[Deck Discussion] Painter's Control

[KurtySpice]

I didn't see a thread for painter control decks, so I'm making one to discuss this archetype.

The deck has been doing well since Vintage Worlds '08 when Owen Turtenwald top 8ed. This deck plays out as a control deck, but has a 2-card combo as a win-condition. It plays like most Mana Drain decks, but has an edge over other drain decks with 5 maindeck blasts. After sideboarding, you can transform into a Tarmogoyf control deck against decks such as STAX, MUD, Control Slaver, and pretty much every fish varient. The deck also has the ability to include packages such as tinker-darksteel colossus, and stifle-phyrexian dreadnought. Here is my current list:

Painter Control

Lands
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria

Creatures
3 Painter's Servant
2 Trinket Mage

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxes
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
2 Grindstone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Tormod's Crypt

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Rack and Ruin

Sorceries
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor

Sideboard
2 Tropical Island
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ingot Chewer
2 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus

Other lists to consider:

http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Events.aspx?x=mtgevent/usnat08/vintage2

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36507.0

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36854.0

[Rush]

I have one quick question KurtySpice, have you tried adding Time Vault/Voltaic Key here?  It only takes up 2 slots and yet it adds another, less mana intensive win-con.

[rikimaru75]

Kurt,

I ran a Painter build at the July baltimore vintage tournament to 2nd place.  Have you considered running Welders for some graveyard recursion or Academy Ruins over Library of Alexandria?

[OmniStrife_101]

I have one quick question KurtySpice, have you tried adding Time Vault/Voltaic Key here?  It only takes up 2 slots and yet it adds another, less mana intensive win-con.

Same here.  I have been toying around with the idea of having to hybrid Tezz and Painter in one deck.  I have not seen a proven list yet of that kind of built here.  Would it be viable?  Or would multiple kill conditions ruin the core strategy of the deck?

[Sporkcore]

At the Lotus tournament in Philly, I ran a Tezz/Painter hybrid to make T4, loosing to the slaver deck that won the tournament.

Austin Pollack: Tezzeret Painter

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Tinker
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Pyroblast
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Grindstone
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Voltaic Key
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Mox Emerald
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Academy Ruins
1 Sol Ring
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Magus of the Unseen
2 Island
4 Force of Will
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Painter's Servant
3 Mana Drain
2 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Underground Sea

SB:
2 Extirpate
1 Magus of the Unseen
3 Duress
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Platinum Angel
1 Trinisphere
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Mindslaver
2 Goblin Welder
1 Darkblast


Since then, I changed the MD and SB, taking out the Magus from the MD and SB, and I took the Gorilla Shaman out of the MB. Now it has Echoing Truth and Sundering Titan main, and a Triskelion in the board.

[OmniStrife_101]

@ Sporkcore: Thanks for the list will definitely consider your list on my build.

By the way, how was your match up against aggro/control based decks (especially in our meta, fish, aggro and Oath are the key decks).

I experienced in using the Tezz Painter configuration, I often tutor for Painter Servant using Tezzeret rather than Time Vault/Voltaic Key because of the presence of creatures from my opponent ready to kill my Tezzeret once I pass the turn.  In such case, would it be Tezz Painter Hybrid < Painter Control (straight up milling)?

[Sporkcore]

Depending on if they have Null Rod or not, I usually try to get out Vault and Key as soon as possible to lock them out until I can get a permanent win condition out against Fish. I'll even throw a Painter out there as a blocker if needed and depending on if I have a couple Red blasts in hand, I'll name it on blue so I have some removal. The Sowers in the board are amazing for the match up.

Oath is a whole different mess. It's a real pain to play against since they have almost as many counters as you, a fast clock, and usually Gaea's Blessing. I haven't done any testing against Oath, but I had to play against it twice in Philly. I drew against it once due to Empyrial Angel being able to absorb any damage I was going to deal it through 5/5 Artifacts and I beat Oath the next round by getting really lucky. I was able to get out Vault and Key in games 2 and 3 before I was going to lose to Hellkite beats.

With the deck, I try to get out either Key and Vault or Painter and Grindstone rather then using Tezz to get them. If I have either the Grindstone or the Painter in hand with Tezz, then that's the only time I'll use Tezz as a tinker to search up the second piece. I like to see how the opening hand is, and try to see how I'm going to win from there. It can throw your opponent off to win with Painter in game one, then when he brings in that hate, go infinite with Tezz in game 2. I like having the ability to transform into slaver also in games 2 or 3 to completely throw the opponent off. Welders also help make any artifact hate they bring in hurt a little less.

[rikimaru75]

Sporkcore,

I also ran a Tezz/Painter build (which my friend and I called Pez) at the same tournament.  I totally agree with your assessment on how to play your game based on what comes in hand.  I love that versatility that comes with the innate design.  However,  my only trouble was my sideboard strategy.  Are there any pointers you can give based on your notes on how to board vs. certain decks? You've already mentioned matchups against oath and fish.  Any advice is most appreciated.

Depending on if they have Null Rod or not, I usually try to get out Vault and Key as soon as possible to lock them out until I can get a permanent win condition out against Fish. I'll even throw a Painter out there as a blocker if needed and depending on if I have a couple Red blasts in hand, I'll name it on blue so I have some removal. The Sowers in the board are amazing for the match up.

Oath is a whole different mess. It's a real pain to play against since they have almost as many counters as you, a fast clock, and usually Gaea's Blessing. I haven't done any testing against Oath, but I had to play against it twice in Philly. I drew against it once due to Empyrial Angel being able to absorb any damage I was going to deal it through 5/5 Artifacts and I beat Oath the next round by getting really lucky. I was able to get out Vault and Key in games 2 and 3 before I was going to lose to Hellkite beats.

With the deck, I try to get out either Key and Vault or Painter and Grindstone rather then using Tezz to get them. If I have either the Grindstone or the Painter in hand with Tezz, then that's the only time I'll use Tezz as a tinker to search up the second piece. I like to see how the opening hand is, and try to see how I'm going to win from there. It can throw your opponent off to win with Painter in game one, then when he brings in that hate, go infinite with Tezz in game 2. I like having the ability to transform into slaver also in games 2 or 3 to completely throw the opponent off. Welders also help make any artifact hate they bring in hurt a little less.

[KurtySpice]

@Sporkcore: I'm not a big fan of the Tezzeret decks with all of the one-of artifacts. I think most of the time it just acts as a trinket mage when your getting anything except the time vault kill, but for 5 mana. Plus whenever I played with Tezzeret I had to mana drain the previous turn in order to feel comfortable about casting said planeswalker.
It just seems like an unfocused control deck that has bad matchups across the board

Also, I've tried Academy Ruins, but it's only useful against the other control decks, which this deck should beat because you just have more counterspells than them.

With the oath matchup, you board in just the sowers, and the key is to either sower their akroma, or combo out on them and hold a recall to respond to the blessing trigger. Or just blast the oath the turn they play it if you have a servant in play.

[Rush]

I wasn't suggesting playing Tez.  I was simply suggesting to add the Time Vault+Key combo.  I basically put the combo into any and every deck with Trinket Mage now.

[Sporkcore]

@rikimaru: I hate to say it, but I was mostly boarding on the fly. Depending on the matchup, I was boarding out certain parts of either combo or even both combos based on what my opponent saw and what I felt wouldn't be that good in the match. Such as boarding out the Painter/Grindstone combo if I Grinded them game one because they will probably bring in Blessing or something that will stop the combo. The only time I had an exact board plan was when I was in top 8 against Stax when I boarded out the 3 blasts, both Painters, the grindstone and 1 Tezzeret to board in the Angel, both Welders, the Slaver, both Extirpates and the Darkblast.


@Kurtyspice: I was only playing Tezzeret when either I was going for the 5/5 artifact win. He usually came down when I had the board locked down with Vault and key already or If I had enough mana to play him with enough counter backup.

Academy Ruins was amazing for me all tournament. It allowed me to pitch artifacts to Thirst for Knowledge and just grab them back. Against decks with artifact removal, it just delays the inevitable for one turn when they try to off any of the combo pieces. It also allows you to Grind yourself if you don't have a Divining Top out to find Painter's Servant, since if it hits the grave, you can just ruins him back.

Against Oath, you can also Grind them and Tormod's Crypt them with the Blessing trigger on the stack.