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Author Topic: 1st for a Pearl @ ELD's Mox XX with Slaver  (Read 6217 times)
Rock Lee
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« on: October 26, 2008, 10:03:17 am »

22 people showed up to ELD's XX. Although the showing was less than we were hoping for to secure a Mox Sapphire, the competition was still solid and I enjoyed many interactive and enjoyable matches.

After tinkering with Shards cards in Alara and begrudgingly accepting that I both love and hate Relic of Progenitus, here is the Slaver list I settled on.

2 Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
3 Goblin Welder
1 Triskelavus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
3 Master of Etherium
4 Courier Capsule
4 Thirst for knowledge
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker

SB:
3 Extirpate
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ingot Chewer
3 Viashino Heretic
3 Red Elemental Blast

Courier Capsule:
I greatly prefer the raw push-power of Capsule over other card advantage edging cards such as Merchant Scroll-Fact or Fiction, Deep Analysis, or Sensei's Divining Top. Capsule plays well with the entire deck at all times of the game state. Every opponent asked me how capsule was for me, and it was relevant in every match. Capsule allows you to keep 1 blue source hands confidently, allows you to use your 2 open mana eot when a drain didn't hit relevant sorcery-speed-spells, pumps Master of Etherium that extra bit, and ultimately allows you to out card advantage nearly any deck via welder recursion.

Master of Etherium:
The Master is also great in all game states. I'll admit I often pitched him to Thirst for Knowledge, only to weld him in. Often he was the least-potent blue card in my hand for a Force of Will / Misdirection and while this might be a poor Leviathan-excuse, its multi-function early on was used several times. In the same light, I won two games on turn 4 on the back of two Master of Etheriums and a hand of artifacts. He doesn't become supremely enormous, but he can easily fight a Tarmogoyf when the time arises. Additionally, his synergy with Triskelavus is enormous.

Lack of - Merchant Scroll - Ponder:
This deck plays mostly in the End of Turn step. Winning small victories with Capsules, Drains, and your multitudinous other instants.

I didn't take notes, so here's a from-memory brief recount of my matches of the day

Round 1: Mike Bergeron - Red Tape Dispenser Extraordinaire

Game 1
I know Mike usually plays 5 color stax, and I keep a hand of Lotus, Emerald, Tormod's Crypt, Tinker, Welder, Volcanic Island, Force of Will. Respectable against anything graveyard-ish, and will likely get there. He wins the roll and dumps an ichorid, stinkweed imp, dread return into the grave and passes. Oh dear, this is not going to be fair in all the wrong ways. I rip Thirst for my draw, and that basically seals the deal. After getting Triskelavus in play, I crypt Mike 3 times while noting he is played Colored Ichorid and eventually I leave Mike with 3 cards in library. and save-bazaar, no permanents. boo.

In: Extirpates, Thorns, Ingot Chewers      Out: Capsulex2, Drainx1, Sundering Titan, Master of Etheriumx3, Mana Crypt, Thirst for Knowledge

Game 2
Mike Mulls. He hesitates on his 6 hand, but keeps it anyway. My hand has nothing hugely explosive nor a Force of Will, but an ingot chewer and an extirpate. He plays Black lotus (bad for me), pithing needle naming Tormod's Crypt, then a 2nd needle naming Goblin Welder. He burns for 1 (oh thank the maker). he has to play draw-go for a few turns while I find a welder and a T-crypt, enabled by Ingot Chewer. The bridge removal and recurring crypts seals the deal.

Round 2: Rich Shay - i.e. Nemesis
My record is shaky against Rich, mostly because I've been playing decks-in-testing or crazy decks. Despite facing down the behemoth that is Rich Shay, I am confident that my deck can beat painter, which Rich is piloting.

Game 1
ends early with Rich having a saucy hand, but needing a 2nd and third mana source via a brainstorm. He finds Tolarian academy without any moxen. Sundering titan backed by a a drain ends his fun on turn 3, with him still drawing a guaranteed non-mana-source from his brainstorm.

Out: Card disadvantage  In: Rebx3, 1 Viashino Heretic

Game 2
Rich Mulls. He thinks a bit, then keeps. I keep. he says go. what? No land drop, that means his hand is supremely saucy. I prepare for a counter-war onslaught with a capsule, then a thirst. he gets a land on his 2nd draw, and throws out Ancestral Recall, I have two counters, but so does he. Unfortunately the recall resolution isn't enough to turn the already large card advantage disparity I have against him, and a master of etherium soon finishes him off.

huzzah, Vengeance is mine.

Round 3: Craig Dupree
I've been impressed with Craig's progress over the past few years. He started out playing the Vintage equivalent of Red Deck Wins and moved upto GAT and competitive decks. Granted, he's been playing Izzit-combo recently, so go figure.

Game 1
I have two Masters of Etherium in play putting pressure on him. he drains a force going into a Will turn. He goes to play a land for turn and I remind him that he already played a land, as I only had three land drops. He thinks for a bit, calculates his will mana for a 5-6 spell warrens in the grave, and figures he can't pull out of lethal Masters of Etherium next turn. We go to sideboard for game 2. mid-sideboarding, he goes through the spells played and the land-drops made and we both realize it was definetely his 4th turn, not his 3rd turn, that we though, so he could have made the land drop necessary to warrens for 6. I feel horrible, realizing that my mistake could be construed as cheating, but since we've scooped up our cards to sideboard it is too late to reverse any game states. I comment that I did have an echoing truth in hand, so it still would've been game, but regardless I feel horrible.

In: Extirpate (saw Accumulated Knowledge game 1), Rebs      Out: Vamp, Mystical, Mana Crypt, Misdirectionx2, Triskelavus

Game 2
I get a turn 3 extirpate on AK, and reb any remaining draw. This game is very mechanical, and unfortunately slowly painful for Craig as my deck gives me tons of draw and disruption, but few wins until much later.

Round 4: Dan Yarrrington playing Dan Yarrington.dec ie I Hate Blue
I'm paired down, so I can't double-draw in. But where's the fun in that anyway!?
Despite efficient beats and null rods being brutally effective against Slaver, I have confidence in my Blue-goyf - Master of Etherium.

Game 1
Ends quickly on the back of Tinker -> Sundering titan, hitting 2 opposing lands. So much for plan B.

In: Ingot Chewers, Viashino Heretics   Out: Misdirectionx2 (as much as I love misdirecting Rebs & Stp's, this has to go), Courier Capsulex2 (Null rod boo!), Mana crypt, tormod's Crypt

Game 2
Is over 35 minutes long and a grueling match of exchanged removal, disruption, and dudes. At 5 life, I eventually put him on the defensive with hardcast ingot chewers, and pull out. After the match his graveyard had 3 Swords to Plowshares, 3 Tin Street Hooligans, 3 Rebs, and countless creatures. Quite the fun match, if not stressful.

My teammate after the match informs me of a risky play I could've done that I missed even contemplating, and a blatent misplay that would've brought game 2 to a grinding halt in my favor. Oh teammates... so good for twisting daggers.

Round 5 I ID with Legacy Man playing Stifle-Naught. huzzah.

Top 8

Playing against Godsire-Belcher Man
My opponent was a newer player, used to casual rules, and therefore had some problems with me not letting him take misplays back. Interesting and even amusing for sure, but I was resolute in my tournament behavior.

Game 1
he casts land grant and goes diving for a land, at which point I say "woah woah woah" and have him reveal his hand, which is completely reliant on black mana. I force the Land Grant, and he is perturbed. I lay down some lands & draw while he plays draw-go. Drain on Wheel, into Time walk and Will is good. Master of Etherium goes in for the kill.

In: Extirpates, Ingot chewers, Thorns          Out: Misdirectionx2, Thirstx1, Courier Capsulex3, Master of Etheriumx3

Game 2
He has a turn 1 Timetwister. His twist gives him enough to hardcast a blecher and belch me, with no lands tutored up yet. flipping.... 4 cards and then Bayou. woot! I evoke my twistered Ingot Chewer, and followup with extirpate on Belcher. I just bought myself many turns. I also see Tendrils is his only out left. Our game progresses with me drawing nothing else but counters, while he draws bombs or card advantage. I pull out a Tinker, nuking his Bayou with Titan, hoping to finish this up quickly, only to have him rip Balance with no cards, lands, or creatures. yarr.. Draw-go ensues with him having moxen and me having nothing. I get a land, with vamp in hand. He vamps. I'm at 14, meaning a mini-tendrils is death, but Yawgmoth's Will is certain death. I Vamp for Recall instead of Tormod's Crypt, knowing crypt alone won't save me, and I only have 15 cards left in my library, so the likelihood of drawing crypt or a force is high. I recall and draw nadda. As I anticipated, Will finishes me off.

I gave up my first game to Godsire Belcher. how embarrassing. Onward and upward!

no SB changes

Game 3
I lead with Turn 1 Thorn, backed up with a turn 2 Drain. ESG enables his Land grant, into a shattering sprees targeting thorn once and my sapphire once. I drain the original spell targeting the thorn, which sets him back many turns. I get enough turns to set up for a large will and plenty of counters. Sundering Titan finishes it off.

Semifinals: Rich Shay Rematch
My brain would explode to recant these three games exactly. They were, as usual with Rich Shay, enjoyable and intense games of magic. Unlike our non-interactive games in the swiss, these are played tightly.

Game 1
has me churning out courier capsules and thirsts. I am able to counter his card advantage while chugging out my own. Eventually Master of Etherium gets in there.

Same SB plan as the swiss

Game 2
I have an early library, but am restricted from forcing while he thirsts his brains out. Relic of Progenitus turns my welder into a mons goblin raider, and the clincher is a sower of temptation on my viashino heretic. what a beating.

Game 3
I have turn 1 library. But this time I draw ridiculously well with library and he doesn't have thirsts in droves. Much Face-palming ensues, and eventually Master of Etherium goes the distance.

Finals - Legacy Man (Sorry I don't remember your name!) playing Stifle-Naught
Game 1
Is one of those sad moments in Vintage. With a mana curve of two, my opponent never got more than his original island for mana after 6-7 turns of drawing. I churned out capsules and thirsts galore, with the occasional force being played by my opponent, but the momentum of my deck couldn't be stopped.

In: Ingot chewers, Viashino heretics   Out: Tormod's Crypt, Master of etheriumx3, Mana Crypt, Courier Capsulex1

Game 2
Was the unfortunate opposite of Game 1. I drain both his turn 2 Dark Confidant and his Turn 3 Dark Confidant. After this he draws 6 lands. He has needle on Welder and Viashino Heretic, but a ingot chewer on the welder needle allows a quick conclusion via Welded Sundering Titan.

Huzzah! Pearl!

I used every card out of my sideboard, and every card on my main was amazing! While I could see metagame changes, the deck feels solid as is. I hope you enjoyed my recap, and feel free to comment.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 10:36:28 am by Rock Lee » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 11:24:01 am »

Jer, great report. Congratulations on your victory. We played two very intense matches of Magic, and you took four of the five games. Very well done, sir.

The deck is very clever. I'll be testing it to be sure.
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 11:58:11 am »

Great job Jer.

You ripped me apart once again! I watched you play at least 6 games, and your deck was solid all day.  Congrats. 


However, Watching your top 8, the other match was ridiculous in the table next to you.  Rich was playing Craig- Craig had Magus of the Unseen, stole Rich's Grindtone, grinded rich's entire library which Rich wanted and Rich then had Will....  Just insane magic.  And in the next game Rich stole Craigs guildmage, time walked 4 times and then willed for the win. (Of course, he top decks time walk)

Magic is pretty fun right now. I am looking forward to the next time I play.


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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 08:00:28 pm »

Quote
3 Goblin Welder
1 Triskelavus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
3 Master of Etherium

Nice list.  With 3 Master of Etherium added to the CS build, ever consider Karn as a big artifact creature?  It has the mox eating capabilities plus if you animate your own moxen, they get +1 from master.

I know Karn usually only hangs out in Shop decks, but... well? Great report!
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 10:26:47 pm »

Quote
3 Goblin Welder
1 Triskelavus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
3 Master of Etherium

Nice list.  With 3 Master of Etherium added to the CS build, ever consider Karn as a big artifact creature?  It has the mox eating capabilities plus if you animate your own moxen, they get +1 from master.

I know Karn usually only hangs out in Shop decks, but... well? Great report!

Pointless comment based on not fully understanding/ comprehending Magic rules removed. Know, though, that I got served.

Interesting take on Slaver. How is capsule without Welder? Or is that like asking how Smokestack is without Workshop?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 12:29:46 am by NicolaeAlmighty » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 10:45:59 pm »

Quote
3 Goblin Welder
1 Triskelavus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
3 Master of Etherium

Nice list.  With 3 Master of Etherium added to the CS build, ever consider Karn as a big artifact creature?  It has the mox eating capabilities plus if you animate your own moxen, they get +1 from master.

I know Karn usually only hangs out in Shop decks, but... well? Great report!

... Animating Moxen kills them ::cough cough::

Not quite.

Quote
"418.5. Interaction of Continuous Effects

418.5a The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order: (1) copy effects (see rule 503, “Copying Objects”); (2) control-changing effects; (3) text-changing effects; (4) type-changing effects (which includes effects that change an object’s card type, subtype, and/or supertype); (5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness; and (6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects.
          Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order: (6a) effects from characteristic-defining abilities; (6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e; (6c) changes from counters; (6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; and (6e) effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b–418.5g).
"

Karn's ability is applied in layer 6a, which sets a mox to 0/0, master of etherium's static ability is applied in 6c, making the mox a 1/1.
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 10:46:46 pm »

Touche.
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« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 12:28:54 am »

About Karn:
I gave him some thought, but ultimately he doesn't do enough. I dropped Gorilla Shaman, which does 3/4 of Karn's work for 1/5 the cost. So adding cost for mid-late game functionality, while intriguing, isn't how I tried to streamline the deck. The deck currently tries to simply bowl over an opponent via card advantage. The gains from Karn are often not needed when you have superior advantage.

Every card in this deck has a purpose at all game states. If I were to try to sneak Karn into this deck, the only spot I could foresee would be triskelavus, who is a house.
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2008, 03:30:21 pm »

I played this Monday at Scholar's, and X-0'd without using the SB.  The maindeck was versatile enough to handle everything I ran up against, but the SB was also very narrow.  It's certainly effective vs a few decks, but, as with all sb's, not necessarily optimal for every field.  I'm not sure what direction I'll be going in with the SB, but I feel that my previous SB's would be a good fit for my approach to many common match ups.  Duress, Shaman and Rack and Ruin are cards that I'll be tinkering with.  Overall, the build is the most solid thing I've seen from you guys yet - and by a sound margin.

The previous work on things like Tyrant Oath ended up being starting points to later improvements.  I feel like this build is a refined product, not just good idea looking for some vital final tweeks.  I can see this becoming the established CS concept.  It is much stronger than the Strategic Planning hype.  Congrats on smashing a very competitive field, and putting Control Slaver soundly back on the map.  I had been lost as to what deck to play, and I think I'm going to just run with this for a while. 
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 09:50:21 am »

Quote
"418.5. Interaction of Continuous Effects

418.5a The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order: (1) copy effects (see rule 503, “Copying Objects”); (2) control-changing effects; (3) text-changing effects; (4) type-changing effects (which includes effects that change an object’s card type, subtype, and/or supertype); (5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness; and (6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects.
          Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order: (6a) effects from characteristic-defining abilities; (6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e; (6c) changes from counters; (6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; and (6e) effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b–418.5g).
"

Karn's ability is applied in layer 6a, which sets a mox to 0/0, master of etherium's static ability is applied in 6c, making the mox a 1/1.


You mean to say "Karn's ability is applied in layer 6b, which sets a mox to 0/0, master of etherium's static ability is applied in 6d, making the mox a 1/1." right?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 09:53:32 am by crovax » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2008, 10:21:54 am »

Quote
"418.5. Interaction of Continuous Effects

418.5a The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying continuous effects in a series of layers in the following order: (1) copy effects (see rule 503, “Copying Objects”); (2) control-changing effects; (3) text-changing effects; (4) type-changing effects (which includes effects that change an object’s card type, subtype, and/or supertype); (5) all other continuous effects, except those that change power and/or toughness; and (6) power- and/or toughness-changing effects.
          Inside each layer from 1 through 5, apply effects from characteristic-defining abilities first, then all other effects in timestamp order. Inside layer 6, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the following order: (6a) effects from characteristic-defining abilities; (6b) all other effects not specifically applied in 6c, 6d, or 6e; (6c) changes from counters; (6d) effects from static abilities that modify power and/or toughness but don’t set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value; and (6e) effects that switch a creature’s power and toughness. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a layer or sublayer. See also the rules for timestamp order and dependency (rules 418.5b–418.5g).
"

Karn's ability is applied in layer 6a, which sets a mox to 0/0, master of etherium's static ability is applied in 6c, making the mox a 1/1.


You mean to say "Karn's ability is applied in layer 6b, which sets a mox to 0/0, master of etherium's static ability is applied in 6d, making the mox a 1/1." right?


Yea. I guess I was tired when I posted originally.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 10:28:34 am by Webster » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 10:41:16 am »

@ Rock Lee,

Maybe this isn't an issue in your metagame, but what is your plan versus Dark Ritual decks like TPS, Long, or Ad Nauseam?  TPS won the Vintage Champs this year and TPS/Long decks have had very little trouble smashing Control Slaver in the past, and your Slaver list is even worse in this regard than others:

3 Goblin Welder
3 Master of Etherium
4 Courier Capsule

While these cards might be powerful in your metagame, they seem terribly weak when facing Dark Ritual decks. 

You have very few tools to address combo.   
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 10:44:24 am by Smmenen » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2008, 10:58:19 am »

It all depends on what type of combo you're up against.  In testing we've found that Extirpate and Misdirrection are by a wide margin the best tools for beating your typical Ad Nausem deck.  Extirpate is good because they have to commit something pre-AdN, and its usually a Dark Ritual.  Hitting this before they get the chance to flip cards means they often stuggle to find the required black mana, which means they have to dig deep.  Misdirrection is good if they are headed towards pact as the disruption of choice.  And the Thorns are gravy against stoping decks that lowered the land count in favor of Chrome Mox. 

TPS would probably give this deck a good run for its money.  And without Duress anywhere in main or board... I agree TPS is probably the last deck you would want to face off against.  To this point (as you pointed out), knowing our meta is useful.  Of the entire meta, combo is a fairly small portion.  And of the combo players you're much more likely to face off against Belcher or ANT than TPS (ELD might have the stats for this event to back that up).  Basically the rest of the board was more or less devoted to Painter - another Meta-favorite in our neck of the woods.
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2008, 11:02:41 am »

Misdirection is an additional free counter vs combo.  Tormod's maindeck is also a solid free play that eliminates many of the faster lines of play from storm decks.  I'll most likely go with 4x Duress from the SB for a start.  Some other disruption might also be needed.    

I am not a fan of the post board sphere plan.  I find it runs into so fundamental conflicting goals.  I board out most/all of my kill vs combo decks, and look to kill with Slaver.  I have found that locking them down under sphere isn't good enough because:

1 Sphere effects are no good without a clock to back them up.  They'll eventually fight out of it if you don't kill them.
2 Finishers are terrible unless you have spheres out.  Even a Titan hitting a land is usually way too slow in the match up.
3 They are only good when you have both together, which means you're running perfectly

Vs storm combo, you don't always have time to optimize your hand.  You can find yourself in a counter war losing U cards you'd rather not pitch.  I find having cards that work independent of the rest of the deck, and having a minimum of dead draws is key to having success vs combo.  
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2008, 12:00:16 pm »

Every Slaver deck for the past few years has had a maindeck Tormod's Crypt. 

Misdirection is an additional free counter vs combo. 

It's only a free counter if you are able to play another counterspell first.   Which isn't always the case.   

I would be eager to play against this deck as a TPS pilot.   The Slaver decks at the Vintage Champs were loaded with anti-TPS cards, and they couldn't beat it.  I am skeptical that this deck would fare any better, and it is missing key tactical cards like Scroll and Ponder which would help you more quickly set up your defenses and mold your hand.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 12:10:39 pm by Smmenen » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2008, 03:01:50 pm »

@ Rock Lee,

Maybe this isn't an issue in your metagame, but what is your plan versus Dark Ritual decks like TPS, Long, or Ad Nauseam?  TPS won the Vintage Champs this year and TPS/Long decks have had very little trouble smashing Control Slaver in the past, and your Slaver list is even worse in this regard than others:
3 Goblin Welder
3 Master of Etherium
4 Courier Capsule
While these cards might be powerful in your metagame, they seem terribly weak when facing Dark Ritual decks. 
You have very few tools to address combo.   

I tried to be an ad naus player in New England. You said it yourself,'this isn't the meta" every deck here is a blue deck with multiple duress effects or a silly aggro deck with nothing but hate. 

This deck beats aggro due to master of poop, and this deck also beats blue decks with the profound power of its card advantage. Good meta call Rock Lee!!!

Last time when I played naus I counted a total of 11 duress effects, 4 nullrods, 3 canonists, 5 force of wills, 2 mana drains, and 1 game ending bitter ordeal. It wasn't a good day to play combo
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2008, 04:40:47 pm »

I would imagine the strategy against tps with control slaver would be the following:
1. have tps player cast brainstorm
2. pray 50 minutes goes by while he is resolving brainstorm
3. draw
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Rand Paul is a stupid fuck, just like his daddy.  Let's go buy some gold!!!
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