Laptop recommendations

[Grand Inquisitor]

So I'm finally taking the long overdue step of migrating from desktop to laptop.  The problem is, I can't get a straight story on what's good.  A number of my more tech-laden friends are big proponents of iMacs, but even they admit they're cultishly biased.  Some people say just do the basic Dell package, but they have a website devoted to how much they suck.  Online reviews vary widely and whiff of corporate postings.  What does TMD think?

My basic uses are simple:

-microsoft office suite
-web apps
-small amounts of music and video editing
-gaming, mostly MWS and old strategy games (XCom, Civilization, et al)
-music collection organization (I don't need capacity since all the storage is external, but I do need something with enough teeth to move around a terrabyte of mp3s)

Durability, useful life (from a technology standpoint), price (hopfully under 1k) are also considerations.

Anyone want to chime in?  Thanks.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Whatever you do, don't get a Dell.  Lenovo Thinkpads (formerly IBM) are pretty good quality.

Oh, and HD space on laptops is at a premium.  I doubt you'll be able to get more than 200 gigs at a reasonable price.  Terabyte sized hard drives are not an option.

[Harlequin]

If you want to run MWS I think Mac's are out in general. It might work fine with Bootcamp... but that adds more to the price.

I've had good success with dell laptops... but that was years ago.  The more recent laptops look alot less durrable.  If you go with Dell, I would advise for paying the extra $30 bucks or so to get an extended warrenty because they have a very good warrenty policy that will extend the life of the machine. (not the upgraded "help me, I have no F-ing Idea about computers" service, but just extending the basic warrenty).  I like this for laptops particularly because replacements tend to be pricey and difficult as compared to desktops.

Quick story. I had my dell laptop about a year or so, and the CD drive stopped working.  It was still under warenty so I gave them a call.  They sent a Fedex guy to my house to pick up the machine, and about a week later I got it back.  While they had it in shop, they ran some diagnostics and returned with: New CD drive, New Screen, New Keyboard, New touchpad, New Fans, and they dusted the interior.  Invoice: $0 Parts, $0 Labor, $0 Shipping. The thing ran like new.

I think the hardest thing about labtops is balancing video card quality and computer life.   Basically if you get the most pimp videocard and play world of warcraft on hi-graphics mode for 6 hours a day... you're looking at about a year tops before everything starts shutting down.  Also thickness/wieght matter alot interms of lifetime.  Basically heat = slow death.  Thick heavy laptops with mid-range video card that have good ventelation will last  10 times longer than sleak supercharged powerhouse.

My brother just got an Alienware desktop and it looks nice.  They are more of a gaming-focused company, so they tend to be pricey.  But if you -do- want a powerhouse machine with insane graphics cards, I would probably sugest going with that.  I haven't looked at thier laptops though.  No comment about thier warrenty pollicy, or lifetime either (as my brother has had the machine for about a month).

[Anusien]

Alienware is no longer the behemoth they used to be.  I would recommend against them, since they no longer have an edge up on the competition, just a price boost.

Why do you want a laptop?  How much travelling do you expect to do?  Do you need a good screen or are you going to use another screen?
I ask because they make laptops that have 17" screens that are basically desktops that you can occasionally take with you.  If you're highly mobile, you may want another solution.

[The Atog Lord]

I'm typing this from my macbook. I love it, with MWS being the one thing that it lacks. I know they just came out with WINE v1.0, so that might enable MWS -- I need to check that. The games bit does complicate things. Without that, I'd recommend either a macbook or a cheap Ubuntu box.

[Nefarias]

I'm far from an expert, but I have a few comments on some of the things mentioned.

Gaming's going to be a bit tough on a Mac. Some of the more popular games (WoW, I think Sims, a few others) are WinMac, but for the most part they aren't available in the big box stores. You can get a lot of games in Mac form from an Apple Store, which is usually a hassle, but I think there's one in Cambridge, so that shouldn't be too big of a problem for you (and of course, there's always the internet). There is the aforementioned problem with MWS though.

If you were to go with a PC, the biggest issue with gaming is usually the graphics card, as they tend to be integrated an not upgradable. If all you wanted to play were older games like Civ though, pretty much anything available nowadays should suffice. Even newer strategy games tend to be on the lower end of system requirements compared to say FPSs.

Video and music editing is definitely favorable on a Mac. Not only does OSX have decent software for the built in, if you wanted to install something more professional, nearly every high-end program is available for both, with Macs being more reliable and less susceptible.

Microsoft Office is available on both Macs and PCs, so there's no issue there.

As far as specific models or companies though, I can't really help you out there.

[BigChuck]

From my knowledge of what games you'd actually play Steve, pretty much anything you'd get that's new is going to be able to run it unless you go super bare minimum. I have a Thinkpad for work and I'm a fan of it, unsure about the price though.

[HuntedWumpus]

I love my macs, I would never go anywhere else.

Pros for mac:
Some of the best hardware out there, backed by strong in and out of store customer service should you need it.
It will run Microsoft office native on Mac OS.
You can get most software to compile native on OS X, however loading widows on the machine will give you the ability to swap between and run nearly anything.
Gaming on a mac is getting much better, I hardly ever swap to my Windows OS (a little advanced work with the OS and you can get a lot of things to load native in OS X)
Long useful life.

Cons:
Cost-- Macs are not the cheapest.
Moving to the platform, especially if you are attached to windows.

- - -

Whatever you do, don't get a Dell.  Lenovo Thinkpads (formerly IBM) are pretty good quality.

I agree completely with that.

Good luck, if you have any Mac specific questions feel free to PM, I know the OS and hardware fairly well.

[Grand Inquisitor]

HD space on laptops is at a premium

Right.  Yeah, with the music stuff the files will all be kept on external drives, but I need the USB connection, etc to handle moving around large amounts of files.

balancing video card quality and computer life

gaming

Gaming really isn't a big consideration.  While not a deal breaker, I would like to have access to MWS.  If I skimp on the video card, but get a decent processor, can I still expect a long product life?  I'm really more interested in having a quick, durable, long lasting machine.  Doesn't need lots of bells and whistles.

Why do you want a laptop?  How much travelling do you expect to do?

I've donated my PC to the common area, so the laptop will be my 'work' machine for when I'm writing, editing media, etc in my room.  Also, I plan to doing a decent amount of work at home and in cafes so that I'll be carrying it around with me.

Do you need a good screen or are you going to use another screen?

I may get a monitor to doc into at home, but I'd prefer not to.  I don't do any serious graphics work, and don't play graphic-intensive games, so I can probably get away with no frills there.

macbook. I love it

I have heard that the overall computing experience with macs is great.  Anyone try macs and still go back (for reasons besides not playing MWS, and other non-mac apps)?

[Harlequin]

HD space on laptops is at a premium

Gaming really isn't a big consideration.  While not a deal breaker, I would like to have access to MWS.  If I skimp on the video card, but get a decent processor, can I still expect a long product life?  I'm really more interested in having a quick, durable, long lasting machine.  Doesn't need lots of bells and whistles.

It depends on what you do for work.  But basically no, your processor shouldn't contribute much to heat.  Unless you run applications that use tons of cycles for extended periods of time (like if you work is to "brute force" crack encryption then yeah you'll have a problem).  But basically the CPU shoudln't be over 50% for more than a few seconds while it cranks out whatever you're asking of it.

Video cards on the other hand are basically running at full speed whenever you invoke anything that requires rendering.  So basically it's going full speed ahead while you play any True-rendered 3D game (like wow, racing games, or FPS).  For games with psudo-3D (like most RTS games, old games, or something like D2) video memory isn't really a concern.

From what it sounds like you should wiegh your need for MWS and Games against Media Editing.  Basically every game will work on a PC, and not ever game (MWS included) will work on Mac.  However, when it comes to media suits for a PC you have basically 2 options: Free-ware Garbage, or $X00+ suites.  With Mac's there are tons of Media options, including decent Free programs.  But basically you get what you pay for, however you can find a product for any price range from Free, $60, Low $100s, and all the way up to the Professional Suites. 

[oneofchaos]

Whatever you do, don't get a Dell.  Lenovo Thinkpads (formerly IBM) are pretty good quality.

Oh, and HD space on laptops is at a premium.  I doubt you'll be able to get more than 200 gigs at a reasonable price.  Terabyte sized hard drives are not an option.

Don't get dell, don't get dell, don't get dell.  I avoided Dell like the plague when shopping for a college computer.  Needless to say when I fixed work's computer when the Dell technician made it worse, I lost all my respect for dell (and alienware) right there.  Using a friend's thinkpad I like all the features (even the cool disc stopper when you drop it so it "braces" for impact).  Get a thinkpad

[Anusien]

Pros for mac:
...
It will run Microsoft office native on Mac OS.

Reading comprehension is at an all-time low in this thread.

In the name of full disclosure, I work for IBM.  If I wanted a laptop, I'd get either an HP or a Lenovo.  Every component in my HP has been replaced at least once, but at least they're good about doing it.  Plus, most people I know didn't have that much problems with theirs.  I love my Lenovo, but they're not big on desktop replacement type machines; they don't tend to make 17" screens.

[Godder]

I was at a friend's house one evening with a group of us gaming, and the friend's mother dropped by, and basically asked the question posed in the first post in this thread. One of our other friends who really knows his stuff said a few things about it, such as Dell Laptops aren't too bad (desktops, not sure), a recognised brand (eg HP, Compaq) is not a bad place to be for laptops (unlike desktops, where building your own is much cheaper) and that extended warranties are an essential add-on to any laptop you get.

[eightywpm]

All DELL hardware is proprietary.  You cannot take it to the local shop to get it replaced - its either them or nothing, and you'll find it needs to be repaired often.

This is the second DELL I have bought and the first one's power supply basically crapped out on me randomly.  It did not even want to start up for months then pulled a jesus and started working again, but it's been sidelined because the battery life sucks.

The most common problems with laptops has to do with the power charger - if the connection isnt secure or the power cable is heavy, it will push the holster for the power cable out of place.  All of the laptops I have used for a prolonged period (DELL and HP) have run into this problem.

I would recommend staying away from DELL and HP because they tend to break often.  Anything you get will do what you're asking of it, provided the video editing is not insane.  I'd also suggest you get an internal wireless card if you plan on using wireless - the external (usb) ones are TERRIBLE and the notebook slot cards tend to break, not to mention both make the laptop bigger while they are inside it.

[Roxas]

I would advise you to stay far, far away from any HP laptop. The model I bought (a dv9000 series laptop) is generally of shoddy construction and a defect that renders your machine unusable may arise in around a year's time, which HP will charge you >$300 to fix. It's roughly a year and a half old, and honestly I'm surprised it still manages to boot (and getting it to do even that is often an adventure). I refuse to send it in and pay such a ridiculous repair fee, and luckily I haven't been the victim of one of the widely-reported hinge breaks yet. The other models reportedly have similar issues.

I've heard good things about Toshiba laptops, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

[EnialisLiadon]

I would advise you to stay far, far away from any HP laptop. The model I bought (a dv9000 series laptop) is generally of shoddy construction and a defect that renders your machine unusable may arise in around a year's time, which HP will charge you >$300 to fix. It's roughly a year and a half old, and honestly I'm surprised it still manages to boot (and getting it to do even that is often an adventure). I refuse to send it in and pay such a ridiculous repair fee, and luckily I haven't been the victim of one of the widely-reported hinge breaks yet. The other models reportedly have similar issues.

I've heard good things about Toshiba laptops, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

I have a Toshiba Satellite, and I'm a pretty big fan.  220 gb hard drive, 2 gigs of ram, intel centrino duo or whatever, 15.4" screen, FINGERPRINT SCANNING SECURITY ZOMG.  I use it for home, school, gaming and LAN parties (I too play older games like Unreal GOTY, Starcraft, Shandalar, Chessmaster 9000, Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3), and for DM'ing my newly-forged D&D group (saves a lot of space, since I have campaign notes, all the core books, and can keep track of initiative and HP on a word document for encounters).

It was a little under $1000 on clearance--I got it a little over a year ago when I graduated from high school.

[nataz]

eveything minus the video/music editing shouted "net-top" - ish laptop to me. Old games, MS office, music, etc aren't exactly resource hogs. They tend to be cheap, portable, light, and have ssd drives. You can get an external drive for things like more storage space for music (or just network it to your desktop wireless while you are at home).

[Watanabe]

Mac with BootCamp is the best way I think so 

[Grand Inquisitor]

Oops, one more thing.  I may try to use GIS software on here, which I assume may change my needs for graphics?

[Dante]

Pros for mac:
...
It will run Microsoft office native on Mac OS.

Reading comprehension is at an all-time low in this thread.

In the name of full disclosure, I work for IBM.  If I wanted a laptop, I'd get either an HP or a Lenovo.  Every component in my HP has been replaced at least once, but at least they're good about doing it.  Plus, most people I know didn't have that much problems with theirs.  I love my Lenovo, but they're not big on desktop replacement type machines; they don't tend to make 17" screens.

If you're getting something that's not a MAC - I second this opinion above - our company (tech consulting company, everything we do is with laptops except the marketing department) has been using IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads since 1999 and they've been reliable and done what we need them to.  About 2 years ago we worked in some HPs (mine is a Compaq 6715b) and our internal support guy says they have been just as reliable as the Thinkpads (mine has been great).   We worked in some HPs since there was more bigger-screen (widescreen) choices.

Bill

[eightywpm]

Oops, one more thing.  I may try to use GIS software on here, which I assume may change my needs for graphics?

How funny... I work for ESRI.

Yet I have no idea what the system requirements are, or if you are even using our brand.

PM me if you're using ESRI software and want me to poke around for requirements for you, I need to know which software and what version you'll need me to look up for you.  But do it tonight, I have no TMD access at work.

[Grand Inquisitor]

if you're using ESRI software and want me to poke around for requirements for you

ArcGIS 9.1

everything we do is with laptops except the marketing department) has been using IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads

And the warranty & tech service has been satisfactory?

[Dante]

everything we do is with laptops except the marketing department) has been using IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads

And the warranty & tech service has been satisfactory?

Not sure about the warranty, we really haven't had any major issues except for a little wear n tear on the keyboard after a couple years (our consultants bang them around some).

[Imsomniac101]

I have an older Toshiba Satellite laptop, and it's been running strong for about 2  years now. It's taken quite a beating. I've dropped it a few times, and even banged up the ethernet port as well. Haven't had to service it at all.

Just one advice. If you plan to play any games which require relatively intense graphics rendering, then get a laptop that has a good graphics card, as you will not be able to change it.

<$1000, with extended warranty. 1.8 GHz, 1Gb ram, Intel Graphics Card, 60Gb Hdd. Nowadays, you can get approx twice the specs quoted at the same price.

[ill_Dawg]

Steve, I picked up a new Acer Travelmate here in the 'nam a few months back, and I'm really happy with it.  It's got core 2 duo, 2g ram, 160g hdd w/shock protection, card reader, camera, and a 12.1in screen. I can toss it in the back of my motorbike and take it anywhere.  It cost me about $800us, and it's had no problems (except for software issues I had to clear up after the retards at the store couldn't resist messing with it. Who installs a vista registration hack on  a machine with preloaded legal vista?)

Acer are cheap, they have plenty of goodies, and I've never had a problem.  Several of the other teachers here have acer laptops, mostly because if you shell out for something more expensive, odds are you'll get some cheap crap from china with a shiny badge glued to it.  Reasons for buying them notwithstanding, they've all been great, trouble-free machines. 

Whatever brand you choose, though, steer clear of intel graphics. Nvidia/ati will give you fewer headaches.  make sure to get the core2duo, not the core duo processor.  I love AMD, but for now intel makes the best laptop cpu in terms of performance/battery life. New ones are coming out in December if you have the time to wait and see. Stay away from the Atom proc, the battery life isn't worth the performance hit.

I've just been helping a friend here buy a new laptop, and my girlfriend is looking into a netbook, so I'm pretty up on these things atm. They've had me checking prices and availability in the US, UK, and Australia. Hit me up on Skype if you have any questions, I can probably help you out/make some suggestions.

-=ADAM=-

[oneofchaos]

Steve- I just got my thinkpad a few days ago and I love it.  The machine is perfect, the only flaw is that it came with Vista.  I'll just have to adapt to it tho.  The fingerprint scanner that I got was totally unnecessary so I defiantly spend more than I should have on the machine, but it's fairly powerful.  I can get you in contact with my friend who works for Lenovo (and can snag you a 30% discount or so). 

[Mantis]

I would advise you to stay far, far away from any HP laptop. The model I bought (a dv9000 series laptop) is generally of shoddy construction and a defect that renders your machine unusable may arise in around a year's time, which HP will charge you >$300 to fix. It's roughly a year and a half old, and honestly I'm surprised it still manages to boot (and getting it to do even that is often an adventure). I refuse to send it in and pay such a ridiculous repair fee, and luckily I haven't been the victim of one of the widely-reported hinge breaks yet. The other models reportedly have similar issues.

I've heard good things about Toshiba laptops, but I don't have any personal experience with them.

I have a Toshiba Satellite, and I'm a pretty big fan.  220 gb hard drive, 2 gigs of ram, intel centrino duo or whatever, 15.4" screen, FINGERPRINT SCANNING SECURITY ZOMG.  I use it for home, school, gaming and LAN parties (I too play older games like Unreal GOTY, Starcraft, Shandalar, Chessmaster 9000, Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3), and for DM'ing my newly-forged D&D group (saves a lot of space, since I have campaign notes, all the core books, and can keep track of initiative and HP on a word document for encounters).

It was a little under $1000 on clearance--I got it a little over a year ago when I graduated from high school.

Dude, WTF you play exactly my favorite games of all time, all of them! Unreal GOTY (Instagib CTF), Starcraft, Heroes 2 and 3 I played all those games so much. Those are probably my favorite games of all time (together with Super Smah Brothers, Monkey Island 2 and Diablo II).

Anyway, on a more related topic . All I can recommend is buy a laptop with a good and durable battery, as running out of power can be pretty frustrating, definately don't cut back in expenses on that. I've heard lots of people complain about their batteries. Oh, and don't ever buy an Acer, they are trash (not sure if that company is big in US tho). Also, a friend of mine has a Dell laptop and is actually very happy about the purchase.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Thanks to everyone; the feedback has helped tremendously.

Here's where I am:

1) Not a mac - I know they're beautifully engineered, but I can't rationalize the cost in the face of hardware and software inflexibilities.

2) XP - Vista's too much of a resource hog and evidently, I won't use the benefits, and it's very difficult to remove...if I were to try to put XP in its place. 

3) Specs - Here are the key things I'm looking for:

2+ GB RAM (or at least expandable room, but I'd rather have it done as bought)
core2duo processor
3+ hours battery life
internal wifi

things I'm not that interested in:

powerful video card
big screen
light weight


So now I'm beginning the search/price comparison phase.  Given that service packages I've seen generally run 25-33% of the model price, I'm still trying to stay in the $700-800 range.

Another thing, should I just grab a 2nd hand for $100-150 on Craigslist for now, and wait until deals around Christmas?

[Nefarias]

2) XP - Vista's too much of a resource hog and evidently, I won't use the benefits, and it's very difficult to remove...if I were to try to put XP in its place. 

Most any new machine you buy today is going to be preloaded with Vista  At the very least, I know that anything you buy at Best Buy is going to come like that, I can only imagine that's true of any major retail store.

[Dante]

2) XP - Vista's too much of a resource hog and evidently, I won't use the benefits, and it's very difficult to remove...if I were to try to put XP in its place. 

Most any new machine you buy today is going to be preloaded with Vista  At the very least, I know that anything you buy at Best Buy is going to come like that, I can only imagine that's true of any major retail store.

I'm not sure about retail, but for people who purchase through a distributor (like Ingram Micro, Tech Data, or Comstor), anything you can get with Vista you can have installed with XP instead (Microsoft bowed to the immense corporate pressure and extended the sale life of XP).  Originally it was a $50 "downgrade" option, but I'm pretty sure that's been lowered to $0 too.