the new Chalice black

[MonoE]

Ever since the printing of Chalice of the Void, Withered Wretch, and Dark Confidant, I have been thinking about mono black aggro/control. The deck stems from Suicide black, but Chalice gives it game against Sligh-type aggro and hoses the shit out of combo. Chalice Black swaps Suicide's amazing game against Keeper and some non-Keeper control, and good game against old-school combo, for the best game an aggro deck could hope for against new-school combo, a good game against most control, and decent games 2 and 3 against aggro(/control).

Here is Zherbus's 2002 build, which is the starting point for my own:

//(Disruption - 20)
4 Duress
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void

//(Threats - 12)
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Mishra's Factory

//(Broken - 3)
1 Demonic Consultation (Happy now?)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

//(Mana - 25)
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
12 Swamp

And here is the build I'm fiddling with now:

//DISRUPTION (16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Duress
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Unmask

//THREATS (14)
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Dark Confidant
4 Withered Wretch
2 Mishra's Factory

//SPOT REMOVAL (3)
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Contagion

//TUTOR (2)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation

//MANA (25)
12 Swamp
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
1 Strip Mine
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal

Discussion---

Disruption. With the advent of fetches, the madness mechanic, and the general graveyard-whoring that is the hallmark of nearly every tier 1 deck, I feel that Sinkhole and Hymn to Tourach are outdated disruption choices. I elect to go the discard route. The Unmasks have been phenomenal. Chalices (my own or others') can't touch them, and they even make Chaliced cards in my hand useful. Plus, they are free. They also strengthen the remaining Therapies by giving me more peeks at my opponent's hand. With 14 creatures, flashing back Therapy is always an option, but 4 in a deck that sometimes wants to name 1 with Chalice is foolish. These four slots correspond to Zherbus's 4 Hymns.

The Sinkholes are benched in favor of the drawing power of Confidant. The plan no longer has to be total annihilation of opponent's resources and a win on the back of a turn 2 or 3 Shade/Negator. While the best decks still outdraw me in a vacuum, Confidant goes a long way to evening up the amount of cards my opponent and I see during a single game.

Note also that once Sinkhole and Hymn are cut, my need for two black sources goes down significantly. In fact, this build has only 30 specific mana among all main deck spells (not counting the essentially free Contagion and Unmasks), as opposed to 35 for Zherbus's Chalice Black and even more for traditional Sui. This cuts down on the instances when my available sources restrict my play during the all-important first three turns.

Thorn of Amethyst might be a better choice than Sphere in some matchups, but not in the aggro/control matchups, which I think are key for this deck's viability in the new meta. I'm open to suggestions on this though.

Creatures. IMO Withered Wretch is the best card in this deck. He is a bomb in so many matchups, matchups that only got stronger after the June 20th bannings. He eats 'goyfs for breakfast, Ichorid for lunch, and Welder for dinner. In conjunction with Extirpate and Leylines coming in off the SB (see below),  completely blanking graveyard-based strategies becomes a legitimate possibility. Nezumi Graverobber is worse in every way except mana cost.

In terms of internal deck synergies Negator hasn't been this good since the days of Sarcomancy. Chalice and Sphere protect him from StP, Mogg Fanatic, Lightning Bolt, and cheapo bounce, while his drawback allows you to shuffle Chalice values when necessary.

I was never a very big fan of Nantuko Shade. He's just very average, and somewhat counterintuitive in a disruptive deck, in that he sometimes makes you choose between disruption and racing. By replacing him with 8 creatures with monster abilities (Confidant, Wretch) I trade the occasional 9/8 or 10/9 swing for acceptably consistent beats and a way better matchup with combo. In this deck, any extra mana goes to Wretch. Period.

The 2 Factories are an uncertain spot. I may replace them with more disruption or something else entirely.

Spot removal. Again, with the printing of Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf there is no end to the decks that are running at least some creatures. Contagion helps dispose of Chaliced cards and is kind of like Fire/Ice in that it can hit two x/1s at instant speed. Edicts are my maindeck answer for Tinker as well as very decent spot removal in conjunction with smart blocking and Contagion. Out of the board this plan is supplemented vs. aggro by 1 or 2 more Contagions and 1 or 2 more Edicts.

Tutor. Demonic Consultation is fabulous in this deck, and Demonic Tutor is pretty good as always. DT is great against jankier decks where tempo isn't as important but card selection is, and it can always be pitched to Unmask or Contagion when I don't have the mana or the time to go fishing. Yawgmoth's Will is bad with Chalice and Spheres. Necropotence is always an option but in light of the relatively control-light meta right now the slot is better served as something not so one-minded. Necro is a suboptimal play (even first turn) against combo and aggro, which make up the majority of the field. In those matchups I'm usually the control, so to speak.

Mana. As Zherbus said six years ago, having 8 Rituals (more or less) is key to establishing control early on. So far this manabase is really working. I am also considering Mana Crypt instead of Lotus Petal in light of the reduction of black mana that this deck needs as opposed to Zherbus's Chalice Black.

Converted Costs and Playability. There are a few things about the curve worth pointing out. Since both Chalice and Bob care about converted costs, it is productive to optimize the deck with regard to these restrictions. 26 cards (almost half) carry no converted mana cost (or 22 if you are casting Chalice for something other than zero). I am about evenly split between 1cc and 2cc cards (12 vs. 15) which I feel is an improvement over the old Sui lists which basically died to a Chalice at 2 (Welder MUD's favorite). I have 4 cards at 3cc, 2 at 4cc, and 1 and 5cc. On the other hand, the 3 cards over 3cc (2 Unmask, 1 Contagion) are actually free for the purposes of playing. I believe that one of this build's great strengths is its ability to abuse Chalice and Bob in conjunction with one another.


Sideboard---

Chalice Black needs to keep hating to keep winning. The following spots are all but certain:

4 Leyline of the Void (in for Edicts and Contagion vs. creatureless combo; stomps so many decks and I can hardcast it if needs be)
4 Extirpate (Simply unfair)
1 Contagion (Fish, MUD)

The other six spots are more or less up in the air. Pithing Needle is a strong contender as always, but it's 1cc is actually a drawback in this deck, and 4 Extirpate already limits how many 1cc spells I can comfortably fit in. Masticore is a beast, as always, but he is now kind of random here. Null Rod improves my game on the draw, when Chalice is not effective, but in general its functionality is all but superseded by Chalices (which stay in vs. pretty much anything) and Pithing Needles. Yixlid Jailer might get a few spots if there is room, it's always good to add to the gyard hate these days.

I have also discovered a somewhat janky tech vs. MUD (the worst matchup as always for monoblack): Emissary of Despair

Emissary of Despair        1BB

Flying

Whenever Emissary of Despair deals combat damage to a player, that player loses 1 life for each artifact he or she controls.

2/1

This would be perfect to side in for Negators in that matchup, and might be worth siding in for Wretch in matchups where Wretch is dead. Note that -4 Wretch, +4 Emissary makes Chalice at 2 a more realistic lockdown option. By no means does this card make the Stax/MUD matchups good, but I think it gives me as good a chance as I could hope for to roll the second 2 games or one of them if I managed to manascrew/race in game 1.


Cards not included:

Mesmeric Fiend (Always decent, but too Fishy. If I ran this I might as well add 4 Aether Vial and Blue or White and become Fish.)
Thoughtseize (In the hands of a reasonably informed player I feel that Therapy is always as good or better than Thoughtseize, and Unmask's card disadvantage matters less in this deck than in most others, while (for the same reason) its high manacost is actually a boon.)
Powder Keg (It eats my Chalices; and blowing it for 1 isn't that strong cause that's what Chalice should be set at. In the end it's a pretty good card that's good in some matchups and dead in others. Chalice takes care of most of its best functions.)
Dystopia (It's so good! But so dead in current meta!)

Matchups. I have not done extensive testing but what testing I have done, along with some common sense, suggests the following--- The strength of this deck is its ability to eat Tendrils alive on the play, and to give it game on the draw, while still remaining beefy and disruptive enough to race Drain-based control. Against aggro/control and straight aggro Chalice Black is not forced to choose between aggro and control strategies. Chalice and Sphere give it the ability to do both at once, simultaneously denying those precious 1-mana cards (Bolt, StP, 1cc creatures, Fish's Brainstorm, Vials) and making others more expensive, while beating down or at least holding its own on the board.

Splash. Right now I'm really happy with the deck as a mono black deck. But the question of a splash will inevitably arise. I think White is the best choice for the strategy as it stands, and a card-by-card analysis essentially breaks down like this---

---Jotun Grunt for Withered Wretch: decent gyard hate, bigger beats. Dissynergy with Leylines and Extirpates (and opponents will be packing Leylines of their own), whereas Wretch has positive synergy with these cards and is indifferent to opposing Leylines.
---StP instead of Edicts and Contagion: overall better removal, but 1cc hurts here and Contagion's card-disadvantage is actually an advantage in that Chaliced cards can be put to some use. But white is an undeniable improvement in the spot-removal department.
---Kataki (in for something): it's good in the abstract but I'm not sure what would come out for it. There's a point at which having a bunch of 2/x's makes me super-vulnerable to Fire/Ice and earthquake effects.
---Enhanced vulnerability to strip effects, which are going to be really big in the new Vintage, I think. Also, the creation of Stifle targets (fetches) in a deck with a minimum of good Stifle targets (only the 5 strip lands, Confidant, and Wretch).
---Artifact-hate in the board.


I'm just not sure it's worth it. The question essentially becomes-- is the extra beats (4/4) and the better Staxx matchup worth the loss of whatever I would need to take out (Wretch? Discard effects? Tutorage? Negators?). The point is, this deck is great at creating a situation where Negator's drawback doesn't matter (within reason). I'm not sure I can say the same for Grunt (could randomly die) or Kataki (1 toughness). Once again, these additions essentially push the deck toward Fish, which is a slower and weaker (in terms of creature power) deck than I want this to be. Chalice mandates speed, beef, and a well-distributed curve, three classic weaknesses of Fish.

The deck's main weaknesses are also perennial weaknesses of monoblack--

(1) Vulnerability to the topdeck, and, relatedly,

(2) Vulnerability to resolved anything.

I think the negative/positive engine of Chalice + Bob obviates the need for Chains, which are all but dead in the TMWA and MUD matchups (two of the problem matchups here), but I always keep it in the back of my mind as one possible solution.

Extirpate off the SB ameliorates #1 a bit, and to a lesser extent (basically, versus non-instants) Nezumi Shortfang.

#2 is really the best argument for a splash, but like I said it may not be worth the other sacrifices needed for that move. Honestly, most decks can't resolve much relevant stuff against Chalice Black before zero life.

Thoughts?

[Ancestralx]

What about playing Jailer instead of Mishra's factory? It would be a tutorable answer for dredge? How important are the mishras?

[MonoE]

What about playing Jailer instead of Mishra's factory? It would be a tutorable answer for dredge? How important are the mishras?

I have cut the Demonic Tut. recently because it is simply too slow in mono-black and cannot fetch anything that wins me the game pre-sideboard. I am reserving the possibility of running DT in my 'board, but this is uncertain.

Much as it pains me to say it, this deck does need the white splash. Jotun Grunt is too good in this deck not to be a 3-of, and StP and Kataki keep me in the game against the otherwise unwinnable matchups (Oath and MUD, respectively). Factories have been unimpressive, I was happy to have quality creatures (Grunts) to replace them, even if resorting to traditional casting cost works less well with Spheres and Chalices. I feel that Factories are better in more controllish builds, like Void, or in a more single-minded strategy, like Zherbus's 2002 list. With the printing of Jotun Grunt, Withered Wretch, Kataki, Yixlid Jailer, and even Aven Mindcensor, B/W hate has a real shot of hating hard on a lot of strategies at once, while having respectable 'legs' (4/4 in Grunt, 2/2 in Wretch, and 2/1 flying in Mindcensor) to complement Negators.

I have been admiring Schonkreuz's deck (also in this forum) and the Ponies deck linked within that thread. This deck is something like TMWA or Ponies but it replaces some of the creature answers with a suite of 8 targeted discard spells, Black's greatest asset, and it replaces some of those creatures' beatdown, and the extremely fast spirit guide mana necessary to execute those decks' gameplans, for staying power in Confidant. Plus it has a more stable manabase than all of those builds with the exception of monored TMWA (despite the anti-strip measure of Magus of the Moon in TMWA).

Here is my latest list:

//DISRUPTION
4x Chalice
4x Sphere

//DISCARD
4x Duress
2x Therapy
2x Unmask

//CREATURES
4x Confidant
4x Negator
4x Wretch
3x Grunt

//&C
1x StP
1x Edict
1x Contagion
1x Consult

//MANA
25x same as above

//SIDEBOARD
4x Leyline
3x Kataki
2x StP
2x Extirpate
4x metagame (currently: 1 Disenchant for Oath and 3 Aven Mindcensor when Wretch is less relevent)

I opt for Leyline over Jailer mainly because of the mana cost. I don't want to become too vulnerable at the 2cc spot either pre- or post-board. I will make decks maneuver their Leyline-hate through my discard gauntlet. By the time they accomplish this I hope to either have the mana to replay it (if it bounced) or dig far enough to find #2, and/or get Wretch active. Jailer is better than Wretch against Ichorid, but worse in every other matchup. The way I see it, only instant-speed, targeted removal can save me from Welding and from a giant Goyf.

If I expect a lot of Workshop-based aggro I may turn to Emissary of Despair. Part of the problem in this matchup is how easily their deck can cast a Chalice at 2, which cuts of all of my creatures except the one they would love me to play, Negator. Kataki just plays right into that weakness. Emissary, on the other hand, could be a bomb if he can be protected from Triskelion.

Random other thoughts--

(1) Null Rod. Seems like there should be room for it, at least in the SB, but it's not spectacular against any of the problem matchups. Chalice is better on the play against Moxen, and Sphere of Resistance is comparably good on the draw, but way closer to a 'lock piece' in a variety of other situations not involving artifacts.

(2) Mana Crypt for additional speed?

(3) Trinisphere? This is a legitimate direction for the deck. Subbing Glowriders for Wretches (pushing Wretches to SB) and maybe Thorn of Amethyst for some combination of Negators, Grunts, and discard would more or less result in The Swamps (& Plains) Win Again, for a storm-heavy meta. But boy would this deck roll over to Dredge.

(4) I am happy with the spread in my spot removal suite. Contagion is best under multiple Chalices and/or Spheres, and against Fish-type builds. StP is the most versatile and the most powerful, but has the least convenient cc; and Edict is very passable at the 2-mana slot, and is strengthened by the targeted quality of the other two (and 2 more swords from the boards).

[arctic79]

I see a problem with CotV. Set @0 no harm, @1 & 2 it hurts you just as bad as your opponent.
Why not run nullrod or pithing needle instead to give you answers?  Have you considered Imp's Mischief to highjack a spell?

[desolutionist]

Would it better to splash blue instead of white?  Blue gives you Ancestral, Walk, Hurkyl's, and Tinker instead of Jotun Grunt, Kataki, and StP.

[ScottHatch(EYSPG)]

I like this deck.  Honestly, I love the concept of mono-black in general, but don't have too much luck with it.  It's definatly playable depending on the meta-game though... BUT... In my honest opinion... This is the most broken format in any trading card game, in general.  Top deck is stupid... This might turn out to be your Biggest Downfall.  If anything, splash blue and find a way to control your opponents topdeck, effeciently, and you may have better luck.  I'll playtest this though, and then splash blue and see what I can come up with, if anything, and get back to you. 

[MonoE]

Chalice is mainly for zero. Zero against TPS, zero against Long, zero against Slaver, with options to go for one as well if time permits. By the time I'm dropping that second Chalice for 1, Rituals are spent and Duresses/Therapies have been used as well. The only danger is having no answer for DSC. That's why I run Edict.

As for Chalice at 2, this sort of deck will never be happy with it, but against, say, Oath, it would be nice to be able to drop it and not commit suicide thereby. I am thinking of swapping in Glowriders for Spheres, as this will only hurt the aggro matchup where Spheres weren't stellar to begin with. What do people think of this switch? It makes my disruption a bit slower, but gives me more oomph. I usually want to drop a Sphere effect after I have a board built up anyway.

Splashing blue instead of white makes me the Sullivan Solution. A very different deck. Blue gives me reactive answers; this would cease being a hate deck and would turn into thin-lipped aggro control with shit like Dimir Cutpurse. The same logic excludes an otherwise decent card like Imp's mischief: I just can't be bothered to leave mana open like that, it hurts my development at all stages of the game.

I have been thinking more about the SB. I don't know if I am going to run Leylines, it's overkill in the Ichorid matchup, and there are other cards that hose Ichorid in like manner, but are useful in other matchups (Extirpate, Pithing Needle, Faerie Macabre, to some extent Tormod's Crypt and Yixlid Jailer). I do like that Leyline is un-Chaliceable, though, and free. I just hate having to run 4 of them.

A preliminary SB rewrite:

3 Kataki
2 StP
2 Extirpate
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Disenchant
1 Contagion
4 [something]

Fish:
+2 StP
+2 Extirpate (Fish is a redundant deck and I won't be Chalicing at 1 in this m.u.)
+1 Disenchant
+1 Contagion (yeah buddy)
-4 Glowrider/Sphere
-1 Diabolic Edict
-1 [something]

Other aggro:
same but no Extirpates and leave Edicts and [something] in

Oath:
+1 Disenchant
+2 StP
-2 Wretch
-1 Contagion

TPS:
+1 Disenchant
-1 Contagion
(StP and Edict still good for DSC)

Slaver:
+1 Stp
+1 Disenchant
-1 Contagion
-1 [something]

Ichorid:
+2 Jailer
+2 StP
+2 Extirpate
+1 Contagion
-5 discard spells

Only 4 of these 7 Ichorid SB cards are dedicated hate, but combined with 4 Wretch, 3 Grunt, and 5 strip effects I feel good about this matchup without Leylines.

I am no master sideboarder though, like a lot of people it's my worst area and I'm just guessing here. What do people think?

Thanks for all your help,
Eric