 4 leylines boost this deck for your meta then a singleton of helm is a logical addition.

The helm of obedience combo seems to be a solid one when going against storm decks where they are typically trying to build up mana to bounce all your artifacts and you want to finish the match quickly before they even get a chance to do so. Stax otherwise lacks a win-on-the-spot combo and the need for one does come up, and games are indeed lost because an opponent slips away right at the moment where you almost had them with whatever beats you were applying.

Also , while the utility of helm on its own without leyline is narrow, its not insignificant that it can mess with the opponents top deck tutors and it can be a solid tool entirely on its own against the random creature-based aggro decks that can give stax a hard time often (like goblins).

[Tha Gunslinga]

If you're having issues with Long bouncing your artifacts you can always SB Meddling Mages; they're not that difficult with your 5-color manabase, and a Mage on Tendrils means they need Chain or they're screwed.

[LotusHead]

At my suggestion, Lotushead tested out a singleton helm of obedience in a gilded claw style deck this Sunday at Eudemonia (featuring smokestacks and gilded lotus) and made it to top 4 in a diverse field of 37. Leylines were huge for him (the field had lots of welders, ichorids, combo, and even a ravager affinity deck with skull clamps) and the combo finish came out for him in his first match against a long style deck.

To be fair, I threw the deck together in 10 minutes, and the one time I used Helm what when my opponent stared down a Trinisphere turn 1 (he played DoomsDay) and I had all the time in the world to finish him. I just wanted the new combo to work against a fun opponent (don't we all love losing in new ways?)

out of 6 rounds of swiss and two games of top 8 (one round was ID), Leylines came up 3 times. Round 1 vs Doomsday (whoot!), and Top 8 vs Crushing Chamber (shut down Skullclamp) and another round it provided fodder to discard to Bazaar of Baghdad).

Maindeck Leylines in Stax or the Claw is a risk that can randomly pwn opponents, but I haven't adequately thought about the mulligan process for game 1.  I've had leylines in SB for shops.dec for a long time, and I know about mulliganing on g2/g3, but g1? I dunno, thoughts anyone?

I would consider building a Control Slaverish shell around the leyiine/helm thing (maybe the helm would replace Mindslaver as it is rare to slaver opponents these days it seems), but I might just go back to Bombermanesque strategies...
A slaver shell would allow for more tutorage to win instead of lucksackery with Shops.

[CHOZO]

Just out of curiosity, what did your deck list look like?

[LotusHead]

Just out of curiosity, what did your deck list look like?

Jeff Neilson - Obeyline! - 3rd/4th

Maindeck
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Gilded Lotus
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Gemstone Mine
3 City of Brass
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Trinisphere
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Goblin Welder
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Memory Jar
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timewalk
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Duplicant
1 Triskellion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Karn, Silver Golem
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Smokestack
4 Chalice of the Void
Sideboard
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Triskelion
2 Platinum Angel
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Pithing Needle
1 Thorn of Amethyst

[waywreth]

Thanks for posting the list.  A few questions if you don't mind:
Why smokestack over Juggernaut in this case, was it a metagame call?  Did you play any painter decks, I'm curious as to that matchup since it seems to be popular near me.  And finally, why Gilded Lotus over Coalition Relic?

Did you ever miss Crop Rotation?  I played it in my version, but it only really mattered one match, and on more than one occasion sat dead in my hand.  You have more CoW and Gemstone mines to play it, so I can see it being more viable.

[LotusHead]

Thanks for posting the list.  A few questions if you don't mind:
Why smokestack over Juggernaut in this case, was it a metagame call?  Did you play any painter decks, I'm curious as to that matchup since it seems to be popular near me.  And finally, why Gilded Lotus over Coalition Relic?

Did you ever miss Crop Rotation?  I played it in my version, but it only really mattered one match, and on more than one occasion sat dead in my hand.  You have more CoW and Gemstone mines to play it, so I can see it being more viable.

My teammate had The Gilded Claw circa 2006 built for me (with 3 Intuitions etc), and 10 minutes before the tourney, I switched up 20 cards maindeck to try they leyline Helm thing.

I chose Gilded Lotus over coalition relic because I don't own any coalition relics and my 2 Gilded Loti are pimped altered ones.

I faced Painter.dec in top 4. Game 1 I mulled to 5 and he won die roll, got Mox Mana Crypt action. Game 2 My hand sucked but I managed to live for a while but it was not enough and I played poorly.

Sometime I play with Crop Rotation, but I don't own one anymore so I haven't thought to use it. as for Smokestack vs Juggs, I literally switched up 20 maindeck cards 10 minutes before the tourney.  There wasn't much thought put into it, just Fatties and Lock Peices and call it a deck.

[CHOZO]

I really like this leyline/helm combo. Do you think it would be possible to build a deck around it using serum powders and stuff like that to make it consistent?

[Skadrian]

that would make it a belcher-like deck I think. It needs two mana less to combo out, but you need to find the leyline in your opening hand. You can play a better manabase (you can use lands), which you need because you cant mulligan to find a better hand just for mana. I dont know if the two mana is important enough, I dont play vintage myself, but you could try