Preview Card: Relic of Progenitus

[Xyre]

Relic of Progenitus
1
Artifact   
Common
: Target player removes a card in his or her graveyard from the game.
1, Remove Relic of Progenitus from the game: Remove all graveyards from the game. Draw a card.

I really like this card. It can still be fetched by Trinket Mage, but it cycles as opposed to just sitting around. Sure, it costs a bit more mana, but in a format like Vintage with moxen, it will usually be usable on turn 1. Unlike Tormod's Crypt, Ichorid can't readily stop it with Chalice of the Void. The only problem is splash damage in losing your library, but that's a small price to pay to set Ichorid back a full turn and half their deck and draw a card.

Thoughts?

[The Atog Lord]

Wow. This is very constructed-worthy.

[desolutionist]

Wow. This is very constructed-worthy.

Playable, but where?  Tormod's Crypt is better.

[mike_bergeron]

seems like Ichorid is going to have to find even more tricks in the bag....I know crypt is better, but this makes chalice on zero worth a lot less.

[beder]

Are you sure crypt is better? According to me, this is not so evident.
In a deck that does not use its own graveyard as a resources, I would perhaps prefer this card to tormod's.

First, it can be seen as a countrip, and so could be put directly in the main without being too disadvantagous.
Then, it isn't blocked by chalice at 0.
Finally, it is not a "all in". For instance, one may remove the accumulated knowledge that has been put in the yard in resp to a second accumulated knowledge, without having to sacrifice its graveyard hate - and so keeping the capacity to draw a card if needed.

As a consequence, I can really imagine this card being played in main decks, replacing some main decks tormod's or even added in some decks that right now do not use tormod's cause sometimes useless. Then, when playing against yard dependant decks, tomod's will be added from side.

[Elfrago]

This is worse than Crypt, for a single reason: every game aganist Ichorid is a race. Tormod and this gain you a few turns, but it's still a race. And this does two thing that slow down your race:
1) It forces you to keep a mana untapped to activate.
2) It also removes your graveyard, and most decks in the fomat rely on it one way or another.

So, IHMO it's worse than crypt.

[madlucas]

Why not to play both?
Instead of 4 Leyline and 2 Tormod's /2 Pithing Needle now we can play with 3 Tormod's and 3 Relic.

It's better than Leyline for those who are playing Tfk, Bob and it's a castable card instead of a dead draw.

[beder]

This is worse than Crypt, for a single reason: every game aganist Ichorid is a race. Tormod and this gain you a few turns, but it's still a race. And this does two thing that slow down your race:
1) It forces you to keep a mana untapped to activate.
2) It also removes your graveyard, and most decks in the fomat rely on it one way or another.

So, IHMO it's worse than crypt.

Elfrago, my point of view is not that it is better than tormod's against ichorid. I agree with you, i prefer tormod's against ichorid.
My point of view is : this card can be put in main - cause reusable and cantrip - when tormod's is rarely directly included in main cause often pretty useless.
For instance, adding 2 of those in the main - of course in a deck that does not heavily relies on its graveyard - can really help you having a nice chance in game 1 against ichorid, but also against "will decks". Thanks to thoughtseize/duress effect, you should be able to quickly know if "Relic of Progenitus" has to be recycled or if it is a nive silver bullet.

Then of course, it does not prevent you from siding in tormods in game 2.

According to me, as for repeal that is included in some builds because : "if not usefull, i will be able to cycle it / If usefull, then I am very glad to have it in hand", I think Relic of Progenitus can become an auto include in many decks not relying strongly on yard and not playing null rod (well, I know this excludes lots of vintage viable decks )

For instance, in a painter deck, I think I would add one, to have a main deck yard manipulation card, to be able to remove Gaea in game 1 if played in main - oath - and to be able to cycle it if not needed (or to discard it to thirst if played). I really like that card

This card is made and has been designed for vintage. My bet : it will be used and used widely in vintage.

Then, just a thought : with the new unrestrictions and this new extension containing cards like Relic, an extension that looks like it was made for vintage - tepheret has been designed for a format with cheap, powerful and numerous artifact, a format that does not play direct damages, a format where some strategy relies on having no creatures, some other one on playing quick creatures... let say vintage - I feel like it is a clear message from wizard to the vintage community : "we hear you and care about you". Thanks a lot Mr Wizard.

[Neonico]

This card is better than crypt for only one reason in vintage : 
 - Ichorid plays chalice for 0 to protect from crypt.

This card will shine the most in a format defined by tarmogoyf, read legacy....

[Implacable]

This card is better than crypt for only one reason in vintage : 
 - Ichorid plays chalice for 0 to protect from crypt.

This card will shine the most in a format defined by tarmogoyf, read legacy....

Also, I'd like to point out that, oftentimes, Ichorid only drops a single Dredger into the yard off their first Bazaar.  Taking that with the tap ability is a huge tempo swing in and of itself, and then keeping the 'Crypt' on the board is a major advantage.

[Nefarias]

This card is made and has been designed for vintage.

Actually the first thing I thought of when I saw this card was that it was designed to shrink Tarmogoyfs.

[Skadrian]

This card is better than crypt for only one reason in vintage : 
 - Ichorid plays chalice for 0 to protect from crypt.

This card will shine the most in a format defined by tarmogoyf, read legacy....

Also, I'd like to point out that, oftentimes, Ichorid only drops a single Dredger into the yard off their first Bazaar.  Taking that with the tap ability is a huge tempo swing in and of itself, and then keeping the 'Crypt' on the board is a major advantage.

the problem with this is that the opponent can choose which card is removed, so he wont remove the dredger. It may still be some good, but this doesnt work

[zeus-online]

I think it's definetly playable and usefull, but it's not a "Zomg" this is Ze Big Filthy Nutz" type of card.

Lets try not to go all extirpate on it and just appreciate it for what it is.

/Zeus

[TopSecret]

It could see Bomberman play, since it allows you to draw your deck with the combo out,
which, if I'm interpreting the rules correctly, is something that Phyrexian Furnace could not do.

My bad.

[Anusien]

This is almost certainly playable in many decks as Tormod's Crypt backup to protect from Pithing Needle and because it cantrips.  It's not able to be reused (removes itself from the game) and it removes your cards which gets in the way of Will.  Fish would probably appreciate a Crypt that cantrips though.

[Harlequin]

It could see Bomberman play, since it allows you to draw your deck with the combo out,
which, if I'm interpreting the rules correctly, is something that Phyrexian Furnace could not do.

This doesn't work because the cost is to RFG it, not sac it.