Is type 1 fun anymore and is 60 cards enough?

[Webster]

OK. So here is my question- you are good at magic, and have had success.  why do you frequent a vintage site, and play vintage?

I frequent many sites; TMD is just one of them. I play vintage because I enjoy it. I know exactly what I want to get out of this game, and vintage is one of the means.

you just said there are no rewards.

What I said is, "There is no reward for entering the format that a different format can't match." There is a big difference.

Why does someone like LSV play vintage, when he obviously is doing so well in other formats with much better prize support?

At the end of the magic workweek, the weekend allows for one to enjoy their hobbies. Compared to non-eternal formats, vintage is a lazy Sunday afternoon watching football; someone can take part in it when there's time to take off their shoes and relax.

Maybe I stated my question poorly. Why are standard, extended, draft and block players not graduating at some point to vintage?

The tangible benefits of non-eternal formats outweigh the subjective benefits of vintage.

[Yare]

The barrier to entry is ultimately the problem here, at least relative to other formats.

We allow proxies, but that means that there isn't as much at stake, and more importantly, that the format can't really get going with Wizards. If we disallow proxies, we get the support of WotC, but nobody will play because an insufficient number of people will have the cards to field a competitive deck.

[ChemEng]

Whats stopping you from playing 80 cards now?

[Troy_Costisick]

If competitive vintage tournaments still exist in 2 years, I will be really surprised.

What, you think decks will be too broken by then?  I have to be skeptical about that.  In fact, in two years the economy should be much improved and I would not be surprised to see record attendance at a SCG P9 or similar event (if they hold one again in Indy or Chicago). 

[Juggernaut GO]

Nah, I see two things:

1: Attendance continuing to decline around the USA to a point where no T.O. will take the time to hold any more vintage events. 

2: More and more people leaving the format, and not being replaced by new players.


Im not certain that type 1 will die all together, but I will be really surprised if it rebounds from the downturn it had this year.

[honestabe]

This would however, make certain Decks, such as Oath of Druids ineffective, and the odds o Drawing the card needed to win would be 20:1

[jcb193]

Steve has PROMISED that T1 will be around in two years, and I would love to believe that.  However, looking at one bit of empyrical evidence (T1 card sales on ebay) this is hard to defend.  T1 card sales are down at least 25-30% on the major cards.  Cards that have other environmental uses (duals, Mishra's, etc) seem to hold a little better, but at least regarding card costs, 2007 and 2006 seem to be the heyday.

I would think this is somewhat relevent, as it is strictly based on demand.

[LordHomerCat]

Steve has PROMISED that T1 will be around in two years, and I would love to believe that.  However, looking at one bit of empyrical evidence (T1 card sales on ebay) this is hard to defend.  T1 card sales are down at least 25-30% on the major cards.  Cards that have other environmental uses (duals, Mishra's, etc) seem to hold a little better, but at least regarding card costs, 2007 and 2006 seem to be the heyday.

I would think this is somewhat relevent, as it is strictly based on demand.

That may also have to do with economic reasons and currency exchange rates.  You can't just claim it all is because Type 1 is dying, as there are a lot of other factors that complicate things.  I believe there will still be vintage in the USA in 2 years and I don't see any good reason to assume otherwise.

[Smmenen]

At the very least, there will be the Vintage Championship at Gencon, as they have three more paintings to give away!   That alone refutes the notion that Vintage - and competitive Vintage tournaments -- will cease to exist in two years. 

[Tha Gunslinga]

Steve has PROMISED that T1 will be around in two years, and I would love to believe that.  However, looking at one bit of empyrical evidence (T1 card sales on ebay) this is hard to defend.  T1 card sales are down at least 25-30% on the major cards.  Cards that have other environmental uses (duals, Mishra's, etc) seem to hold a little better, but at least regarding card costs, 2007 and 2006 seem to be the heyday.

I would think this is somewhat relevent, as it is strictly based on demand.

Prices are about the same as they have been over the last year or two, as far as I've seen.

[LordHomerCat]

At the very least, there will be the Vintage Championship at Gencon, as they have three more paintings to give away!   That alone refutes the notion that Vintage - and competitive Vintage tournaments -- will cease to exist in two years. 

Technically it's not at Gencon anymore =p

[Smmenen]

At the very least, there will be the Vintage Championship at Gencon, as they have three more paintings to give away!   That alone refutes the notion that Vintage - and competitive Vintage tournaments -- will cease to exist in two years. 

Technically it's not at Gencon anymore =p

It's not? Or are you confusing the fact that the Vintage Champs was at US Nat's this year to celebrate Magic's 15th Anniversary?  The home for the Vintage Champs is Gencon.  This year was an exception to that rule.

[jcb193]

Steve has PROMISED that T1 will be around in two years, and I would love to believe that.  However, looking at one bit of empyrical evidence (T1 card sales on ebay) this is hard to defend.  T1 card sales are down at least 25-30% on the major cards.  Cards that have other environmental uses (duals, Mishra's, etc) seem to hold a little better, but at least regarding card costs, 2007 and 2006 seem to be the heyday.

I would think this is somewhat relevent, as it is strictly based on demand.

Prices are about the same as they have been over the last year or two, as far as I've seen.

Not for anything other than unlimited and maybe chinese.  Alpha, Beta, FBB, FOIL, casual, restricted cards are all down about 25-30% over 2007.  I sell these types of cards every Dec.  I'm sure economic conditions and exchange rates have some effect, but I was merely stating that this is not a great thing.  Also, traffic on this forum is nothing like what it used to be.

That said, of course Vintage won't be gone in two years. It will probably be around forever in some form.  But as much as I hate to say it, I think it might have peaked (popularity wise) in 2003 to 2006?  Which is too bad, because the infrastructure, support and format is probably better than it has ever been. 

[Demagogue]

While the points on economic value of Vintage cards is fully valid one has to take into account a few things that I think we are missing...

1.) How heavily does economic issues affect Vintage compared to other formats?

- Quite drastically, not only are the cards far more expensive but they aren't mandatory. As far as I have seen Standard, Extended, and Legacy don't offer any sort of proxy quota, not only that but all of those see sanctioned tournament play that requires you to own all the cards in the deck you play.

We can all agree that 100+ dollars USD and not mandatory is much less likely to sell than 20-30+ dollars USD and mandatory (That can be used in multiple formats and helps you stay in proxy limits).

2.) What is the stagnation of Vintage cards compared to Standard, Extended, and Legacy?

- While Vintage has it's minor changes once a player buys most of the cards they need, they are good to go. You only ever need to buy a moxen once, and/or win it. Where as in a format like Standard the change is far more mandatory.

Lets look at it this way, both Grindstone and Reflecting Pool were dollar rares before they found new uses. Now both sit around the 20+ dollar line... This price isn't simply because they found use but also because they weren't cards people kept around, there just wasn't to much reason to hold onto that Grindstone or Pool until it found new use or was reprinted, by which point no one had it and everyone wanted it, hence the huge price hop. The same can't be said for Moxens, unless they become unrestricted and everyone needs a play set then.


Just a few things to keep in mind.