[Deck] Rgw Beats

[Bone]

My first post  (23 year old, european, 1800 player)

Starting with my current decklist:

Spells {15}
4 Æther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Skullclamp

Creatures {25}
4 Kird Ape
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Ronom Unicorn
1 Kami of the Ancient Law
3 Stingscourger
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Magus of the Moon

Lands {20}
1 Strip Mine
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
2 Wasteland
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

S.B. {15}
3 Null Rod
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Ray of Revelation
4 Ethersworn Canonist

My meta consist mostly of rogue decks, goblins and fish. Have tested this deck against Dragon Reanimate, UG Fish, Hirofish(WB), UB Control and Goblins. All matchups was fairly easy. Only had some trouble against Dragon Reanimate before I could find my grunts. I am happy with most of my cards but there are always room for improvemet. I'm not 100% sure on running the 2 Magus of the Moon. Since I don't have any acceleration it don't come out until turn 3 and that seems a little to late, even in a meta without power. Should I keep him or change for something better? And should I remove 1 of the last 3 cards in my SB to add a 4th Null Rod or should I keep it as it is?

[Dr.KnowMaD]

Wild Nacatl is the new Kird Ape.

No Tarmogoyf? 

I think the fourth Null Rod is important but as for which cards to switch that could go many ways and wil be a personal decision in the end.

Dr.KnowMaD

[Bone]

Wild Nacatl is the new Kird Ape.

No Tarmogoyf? 

I think the fourth Null Rod is important but as for which cards to switch that could go many ways and wil be a personal decision in the end.

Dr.KnowMaD

Yeah, was thinking about it. Wild Nacatl seems like a better deal than Kird Ape. Next tourney (soon) I will test Kird Ape and in every situation I have them think if I would rather have a Wild Nacatl. If the answer is yes most of the time I will change. Tarmogoyf is an excellent creature but i'm not 100% sure. If I add goyf I will have to change from 4xLightning Bolt to 4xSeal of Fire and I'm not sure if that's the correct thing to do in my meta. But if I need bigger beats how does it sounds to change from 2xMagus of the Moon to 2xWoolly Thoctar? Thanks for taking interrest in this thread btw.

[nineisnoone]

From the TMWA thread http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35901.120

A very strong deck list

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35901.120

3 Plateau
4 Tin Street Hooligan
3 Windsweapt Heath
3 Vexing Shusher
3 Savannah
1 Black Lotus
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
3 Skullclamp
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to plowshares
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mountain
4 Mog Fanatic
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Kird Ape
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Forest

My own RGW deck

3   Windswept Heath
3   Flooded Strand
3   Taiga
3   Savannah
3   Plateau
1   Mountain
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Black Lotus
 
4   Wild Nacatl   
3   Children of Korlis
3   Mogg Fanatic
4   Ethersworn Canonist   
4   Tarmogoyf   
4   Tin Street Hooligan
2   Gaddock Teeg   
2   Vexing Shusher
2   True Believer
4   Pyrostatic Pillar
4   Aether Vial
1   Eldamari's Call   
3   Skullclamp

SIDEBOARD
4x Red Elemental Blast
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Heap Doll

My build is basically the same as Chief's (after many alterations), mostly main deck Pillars over Swords.

I don't really see Magus and a 3 color build.  Difficult on mana base.  But then that's me.

Nactal > Ape (you should get all 3 colors in your first 2 turns anyways). 

And Goyf is still good even if you don't run Seal of Fire.  Land + Instant + Sorcery alone is already 3/4.  Tin-Street (or whatever artifact hate you'll run) is already 4/5.  If a creature get's binned, that's 5/6.  Seal is really not necessary.  And they are definitely better than Grunts. 

I would put Cannonists/Vexing in the main deck over the Ponies.  Unless you're Meta is more Oath than Combo/Control I suppose. 

Why do you run Lightning Bolt when you already run Swords and 3 Stingscourgers?  4 Swords is enough really.

I don't understand the Null Rods in the SB.  Why not just make these Pithing Needles (I run 3x Pithing Needling btw) in the SB instead?  Sideboard you know what to name, and it allows you to keep Vial and Clamp in your deck.

[Bone]

Thanks for long and in-depth answer

Lightning Bolt is because alot of decks with small annoying creatures in my meta. The ponies are because of Oath, Bitterblossom and Propaganda. I agree with you on the matter of Null Rod. They are out, Pithing Needle is in. I don't own any power at the moment but once I get some pieces I will add them. It looks like I change my current build to this one before the tournament (I don't have all the cards but will change when I get them). Hope to get the deck as complete as possible before tourney so I will get a real feel of how it works. Here's the list:

Spells {15}
4 Æther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Skullclamp

Creatures {25}
4 Wild Nacatl (instead of Kird Ape)
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Ronom Unicorn
1 Kami of the Ancient Law
3 Stingscourger
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Vexing Shusher (instead of Magus of the Moon)

Lands {20}
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
3 Plateau (instead of basic lands)
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland

S.B. {15}
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Ray of Revelation
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle (instead of Null Rod)

[nineisnoone]

No sweat.   

If you feel your Meta makes the enchant hate worth it, then by all means go for it.

If you are not running Tarmogoyf, why not run Grim Lavamancer?  Or do you need that 3rd point of damage?  (I guess it also doesn't work well with Grunt).

Another note, I prefer Javelineers to Fanatic.  It's a turn slower, but you can clamp it for card draw when you done with it unlike Fanatic.

[Soon-Man]

Are  AEther Vial and Skullclamp better then Null Rod?

[Bone]

Are  AEther Vial and Skullclamp better then Null Rod?

This deck works great with æther vial and skullclamp, I would not consider playing it without those two. I like null rod but as nineisnoone pointed out it don't work great with vial and clamp. There is not so much moxen, lotus, workshop etc in my meta so I think null rod is not as good in this deck, and meta, as it is in other decks.

[nineisnoone]

Are  AEther Vial and Skullclamp better then Null Rod?

Not an invalid question.  But RGW is different than BUG.  U gives you Stifle and Cursecather.  Both of which are strong generally and stronger with you combine with Null Rod. Additionally, B/U are not that strong in artifact hate (aside from Energy Flux I suppose). Null rod in RGW doesn't really give you anything.  Artifact hate is somewhat redundant beacause R/G naturally gives you Tin-Street and Gorilla Shaman.  You don't really have land hate, unless you decide to got Magus of the Moon which would be a different deck. So that means you would mean less synergy for the mana denial package.

[Bone]

Playtested alot yesterday using this list (landbase is not optimal because I don't have 3xtaiga and 4xwindswept heath yet)

Spells {15}
4 Æther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Skullclamp

Creatures {25}
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Ronom Unicorn
1 Kami of the Ancient Law
3 Stingscourger
2 Jotun Grunt
2 True Believer !!

Lands {20}
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Windswept Heath
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Savannah
1 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland

S.B. {15}
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Ray of Revelation
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Tivedar of Thorn !!

A couple of things that I liked alot with this list. I own all the cards so I don't have to worry about trading right before the torney starts. True Believer is excellent when you vial him in in response to any spell targeting you, from lightning bolt to tendrils of agony. The ww cost worries me a little if going to hardcast him. There are 10 players that have signed up to the tourney yet, and 3 of them plays goblins. With 4 canonist and 3 tivedar in the sideboard this matchup should be good.

[Troy_Costisick]

Do you really need 20 lands in a deck with Aether Vial?

[Bone]

Do you really need 20 lands in a deck with Aether Vial?

I feel since it's 3 color deck that I need 20 mana sources. In some games when I draw the 4th (in some cases 5th) land I really wish it was a spell instad. But with skullclamp working I get to use all my lands. Remember 8 of them are fetches and 3 of them are strip mine/wasteland, so I only have like 9 "real" lands.

[Dr.KnowMaD]

I have a quick question. 

Has anyone else thought of using Tarfire instead of Lightning bolt, I know that sounds like blasphemy but most of the critters that the bolts are good for are two and under power.  I know bolt does more to the dome but possibly less with an active Tarmogoyf (faster/better clock).  I have not been running red lately so I haven't tried this out and it's just a theory.

                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                      let me know
                                                                                                                                      Dr.KnowMaD

                                                                                                                             
 Sorry I was talking if Tarmogoyf is played, which is well worth the hype on this creature. I vote play the goyf.                                                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                             

[Sporkcore]

One thing that Bolt does is take out Painter's Servants that can get in the way of any 2/X that R/G/W can play, as well as take out opposing Tarmogoyfs before they become a problem.

[chief]

Just weighing in on the topic, I will always 100% play fanatic over javelineers.  The turn is just way too important way too often to go the other way (them getting a card from a confidant, getting a turn with a welder, etc.) and also, the fact that fanatic still gets activated on your attack is highly relevant.

[Pomaxx]

i really like the deck a lot and while brainstorming the lists, some questions arose.

a)Chalice seems to fit in quite well (may it be sideboard or even maindeck). ideally you may drop Chalice @ 0 fist turn(s) and later on, once you have a vial or Shusher out, you might even set it @ 1or 2, depending on the opponents deck.

b)with skullclamps trading own creatures against opposing Goyfs or whatever  on the ground seems like a good choice for this deck. so generally smaller damage dealing creatures should not be that much of a problem in between swords and an assault of your own beaters equipped with a clmap.
utility creatures you must get rid of asap like welders or confidants can be answered by a timely fanatic or (again) swords.

this leads me to the question: are the lightning bolts really needed as creature removal? are they worth the slot for the last burn damage? i really think that lightning bolt is a good card but its not 100% needed here.

[Bone]

Matches: 5 – 0 – 1, Games: 11 – 3 – 2 (WIN - LOOSE - DRAW)

Got 1st in 14 man tourney yesterday.

Æther Vial was good as always
Wild Nacatl was mvp, this cat is THE best 1cc creature in magic.
Mogg Fanatic was runner up, worked great.
Skullclamp is a must for card advantage.
Tin Street Hooligan, can't do without.

[chief]

i really like the deck a lot and while brainstorming the lists, some questions arose.

a)Chalice seems to fit in quite well (may it be sideboard or even maindeck). ideally you may drop Chalice @ 0 fist turn(s) and later on, once you have a vial or Shusher out, you might even set it @ 1or 2, depending on the opponents deck.

b)with skullclamps trading own creatures against opposing Goyfs or whatever  on the ground seems like a good choice for this deck. so generally smaller damage dealing creatures should not be that much of a problem in between swords and an assault of your own beaters equipped with a clmap.
utility creatures you must get rid of asap like welders or confidants can be answered by a timely fanatic or (again) swords.

this leads me to the question: are the lightning bolts really needed as creature removal? are they worth the slot for the last burn damage? i really think that lightning bolt is a good card but its not 100% needed here.

Bolt seems fine for the meta he described, but in your average meta you're right that it isn't optimal.  The first list that nine posted earlier is mine, and I really feel that it is close to optimal for an RGW deck.  Chalice in that structure, however, is a distruption card too many in the main. In a build more like nine's it may fit a little better, i'm not sure.

[Dr.KnowMaD]

One thing that Bolt does is take out Painter's Servants that can get in the way of any 2/X that R/G/W can play, as well as take out opposing Tarmogoyfs before they become a problem.

So should the four Swords to Plowshares.  If you have an aggressive offense of dudes putting the pressure on there is a good chance they might block a 2/2.

If there is a lot of creatures in the meta than I don't see the problem and would keep them for now, though they are probably not 100% needed.

Chalice seems to fit in quite well (may it be sideboard or even maindeck). ideally you may drop Chalice @ 0 fist turn(s) and later on, once you have a vial or Shusher out, you might even set it @ 1or 2, depending on the opponents deck.

I like the idea mostly to shut of other peoples spells.  More so I think adding the other two Vexing Shusher would be good, either main or board depending on the exact meta.


                                                                                                                                                                 Dr.KnowMaD

Bolt seems fine for the meta he described

Jinx.

[nineisnoone]

The first list that nine posted earlier is mine, and I really feel that it is close to optimal for an RGW deck.  Chalice in that structure, however, is a distruption card too many in the main. In a build more like nine's it may fit a little better, i'm not sure.

I tried chalice but I wasn't really sold on it.  I made some changes to my deck posted earlier and added more one drops so it is even less likely I'd play it now.

Honestly, I would rather add a couple Thorn of Amethyst before Chalice.

My main changes was based on the realization of the fact that I was letting mana go to waste by not running enough 1 drops to play something with Vial @1.  So added 3x Korlis, 3x Fanatic, and 2x Heap Doll, giving me 12 Vial @ 1 plays.  In retrospect, chief is right that the turn loss is due to Javelineers outweighs the benefits of being clampable.

My own RGW deck

3   Windswept Heath
3   Flooded Strand
3   Taiga
3   Savannah
3   Plateau
1   Mountain
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Black Lotus
 
4   Wild Nacatl   
3   Children of Korlis
3   Mogg Fanatic
4   Ethersworn Canonist   
4   Tarmogoyf   
4   Tin Street Hooligan
2   Gaddock Teeg   
2   Vexing Shusher
2   True Believer
4   Pyrostatic Pillar
4   Aether Vial
1   Eldamari's Call   
3   Skullclamp

SIDEBOARD
4x Red Elemental Blast
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Heap Doll

[Pomaxx]

                                                                                                                                         

Bolt seems fine for the meta he described

i have to agree, but if the meta has just so many aggro decks running around that the list almost seems to need StP and Bolts, why not change the deck to smtg like oath? 


Chalice issue:
what i like most about adding Chalice (in a more controlish/comboish meta, thought) to the maindeck is that you get another nasty proactive thread you may lay down fast and which just slows the opponent a lot or if Chalice is set @ 1 or 2 shuts them off as hell in between Canonist and Teeg.


lets assume you are on the play with a nice hand and start your play with Land, Vial and Chalice @ 0. this improves your matchups against decks packing Moxen/Lotus and the like a lot, giving you the speed advantage to beat and add other lock pieces to the board.
without Chalice i would still fear broken turn one plays on the other side of the table.

with Shushers you can easily play additional Chalices you draw @1 or @2 as well and still be able to cast your spells even if Vial gets removed somehow.


Thorn of the Amethyst is a lot slower. even if you are able to get it in turn one via Mox acceleration, you miss another important turn one drop instead (like Vial or a Critter).

[Bone]

 i have to agree, but if the meta has just so many aggro decks running around that the list almost seems to need StP and Bolts, why not change the deck to smtg like oath? 

Yeah, that's the plan for the next tournament, in about 5 or 7 weeks. Have made some major changes to this deck btw. Will post list tomorrow.

[Bone]

 i have to agree, but if the meta has just so many aggro decks running around that the list almost seems to need StP and Bolts, why not change the deck to smtg like oath? 

Yeah, that's the plan for the next tournament, in about 5 or 7 weeks. Have made some minor changes to this deck btw. Will post list tomorrow.

Spells {17}
4 Æther Vial
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Skullclamp
2 Rancor

Creatures {23}
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Ronom Unicorn
1 Kami of the Ancient Law
3 Vexing Shusher
2 Jotun Grunt

Lands {20}
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
3 Taiga
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland

Removed Stingscourger and True Believer (feel they are more SB material). Added 3 Vexing Shusher because there are some Chalice in my meta and if they Null Rod then hardcasting needs to be done. Added 2 Rancor for the more aggro route. So I have 2 less creatures in my deck now, but feel rancor is an underplayed card in this format. Turn 1 Wild Nacatl, turn 2 Rancor and attack with a 5/3 trampler Or put Rancor on grunt and you have a 6/4 trampler. And again, card advantage for the win.

[chief]

To be clear, that poster was suggesting that in your meta you should be playing oath instead of RGW beats, not suggesting that you meta your deck more to beat oath.

[Bone]

To be clear, that poster was suggesting that in your meta you should be playing oath instead of RGW beats, not suggesting that you meta your deck more to beat oath.

Yeah, I know http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36981.0

[honestabe]

This deck seems like it would be very annoying to play against, but perhaps some creature removal...