WGB aggro

[Guli]

With Knight you most likely want to play with lots of fetchlands and maybe even fastbond/exploration. I think Vinelasher Kudzu might be worth the slots.

Tarmogoyf/Vinelasher Kudzu/Knight of the Reliquary are all dinosaurs. Nimble Mongoose might be the one drop that you want to play considering the loam/bazaar engine.

If you want to play all these guys you will need spells to disrupt. Orim's chant seems like a very strong time walk. You will most likely deal a great deal of damage with your fatties. Also you want some effective answers against combo so Orim is good in here. Mox diamond is also a good fit but it doesn't like Null Rod. And null rod is another great disruption piece. Maybe it should be played anyway. You will have plenty of mana from the lands you cast and play. And if the rod is useless pitch it to bazaar.


EDIT (concrete list):

4x tarm
4x Knight
4x Kudzu

4x Orim's chant
4x Null Rod
1x Strip Mine
1x Crop Rotation

4x Bazaar
4x Life from the loam
4x rifstone portal
4x Mox Diamond
4x exploration
1x Fastbond
3x Emerald/Pearl/Lotus

2x Plains
2x Forest
3x Savannah
4x Windswepth
3x Wooded footh

The disruption is a bit on the low side, only Rod and Orim. But they are effective in what they suppose to do. And they are great tempo cards which this deck can really abuse with the high power creatures.

[the boogie man]

Why not play chalice over rod? With bazaar, chalice is free, so you don't have to choose between laying disruption and digging itself out of lackluster hands. And rod + disadvantage mox really rubs me the wrong way. At least this way you can play the mox before the chalice, and then still toss the useless ones to bazaar.

I also don't think that vinelasher kudzu. If you don't get it early enough, they seem to really suck. I personally love terravore. it get so huge and has trample. and if it gets bounced, it comes back just as big. That means you can cut exploration, which never is good as i want it to be.

And you are running 29 mana sources. With so many graveyard based cards it makes sense. But have you thought about replacing some of the basics/fetches with mishras factory? you could have recurable blockers on command with knight and life from the loam. And I would cut crop rotation. If that gets countered your usually up the creek (creak?).

how do you deal with counterspells? You dont run wasteland (which would be one of my main incentives to run a lftl deck) to slow them down, and your disruption stops at orims chant. At least gaddock teeg would stop tendrils and force, and is pretty good with your strategy.

What is saffi erikdotter good for? I saw another list playing it, and I really just have no clue. does it combo with mulldrifter?

[nineisnoone]

Don't Exploration and Mox Diamond (and as noted, Mox Diamond and Null Rod) work at cross purposes?

To add a little more substance... I skipping Black is a mistake.  I would feel the deck would be vastly improved by -4 Vinelasher -4 Chant +4 Dark Confidant + 4 Duress.  Also, I think if you really want the acceleration you could just play a BOP or a Noble Heirach or Spirit Guide.

@ Boogie.  Are you talking about my list?  It's admittedly the 59-60 card.  But it mostly is just there to do what it does... keep a disruption creature on the board against a wipe spell.  Sometimes, it's useful to generically to recur a Korlis/Scrapper.  It could probably be a lot of other things, but that's the rationale behind it. (And it does combo with Mulldrifter and the other Evoke creatures)

[BruiZar]

If you're running black and bazaar, I would atleast test this combo.

++

The Unearth on Demon makes it playable, bazaar a retainer and a demon, play retainer, unearth demon, mill deck. Also gets alot of lands in the graveyard for Knight should the milling fail (in case of Gaea's Blessing).

[Guli]

Null Rod is a necessary evil in the deck. The diamond is there to get rifstones in grave and pump your creatures AND get them in faster. Don't make the mistake that thinking that null rod + acceleration in 1 deck is bad. It is not and it does not effect you at all. Having Null Rod on the board keeps you alive for a couple turns. You guys are wrong on this one when you say it mox+rod is bad. In the matches were you need null rod you hardly care about that 1 mox being neutralized.

Orim's chant and Null Rod are strong disruption cards that buy you a lot of time.

The kudzu comes into play as a 1/1. Looks bad on paper but the reality is with so many fetches and exploration it becomes a 6/6 when it attacks the next turn. Exploration is also key for giving that extra type to tarm making him 6/7 instead of 4/5. This deck does not want any fancy things. It just beats you hard with dinosaurs giving you very little time because of the high power of the creatures and cheap casting cost.

Another thing about kudzu is that he grows different than tarm and knight. This is key because this means he has a different weakness than the others making it harder to deal with them as a whole. If you hurt tarm your hurt terravore and most likely knight. But the kuzdu grows from a different part of the engines process. (the first fase when you cast land and fetch while tarm and knight grow in the last part of the engines process when the lands are in the grave.

Mox diamond is important to get a secondary way than bazaar to get lands in your grave. You will have plenty of lands anyway so don't worry about the card 'loss' you get that back in the plenty with loams.

Fastbond and exploration are the real acceleration in here. You basically have a deck making the effect of null rod towards yourself negligible. You don't need wasteland. Try not to forget that you don't want to tutor with knight every turn. On paper you can get entousiastic about his ability but in reality you only tutor when you see it is a strong play otherwise you want him on the front lines dealing 6-8 damage giving your opponent less turns. Crop rotation is your 5th bazaar and pumps every creature in the deck. It can get that strip lock etc... How can you not play it that would not be wise. I assure you the things that are getting countered are the creatures but 1 always slips through and the engine makes sure that more are on the way and meanwhile you deny them mana with rod and (if you can get it) strip. Mostly that strip comes soon with crops, knights, loams and bazaars.

HOWEVER, making room for terravore still sounds viable in a deck like this. Cutting a land or two and maybe a exploration is possible to make room.

4x tarm
4x Knight
3x Kudzu
3x Terravore

4x Orim's chant
4x Null Rod
1x Strip Mine
1x Crop Rotation
1x Maze of Ith

4x Bazaar
4x Life from the loam
3x rifstone portal
4x Mox Diamond
3x exploration
1x Fastbond
3x Emerald/Pearl/Lotus

2x Plains
2x Forest
2x Savannah
4x Windswepth
3x Wooded footh

[the boogie man]

I just think that exploration is bad. this deck is something like 50% mana, so there is a pretty high chance that 3-4 cards in hand are mana. Which do you do first? lay rod or kudzu? mox loses you a card, and then null rod shuts it down. bazaar is also card disadvantage. You don't start recovering cards until you have the loam engine going.

Plus, I think that wastelands + terravore is a better combo than kuzu + exploration. Even if they bounce him, he stays the same. And if they nuke your graveyard, he still has their graveyard. I also like how he is good even if you play 1 land a turn. How is kudzu when you top deck him? he seems good when your deck is running perfectly, but what about when it isn't? terravore is huge pretty much all of the time. and tramples!

If null rod is really necessary, I guess pithing needle could be  good in this deck. You could name wastelands if you really don't want to run them, plus vault/key, tez, welder, transmuter, tormod's crypt, relic of progenitus etc.

[Miaou]

Guli, I really am not trying to bash the deck or anything, but make constructive criticism from playing a deck with little brokeness. You have 9 disruption spells (Rod, Chant and Strip Mine). That means that most of the time you will only see one for the first turns. Every competitve deck will be able to deal with one of those threats I think (combo the turn after Chant, bounce Null Rod, etc.), or just race you with a tutor for Tinker -> DSC (which you do not have an answer to).

So what I think you need is more disruption. As stated above, the Kudzu guy seems really lackluster especially when compared to Goyf, Knight and Terravore. That's 12 huge guys to beat down with. That is more than enough and probably too much. Sure they give your opponents less turns, but they don't really stop him from executiong his game plan at all. One thing that has worked out well for me is Seal of Primordium. It is very versatile, stops Time Vault (they usually need a Yawgmoth's Will to get it back), and makes your Goyfs bigger. I would see these instead of the Explorations and Fastbond.

G/W also offers really good disruptive creatures as you know, so while they may not be as synergetic with the rest of your deck, I do think they are necessary so that you can slow down the opponent and execute your game plan.

Anyways, that is without testing this particular deck, but playing one similar. I would always lose playing big beats if I played them before my disruption, so keep that in mind Good luck with the deck, it does look fun!

[the boogie man]

Why not run gaddock teeg? he is combo and force hate, in the colors, and a creature. You could replace kudzu with 3 of him, + 1 mishras factory (which is awesome with lftl, and I think that you should have more.).

You run so many rifstone portal. Why so many basics? And fetches? With portal, you could be playing 4 factories and 5 strips, and still have perfect mana. and seal of primordium would take care of leyline and stuff need be.

[Guli]

Exploration is not a very strong card in most decks, i will not argue on that note. But in here it allows you to gain tempo and dual strip.

I WANT you guys to bash my idea, this is not my deck at all btw I am just testing it and suggesting it. Bashing is good it will make people think. As long as it stays positive bashing. Don't expect me to sleep bad over the bashing, as long as you back it up.

On the on-line testing the creatures were always HUGE. In fact the creatures were so huge that the Oath could not rely on his Oath creatures at all, mine are bigger.

You rarely use your draw phase in this deck. You always dredge and your draw is bazaar. The mana fixing with diamonds/rifts allows you to do this without missing a land drop (that gives mana). You are seeing a lot of cards with the engine.

Kudzu could be replaced I am open to that idea. He does become huge though for only 2 mana investment. I don't want to exaggerate with the creatures either. But you do more than one because they are getting countered or destroyed.

I think this deck is pretty fast. The more disruptive creatures have a power of 2. Their game plan is somewhat different, i played a lot with canonist/teeg versions. What I am suggesting here is more like taking a lot of time walks with Null Rod/Orim and beat them hard to a very low life count asap.

Thing is you do have to invest into something those first couple of turns. Running all kinds of good ideas (teeg is a good idea, seal is good,...) doesn't mean you can cast them all. Maybe it is a good idea to ADD chalice to the disruption package instead of replacing Null Rod with chalice.

So my suggestion is to drop big fatties ASAP and combine them with ROD/ORIM. This is a very straightforward game plan I agree and not very typical to myself. Chalice is not as hard as Null Rod imho. I consider Null Rod as a time walk given you are playing certain match ups. Orim IS a walk especially with big guys on your side. If someone can come up with a harder disruption piece than chalice I would be glad. Something that will give more time(,walk).

I will drop the less attractive ideas as soon as something really luring pops up (adding blue maybe? for time walk/DA/A recall ? )

[nineisnoone]

Another thing about kudzu is that he grows different than tarm and knight. This is key because this means he has a different weakness than the others making it harder to deal with them as a whole. If you hurt tarm your hurt terravore and most likely knight. But the kuzdu grows from a different part of the engines process. (the first fase when you cast land and fetch while tarm and knight grow in the last part of the engines process when the lands are in the grave.

But that's fairly irrelevant because Kudzu is own by the ubiquitous 1 main deck bounce card. 

Even assuming they hit the graveyard to deal with Terravore/Knight/Tarm (and I don't know why they wouldn't address them the same way they'd address normal creatures), with Bazaar, fetch lands, etc etc it is infinitely easier to build those cards back up again.

I just don't see the rational for excluding a 3rd color for more disruption. 

[the boogie man]

Im not sure what blue would do for you. drawing cards seems like a waste of time (mostly because your deck is focussed around several disadvantageous cards). lets say you lay a land, play exploration (which is only good with more lands in hand or loam), play another land, then im assuming pass the turn, or play mox, discarding a land, and playing a 2cc threat. if it's null rod, you are at 2 mana, 1 exploration, 1 null rod, and 1 card in hand. if it's kudzu, you still only have a 1/1 and 1 card in hand. how do you recover from counterspells?

Kudzu just seems to suck. early game, you want to keep the opponent from bashing your head in, and late game, there are much better beater. outside of a fantastic draw, it seems very underwhelming. And they require the marginal-at-best exploration to be really good.

if i was to build the deck, this is generally what it would look like:

Aggro-loam

3 wasteland
1 strip mine
4 windswept heath
4 bazaar
3 savanah
3 rifstone portal
2 mishras factory
2 basics

4 mox diamond
2 on-color mox
1 lotus

4 orim's chant/abeyance (which would allow you to dredge and prevent spells).
4 chalice
3-4 seal of primordium

3-4 life from the loam
4 tarmogoyf
3 gaddock teeg
3 knight of the reliquary
3 terravore

and fill out the rest with something. Have you tried eternal witness? She seems pretty good at getting back dredged guys, and combos with chant/abeyance.

I think that the deck needs black, though. duress effects are really helpful keeping you alive early game, and ravens crime seems brutal. Just for a couple cards, and mox diamond would make the splash easy. I think that that would improve this deck by a lot. Then you could toy around with unearth, which I like a lot. It's probably not that good, though.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

Im sorry for dredging this topic back up but with the addition of Qasali I wanted to explore this more:

3 Wasteland
1 Strip mine
4 Windswept heath
4 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Bayou
2 Forest
5 Petal/Lotus/Pearl/Jet/Emerald

4 Null Rod
2 Thorn of Amethyst - These work well on their own but even better with a recurring strip mine, Aven, Knight, Null Rod
2 Life from the Loam - I like the synergy between Thorn, Null Rod, Knight, Aven
1 Demonic Tutor - targets stripmine almost always or edict
4 Diabolic Edict - Tinker/Oath insurance

3 Rancor - with 8 Exalted critters its not rare to be attacking for 5 or more turn 2.  Could be Goyf but I like the explosiveness
3 Aven Mindcensor - Tinker insurance - works well to combat search lands, evades with rancored, exalted strength
3 Gaddock Teeg - solid 2-drop
3 Knight of the Reliquary - gives the deck a solid beat stick mid and late game, helps lock them out
4 Dark Confidant - solid 2-drop
4 Qasali Pridemage - solid 2-drop
4 Noble Hierarch - yeah I cant take advantage of the blue, but I like exalted too much not to include, critical to the deck.

Noteably - if I can play a 2-drop turn one - I do not play Hierarch till the second turn (hopefully dropping wasteland or stripmine turn 2 as well).   Forests are key to playing Hierarch early and being able to cast LotL or K Grip from the SB.  She's a key play to this deck.  This deck focuses on mana denial primarily, supporting this with key SB cards against the major arch types.


SB
4 Krosan Grip - Oath
4 Yixlid Jailer - Ichorid
2 Duress - Combo/Tezz
2 Thoughtseize - Combo/Aggro decks/Tezz
3 Swords to Plowshares  - Aggro/DSC/Goyf

[JudasKilled]

I think aven mindcensor is a house, its absolutely retarded againt a large chunk of the format.

fetches, tutors, tinker, tezz, everything

there are very few match ups its a dead card, dredge and shop, thats about it.

After winning a a time walk and a library with a naya deck that runs mindcensor in the last 3 weeks its 1 card I would NEVER cut.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

did you run it as a 3 or 4-of?

[Guli]

You should not doubt an important card like Aven in the current meta, meaning definitely 4x alongside 4x Null Rod.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

roger that.  upping the count to four pushes my 3cc cards over six.  do you think its worth running 2 knights?

[Guli]

The knights, ... I don't know for sure if they should be in the list. I tested them myself when they just came out. They were always big but it was still a 3 mana investment. I think just adding a couple is not really the way to go with a card like Knight of the R. The deck could be kinda build around the knight giving him a personal toolbox package like strip mine, maze of ith, tabernacle,Glacial Chasm, mishras, bazaar,.... etc etc depending on the goals of the deck you can create a toolbox. You also add a crop rotation to the deck. Adding 2 means you welcome the knight but don't really need it to win, so you can cut it all together because he won't be able to stop any win conditions without further compromising the deck to make knight stronger.

I would use the slots you use to add rancor, Knight of the Reliquary, Life from the Loam to up the count of Aven, Thorn of Amethyst to 4. That way you will see those cards more consistently. I would also add Elvish Spirit guide to have stronger turn 1's or turn 2's. You might want to add a couple of selkie to have additional draw next to the confidant OR you can go with Ohran Viper to answer Inkwell. More acceleration means more explosive hands which is good but you want to refill that hand.

Overall solid creatures in the list. I see teeg, aven, qasali, dark confidant. These are effective creatures but they need support. I would also consider Tarmogoyf even if you have exalted. Exalted is an OPTION and is good in the aggro matchup as a tactical weapon. Exalted is not for the control match up were you really would like a Tarm to give them lesser turns to find their answers. I see you don't use Canonist, sure that is possible he is answered easily anyway by rebuild and hurk recall, but use Tarm instead. Comparing Tarm with Canonist might not be clear but cards like Tarm, Confidant and Canonist may seem very different but they play similar roles. They don't answer the threats directly like TeeG or Aven but they put a different kind of clock (time related) on the opponent.

Rod, Edict, Aven, TeeG, Confidant, Tarm these are the cards you want to play. Not necessarily together in every deck you can innovate and you did but I would not put a card like Rancor above Tarm unless you can find room.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

OK - heres a revised list based on your suggestions.  I didnt go with ESG as I have 5 pieces of artifact acceleration and kept the Hierarchs.  Id like to add a couple of Ohran Vipers - what to cut?  One thorn and one Teeg?

4 Thorns
4 Null Rod
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Qasali Pridmage
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Noble Hierarch

5 Strips
5 Jet, Pearl, Jet Petal, Lotus
4 Savannah
2 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland


SB
4 Yixlid Jailer
4 Krosan Grip
2 Duress
2 THoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares

[Guli]

How did you fit all that in 1 deck? That is a nice job on itself.

So you have 2 slots left. 2 more card drawers making the amount 6?

2x Cold-eye Selkie?

2x Ohran Viper?

You might need Vexing Shusher in this list though. To protect against Chalice of the void that is set @2. I would even cut TeeG and use Chalice myself. In fact the list you are using is very similar to the one I created with these colors. The problem I had is the mana base but I tend to be a little bit too scared according to some when in comes to the mana base.

The list you just posted is good.

I would add 4x Shusher though. You will see how great they are against control and chalice.

// Lands
    4  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    3  Savannah
    3  Bayou
    4  Windswept Heath
    1  Forest

// Creatures
    3  Gaddock Teeg
    3  Tarmogoyf
    4  Qasali Pridemage
    4  Noble Hierarch
    4  Dark Confidant
    4  Aven Mindcensor
    3  Vexing Shusher -1
    2 Cold-Eye Selkie +2
    2  Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
    4 Diabolic Edict
    4  Null Rod
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Black Lotus
    3 Thorn of Amethyst -1

SB
4 Yixlid Jailer
4 Krosan Grip
2 Duress
2 THoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares[/quote]

It is tight, Elvish Spirit does really make you faster though and doesn't care about Null Rod like your moxes do. (maybe jet isn't needed? use ESG?) Can't find room for 2 additional drawers. Not really super needed anyway. You want to put pressure, confidants should be enough.

BTW I like the thorns! They can be just as effective as chalice against storm. (and maybe better, depends) With Teeg main deck thorns are interesting.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

Chalice for 2 hurts - main reason for Krosan in the board actually.  Shusher will be heavily considered - the thing is, I put Thorn in the MD in his place. Id consider dropping Confidant for Shusher....   

In the control/combo match, I will not be the beatdown deck.  This will have to come out in testing but I think Shusher is for the beatdown role as he actively makes my lock pieces come down whereas Thorn reinforcing the control deck role by disrupting their deck.  Slots in the deck up for replacing are Goyf and Confidant.  I know this will not sit well - but I really like going Qasali turn one, Hierarch turn 2, attach Rancor on Qasali > attack for 6 turn 2 (or for 5 with some other 2-drop in place of Qasali).  Goyf just doesnt get that big that fast on turn 2.  Love Confidant but may replace with Shusher - as a control player which of there two creature would you rather NOT see...?  Not to mention, this change up would relieve the mana base somewhat.  Edict and Yixlid are necessary.

Thorn helps out against combo and mana-less Ichorid (fights their hate cards).

A noobe question though - Does Thorn push 3cc spells up to 4cc as far as Teeg is concerned?  I dont think  it does....

Out of the cards in the Main Deck - which 4-of do you think is the weakest?

[Guli]

I would not cut Confidants for Shusher, the last list i posted is a good place to start, it packs the cards you want, it has the acceleration and it has a small draw engine with 4x Confidant. But it still needs tweaks and testings to see if you can cut a land or add a land here and there. To see how things work out you know.

I also like the Thorns, I never really tried them out intensively myself but I think they can really play an important role against many decks. And playing so many creatures maybe Thorns should be an auto add. Without blue there is no daze or stifle, but without blue there are usually more bears as well replacing the counter magic. This has some cons and some advantages. Blue is usually free (force/daze/misd) and needs less acceleration because they can play out their resources in combination with each other. For these colors I think acceleration (not noble, he actually slows you down at first, kinda like Vial does) is called for and I mean ESG with acceleration in order to have stronger early turns. There is no point in having threats in your hand if you never were able to play them out. There is a word for that; dead cards.

We have to be careful though. Too many acceleration could thin out the threats as well. You don't want to burn out too quickly either. That is why you NEED confidants and maybe even a couple Cold-Eye Selkie to maximize the chance to see at least 1 drawer during the course of the game.

Without a serious draw engine you can't afford to get your bears or disruption pieces drained/forced. You have Shusher and Gaddock get your stuff through. (I also like Thorn in this respect) I prefer to play Shusher/Chalice instead of Shusher/TeeG because I can play out Chalice free early in combination with other threats and later on I can set higher numbers without fear of locking myself out. You have to make the choice for yourself here. It is hard to tell which one is stronger, depends on match up and situation.

That goes for other cards as well. The key is to be able to understand the cards you play and have a good game plan with your pile. I am sure fish is a lot stronger in the hands of a magic god. But they prefer to play mana drains.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

Im leery about putting ESG into a 3 color deck - my list has the same amount of acceleration as Steve's GW Beatdown deck.  I added the Hierearch as a way to smooth the mana base as it is this deck's weakest link.   If I can play a 2-drop turn one, I do.  Otherwise Hierarch comes down turn 2.  She can slow you down you dont play her right.

I do like the Thorns as well - they really serve to support the mana denial strategy, and is also one of the broadest hate cards available.  I looked at Rootmaze and Children of Korlis as well - I liked thorns colorlessness.  The downside is - more blue decks are packing Hurkl's recall to deal with Inkwell nowadays.  I may go back to Children of Korlis, Rootmaze was too difficult, I need to run the search lands.

Id like to add Shusher but the double G puts a lot of stress on a weak mana base.   I would cut 2 cards and replace for Selkie though - I like drawing more cards than protecting the ones I do draw.  2 cards is easy enough and reinforces a them already iin the deck.

[Guli]

A card that is kinda forgotten but can finish the game on the spot or at the least the next turn is Mirror Entity. In decks with a lot of creatures he might be better than tarmogoyf when we talk about clock.

Also interesting might be the synergy with nobles. You tap for +1/+1 boost for each noble and if you attack with a single creature it will give another +1/+1 for the exalted. Usually you have a power of 2 anyway and at least 2 lands so that automatically means 2/2 to start with. I like turning mana into damage. It reminds me at shades. I can see pro arguments to play Mirror over Tarm in a deck filled with nobles and 2 power bears.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

hmmm  interesting - in a pinch i could use zero mana to send a him to the GY to remove a bridge against Ichorid. Plain craziness would be to send all my bears to the GY followed by Balance when theres an Inkwell or some other nastiness across the board.

Stax could be an issue with this deck - i need to test it.  Ive been swapping 4x Thorns for 2x Kataki and 2x STPs.

If I were to add Mirror Entity though - Id go back to the Knight of the Reliquary option instead - he gets strips and wastes and generally helps with beats and mana

[Guli]

Mirror entity finishes the game very quickly. If it resolves against a deck that doesn't use mana denial you will have plenty mana and you can convert that mana into damage trough your creatures and this usually means lethal damage say you have 3-4 bears and 4-5 mana. That is 12-20 damage.Worst case likely will have a noble an utility bear and mirror swinging for 12 damage. So it gives the opponent very little time, tarm usually swings for 3-4-5 which is considerably less.

[Harlequin]

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Wethered Wayfayer
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vinelash Kudzu

4 Null Rod
4 Orim's Chant
2 Aura of Silence
2 Abolish

1 Enlightend Tutor
4 Exploration
1 Fastbond
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Life from the Loam

4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
3 Plains
4 Savanah
3 Lotus, Pearl, Emerald

2 Bazaar
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Stripmine
1 Wasteland

What about something like that?  Its a bit more emphasis on land tutoring with less redundancy.  I think you could get things moving fairly quickly.  Also this allows you to make inifiite draw/mana using Glacial Chasm, Fastbond, Waste/Strip, and Horizon Canopy.  With that you can make an infinitely large Kudzu and pass the turn with having no lands, you having multiple rods + aura with like tripple Orims chant, AND a gigantic kudzu or two.

[Miaou]

My biggest problem with the decks posted is that they don't really do anything until turn 2. While Noble Hierarch is nice especially against Stax for the extra on color mana/permanent, I just don't think he does enough. That is why I would rather be playing ESG in that slot if I were using your decklist. However, even better than the ESGs is in my opinion Duress. It's a great first turn play as it allows you to see opponents hand therefor knowing in which order to play your disruption, and it takes away a key card. In these colors, I can't see a stronger regular first turn play (this means in hands without Lotus/Mox...).
I do like the creature package though (not counting Hierarch ). The Edicts are spot on, to answer Leviathan, so that is all good. While I do think that Thorn of Amethyst is a nice fit to the deck, I also believe that other options are stronger. Which is why it doesn't make the cut in my deck. Speaking of which, here it is:

16 Spells
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Null Rod

22 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Qasali Pridmage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Aven Mindcensor

22 Mana
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
3 Jet, Petal, Lotus
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Wasteland/Mox Pearl/Mox Emerald/Forest/Plains <- haven't decided yet, need to test.

About the list: as I said I believe Duress effects to be a very strong first turn play which is why I have so many. However this means that you need a swamp on turn one. In order to minimize the effect of Wastelands (which are very present where I play) I decided to include a basic Swamp. I've had alot of trouble with starting the turn with a Bayou to get a Duress off, then get it wasted, and because of that get slowed down for a few turns. That means that all the nice white or green guys will not be playable until turn 3. Which is why I decided to include Tidehollow Sculler. Along with Confidant and Null Rods, they are a strong turn 2 play that I can cast using my Swamp, and then follow up with the multicolored guys. Last thing about the Swamp, is that against Fish or other decks running Wastelands, you are able to get off your Edicts which are pretty usefull.
I would be using a Forest and a Plains in the SB to help combat Blood Moon which sees alot of play here too. If I played in a different meta with less non-basic land hate, I would probably drop the basics alltogether and the deck would be much stronger.

[Kaiser von Hugal]

Thanks for the feedback - I do like your Duress effects.  But....    the weakness to my version was committing to Black too much - it stresses my mana base too thin.  Ive found decks are Tier one capable of the OOPs I win play or....   they dominate the opponents mana base - constricting them like a python and applying pressure with bears.  I do not want to compete against a 4 FOW's 4 Manadrains and 4 Duress effects using the same ammunition - this deck wont win that fight.  Youre right in identifying Thorn as the weak link - I chose it because its colorless, alleviating stress to an already stretched and vulnerable manabase.  Cards Im looking at for the Thorn slot are:

4 Children of Korlis - helps against Ichorid and Tendrils based decks
4 Rancor - speeds the deck up alot stealing turns for them to react to my permanents
4 ESG - same as Rancor allows multiple threats to come down quicker
4 Ethersworn Canonist - silver bullet against Storm Decks and beats
3 Kataki and 1 Trinisphere - stresses their manabase further

Simply dropping one Thorn for Trinishpere is an option as well - would be nice to have one active restricted card in the deck lol.

Im liking ESG Rancor and the Kataki options the best as they offer the broadest coverage against the most decks.  Thorns are dead against Stax.

[Miaou]

Seeing your decklist, I would really incorporate 4 ESGs. Be it in the Thorn of Amethyst slot or the Hierarch (which I really don't like in this build ). Just so that you can actually get to cast some disruption first turn. If you are on the draw with no mox, then you are giving them two turns unmolested. That can't be good!

And you are totally right about the Duress effects hurting the mana base, it is the decks biggest weakness in my eyes However against drain decks which do not run Wastelands, I think the build is solid. It does suffer against fish decks for example though, since your best beaters are in white and green...

[Guli]

Sure the mana base COULD be fragile but the list is indeed solid, i have to agree. And it go me thinking, maybe the mana base could become black with swamps. You can keep sculler, aven, tarm which should be enough supported by mana denial + duress effects.The Qasali can be replaced with Seals this was proved to be a strong choice in the past.

Look at the cards, dures, thought, confi, sculler, that is a lot of black swamps may be prudent.

For example; LIST MOVED TO COUPLE POST LATER

it is a mobile list