So Many Insane Plays - Vintage MasterClass

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/16108.html

Blurb:

In Today’s ‘Insane Plays,’ Stephen faces Vintage master, Rich Shay, to test the Control Slaver mirror. Watch Stephen battle Rich Shay, play-by-play, through a set of five games as he learns the ins and outs of playing in the New Vintage. This is not to be missed!

[Gekoratel]

I really liked the article as it showed a fair amount of interaction behind one of the most popular decks and common mistakes players can make while running it.  Running 3-4 Tops does seem like a recipe for draws unless your are a very fast player who also makes correct decisions quickly.  Two small things from the article you Drained Shusher one game and he can't be countered.  The other was in game 3 turn 5 the following occured.

Rich topdecks the Shusher. He taps his two Volcs and casts Shusher. I respond by Thirsting. I draw: Gifts, DT, and Yawgmoth’s Will. I decide to discard Yawgmoth’s Will and Demonic Tutor.
He plays Mox Jet.
I untap and draw another Thirst. I have to Tinker away Lotus Petal with only a Delta untapped. Awful! I can’t even play a Drain to protect my Tinker! Of all the artifacts I could have!
He hard casts Force on my Tinker and I Force it back, pitching Gifts. He plays Mana Drain and I Force again. I get Trike and kill his Shusher. I consider getting DSC, but his life a little bit low thanks to Mana Crypt rolls.

On Shay's original Force on Tinker did he have any Red or Green mana up at this point to protect the spell with Shusher because if he had mana to Drain back it would seem unlikely he only had Islands and U. Sea in play but this could have been the case.  Thanks for the article.

[Smmenen]

I really liked the article as it showed a fair amount of interaction behind one of the most popular decks and common mistakes players can make while running it.  Running 3-4 Tops does seem like a recipe for draws unless your are a very fast player who also makes correct decisions quickly.  Two small things from the article you Drained Shusher one game and he can't be countered. 

You can still Drain Shusher, he just won't be countered.  I did it for the Mana.

The other was in game 3 turn 5 the following occured.

Rich topdecks the Shusher. He taps his two Volcs and casts Shusher. I respond by Thirsting. I draw: Gifts, DT, and Yawgmoth’s Will. I decide to discard Yawgmoth’s Will and Demonic Tutor.
He plays Mox Jet.
I untap and draw another Thirst. I have to Tinker away Lotus Petal with only a Delta untapped. Awful! I can’t even play a Drain to protect my Tinker! Of all the artifacts I could have!
He hard casts Force on my Tinker and I Force it back, pitching Gifts. He plays Mana Drain and I Force again. I get Trike and kill his Shusher. I consider getting DSC, but his life a little bit low thanks to Mana Crypt rolls.

On Shay's original Force on Tinker did he have any Red or Green mana up at this point to protect the spell with Shusher because if he had mana to Drain back it would seem unlikely he only had Islands and U. Sea in play but this could have been the case.  Thanks for the article.

No, he didn't have any green or red.   

[John Jones]

You can still Drain Shusher, he just won't be countered.  I did it for the Mana.

How does this work? I thought you can't counter it because it wouldn't be a legal target.

[Harlequin]

Shusher is still a spell,  It just can't be "countered."  For an ability that reads "Counter Target Spell." the only requirement for targeting is that your target is a spell.  For something like "Counter Target Instant or Sorcery" (like disrupt) Shusher, or any other creature is an illegal target.  So to make shusher an illegal target you would have to put a qualifier on the target like ... "Counter Target Counterable Spell."   

Also drain doesn't have any sort of "if you do" clause so Drain will try to resolve as much as possible so long as the target still exsists and is still legal.

This is basically the same as using Artifact Mutation on Darksteel Colosus.  You get 11 1/1's and they keep the dude.  In this case, You get 2 mana and they keep the dude.

[Smmenen]

You can still Drain Shusher, he just won't be countered.  I did it for the Mana.

How does this work? I thought you can't counter it because it wouldn't be a legal target.

Why not? 

[wiley]

I have question regarding slaver and tinker.  How aggressive should you be with tinker?  For instance, if you have the option for a turn 1 tinker off island + crypt and have force protection to you get slaver out and let it sit until you have 4 mana?  Do you go for a different target (titan/colossus)?  How much does it depend on whether or not you have access to welder?

Currently I have been playing it so that if I have a turn 1 tinker with or without protection I go after titan either turn 1 or turn 2 depending on how strong other turn 1 plays seemed (ancestral, time walk, welder etc.).  I have yet to drop a game like this in testing but still can't help but feel it could be stronger.

Also, what judgment do you use on when to activate slaver?  If you have the chance do you do it?  If it requires your entire turn investment do you still do it?


Excellent article btw.  It has already helped me to correct some of my mistakes in building.

[John Jones]

Shusher is still a spell,  It just can't be "countered."  For an ability that reads "Counter Target Spell." the only requirement for targeting is that your target is a spell.  For something like "Counter Target Instant or Sorcery" (like disrupt) Shusher, or any other creature is an illegal target.  So to make shusher an illegal target you would have to put a qualifier on the target like ... "Counter Target Counterable Spell."   

Also drain doesn't have any sort of "if you do" clause so Drain will try to resolve as much as possible so long as the target still exsists and is still legal.

This is basically the same as using Artifact Mutation on Darksteel Colosus.  You get 11 1/1's and they keep the dude.  In this case, You get 2 mana and they keep the dude.

Ahh thats really good to know. So you can absorb a Shusher and gain the 3 life from absorb. (lost me a game in 5-color)

[DarkfnTemplar]

You can't play absorb on a shusher. If you do, it means you are playing absorb.

[Smmenen]

I have question regarding slaver and tinker.  How aggressive should you be with tinker?  For instance, if you have the option for a turn 1 tinker off island + crypt and have force protection to you get slaver out and let it sit until you have 4 mana?  Do you go for a different target (titan/colossus)?  How much does it depend on whether or not you have access to welder?


Excellent article btw.  It has already helped me to correct some of my mistakes in building.

I play DSC, so I would T1 Tinker for DSC.  I run DSC for that reason.   I think Tinker should be used aggressively.   If they can answer your threat, at least you will have the tempo advantage. 

[IthilanorStPete]

You can't play absorb on a shusher. If you do, it means you are playing absorb.

What on earth are you talking about? It's the same thing as Drain.

[Nefarias]

You can't play absorb on a shusher. If you do, it means you are playing absorb.

What on earth are you talking about? It's the same thing as Drain.

He was just saying that playing Absorb in and of itself is bad. He was merely making fun of Absorb, not debating the rules.

[Aneurysm]

EDIT: Sorry Smennen, that was uncalled for. At least you admitted to your mistakes. That's how we get better, after all.

[JoshuaD]

I've got a few questions about the choices you made.  I've been trying to put together a slaver list I like and there are some things about the lists you put forward that I don't understand.

Memory Jar - Why no memory jar?  It generates massive card advantage and loads up your graveyard for the welder.

The Mana Base - 15 Lands, 10 Broken Artifact Mana.  Any reasoning behind this?  I was running 13 lands, 1 library, and 9 artifact mana at the last tourny I played, and I didn't run into mana problems.  I tend to think I should increase my count by one island, but I'd like to hear what you think in general.

Lotus Petal - Why?  You have this in most of your lists, and you offered two reasons that I saw; One, to fuel a first turn mana drain, and second, when your opponent plays bad and doesn't see you have a petal you can weld in to support a drain. 

I calculated a 6.5% chance of having {drain, petal, blue mana} in your starting hand.  This doesn't account for the 20-30% of the time that you're not going to want to drain his first spell (if he casts one).  I think realistically this factors into about 4% of your games.  I won't argue that it's a very nice 4%, but is it worth a slot?   I'm not convinced either way.  How much is this worth?  [As an aside:  I'm much more convinced this is right after running the numbers.  My first faulty calculation showed it as being relevant about 2% of the time.  4% is a lot more.]

There are certainly other upsides to it; It has the nice trick with welder/drain, it has synergy with yawgmoth's will, it activates the welder/top draw engine early (often times I'll have the top and welder but no artifact in the graveyard).  I'm just having trouble justifying it, it seems like you could use that slot for another bomb.  Could you expand on your thinking some here?

Mindslaver:  Why two?  You talk about how 3 and 4 probably aren't right in your article, and I agree with that, but it seems to me you'd rather have a wide variety of bombs available rather than two of the same.  In a lot of places you'll have access to whatever bombs your running, two slavers is pretty redundant here.  It seems having a diverse toolbox is more valuable than having a redundant slaver.  I've only been playing the deck for 2 months now, but I've never had it come up where I had will'd and activated a slaver and had to remove the slaver from the game.
 
Counterbalance:  Any thoughts on this card?  Helps the long matchup, very synergetic with top, and just all around annoying. 

Aether/Pyrice Spellbombs:  Any good?  I haven't gotten a chance to test them yet.  My impression is that they're gonna be junk.

Empty the Warrens:  I want this main deck.  Our deck gets very sad when it's up against a leyline or even a single tormod's crypt.  I think it's good to have another non-graveyard based win.  EtW seems like a very good choice.

Fact or Fiction vs Gifts Ungiven:  Why do you like Gifts better?

And to piss everyone off:

Brainstorm:  Do we really need one?  The deck is incredibly tight.  Top is nearly as good immediately and much better long run. 


This is what I'm currently working with.  It's 61 cards and I've got 6 more that want in.

Draw Engine (9):
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Recall
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Gifts Ungiven
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Tutors (4):
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll

Metagame Slots (4):
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Echoing Truth
1 Counterbalance

Win Conditions (5):
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Triskelion
1 Pentavus
1 Mindslaver
1 Empty the Warrens

Counterspells (8):
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

Misc:
4 Goblin Welders
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker

Artifact Mana (10):
5 Moxes
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal

Land Mana (14):
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy

Cards that want in:
1 Intuition
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Brainstorm
1 Memory Jar
1 Fire//Ice
1 Rack and Ruin

[JoshuaD]

Lotus Petal Math:

The odds of drawing {Petal, Mana Drain, Blue Source} in that order are (1*4*16) / (60*59*58), or  (64 / 205320).

There are six permutations of these cards, so you have a 6 * (64 / 205320) percent chance of drawing these in a 3 card hand. (384/205320)

There are 35 ways you can draw three cards in a 7 card hand, so the odds of having a starting hand with these three cards pre-mulligan is 35 * (384/205320), or ~6.54%.

[Anusien]

Lotus Petal - Why?  You have this in most of your lists, and you offered two reasons that I saw; One, to fuel a first turn mana drain, and second, when your opponent plays bad and doesn't see you have a petal you can weld in to support a drain.

Lotus Petal is also really good off a Yawgmoth's Will.  In many cases, Lotus Petal is better than an off-color Mox because of the ability to drain on the first turn or to produce Welders.  The extra mana might not as significant in the CS mirror, but having the extra free source against Stax can be incredibly important.

I've liked Memory Jar in CS, but I can see it simply not fitting.  It's also slightly redundant with Gifts, and I can see Stephen liking the Gifts more.

2 versus 1 Mindslaver was always a factor of whether you needed to cut the 2nd Mindslaver for room for another robot.  Having 2 is nice so you don't need to Tinker into it.

By the way, the day I can shuffle Darksteel Colossus back into my library with Sensei's Divining Top is the day I cut Brainstorm.  Not before.
Plus: Null Rod and FoW

[Zherbus]

Memory Jar - Why no memory jar?  It generates massive card advantage and loads up your graveyard for the welder.

It's not automatic card advantage. It's potentially symmetrical. It's also one of those cards that is rarely better than just Tinkering up a Slaver or Bot and just winning. It's also a big old brown skid mark on your underwear on a date with Ichorid. You just try to avoid knowing it exists. Every time I tried running it, I ended up cutting it. It's not terrible, but it's not an auto-include.

The Mana Base - 15 Lands, 10 Broken Artifact Mana.  Any reasoning behind this?  I was running 13 lands, 1 library, and 9 artifact mana at the last tourny I played, and I didn't run into mana problems.  I tend to think I should increase my count by one island, but I'd like to hear what you think in general.

I'm somewhere in between you and Stephen. I think 13 blue lands is pretty freakin' risky. I think 15 is a bit much.

Lotus Petal - Why?  You have this in most of your lists, and you offered two reasons that I saw; One, to fuel a first turn mana drain, and second, when your opponent plays bad and doesn't see you have a petal you can weld in to support a drain.

...

Lotus Petal Math:

The odds of drawing {Petal, Mana Drain, Blue Source} in that order are (1*4*16) / (60*59*58), or  (64 / 205320).

There are six permutations of these cards, so you have a 6 * (64 / 205320) percent chance of drawing these in a 3 card hand. (384/205320)

There are 35 ways you can draw three cards in a 7 card hand, so the odds of having a starting hand with these three cards pre-mulligan is 35 * (384/205320), or ~6.54%.

Did you take into account the times you also get:

Land + Mox + Walk
Land + Sapphire + Drain
Black Lotus + Drain

I run Lotus Petal strictly to get online more reliably in the early game. It enhances those chances. Beyond that, it's still pretty good. An auto-include? Probably more so in a deck with few "answer cards" in a field that has Control Slavers "number" so to speak.

Counterbalance:  Any thoughts on this card?  Helps the long matchup, very synergetic with top, and just all around annoying. 

Brian DeMars and I had a Counterbalance Slaver list(s) pre-restrictions. It was neat, but despite getting a T8 with it, it was underwhelming. The problem with it in Vintage is that it's a late game card, since you're not likely to get it really "online" before turn 3. Slaver isn't about shoring up it's late game, if you know what I mean. I like CB, but not here.

Aether/Pyrice Spellbombs:  Any good?  I haven't gotten a chance to test them yet.  My impression is that they're gonna be junk.

Even in the Trinket Slaver lists, it's better to just run Engineered Explosives. If you get Welder recurring, you win anyway.

Empty the Warrens:  I want this main deck.  Our deck gets very sad when it's up against a leyline or even a single tormod's crypt.  I think it's good to have another non-graveyard based win.  EtW seems like a very good choice.

I had some romancing with this in modern control decks. It's the absolute dog shit at times, which is a huge problem with it being a maindeck card. To me, it was always a card that planned on your primary game plan failing and helped it do so when you drew it, instead of bounce or a tutor.

Fact or Fiction vs Gifts Ungiven:  Why do you like Gifts better?

Fact lets you see five cards. They could be really good or really bad. Gifts sets you up with cards to win every time.

Brainstorm:  Do we really need one?  The deck is incredibly tight.  Top is nearly as good immediately and much better long run.

Oh yeah. When you're running a deck with so much clunky artifacts, it sure is nice to shuffle some awkwardness away.

[ErkBek]

I thought this was an excellent piece and I'd like to see more articles like this. Your descriptions of the game were easy to follow and you had just the right amount of analysis.

I did learn from this article, specifically from your first mistake on the Sensei's Top into a fetchland. Swapping the top for Delta there didn't even cross my mind until you pointed out how good of a play that was considering your hand.

[JoshuaD]

Memory Jar - Why no memory jar?  It generates massive card advantage and loads up your graveyard for the welder.

It's not automatic card advantage. It's potentially symmetrical. It's also one of those cards that is rarely better than just Tinkering up a Slaver or Bot and just winning. It's also a big old brown skid mark on your underwear on a date with Ichorid. You just try to avoid knowing it exists. Every time I tried running it, I ended up cutting it. It's not terrible, but it's not an auto-include.

How is it potentially symetrical?  There are a few rare cases where this might be true, but nine times out of ten he sits there as I shuffle 8 or 9 cards around in my hand.  If he's very lucky he gets to counter two of them, more likely than not he gets one or none.

The other upside is that it activates the welder very nicely.  It puts the jar in the 'yard so you can weld things in and out like trike and top, and it probably drops another artifact bomb down there.

I'm not currently running it, but I am unconvinced either way about it.  I played a game just last night against stax where I would've loved to have it as a tinker target.

Lotus Petal - Why?  You have this in most of your lists, and you offered two reasons that I saw; One, to fuel a first turn mana drain, and second, when your opponent plays bad and doesn't see you have a petal you can weld in to support a drain.

Did you take into account the times you also get:

Land + Mox + Walk
Land + Sapphire + Drain
Black Lotus + Drain

I run Lotus Petal strictly to get online more reliably in the early game. It enhances those chances. Beyond that, it's still pretty good. An auto-include? Probably more so in a deck with few "answer cards" in a field that has Control Slavers "number" so to speak.

Yea, I'm pretty well convinced on the petal.  Running those numbers alone did it.  Like you said, even beyond that, it does some very nice things.  Still having a little trouble wanting to run 10 Artifact Mana and 15 other blue sources, but maybe I'll come around eventually.  Right now it's 10 Artifact Mana, 14 Blue Lands, and 1 Library. 

Counterbalance:  Any thoughts on this card?  Helps the long matchup, very synergetic with top, and just all around annoying. 

Brian DeMars and I had a Counterbalance Slaver list(s) pre-restrictions. It was neat, but despite getting a T8 with it, it was underwhelming. The problem with it in Vintage is that it's a late game card, since you're not likely to get it really "online" before turn 3. Slaver isn't about shoring up it's late game, if you know what I mean. I like CB, but not here.

I'm going to play around with it a little more, but I think you're right.  As a mostly unrelated question, how many maindeck slots are you providing for disruption/metagame stuff?

Empty the Warrens:  I want this main deck.  Our deck gets very sad when it's up against a leyline or even a single tormod's crypt.  I think it's good to have another non-graveyard based win.  EtW seems like a very good choice.

I had some romancing with this in modern control decks. It's the absolute dog shit at times, which is a huge problem with it being a maindeck card. To me, it was always a card that planned on your primary game plan failing and helped it do so when you drew it, instead of bounce or a tutor.

Very nice.  I agree now it's not a maindeck card.  It does depend too much on your first game plan failing.  I think it's a good 1-of or 2-of in the sideboard though.  It helps a lot of matchups where they sideboard in the hate.

Fact or Fiction vs Gifts Ungiven:  Why do you like Gifts better?

Fact lets you see five cards. They could be really good or really bad. Gifts sets you up with cards to win every time.

Alright, total newbie question.  How are you using gifts?  I think the reason I don't like this card is that I'm terrible with it.  What are some common targets? 

[Webster]

Alright, total newbie question.  How are you using gifts?  I think the reason I don't like this card is that I'm terrible with it.  What are some common targets?

The common functions of gifts are:

-Entomb 2 artifacts.

-Set up a yawgmoth's will turn with something like tinker, time walk, mystical tutor, demonic tutor.

-Fetch counters in more desperate situations like REB, pyroblast, mana drain, force of will.


Gifts is easily the one card with the most complex decision tree in magic. There really isn't anything that it doesn't do.

[JoshuaD]

Alright, total newbie question.  How are you using gifts?  I think the reason I don't like this card is that I'm terrible with it.  What are some common targets?

The common functions of gifts are:

-Entomb 2 artifacts.

How exactly?  I'd have to choose something like {Thirst, Mindslaver, Triskelion, Pentavus} to get even one down there.  If I've got the active welder he just puts the Slaver and the Pentavus in my hand. 

Gifts is easily the one card with the most complex decision tree in magic. There really isn't anything that it doesn't do.

This is true; at different times Gifts can be a tutor, a draw engine, and a graveyard filler.  The problem I have with it is it doesn't perform any one of those function particularly well.  Your opponent is always going to give you the two cards that hurt the least.  So to have a big impact, you'll need to have 3 game-changing effects in your deck, and be willing to lose the best two of them to the graveyard, and still have the mana left to cast the 3rd one. 

I would like very much to be convinced here.  Like I said earlier, it must just be that I don't know how to play with it, but everytime I think about it, it seems Fact or Fiction is better.  I like being able to grab a specific card from the pile if I need it, and it's pretty rare that they'll stack it 4:1.  You usually get a land and the card you want.

[oneofchaos]

Alright, total newbie question.  How are you using gifts?  I think the reason I don't like this card is that I'm terrible with it.  What are some common targets?

The common functions of gifts are:

-Entomb 2 artifacts.

How exactly?  I'd have to choose something like {Thirst, Mindslaver, Triskelion, Pentavus} to get even one down there.  If I've got the active welder he just puts the Slaver and the Pentavus in my hand. 

Gifts is easily the one card with the most complex decision tree in magic. There really isn't anything that it doesn't do.

This is true; at different times Gifts can be a tutor, a draw engine, and a graveyard filler.  The problem I have with it is it doesn't perform any one of those function particularly well.  Your opponent is always going to give you the two cards that hurt the least.  So to have a big impact, you'll need to have 3 game-changing effects in your deck, and be willing to lose the best two of them to the graveyard, and still have the mana left to cast the 3rd one. 

I would like very much to be convinced here.  Like I said earlier, it must just be that I don't know how to play with it, but everytime I think about it, it seems Fact or Fiction is better.  I like being able to grab a specific card from the pile if I need it, and it's pretty rare that they'll stack it 4:1.  You usually get a land and the card you want.

Entombing with gifts-

You can search for 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4 cards with gifts because of how it is worded.  Hence you can "double entomb" as I did on mws the other day 2 robots.  Or if you have a thirst in hand you can go for 3 robots and get one to hand only to discard it later.  Entombing with gifts isn't the greatest usage of gifts but if it wins the game it wins the game.

[Moxlotus]

How exactly?  I'd have to choose something like {Thirst, Mindslaver, Triskelion, Pentavus} to get even one down there.  If I've got the active welder he just puts the Slaver and the Pentavus in my hand.  

Gifts says up to 2 cards.  So you find 2 cards.  Then the opponent must choose 2 cards to go to the grave.  So he picks those 2 cards to go to the grave.  Boom, double entomb.

So to have a big impact, you'll need to have 3 game-changing effects in your deck, and be willing to lose the best two of them to the graveyard, and still have the mana left to cast the 3rd one.

Crucible, Seat of Synod, Mindslaver, Academy/Lotus with an active Welder.  GG.  GG that turn if you have already found 1 of those cards at some point in the game (very likely).

Lotus/Academy/Time Walk/Tinker with a tutor to find will in hand.  GG.

Heck, even just FoF, DT, Thirst, Timewalk/Ancestral is a kick in the ass.  

That's opposed to Fof which half the time is something like fetchland, mox pearl, force of will, sundering titan, Sensei's Top.  Woot.

Fof might end the game.  A proper gifts WILL end the game.

it seems Fact or Fiction is better.  I like being able to grab a specific card from the pile if I need it, and it's pretty rare that they'll stack it 4:1.  You usually get a land and the card you want.

With gifts you get 2 broken cards in hand, and then another 2 broken cards in the yard so your Will is hella lethal.

[Webster]

Alright, total newbie question.  How are you using gifts?  I think the reason I don't like this card is that I'm terrible with it.  What are some common targets?

The common functions of gifts are:

-Entomb 2 artifacts.

How exactly?  I'd have to choose something like {Thirst, Mindslaver, Triskelion, Pentavus} to get even one down there.  If I've got the active welder he just puts the Slaver and the Pentavus in my hand.

Gifts Ungiven

"12/1/2004 You can choose less than four cards if you want, but your opponent will still put two of those cards into your graveyard."

When a spell or effects asks you to perform a search in non-public zones, the performer of the search can fail to find a card even if he or she does see it. So to answer your question, you would gifts for mindslaver and triskelavus.

Gifts is easily the one card with the most complex decision tree in magic. There really isn't anything that it doesn't do.

This is true; at different times Gifts can be a tutor, a draw engine, and a graveyard filler.  The problem I have with it is it doesn't perform any one of those function particularly well.  Your opponent is always going to give you the two cards that hurt the least.  So to have a big impact, you'll need to have 3 game-changing effects in your deck, and be willing to lose the best two of them to the graveyard, and still have the mana left to cast the 3rd one. 

I would like very much to be convinced here.  Like I said earlier, it must just be that I don't know how to play with it, but everytime I think about it, it seems Fact or Fiction is better.  I like being able to grab a specific card from the pile if I need it, and it's pretty rare that they'll stack it 4:1.  You usually get a land and the card you want.

For most given sitautions, there will be certain cards that your opponent cannot give you. The remaining cards that you are going to show him are going to be anything you want:

-You mention that the opponent will just give you what hurts him the least. However, since gifts is often central to strategies that abuse the graveyard, you're often getting to use all four cards.

-When draw spells are shown, it'll be something like thirst for knowledge, merchant scroll, mystical tutor, and something else like another draw spell if the deck is configured in such a fashion, mana drain, or an actual good card like tinker.

From experience, fact or fiction just isn't as good as gifts, especially in control slaver or any other deck that plays yawgmoth's will. If you still are unconvinced, then I'd have to say that you haven't really played enough/well enough with the card.

[Harlequin]

When a spell or effects asks you to perform a search in non-public zones, the performer of the search can fail to find a card even if he or she does see it. So to answer your question, you would gifts for mindslaver and triskelavus.

This is not technically true.  You may only fail searches in non-public zones that have a condition attached.  So for example you cannot 'fail' Intuition if you have more than 3 cards in your library because there is no condition on Intution (the same is true for Demonic Tutor or Extract). 

Gifts Ungiven has a very minor qualifier on it which says the cards must have different names.  So essentially when you Gifts for say - only Slaver and Jar out of a 50 card deck you are saying "I can't find any cards in my deck that arn't named Mindslaver or Memory Jar...."  Even though what you are implying is an illegal deck (50 cards consisting of only mindslavers and jars?) - the rules in this case don't care. 

[Webster]

When a spell or effects asks you to perform a search in non-public zones, the performer of the search can fail to find a card even if he or she does see it. So to answer your question, you would gifts for mindslaver and triskelavus.

This is not technically true.  You may only fail searches in non-public zones that have a condition attached.  So for example you cannot 'fail' Intuition if you have more than 3 cards in your library because there is no condition on Intution (the same is true for Demonic Tutor or Extract). 

Gifts Ungiven has a very minor qualifier on it which says the cards must have different names.  So essentially when you Gifts for say - only Slaver and Jar out of a 50 card deck you are saying "I can't find any cards in my deck that arn't named Mindslaver or Memory Jar...."  Even though what you are implying is an illegal deck (50 cards consisting of only mindslavers and jars?) - the rules in this case don't care. 

Comprehensive Rules

"Search
If you’re required to search a zone not revealed to all players for cards of a given quality, such as card type or color, you aren’t required to find some or all of those cards even if they’re present; however, if you do choose to find cards, you must reveal those cards to all players. Even if you don’t find any cards, you are still considered to have searched the zone.
     If you’re simply searching for a quantity of cards, such as “a card” or “three cards,” you must find that many cards (or as many as possible). These cards often aren’t revealed.
Example: If an effect causes you to search a player’s library for all duplicates of a particular card and remove them from the game, you may choose to leave some of them alone, but if an effect causes you to search your library for three cards and it contains at least three, you can’t choose less than three."

The preceding is what my post was conveying.

[Hi-Val]

Gifts is also good for grabbing four nice cards. I often toss stuff like Welder, Merch, Mystical and other stuff in there. It doesn't have to get the nuts cards, it just has to get four cards that you want to see anyway. Knowing how to force an opponent to give you certain cards is really strong. Ancestral is probably the best card to do this with, since people are really afraid of that card. I only VERY rarely put things like Tinker in my Gifts piles.

[Zherbus]

As a mostly unrelated question, how many maindeck slots are you providing for disruption/metagame stuff?

I've had varying results with running just the core eight and upwards of thirteen. I favor the core eight and a Crypt, leaving the rest of the slots open to face-wrecking stuff. That said, I think Slaver is what it is. Really good, if you can handle being the number one target in the format... especially with Long variants steadily on the rise.

[zeus-online]

I like playing with a few reb's main aswell. If there's any space left, that's what i use them for. This is probably a meta-thing though

I'm still not sure what the best board plan vs. storm is, we used to use sphere of resistance so i think thorn of amethyst might be fine...the idea is to go land, mox, sphere, and then have mana drain up on turn 2.

Other options include multiple duress/thoughtseize in the board, or arcane laboratory, i just think the lab is a bit too slow in slaver.

I'd love to hear what everyone else has been using.

/Zeus

[JoshuaD]

As a mostly unrelated question, how many maindeck slots are you providing for disruption/metagame stuff?

I've had varying results with running just the core eight and upwards of thirteen. I favor the core eight and a Crypt, leaving the rest of the slots open to face-wrecking stuff. That said, I think Slaver is what it is. Really good, if you can handle being the number one target in the format... especially with Long variants steadily on the rise.

What cards get cut as you increase the utility slots?