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Author Topic: Tezzeret (Shards of Alarar card, quite interesting)  (Read 15310 times)
asi
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« on: September 03, 2008, 04:11:22 am »

A link to the card: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?s=624d94f84db817540670c9b39832c3a9&t=128271

He definitely has some very interesting abilities (though a truly horrible mana cost). What i like about him is that he can get you mana back right after you cast him: untap two moxen via the first ability or search for a Black Lotus via the second ability.But what I think makes the card really good is the third ability: being able to win in one swing is quite nice and shouldn't be too hard considering this makes every Mox(and even every artifact land) a 5/5 beater. So, when you drop him, it's a 1-turn-clock for the opponent (it can be stopped by burn and creatures, but both aren't heavily played currently).

This mana cost is extremely prohibitive; makes me think about a Workshopless artifact build (might post one try later); three colourless is easy via moxen/crypt/sol ring, but UU means a blue shell.

(The first ability is obviously the reason they had to preemptively restrict Time Vault, by the way ; )  Also, horrible artwork)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 04:15:57 am by asi » Logged
Neonico
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2008, 04:51:39 am »

5 manas in a drain deck, not that hard... especially for a one card combo....
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EnialisLiadon
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 07:45:57 am »

Looks like a nice one-card combo with Time Vault, among many other uses.

The mana cost sucks, but I could definately see him being used in a dedicated drain deck.
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asi
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 08:03:35 am »

I just noticed you can also use it as a 2-turn-combo clock rather than trying the aggro-plan, by tutoring Servant, then Grindstone.

Maybe a deck could start like this:

4 Tezzeret
4 Drain
1 Servant
1 Grindstone
1 Thran Foundry/Crypt/Chalice
maybe Trinket Mage
4 Force
some number of Thirst, Brainstorm, Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
1 DSC
1-2 Misdirection
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fact or Fiction

Dark Ritual ???
Time Vault?

Lotus
5 Moxen
Sol Ring
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
(Grim Monolith)
Tolarian Academy
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Island
1 Swamp

about 6 free slots; maybe Duress, maybe some hate (in artifact-form or Leylines), maybe Dark Rituals.

This would be a combo-approach; an aggro/Slaver build would probably be better, I don#t know.







« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 08:27:26 am by asi » Logged
desolutionist
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 08:33:59 am »

Quite interesting?  Quite good!  Drain into the win?  Reminds me of Gifts.

If not just thrown into Slaver, this card will make the best deck in Vintage.
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bluemage55
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 08:48:59 am »

The list certainly shouldn't start with 4 Tezzerets.  It's not a card you ever want to see in multiples, and most of the time it starts off dead anyhow.  If you're running it in a Painter shell, it probably makes more sense to have more Painters, and a single Tezzeret as a win condition you can tutor out.
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TimDeluxeIt
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 09:03:29 am »

People on StarCity have already come up with the idea of just winning with time vault after it is restored to its old functionality.

Tutor up time vault into play, pass turn, win?
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 09:13:10 am »

Tezzeret appears to have put Auriok Slavagers out of a job, between Mana Drain and Trinket Mage for Black Lotus it shouldn't be that difficult to cast Tezzeret, tutor for Time Vault, activate Time Vault and then tutor for Voltaic Key. Untapping artifacts and turning artifacts into 5/5s for alpha strike is just insurance vs Pithing Needle.

Pitching to FoW and dropping White ain't too bad either.
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TimDeluxeIt
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 09:25:26 am »

activate Time Vault and then tutor for Voltaic Key.

You don't even need voltaic key, he does that too.
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 09:41:27 am »

Its definately the most interesting card in the last time.
I will test it in Mindcensor's slot in bomberman and add another card.
As a 2off, I think it improves Bomberman's game plan, and its the most powerful finisher in a etabled drain.dec, because bomberman has enough artifacts because of Trinket-Mage toolbox.
I lalalala-like it!
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Neonico
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 09:45:12 am »

Strangely, SCG people also dismissed it because of its mana cost.... How silly....
I dont see it in a Painter shell but more in a Drain Tendrils/Gifts shell as a winning condition, perhaps 2 of them and one time vault. Burning wish giving a second way to win with the vault.

Also, it can be a kill on its own, stacking solomoxen, playing it, untaping once, and then, Big 5/5 alpha strike.... That's why i think it can be played as a 3of...
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 10:05:04 am »

activate Time Vault and then tutor for Voltaic Key.

You don't even need voltaic key, he does that too.

Wow, that's even better than I gave it credit for, it's like a Sorcery version of Probaso Gifts with less dead cards. It's not Gifts Ungiven, but then again it doesn't need to be if it's just 3UU=GG with out the graveyard.
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wette
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 10:08:22 am »

By the way, it's a great finisher for MonoU build, faster than tinker---> whatever (assuming some moxen/chalice into play), it's blue and tutors for chalice. If it finally works with vault may be a great inclusion.
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asi
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 11:28:37 am »

Concerning Time Vault: I hesitated, because I#m not sure which wording it will get. Probably a better "combo" than Painter/Servant in this deck.

Also, I strangely forgot to include Gifts. It should be, obviously.
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bluemage55
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 11:46:41 am »

If it works with Time Vault, I can see it being played as a 3 of in Bomberman, essentially replacing Salvagers.

In such a function, it seems superior to Salvagers, as it is blue and does not require Aether Spellbomb to combo off.  By removing white from the deck, Bomberman can integrate black for tutors, Yawg, and possibly Duress/Thoughtseize to protect the "combo".
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The Sovereign
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 01:58:54 pm »

Could Savor the Moment possibly find a home with a deck designed around Tezzeret?  The ability to use his abilities twice is quite strong.
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 02:23:58 pm »

I also posted this on SCG, but if iit looks like your opponent will win on the next turn, and therefore you don't have the time to get Time Vault and then use it, you can always just fetch up an endless stream of disruption via this guy while you rebuild the resources you used to get him into play. Get Trinisphere, then Chalice, then Tormod's Crypt, etc etc. I think it works great in a Painter shell because you can use it to throw endless disruption at them while you dig for one of your 4 Painters, and always have that 1 loyalty counter left on it to get Grindstone when you're ready to win.
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2008, 02:54:30 pm »

I am not going to say this card is bad, but you should compare it to what is already out there.  Think of this along side Sensei-Sensei.  It is almost impossbile to loose with a future sight resolved, yet the deck is not competitive. 

A card that forces you to tap out, and has no impact the turn it comes into play does not seem good enough. 

The biggest issue I have is if there is a null rod out, this card does nothing, not to mention if there are any creatures in play it will die before you can combo out. 

Saying the card is play it GG next turn is not how this works. 
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asi
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2008, 03:30:30 pm »

A card that forces you to tap out, and has no impact the turn it comes into play does not seem good enough. 

Why do you think it has no impact when it comes into play? That kind of suggests no artifact with converted mana cost less than five has an impact when played.
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Nehptis
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2008, 03:44:17 pm »

@ The Sovereign

I love the card Savor the Moment.  But, have yet to find an effective use for it.  I don't think Tezzeret combo is the place for it either.  Consider, you resolve Tezzert.  In most circumstances you will be tapped out of mana.  You then use his ability to fetch Time Vault.  Then pass the turn and if you / he survives you go off next turn.  If you instead had used his untap ability to untap Moxes to cast StM then you still need to spend a turn fetching the Time Vault.  But, if you can build up enough control/protection then perhaps it will work for you.

@ Wolf

The casting cost of Tez is high.  But, not has prohibitive as FS or the Magus with their 3 U.  Agreed Null Rod is a problem.  But, a lot of decks that "die" to Null Rod can win thru it.  The real problem as you alluded to is Tez staying in play for 1 turn.  ET / CoVapor are always an issue.  But, people win matches with DSC and the like, all the time.  The issue is that Tez can be killed.  99% of the time I think the Tez play is Tez-->Search for Time Vault, pass the turn.  This brings his counters down to 2.  Meaning, a single attack by a 2/x kills him or even a single Tendrils kills him.

WoTC real did a nice job in designing the Planeswalkers.  Allowing them to be attacked and damaged by spells really allows them to push the envelope with their abilities.  Tez is very close to being playable in Vintage.  IMO, a Painter Shell is the way to go.  The great thing about Tez is that he has a built in back-up win if the Time Vault plan fails for some reason.  Turning your artifacts into 5/5's is pretty decent.  Something like this list inspired from the TMD Open Painter's lists:

3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
4 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Academy Ruins
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Duress
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Echoing Truth
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Darksteel Colossus
4 Tezzert
1 Time Vault
1 Mana Vault

Not sure at the moment.  But the SB could be, remove Tezz and Vault transform into Painter.  However, I'd assume that you'll be facing Pithing Needles or Null Rods either way.

SB: 3 Painter
SB: 3 Grindstone
SB: 9 spots to fill
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EnialisLiadon
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2008, 04:07:00 pm »

You might as well throw a Voltaic Key in there--still allows you to take infinite turns with Vault if Tezzeret is killed or something.
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playkenny
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2008, 06:48:54 pm »

Why use this guy to find combos when this guy just wins by himself? You never miss land drops - artifact lands and moxen, and dont forget the garruk "untap two lands (sapphire and seat of synod)" for draw/permission, then, when you wanna win, swing with your mana? Its like garruk/crucible/Karn/rude awakening all in one!

As for the CC, you can drain into him (tapping out if you must), then untap two artifacts for mana leak or drain (if your lucky to have seat or something) or tutor for lotus or play timewalk (wins with a heavy mox draw) or go trinketmage mode... the list goes on! He's insane!
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2008, 07:06:27 pm »

The biggest issue I have is if there is a null rod out, this card does nothing, not to mention if there are any creatures in play it will die before you can combo out. 

I think he's actually good protection against Null Rod. The turn after he comes out, he makes all your otherwise useless Moxes into 5/5's. Sure, if there's no Null Rod he has a lot more options to go more nutty, but I think he gives decks like CS another gameplan against a resolved Null Rod if they have no way to remove it.
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« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2008, 01:36:20 am »

Interesting, this might be the best "new" win condition we've had in a long sad while!

Definetly getting a couple of these...and maybe a time vault.

/Zeus
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« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2008, 03:10:55 am »

wath do you thing about his head? I only know cards from Unhinged with pictures that go out of the "picture"-box?
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« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2008, 03:19:36 am »

This guy is really amazing! And I am quite happy that I kept one of my Time Vaults from the time I played Flame Vault in Leagcy.  Very Happy
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« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2008, 03:35:12 am »

have you guys not checked out the oracle text on time vault?

If Time Vault would become untapped, instead choose one - untap Time Vault and you skip your next turn; or Time Vault remains tapped.

if you try to untap it using tezzeret, you'll still have to skip the turn, or it does nothing
frankly, i think time vault is still best abused with transreliquat

but MAN, this goes into CS on day 1
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« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2008, 04:14:29 am »

have you guys not checked out the oracle text on time vault?

If Time Vault would become untapped, instead choose one - untap Time Vault and you skip your next turn; or Time Vault remains tapped.

if you try to untap it using tezzeret, you'll still have to skip the turn, or it does nothing
frankly, i think time vault is still best abused with transreliquat

but MAN, this goes into CS on day 1


They are changing time vault in a couple weeks
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« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2008, 04:30:56 am »

@Nephtis : Tendrils is loosing life, not dealing damages, so it can't be redirected to a planeswalker....

I think that everyone also forget that with 4 artefacts in play, this guy is autokill without passing the turn, especially when played in Mid/late game of a control mirror.
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« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2008, 04:38:27 am »

@Nephtis : Tendrils is loosing life, not dealing damages, so it can't be redirected to a planeswalker....

I think that everyone also forget that with 4 artefacts in play, this guy is autokill without passing the turn, especially when played in Mid/late game of a control mirror.

Well you do need to pass the turn you need to ramp him up to 5 loyalty first...
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