Ultimate Combat Contest

[thorme]

From across the multiverse, they come.  Heroes, villians, monsters, and gods - they come.  64 of the strongest beings in the multiverse been summoned to compete in the ultimate single-elimination combat competition.  The only rule within the arena:  no outside influences (so a priest, for example, could not call upon their god within the arena).

Our competitors (in alphabetical order):

Aslan (lion from Narnia)
Allanon (warlock from Shannara)
The Balrog (demon from Lord of the Rings)
Batman (superhero)
Blade (vampire-hunter)
Boba Fett (bounty hunter from Star Wars)
Chrystalline Entity (world-destroyer from Star Trek)
Dark Phoenix (mutant)
Davy Jones (undead lord of those who die at sea)
Dracula (vampire)
Drizzt do'Urden (ranger from Forgotten Realms)
Dumbledor (wizard from Harry Potter)
Elminster (wizard from Forgotten Realms)
Emperor Palpatine (sith lord from Star Wars)
Fezzik (giant from Princess Bride)
Freddy Kruger (undead dream killer from Nightmare on Elm Street)
Gandalf the White (wizard from Lord of the Rings)
Gargamel (alchemist from the Smurfs)
Glenda (good witch from Wizard of Oz)
Godzilla (monster)
Gozer (demon-ghost from Ghostbusters)
Hellboy (demon turned good agent)
Humbaba (dragon from Gilgamesh)
The Incredible Hulk (mutant)
Jabba the Hutt (Hutt crime-boss from Star Wars)
The Jaberwocky (nightmare dragon from Wonderland)
Jadis, the White Witch (evil witch from Narnia)
Jagang (evil warlord from Sword of Truth series)
King Kong (giant gorilla)
Link (hero from Zelda games)
Lord Soth (death knight from Dragonlance)
Lord Voldemort (evil wizard from Harry Potter)
Magneto (mutant)
Merlin (wizard from King Arthur's time)
Mishra (planeswalker/artificer from Magic: The Gathering)
Mr Fantastic (mutant)
Mr Hyde (mutant)
Mumm-Ra (evil mummy from Thundercats)
Nefarious (dragon from Warcraft)
Neo (hero of the Matrix - grew powers even when outside the Matrix)
Onyxia (dragon from Warcraft)
Optimus Prime (transformer)
Paul Bunyan (legendary american logger)
Puff the Magic Dragon (dragon)
Q (michevious omnipotent - though arrogant and easy to outwit - being from Star Trek)
Ragnaros (Warcraft's lord of fire elementals)
Raistlin (wizard from Dragonlance)
Rand al'Thor (hero of Wheel of Time series)
Randall Flagg (Stephen King villian in The Stand and The Dark Tower series)
Riddick (Furyan fighter from Chronicles of Riddick)
Rogue (mutant)
Samantha Stevens (witch from Bewitched)
Sephiroth (villian of Final Fantasy)
Serpentor (villain of G.I. Joe)
Sethra Lavode (sorceress in Vlad Taltos novels)
The Simbul (wizardess from Forgotten Realms)
Skeletor (villian of He-Man)
Smaug (dragon from Lord of the Rings)
Thor (norse god)
Wicked Witch of the West (witch from Wizard of Oz)
Wonder Woman (super-heroine)
Yawgmoth (demon lord from Magic: the Gathering)
Yoda (jedi master from Star Wars)
Zeus (greek god)


I split the 64 competitors into 4 regions and gave them rankings based on my personal opinion of their strength. 
Here is the tournament bracket and pairings:

North
=====
1  Zeus
16 Link
         -------
8  Allanon
9  Rand al'Thor
               -------
5  Aslan
12 Blade
         -------
4  Elminster
13 Mr. Fantastic
                     -------
6  Humbaba
11 Jadis, the 
   White Witch
         -------
3  The Balrog
14 Fezzik
               -------
7  Emperor Palpatine
10 Hellboy
         -------
2  Mishra
15 Skeletor
 
 
East
====
1  Q
16 Mumm-Ra
         -------
8  Incredible Hulk
9  Godzilla
               -------
5  Gandalf the White
12 Boba Fett
         -------
4  Onyxia
13 Dracula
                     -------
6  Samantha Stevens
11 Davy Jones
         -------
3  Magneto
14 Sephiroth
               -------
7  The Jaberwocky
10 Jagang
         -------
2  Yawgmoth
15 Glenda
 
 
South
=====
1  Dark Phoenix
16 Freddy Kruger
         -------
8  Drizzt do'Urden
9  Optimus Prime
               -------
5  Smaug
12 Dumbledor
         -------
4  Raistlin
13 Riddick
                     -------
6  Merlin
11 Mr. Hyde
         -------
3  Nefarious
14 Paul Bunyan
               -------
7  Randall Flagg
10 Lord Voldemort
         -------
2  The Chrystaline 
   Entity
15 Batman
 
 
West
====
1  Ragnaros
16 Puff the 
   Magic Dragon
         -------
8  Gozer
9  King Kong
               -------
5  Rogue
12 Wonder Woman
         -------
4  Lord Soth
13 Jabba the Hutt
                     -------
6  Yoda
11 Wicked Witch 
   of the West
         -------
3  Sethra Lavode
14 Serpentor
               -------
7  The Simbul
10 Neo
         -------
2  Thor
15 Gargamel

Winner of North
vs
Winner of South

Winner of East
vs
Winner of West

Finals:  Winner of North/South vs Winner of East/West


Make your picks and defend your choices.

[Matt]

Q is kind of unfair.

Also Mr. Fantastic isn't a mutant.

[andrewpate]

Ditto on Q.

But even moreso, according to Lewis himself, Aslan is an alternate-reality version of Jesus Christ.  Literally, God, with all his absences and weaknesses (including, spoiler alert, his temporary death) just a part of his larger plan.  You're seriously giving the edge, in a fight, to a wimpy polytheistic god like Zeus... over Jesus?

[LotusHead]

5  Gandalf the White
12 Boba Fett

Gandalf pimpslapped the Balrog.
Boba Fett got killed by a creature that had no arms, no legs and was stuck in a hole in the ground.

Boba Fett = Fail!

Gandalf wins this easily.

[TracerBullet]

5  Gandalf the White
12 Boba Fett

Gandalf pimpslapped the Balrog.
Boba Fett got killed by a creature that had no arms, no legs and was stuck in a hole in the ground.

Boba Fett = Fail!

Gandalf wins this easily.

Gandalf the White didn't do shit to a Balrog, and if judging from the movies is anything, the coolest thing he can do is his Flashlight of Death.

[desolutionist]

Even though Optimus is really, really gay I can't see a giant robot losing to some vampire thing that uses daggers and leather shields.

Zeus vs. Link ? (God vs. some lucksack kid)  uhhh...

[Vegeta2711]

Even though Optimus is really, really gay I can't see a giant robot losing to some vampire thing that uses daggers and leather shields.

Zeus vs. Link ? (God vs. some lucksack kid)  uhhh...

I would've agreed with this a while ago, but ever since the GOW series came out, it seems like Zeus just is a big whiny bitch who gets pimp-slapped around by anyone angry with an ancient weapon. Kratos didn't even have the Triforce and he beat the shit out of the old man!

[Matt]

5  Gandalf the White
12 Boba Fett

Gandalf pimpslapped the Balrog.
Boba Fett got killed by a creature that had no arms, no legs and was stuck in a hole in the ground.

Boba Fett = Fail!

Gandalf wins this easily.

He also got shot by a blind man.

[thorme]

Ditto on Q.

But even moreso, according to Lewis himself, Aslan is an alternate-reality version of Jesus Christ.  Literally, God, with all his absences and weaknesses (including, spoiler alert, his temporary death) just a part of his larger plan.  You're seriously giving the edge, in a fight, to a wimpy polytheistic god like Zeus... over Jesus?

So we have our first upset pick!  I take it that you're choosing Aslan over Elminster for the mini-upset in Round 2 followed by upseting Zeus in Round 3!

Also, you could make a case that Randall Flagg is Satan (along the same lines).


I do agree that Q seems like a clear pick, but I think there is a very real possibility that he only claims to be omnipotent, and in any case, he got regularly outwitted by Picard, so it's hard to see him as unbeatable.

I have to admit though, my nerd skills are not up to par, so far I've been corrected on Mr Fantastic not being a mutant and on Mishra not technically being a planeswalker.


Edit:  On Zeus versus Link, that's what happens in Round 1 of a tourney when the #1 ranked gets paired against the #16.  I do think most of the #8 versus #9 games would be pretty close.

[thorme]

Not MTG related, so mods feel free to remove, but wanted to let people know about this thread:

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36711

If you want to get really nerdy, but have some interesting thought-exercises.

[Matt]

Q only got outwitted by Picard because Q decided to make it a battle of wits. His raw power is without question off the charts, but he wasn't interested in simply blowing the Enterprise up. What he wanted was not conquest but admiration, adoration, and respect (and he could have even forced that, but he wanted to get it "naturally").

The only reason you can beat Q is because he's set up the game to allow you to do so, because otherwise it'd be boring.

[Yare]

The only reason you can beat Q is because he's set up the game to allow you to do so, because otherwise it'd be boring.

Sounds applicable to this contest to me.

[Matt]

That's fine, I just want an asterisk next to the name of anyone who beats him.

[Sextiger]

Jabberwocky all the way unless he runs into the D&D characters who have access to some vorpal blades. 

[LordHomerCat]

Can I take 40 midgets to win it all?

[CopperLeaf]

6  Yoda
11 Wicked Witch
   of the West

Is there a glass of water in the Arena?

[Godot]

Wow, Batman is a 15 seed?  Dude beats Superman and only merits a 15 seed?  Preposterous.  Gargamel is a 15 seed and he couldnt even beat a bunch of 3 inch tall blue dudes(and chick).

7  Emperor Palpatine
10 Hellboy
Im taking the underdog here.  Hellboy takes it down.

[zeus-online]

Well Zeus wins, obviously.

/Zeus

[Pomaxx]

Gargamel ftw!

[Matt]

A PM from Norm4Eva:

I Pm'ed the OP but I'll send to you as well, since I can't actually post in Humor;

Q pretty much lost exactly one so-called battle of wits to the crew of the Enterprise - beyond that he never actually challenges the crew, just sets up a scenario in which he illustrates his point.  The episodes Qpid and Q Who pretty much exemplify this entirely; Picard makes a statement which Q blatantly scoffs at and proves him wrong, whether it's "Yeah we're really really ready to be in space" or "I can TOTALLY have a girlfriend and be the captain".  His 'challenges' are mostly illustrative and in the end, most of the time, Picard et al are forced to comply to Q's POV.
The only time the crew actually sticks it to Q is the episode Hide and Q, where Riker is given a Q's phenomenal cosmic powah and he's all like "yeah kthnxNO."  But this episode is pre-Beard, and thus its eligibility in TNG canon is.... sketchy at best Wink
I guess the only reason I'm pointing any of this out is because Q virtually never sets himself up to be the primary antagonist, nor does he ever create a situation which isn't almost entirely whisked away with a snap of the fingers.  Hide and Q notwithstanding, Q pretty much never loses.  So all this description of him losing these alleged 'battles of wits' to cast and crew of the show is highly inaccurate since his usual goal is not to best the captain, just to prove him wrong, which he's rather adept at.

Incidentally, is there any reason this is in Humor AND Community? Would you mind if I just merged them both into the Community thread?

[thorme]

Incidentally, is there any reason this is in Humor AND Community? Would you mind if I just merged them both into the Community thread?

Works for me - whatever is best.  I wasn't sure that non-magic stuff was kosher in community, so I put the main post here, but merge away!

[thorme]

I Pm'ed the OP but I'll send to you as well, since I can't actually post in Humor;

Q pretty much lost exactly one so-called battle of wits to the crew of the Enterprise - beyond that he never actually challenges the crew, just sets up a scenario in which he illustrates his point.  The episodes Qpid and Q Who pretty much exemplify this entirely; Picard makes a statement which Q blatantly scoffs at and proves him wrong, whether it's "Yeah we're really really ready to be in space" or "I can TOTALLY have a girlfriend and be the captain".  His 'challenges' are mostly illustrative and in the end, most of the time, Picard et al are forced to comply to Q's POV.
The only time the crew actually sticks it to Q is the episode Hide and Q, where Riker is given a Q's phenomenal cosmic powah and he's all like "yeah kthnxNO."  But this episode is pre-Beard, and thus its eligibility in TNG canon is.... sketchy at best Wink
I guess the only reason I'm pointing any of this out is because Q virtually never sets himself up to be the primary antagonist, nor does he ever create a situation which isn't almost entirely whisked away with a snap of the fingers.  Hide and Q notwithstanding, Q pretty much never loses.  So all this description of him losing these alleged 'battles of wits' to cast and crew of the show is highly inaccurate since his usual goal is not to best the captain, just to prove him wrong, which he's rather adept at.

Well I don't know if I'm treading on some sort of official "cannon" here, but in the book Q-Squared, Q has to come ask Picard for help.  In another book (I'm blanking on the name right now) that tells a bit of Q's history, he gets schooled by some other rogue cosmic entities.  To say nothing of the fact that the Continuum punishes him at will. 

He's clearly a powerful dude, but despite his claims, I think there are several good counter-examples that disprove his being some sort of all-powerful God-being.

[andrewpate]

Also, not too big of a deal, but the actual creature is called the Jabberwock.

[Matt]

Topics merged.

Even assuming Q Squared is canon, he still only needed help when facing another member of the Q Continuum. It's not clear that anything less than another Q can actually stop him from doing whatever he wants.

[thorme]

Even assuming Q Squared is canon, he still only needed help when facing another member of the Q Continuum. It's not clear that anything less than another Q can actually stop him from doing whatever he wants.

Agreed - we know he can be stopped (in at least 1 case), but we aren't clear on the limits of his power.

Any thoughts on the 8 versus 9 matchups?

[andrewpate]

Any thoughts on the 8 versus 9 matchups?

To win:  Hulk, Optimus, and Gozer.  I have not read Shannara, so I can't speak to the last matchup.

[Nefarias]

2  Mishra
15 Skeletor

5  Smaug
12 Dumbledor

3  Nefarious
14 Paul Bunyan

I'll chime in on these three. First, as thorme already mentioned, Mishra is not, in fact a Planeswalker, and does not possess the limited immortality that they possess. Furthermore, he didn't use Magic; all of his power derived from artifice. His real power came from the artifact creatures he created, namely dragon engines. Presumably, any of his creatures would be disallowed in the competition though due to the "no outside influences" rule. So he really only has a couple of things going for him: his superior intellect, and the fact that he artificially enhanced his own body, but not to the point of being anything unstoppably amazing. That said, he may still just beat Skeletor, because he's pretty lame, but then he would basically stand no chance against the winner of the Hellboy/Palpatine fight.

Next up, I'm pretty sure Dumbledore can beat Smaug, though that may just be the Harry Potter dork in me speaking. I mean, spells can hit with pinpoint precision, and so I'm fairly certain Dumbledore would be able to aim something directly into his missing scale. And as far as surviving long enough to pull that off is concerned, Dumbledore's specialty is in defensive wards and such.

And that last one, I've barely played any Warcraft game, but I'm pretty sure I'm obligated to pick Nefarious to go all the way, no?

[Norm4eva]

Well, to sum up both my argument AND my pick -

As described by the primary canon of Trek, within the bounds of TNG Q can only truly be contended with by another member of the Q continuum.  He snaps his fingers and his will is manifest.  Even Neo, a Jesus-Buddha-Gellar savior of man who is claimed to have been able to "remake [reality] as he saw fit" only exhibits the capacity to bend rules within the Matrix, never fully ignoring any of them save gravity.  And then, if we're binding ourselves to canon, Neo can only exert his will on information and items directly connected to the Source.  While this stipulation ultimately makes the tournament very boring - or at least very brief and unfair for Neo - it's a slippery slope when one starts parsing canon from non, imposing certain limits in the nature of good-spirited immortal combat between ridiculously powerful fictional characters.
Seeing as how Q is described within his canon as omnipotent, and stands out to me at the most omnipotent of any of the close contenders on the list (even the Greek and Norse gods on the list have limited jurisdictions), I say Q must take it all the way.

[emidln]

5  Gandalf the White
12 Boba Fett

Gandalf pimpslapped the Balrog.
Boba Fett got killed by a creature that had no arms, no legs and was stuck in a hole in the ground.

Boba Fett = Fail!

Boba Fett lives through that. Interestingly enough, Boba Fett trains one of Han Solo's children to kill the other one who wound up as a more powerful Sith Lord than Palpatine or Vader. See this page (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Boba_Fett) for more information on Boba Fett.

[Matt]

Just to play devil's advocate here (and no that does not mean I'm betting on Hellboy)...

If Q simply wanted the other contestants dead, or if he simply wanted the trophy, there would BE no contest; he could simply take whatever he wanted. The fact that a contest is even being held can be taken as evidence that Q, on some level and for some reason, wants to play along. Therefore, the existence of a contest implies that he is artificially limiting his powers and/or options (e.g. self-imposing a moral code) for his own purposes.

The exact extent and nature of that limitation is ENTIRELY open to speculation, however, so have fun with that.