[Premium Article] Type One Tezzeret Dissected

[CHaPuZaS]

Yes, I've seen those in CS, it looks god, the problem with Fish, is that Master is not going to solve the problem. Let me explain, against Fish decks, if I get only one/2 turns to set the board, the game should e on the way to win, but the thing is that you don't even get that turn, nor you get the possibility to cast a cc3 creature, they are about to Stifle/Rod/daze your board, making you unable to set the control role.

I've thought many times on chaging the sideboard, adding many cards for winning Fish, but the results seem to show that it's better to lose against Fish than to not have a very good matchup against everything else.

Is Tezzeret highly played there? what about the overall results? Here, in Spain, it (Any variant) have just won 5 tournaments in a row.

[neverlookback]

Hi all im new on here my names jim tamulevich some of you might know me I wanted to show you all my list

4 drain
4 force
2 thoughtseize
2 duress
1 trinket mage
1 tinker
1 demonic tutor
1 vamp tutor
1 tinker
2 intuition
1 merchant scroll
1 timewalk
1 yagwmoths will
1 echoing truth
1 ancestral
1 deep analysis
4 a.k
1 brainstorm
1 skeletal scrying
1 senseis top
2 tezzeret
1 sundering titan
1 time vault
1 voltaic key
1 library of alexandria
1 tolarian academy
5 moxen
1 black lotus
1 mana crypt
1 sol ring
5 fetches
1 volcanic island
1 tropical island
2 island

Side
 3 tormods crypt
3 goyf
1 rack and ruin
2 lava dart
2 ancient grudge
2 extirpate
1 trop
1 volc

[Negator13]

You're missing some cards there.... I assume some number of Underground Seas, maybe Mana Vault + Lotus Petal?

[neverlookback]

You're missing some cards there.... I assume some number of Underground Seas, maybe Mana Vault + Lotus Petal?

Nah I don't play them but its 4 seas this is a new list cuz I was playing thirst before and fat man this lis is more broken I just don't like titan

[Negator13]

With the 4 Seas and without the Vault + Petal, thats only 59 (I Believe). Do you run Tormods main or something?

[desolutionist]

I really don't feel like bugging anyone so I can read this article, but I just wanted to disagree with wiley on Intuition:

As for the Intuition over TFK argument, well Intuition is a very skill intensive, and sometimes mentally exhausting card.

I don't think it's very skill intensive.  Anyone that plays this game competitively can probably know what to do with an Intuition.  Nice try/  

That said, if you are good with the card then there shouldn't be a definite reason to not play it over thirst.

Intuition is slower, first of all...  With such broken T1 cards in your arsenal, drawing 3 cards can be really, really good.  And I know I'm not the only one that hates playing with AKs.  The card makes your deck mulligan bad.  Not to mention tfk is tactically superior in the war of attrition.

The fact that you can sometimes get an extra card off thirst or that you may become more open to grave hate with intuition should be mitigated by the fact that you get the cards you want then and there.

Getting an extra card off tfk is icing on an already very solid card.  It's Instant speed sculpting on the stack and puts cards into the graveyard.  You really can't beat it.  I almost want to think, since the format is slower, that its more powerful than Brainstorm.

The only real way for it to backfire would be if you got time vault dropped into the yard and then crypted away, this can be avoided fairly easily by tutoring up tutors.  With such a compact and cheap combo I see intuition as the better card.

Tormod's Crypt definitely isn't something you can just "tutor out-of".    Trade your turn, your tutor, and another turn and bounce spell so you can start, lol, drawing cards?   And you're still not immune to Leyline, or Extirpate.  You're also giving your opponent a lot of information about what you have when playing an Intuition. ("Oh nice Time Vault, I should Twister now")   

[neverlookback]

With the 4 Seas and without the Vault + Petal, thats only 59 (I Believe). Do you run Tormods main or something?

Nope second d.a is missing sorry

[wiley]

I really don't feel like bugging anyone so I can read this article, but I just wanted to disagree with wiley on Intuition:

As for the Intuition over TFK argument, well Intuition is a very skill intensive, and sometimes mentally exhausting card.

I don't think it's very skill intensive.  Anyone that plays this game competitively can probably know what to do with an Intuition.  Nice try/  

It is as skill intesive as any tutor in a combo/control deck.  The ability to see all lines of play from every possible card in your deck is a skill, and one tha goes undervalued by most.  An example of this skill from Stephen's articles would be in one of his tournament reports where he had two bobs out, a vamp in hand and 4-5 life.  If I recall correctly he died to his bobs and after the game Chapin said he thought Stephen was going to vamp for brainstorm.  A play Stephen hadn't thought of.  His skill failed him during that game.

If anything intuition is more skill intensive because you are tutoring for three cards and trying to get a particular one, thereby requiring you to control your signals and send false information to the opponent.  Even if you learn every basic combination through sheer repetition there are many piles for specific situations that many people will just never see.  Hence why I believe it to be a skill intensive card.

That said, if you are good with the card then there shouldn't be a definite reason to not play it over thirst.

Intuition is slower, first of all...  With such broken T1 cards in your arsenal, drawing 3 cards can be really, really good.  And I know I'm not the only one that hates playing with AKs.  The card makes your deck mulligan bad.  Not to mention tfk is tactically superior in the war of attrition.

How do you get that intuition is the slower card?  It s still a 2u instant, except it tutors for the win whereas TFK draws three random cards.  I also never said anything about shoving AKs into the deck, that would be a horrible idea.  What I am saying is that a tutor package is better than a draw package for a deck with a win condition that need effectively 1-2 cards.  When you cast intuition you should be finding your win conditions, just like when you cast tfk you are digging for you win conditions.  There is also the chance that tfk draws you into 2-3 completely useless cards, while that doesn't happen very often, the fact that intuition never do that will eventually be the deciding factor of a game.  Even in a war of attrition you can overwhelm the opponent with card quality, so intuition is still good here.

The fact that you can sometimes get an extra card off thirst or that you may become more open to grave hate with intuition should be mitigated by the fact that you get the cards you want then and there.

Getting an extra card off tfk is icing on an already very solid card.  It's Instant speed sculpting on the stack and puts cards into the graveyard.  You really can't beat it.  I almost want to think, since the format is slower, that its more powerful than Brainstorm.

My point still stands, the only bonus of tfk over intuition is the possibility of a second card.  Period.  Both are instant speed, both sculpt your hand (and with intuition you never have to hope you draw into the right card) and both put cards into the grave.  In this deck both are probably more powerful than brainstorm, I would still run brainstorm though, since it offers many possible outs even as a singleton (especially for the cost of u).

The only real way for it to backfire would be if you got time vault dropped into the yard and then crypted away, this can be avoided fairly easily by tutoring up tutors.  With such a compact and cheap combo I see intuition as the better card.

Tormod's Crypt definitely isn't something you can just "tutor out-of".    Trade your turn, your tutor, and another turn and bounce spell so you can start, lol, drawing cards?   And you're still not immune to Leyline, or Extirpate.  You're also giving your opponent a lot of information about what you have when playing an Intuition. ("Oh nice Time Vault, I should Twister now")   

The example, simplified, says that unless you misplay intuition it won't backfire.  How often do you find yourself casting a main phase thirst for knowledge?  Both spells should, in all likelihood be played on the opponent's end step.  This means that you have to fizzle in your turn for him to cast crypt and get your graveyard.  If they already have crypt/leyline in play then you have to work around it/answer it before finding everything you need to win.  Thirst is similar in that you need a hand filled with things you are willing to lose before you cast it, while tfk is slightly better in that particular situation it isn't by much (intuition can find answers).

Extirpate doesn't see play in the states, and even in other countries it is in very small numbers.  If you were playing against a deck that won through a non graveyard based combo would you side in extirpate?  Even if I saw them casting intuitions in game 1 I doubt that I would, since it doesn't really stop the thing that is going to kill me.

The information advantage for your opponent is the most compelling argument to not play intuition.  However, I see it like this: currently the vast majority of decks run duress, which means that you will often be duressed before casting an intuition (if they don't take the intuition) meaning the advantage is null.  Another thing is that you will often be fetching out your win condition and trying to win on your turn.  Meaning that the advantage is null.  The last thought is that you can use intuition to send false signals to your opponent while you set up for your win, making the advantage yours.

Again, I'll state my hypothesis (since I have little to no time to test right now).

Intuition is better than thirst for knowledge in a deck that relies on a two card, low mana cost combo to win.  This does not mean intuition + ak, this means intuiition.  A stronger tutor package is better than a tutor package + minor draw spells.

[desolutionist]

It is as skill intesive as any tutor in a combo/control deck.  The ability to see all lines of play from every possible card in your deck is a skill, and one tha goes undervalued by most.  An example of this skill from Stephen's articles would be in one of his tournament reports where he had two bobs out, a vamp in hand and 4-5 life.  If I recall correctly he died to his bobs and after the game Chapin said he thought Stephen was going to vamp for brainstorm.  A play Stephen hadn't thought of.  His skill failed him during that game.

I never played against anyone in a tournament who didn't know his deck or how to play something simple like an Intuition.  You almost always know which cards are going to the graveyard and which card is going to your hand, eliminating good tutor targets already.  Now, people fucked up with Gifts Ungiven all the time and I still lose games messing up a Gifts pile.  That card definitely required thinking. 

How do you get that intuition is the slower card?  It s still a 2u instant, except it tutors for the win whereas TFK draws three random cards.  I also never said anything about shoving AKs into the deck, that would be a horrible idea.  What I am saying is that a tutor package is better than a draw package for a deck with a win condition that need effectively 1-2 cards.  When you cast intuition you should be finding your win conditions, just like when you cast tfk you are digging for you win conditions.  There is also the chance that tfk draws you into 2-3 completely useless cards, while that doesn't happen very often, the fact that intuition never do that will eventually be the deciding factor of a game.  Even in a war of attrition you can overwhelm the opponent with card quality, so intuition is still good here.

Well we obviously disagree with what you can actually get with an Intuition.  What kind of piles do you have in mind?  Do you have a decklist?

The example, simplified, says that unless you misplay intuition it won't backfire.  How often do you find yourself casting a main phase thirst for knowledge?  Both spells should, in all likelihood be played on the opponent's end step.  This means that you have to fizzle in your turn for him to cast crypt and get your graveyard.  If they already have crypt/leyline in play then you have to work around it/answer it before finding everything you need to win.  Thirst is similar in that you need a hand filled with things you are willing to lose before you cast it, while tfk is slightly better in that particular situation it isn't by much (intuition can find answers).

I was trying to say that having to deal with a turn 1 Tormod's Crypt will probably set you too far behind against whatever you're playing against.  I like Thirst because it allows you to draw into your answers so you don't have to burn tutors on them.  (You might have Intuition, but do you have the tutor for Will?)

I disagree with some of the other things you said, but I gotta go.  I'll finish later.

[hitman]

The problem with Intuition is it's not necessarily good when you're in an even game state with your opponent.  There are advantages for a Drain deck to draw random cards in an even game state because your opponent has to weigh the pros and cons of interacting over the first card you cast with little to no information about subsequent lines of play.  When you have two fresh cards in hand, and possibly access to your third in the graveyard, your opponent doesn't always know which way to correctly interact with you.  With enough mana, you can outplay your opponent in these situations whereas Intuition gives your opponent a great deal more information to correctly interact with.

When both player's hands have been exhausted, Intuition becomes a much better card.  I would think that if you play Duress/Thoughtseize, Intuition becomes the more valuable card because you limit your opponent's ability to meaningfully interact with you.  Thirst's strengths are greatly minimized in a gamestate where you know your opponent's hand because you would be wasting time randomly drawing cards if you know you can "go for the throat" now. 

The debate over Intuition and Thirst for Knowledge hinges on which role you take most of the time.  If you assume the control role most of the time, Thirst for Knowledge is the better card.  If your deck functions in a way that you would switch roles from control to combo very quickly, Intuition is clearly the better card.  It all depends on what you're trying to do with your deck at which point of the game you're doing it. 
Intuition is better in a short game where you strip your opponent of his options with Duress and quickly win thereafter and Thirst for Knowledge is better at carrying you into the long game, assuming correct deck construction with these purposes in mind anyway.

Just my opinion.

[Smmenen]

I really don't feel like bugging anyone so I can read this article, but I just wanted to disagree with wiley on Intuition:

As for the Intuition over TFK argument, well Intuition is a very skill intensive, and sometimes mentally exhausting card.

I don't think it's very skill intensive.  Anyone that plays this game competitively can probably know what to do with an Intuition.  Nice try/  

It is as skill intesive as any tutor in a combo/control deck.  The ability to see all lines of play from every possible card in your deck is a skill, and one tha goes undervalued by most.  An example of this skill from Stephen's articles would be in one of his tournament reports where he had two bobs out, a vamp in hand and 4-5 life.  If I recall correctly he died to his bobs and after the game Chapin said he thought Stephen was going to vamp for brainstorm.  A play Stephen hadn't thought of.  His skill failed him during that game.

If anything intuition is more skill intensive because you are tutoring for three car

The situation was alot more complicated than than that, but you remembered a good deal of it. 

And it wasn't Chapin, it was Luis Scott Vargas. 

[breed]

@CHaPuZaS: Thanks for you analyzis. Your deck is really fast. I tested it against a friend playing Gobbos and Fish UWB. Some games I was able to win on turn 3 easily with backup! The only thing I will consider (for my rogue meta with lots of null rod here in France) is to add Tinker/DSC instead of a misdi and another card (dont know wich one).

 

[OwenTheEnchanter]

My question is when you cut Thirst for Knowledge from Tez for Intuition, what do you cut for 4 Demigod of Revenge?

[garathiel]

@CHaPuZaS <- Tomorrow i'll play your deck in the central italy metagame 50%fish/ichorid/artifact - 25%draindeck 25%combo ... do u think that -1reb +1pithing needle for the maindeck ... and +1 pithing needle for the sideboard could increase our matchup for fish/ichorid?

BYE!!! ... making U->draw2 is very strong ... and going under multiple spheres with thoughtcast is crazy fun 

[garathiel]

http://www.deckcheck.net/stats.php?id=48500

creature [1]
1 Platinum Angel

instant [19]
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor

sorcery [8]
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Thoughtcast
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

artifact [15]
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
2 Voltaic Key

land [15]
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
3 Polluted Delta
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Underground Sea

planeswalker [2]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker

60 cards

---

Top8 this week with this deck , thanks to Cèsar for the initial build!

[breed]

well done!

A question: why play Platinum over DSC?
Also, cutting red seems to be problematic for sideboarding no?

[garathiel]

another change , -1fetch +2°island from that list , using 4fetch 2island 3underground for a bicolor build.

Cutting red i loose ingot & rebs but i gain more stability ( i don't autoloose from wasteland/gorillashaman ) and I need to change the post side strategy post side ... with 1colossus ... and bounce like hurkyl that is a combo enabler too ( tap sensei ... hurkyl & gain 1card and mana).

I was thinking a thing like this...
1darksteel colossus
2pithing needle
2tormod's crypt
4duress
2extirpate
2hurkyll's
1engineered plagueù

@Platz-> in the tournament I loose 1game because of manacrypt under timevault/key ... so i think we need tinker+creature ... and i think that platz could give us the time we need to found the combo , increasing the combo match-up ( that is good already ) ... and i choose platz because he is very simple to hardcast in this deck.

[LordHomerCat]

@Platz-> in the tournament I loose 1game because of manacrypt under timevault/key ... so i think we need tinker+creature ... and i think that platz could give us the time we need to found the combo , increasing the combo match-up ( that is good already ) ... and i choose platz because he is very simple to hardcast in this deck.

But here's the thing: if you are able to land Tinker-Plats before Mana Crypt kills you... Why not just tinker away the Mana Crypt itself?  That has been my solution.

[garathiel]

This could be done with the trasmute build ... here u could hardcast platz , so u have an out more.

[neverlookback]

This could be done with the trasmute build ... here u could hardcast platz , so u have an out more.

if your that worried about just don't play it.....you could always play mana vault I guess, idk I've never had a problem with mana crypt

[jamestosetti]

Here's my variant of the  decklist that made top 8 in Rome a while back, I've won countless games with this.

1 tolarian academy           
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
2 island
3 underground sea
3 tropical island
1 library of alexandria

3 tarmogoyf
1 darksteel colossus
1 voltaic key
1 time vault
1 sol ring
2 sensei's divining top
1 mox saphire
1 mox jet
1 mox emerald
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 echoing truth
1 hurkyl's recall
4 thirst for knowledge
4 mana drain
4 force of will
1 misdirection
1 ancestral recall
1 fact or fiction
1 brainstorm
1 chain of vapor
1 tinker
1 imperial seal
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 duress
2 thoughtseize
1 yawgmoth's will
1 timewalk
1 tezzeret the seeker

sideboard
2 tormods crypt
2 pithing needle
2 extirpate
3 trygon predator
2 engineered explosives
1 sundering titan
1 arcane laboratory
1 blue elemental blast
1 hydroblast

[OmniStrife_101]

Here's my variant of the  decklist that made top 8 in Rome a while back, I've won countless games with this.

1 tolarian academy           
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
2 island
3 underground sea
3 tropical island
1 library of alexandria

3 tarmogoyf
1 darksteel colossus
1 voltaic key
1 time vault
1 sol ring
2 sensei's divining top
1 mox saphire
1 mox jet
1 mox emerald
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 echoing truth
1 hurkyl's recall
4 thirst for knowledge
4 mana drain
4 force of will
1 misdirection
1 ancestral recall
1 fact or fiction
1 brainstorm
1 chain of vapor
1 tinker
1 imperial seal
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 duress
2 thoughtseize
1 yawgmoth's will
1 timewalk
1 tezzeret the seeker

sideboard
2 tormods crypt
2 pithing needle
2 extirpate
3 trygon predator
2 engineered explosives
1 sundering titan
1 arcane laboratory
1 blue elemental blast
1 hydroblast

Congratz on your finish and thanks for posting your list.

After giving it some thought, I can see that the splash for green was for Tarmogoyf (maindeck) and Trygon Predator (side board) only.  Would using 3 Master of Etherium in your built be any good compared to Tarmogoyf?  This is given the large number of artifacts you are running.  This way, you can also stabilize your mana base by just sticking to two colors.  Just my .02 cents here.

[jamestosetti]

Master of Etherium would be more effective in a deck that plays 0 costing artifacts like Crome Mox or Mox Diamond and the rest of the zero cost stuff but youd still have to use other colors to keep up with the speed of the format. Tarmogoyf or the color green in general for using trygon predator is far more efficient and effective. Tarmogoyf can hit the board quick wich is good against goblins and fish and great late game against any deck as this deck is kind of a control deck with outlets to win. Trygon Predator is a big part of the succes of this deck especially against shop and anything playing Nullrod or Chalice of the Void and is extra help against fish and goblins. Master of Etherium is less efficient because you would have to dedicate space to zero costing artifacts but what happens if master of Etherium is countered?  After playing goblins today I decided to cut Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast from the s/b and use Mystical Tutor and another Tarmogoyf. I dont like Mystical Tutor in the maindeck game 1 and I'd use it against fish or goblins more than likely to Tinker myself out of a bad situation.


PS lol            I am not the one who made top 8 in Rome with this deck. I saw that you said congrats on your finish. I tried the deck when I saw it on magicdeck.com a few days before this article was written. I tried some other variations before this and found that this was far better than the others. I dont know which is better this one or Steve Menendian's but I'd almost say one is not better than the other I'd say its up to the metagame.

[orgcandman]

It is as skill intesive as any tutor in a combo/control deck.  The ability to see all lines of play from every possible card in your deck is a skill, and one tha goes undervalued by most.  An example of this skill from Stephen's articles would be in one of his tournament reports where he had two bobs out, a vamp in hand and 4-5 life.  If I recall correctly he died to his bobs and after the game Chapin said he thought Stephen was going to vamp for brainstorm.  A play Stephen hadn't thought of.  His skill failed him during that game.

I never played against anyone in a tournament who didn't know his deck or how to play something simple like an Intuition.  You almost always know which cards are going to the graveyard and which card is going to your hand, eliminating good tutor targets already.  Now, people fucked up with Gifts Ungiven all the time and I still lose games messing up a Gifts pile.  That card definitely required thinking. 

I think you think gifts and intuition are more different than they really are. If people are messing up with gifts, they're definitely messing up with intuition. The two do a functionally similar thing, with a caveat that they don't do exactly the same thing. Both present you with the first opportunity to make a play mistake by choosing the wrong tutor targets, and then your opponent to give you the wrong card(s). The fact that gifts has additional restriction for additional reward doesn't change that.

How do you get that intuition is the slower card?  It s still a 2u instant, except it tutors for the win whereas TFK draws three random cards.  I also never said anything about shoving AKs into the deck, that would be a horrible idea.  What I am saying is that a tutor package is better than a draw package for a deck with a win condition that need effectively 1-2 cards.  When you cast intuition you should be finding your win conditions, just like when you cast tfk you are digging for you win conditions.  There is also the chance that tfk draws you into 2-3 completely useless cards, while that doesn't happen very often, the fact that intuition never do that will eventually be the deciding factor of a game.  Even in a war of attrition you can overwhelm the opponent with card quality, so intuition is still good here.

Well we obviously disagree with what you can actually get with an Intuition.  What kind of piles do you have in mind?  Do you have a decklist?

Erm, Intuition can get anything. Need a land? Intuition can get it. Need a bunch of draw cards? No problem. Need some win conditions? Blamo. Intuition does not do the same thing as Thirst, and they cannot be seen to occupy the same slot.

The example, simplified, says that unless you misplay intuition it won't backfire.  How often do you find yourself casting a main phase thirst for knowledge?  Both spells should, in all likelihood be played on the opponent's end step.  This means that you have to fizzle in your turn for him to cast crypt and get your graveyard.  If they already have crypt/leyline in play then you have to work around it/answer it before finding everything you need to win.  Thirst is similar in that you need a hand filled with things you are willing to lose before you cast it, while tfk is slightly better in that particular situation it isn't by much (intuition can find answers).

I was trying to say that having to deal with a turn 1 Tormod's Crypt will probably set you too far behind against whatever you're playing against.  I like Thirst because it allows you to draw into your answers so you don't have to burn tutors on them.  (You might have Intuition, but do you have the tutor for Will?)

I disagree with some of the other things you said, but I gotta go.  I'll finish later.

I don't think that your example is good at all. If someone drops a tormod's crypt, I sure as hell won't be casting or seeking out Will. In fact, if my opponent leads off with a crypt and I have a will in hand, I'll hope I get a brainstorm to shuffle it back. My Intuition, in that case, will be working towards winning. As it always does. Thirst doesn't let a graveyard dependent deck ignore graveyard hate. Neither does Intuition.

[Smmenen]

Are people interested in an update of this article for sometime in February? 

[HoPe]

yeees! plz!

I realy like your articles on Tezz

[Troy_Costisick]

Are people interested in an update of this article for sometime in February? 

Maybe a week or two after Conflux is released.  So far in the spoiled cards there's nothing I have seen that has impressed me much, but then again, no one saw Reveillark right away in Morningtide either.  So once people get a chance to addapt their Tez lists to the new batch from Conflux, I'd love to see an update to this article.

Peace,

-Troy

[God_Campbell]

I to would like to see an updated Tezz list, I would be curious to see if you feel 2,3,4 or 5 colors is the correct approach to the deck, and also the Oath SB plan that Meandeck has unleashed over the past month or 2.