UWB Fish

[nineisnoone]

Been obsessed with tempo decks lately.... decided to try back to the more traditional colors of UWB.

2 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Scrubland
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Null Rod

4 Cursecatcher
4 Tidehallow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Negator

1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
2 Shadow of Doubt
1 Echoing Truth
3 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
3 Energy Flux
3 Martyr of Bones
3 Bitterblossom
3 Threads of Disloyalty
3 Chains of Mephistopheles

Why go white over green?

You basically trade a clock for more disruption.  Meddling Mage when combined with Duress basically becomes a Duess with legs and then some.  Tidehallow is a Duress with legs.  With that in mind I had to go to a black disruption package over blue, but I have been leaning that direction in my BUG lists anyways. 

No Cannonists?  Honestly, I haven't liked it too much with Duress.  I'd rather run a blue disruption package with him, so maybe if I go for a UW fish/still or something.

Bitterblossom is kind of an optional card, but it can hold back aggro all day and functionally removes a counter off Smokestax.  In addition to that it serves as a win condition if not dealt with and avoids normal creature removal.

Bitterblossom is cut if I need to put the Thoughtseize in against Combo/Control

Swords come in for Stifles if I'm going against Aggro or Oath.

Not sure what the last spot should be.

Edit:  Put Duress main.... Thoughtseize + Bitterblossom + Dark Confidant actually hurts.

[FadeToBlack]

Force of Will?

Also, if your going to run Blossom, I'd really consider running Spellstrutter Sprite (like maybe in the Stifle slot).

[nineisnoone]

I would if I could, but not enough blue to support it. 

Never had much luck with the Sprite....  I don't think I'd cut stifle for it because that's part of the mana denial package.  But I hadn't really considered how much better it gets with Bitterblossom.... I'll have to think about that one...

Added a Maze of Ith for DSC.

[the boogie man]

24 mana seems kind of high, I usually run 21-22, maybe 23 if I run 3cc cards.

How are the black tutors? Fish decks are really redundant, so I usually find them lackluster. demonic usually costs me most of a turn, and I usually dont like the card advantage tutors. But demonic consult is something I never really considered. Its really cheap and instant speed tutoring.

I really think that if you run blue, you should definately go with force. You run close to enough blue cards anyway. If I were to add force, I think I'd go -1 duress, -1 fetch, -1 Scrubland, -1 demonic.

I also agree on the spellstutter sprite. But I think it should go in the mage spot. Mage is personally one of my favorite cards of all time, but it seems average in this meta. The guessing game game 1 is an issue, It slows down ichorid a little, but it is 2 colors, and with vault-key and whatnot, a lot of people are cheating cards into play via welder, tezz, and even vial sometimes.

With forces, I would reconsider cannonist. You have a lot going on every turn when you get things going, like bitter blossom and confidant. Spellstutter is also pretty good with cannonist, countering a spell and creating a threat. and tidehollow sculler is playable through cannonist, which could be a big adavntage.

[nineisnoone]

24 mana seems kind of high, I usually run 21-22, maybe 23 if I run 3cc cards.

I'll probably cut some eventually.  At the moment, I'm simply not counting the Waste/Strip's as lands since most my spells require colored mana.

How are the black tutors? Fish decks are really redundant, so I usually find them lackluster. demonic usually costs me most of a turn, and I usually dont like the card advantage tutors. But demonic consult is something I never really considered. Its really cheap and instant speed tutoring.

I usually Demonic Tutor for Strip Mine or Maze of Ith so it doesn't cost me anything other than the land drop. Otherwise, I'm looking for Dark Confidant or Bitterblossom.  Those are more long-term cards, so the turn loss isn't that bad since I'm looking to win the long game instead of the short game anyways. Vamp is mostly the same.  Demonic has been solid though I search for Wasteland rather than Strip Mine. 

I really think that if you run blue, you should definately go with force. You run close to enough blue cards anyway. If I were to add force, I think I'd go -1 duress, -1 fetch, -1 Scrubland, -1 demonic.

I run close, but not quite what I normally run.  I would consider it more if I ran a few more blue cards (possible if I cut some lands), but I would probably just add more Thoughtseize's for disruption at the current count.

I also agree on the spellstutter sprite. But I think it should go in the mage spot. Mage is personally one of my favorite cards of all time, but it seems average in this meta. The guessing game game 1 is an issue, It slows down ichorid a little, but it is 2 colors, and with vault-key and whatnot, a lot of people are cheating cards into play via welder, tezz, and even vial sometimes.

One of the advantages to going with Duress/Thoughtseize as your disruption package over Force of Will is that you get to see their hand and then likely figure out what their deck is.  This means you'll know exactly what to call with Meddling Mage.  Key-Vault-Vial shouldn't be much of an issue with Null Rod and 3 tutors to find it. 

One of the downsides I've found to Sprite is that I don't really play instants (though that gives me a notion).  So leaving mana untapped is often just wasteful.  Plus it's not like leaving mana untapped for Mana Drain, you can't be sure that they'll play something you can counter (even if you know they do have it from Duress)

With forces, I would reconsider cannonist. You have a lot going on every turn when you get things going, like bitter blossom and confidant. Spellstutter is also pretty good with cannonist, countering a spell and creating a threat. and tidehollow sculler is playable through cannonist, which could be a big adavntage.

I had a big infatuation with Cannonist in the past, but I've ended up shying away from it in many decks that I thought it was an automatic include.  I've found that it often slowed me down more than I'd like it too.  Sometimes I just want play Duress, Duress.  Other times, the opponent cracks their fetch-land on my upkeep and I don't really want to waste my entire turn just to Stifle it. 

I decided to add to my blue count... but seeing as the addition is going to be In the Eye of the Chaos  Force of Will seems like a poor choice.  (-2 land +2 Chaos)

[Guli]

How are you dealing with dudes with a big body if they slip through. You cut green and have more disruption in return, that is true. But at least use STP maindeck instead of maze of Ith. This way you can attack. I worry about situations were they have 2 tarms and waste your maze. Or something like grim lavamancer. You really need at least 1 STP pre-sideboard to be able to get out of a situation like that. I would run 3-4 STP in a deck like this but that's me crazy.

[nineisnoone]

I originally had Bitterblossom in the main which also deals aggro nicely.  I might go back to it. Really the Swords/Bitterblossom/Thoughtseize are interchangeable depending on what you anticipate in your meta.  They each have their ups and down.  Swords gives me the game against creatures.  Bitterblossom gives me a win condition and helps me stall on the board.  Thoughseize hits combo/control and sometimes creatures.

To be honest, I don't expect to see too much of Grim Lavamancer.  If I did, I probably would run a different deck Grim Lavamancer has always chewed up Fish decks. 

I'm might switch out those In the Eye of Chaos for main deck Threads of Disloyalty though.

Edit:  Changed my DSC answer from Maze to Angelic Seal.  Changed Demonic Tutor to Enlightened Tutor.  Made the aforementioned Chaos -> Disloyalty change. Cut a Mage to add a Third.

EDIT 2:  I feel like I'm trying to be too cute here with Angelic Seal....  Just put the 2 damn Swords in the main with 2 threads.  And 2 more of each in the SB.  4 swords 4 threads 4 bitterblosom seems great post board against aggro.

[Guli]

The list looks very solid now. There are some cards here and there that you could change but that is more taste and not deck changing.

4 Cursecatcher
4 Tidehallow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
3 Meddling Mage

This is a very nice creature base. You duress effects and sculler will cause lots of problems on the opponent unless they can play out there hand super fast or don't care about the duress. Decks that I can come up with that fall into this category are dredgde, tmwa (aggro-sigh) and stax. Against ichorid you have cursecatchers, mages, wastelands, tutors and your SB. I think you will be ok against aggro if you can find a couple STP and keep a confidant around. I don't know for sure but you will have a problematic match against shop / prison. I also don't see a good SB against it. But still it depends on how fast your confi is up and your discard effects did their job. Maybe Kataki or something in the SB or even main deck is interesting with the mana denial strategy, instead of shadows maybe?

Solid build really.

[nineisnoone]

Shadow of Doubt is a good card.  In counters tutors and stifles fetchlands while at the same time it draws a card.  It's a turn slower than Stifle but with Cursecather, Duress, Thoughtseize, Recall I have too many turn 1 plays as is.  Now that I run Swords again I could see removing Shadow (a big part of it was answering Tinker), but I would probably replace them with Stifles or something else that would help with mana denial. 

Shop is a calculated risk but I feel the main deck can handle it well enough.  It's not as strong as it could be, but I don't feel Shop is a good deck to dedicate too many cards towards dealing.  The stronger answer cards are too narrow, you still will lose to the god draw when you are on the draw because you don't have Force of Will, and Shop is a very uneven deck so you occasionally just win when they can't find their Workshop.

That said, here is my analysis of the match-up.  Usually Shop centers around Spheres or Smokestacks with the occasional Chalice and Tangle Wire and always with Crucible.  Black is my basic because it gives me access to my tutors.  Against Spheres being creature and non-storm oriented makes Shop generically weaker.  Obviously if they go crazy and lock you out you lose, but that's just what happens when you don't run FoW.  Smokestacks is also generically weaker when the opponent is naturally putting permanents on the board.  Your tutor target in this case is Dark Confidant to keep the card advantage up and win the permanent war.  Chalice at 2 can be a problem sometimes.Tangle Wire is their best anti-aggro card but I feel that it loses hands down to Bitterblossom. 

Some other comments on the deck.

The main deck is mostly dedicated to destroying the opponent's hand and mana base.  Of course, you can't deal with a top deck with mana + 1 (to get around Cursecatcher).  So the remainder of the board is dedicated to (aside from Ichorid) deal with whatever top deck you would fear the most.  With Null Rod most of the time that is creatures. 4 Swords main that usually is a good against Tinker and Oath (when considering the other disruption effects that assure it getting through) and whatever creature (Tarmogoyf or Negator) that they might run in the sideboard.

However, where there are many creature threats Swords becomes a bit weaker so I choose the Threads of Disloyalty to support it in the sideboard.  Especially in this deck where the best threat I can propose is a 2/2.  Threads is always a 2 for 1 giving me a very efficient answer to creatures.  It also let's me make sub-optimal discards because the better the creature they play the better it is to steal.  It's better than Sower because 4 mana is a bit steep and Sower often just dies and gives the creature back.  Threads is much harder to deal with. 

I realized that against control and combo that they can always just draw themselves back into the game and with many draw spells instant (Thirst and Intuition) or poor discard targets (Deep Analysis and Accumulated Knowledge) I didn't really have a great answer against quick recoveries.  That's where Chains come in.  I ignore (outside of Shadow of Doubt) the effect so it's one sided. There also aren't great answers to it.  Mostly imagine most the only non-artifact bounce they'll have is a lone Chain of Vapor.  And if they have to tutor for it, you have Shadow of Doubt for that.

Again Bitterblossom works against Shop is a win-condition against Combo/Control and is nearly a Moat against aggro.  I would run it in the main deck over Meddling Mage if not for the fact that Bitterblossom hurts you.  Bitterblossom + Dark Confidant + Thoughtseize + Fetch Lands is a lot of damage to be taking.

[Guli]

// Lands
    2  Polluted Delta
    3  Flooded Strand
    2 Underground Sea
    2  Tundra
    2  Scrubland
    1Swamp
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine

// Creatures
    4 Cursecatcher
    4 Tidehollow Sculler
    4 Dark Confidant
    3 Meddling Mage
    3 Kataki, War's Wage

// Spells
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Duress
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    3 Null Rod
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Jet

// Sideboard
SB: 3  Pithing Needle
SB: 3  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Bitterblossom
SB: 3  Threads of Disloyalty
SB: 3  Chains of Mephistopheles

I would suggest something like this.

[nineisnoone]

No way would I cut the Null Rod and Shadows of Doubt for Kataki.... it's legendary it, interferes with my own cards (Rod, Moxen, Tidehallow), and it forces me to search out white which either forces me to get a dual land (and open myself up to Wasteland) or play a plains (which would suck outside of Kataki). 

Null Rod on the other hand is a still very good card against Shop.  They run full mana acceleration, Mudworker, Triskelion, Swords of Fire and Ice... etc.  Plus it's not color dependent so I can still search for my Swamp. 

Shadow of Doubt is cuttable... but only if the card further's the mana denial element.  Kataki is excessive with it and contradictory with it.  Cutting the stifle-effect is to me not an option.  And I worry more about search than storm, so I like Shadow over Stifle. 

I feel that loosening the mana denial element is a mistake with both cards is a mistake.

I could see it in the sideboard, but I wouldn't cut the Bitterblossom for it.  I feel Bitterblossom works well enough against Shop.  It's not great but it's in the color I want, blocks all day, removes a counter from Smokestack, and single handedly beats Tangle Wire.  It's also helps put games away against combo and control as the tokens can quickly get out of hand.

To be honest, I've found Kataki to be lower impact against Shop than I'd like.  Kataki has always worked out for me as "destroy target artifact that the opposing player does not mind losing."  It usually takes a while to get to the ones you really want.  It's really a card that suffers for being legendary.

If I put in more Shop hate, I would just cut the Pithing Needles (I run 5 ways to permanently remove Bazaar anyways) and add Energy Flux.  1 mana upkeep is expensive, 2 mana upkeep is backbreaking. 

The Pithing Needles are in generally the card I consider to be on the cutting block since I can deal with Bazaar already and have Cursecatcher in the main.  If there was some card that dealt with both Ichorid and Shop that would be ideal.  But I can't really think of any.

[nineisnoone]

-3 Meddling Mage
-3 Tormod's Crypt in SB  (Null Rod interferes with it... duh...)
-3 Pithing Needle

+3 Phyrexian Negator
+3 Energy Flux in SB
+3 Martyr of Bones

Negator.... I just keep finding my lack of a clock to be overwhelming at times.

Martyr of Bones... this I'm not sure about.  I do want an anti-graveyard tool, but there are many too choose from.  Unfortunately the obvious one, Tormod's Crypt, conflicts with Null Rod (which would typically stay in) so I'm not sure what to change.  Martyr, however, is cheap.  Can come down early.  And can hit multiple cards in the graveyard.  Seems like a solid addition... but there is also Planar Void or Faerie Macabre to consider...

With plenty of anti-Ichorid in the main deck (5 Waste, 4 Cursecatcher) and 3 Macabre in the SB, I decided to just go ahead and put in proper anti-Shop cards in 3 Energy Flux.

[Mantis]

Consider Mirror Entity if you find yourself lacking a clock. I am not sure Fish can support it, but I did run it in a deck with Ancient Tombs and the full set of power + Crypt and Sol Ring and it was great. The rest of the deck sucked unfortunately but the Mirror Entities were pretty awesome, I frequently had 3 creatures on board and then a Mirror Entity becomes a 1 or 2 clock pretty fast.

[Guli]

Tormod's Crypt, conflicts with Null Rod (which would typically stay in)

Nonsense, against ichorid you don't need null rod and you side them out to bring in crypt.

[nineisnoone]

That was the original thought, but I found that sometimes I would want to bring in Crypt against Storm (or anything that runs Yawgmoth's Will) though.

I've never tried Mirror Entity, even in other formats.  It's sounds better in a deck with more power though.  I don't run the power/tombs like you do to really get it up there. 

[Guli]

That was the original thought, but I found that sometimes I would want to bring in Crypt against Storm (or anything that runs Yawgmoth's Will) though.

I've never tried Mirror Entity, even in other formats.  It's sounds better in a deck with more power though.  I don't run the power/tombs like you do to really get it up there. 

You can find better things to storm I hope? Crypt doesn't really help that much.

[nineisnoone]

Crypt is good against storm. Most storm chains involve Yawgmoth's Will and some graveyard recursion.  I could just run counters, but I'd rather have something that is specifically graveyard hate and I my deck does not have much in the instant department so leaving mana untapped is usually detrimental.

[KeiDot]

I'm currently testing various decks for the GP Los Angeles Vintage side event. At the moment, I'm going through the motions on a UWB Fish deck since I'm a bit more comfortable with this version of Fish versus the BUG variety.

Lands
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Creatures
4 Cursecatcher
4 Dark Confidant
3 Meddling Mage
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Artifacts
3 Null Rod
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Duress
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Echoing Truth
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Yixid Jailer
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 ????

This is obviously a very rough idea in the works but I do enjoy the hand of Lotus, Fetchland, Dreadnought, Stifle, Meddling Mage, Dark Confidant and Tidehollow Sculler. The explosiveness of a Dreadnought clock is very satisfying. I've tried Jotun Grunt in its place but the effect of an early game Dreadnought is more a solid play. The times Dreadnought is a dead card mirror when Jotun Grunt is a dead card, somewhat. If I draw either card in my opening hand, they don't do anything by themselves. However, as the game progresses, the 2-3 turns when Grunt can do damage while he helps shrink lethal Yawghmoth Will plays or Tarmogoyfs still dont' compare to the 2-3 turns when Dreadnought can win me the game. If it's an issue of Stifle not being drawn on being held onto for Dreadnought, the latter is a bad play in general. Stifles should be out there generating tempo til your small men can win the game. The Dreadnought win is just a fast clock in the face of crawling game where the extra stifles can have some use. Anyhow, any suggestions would be great and thanks in advance.

[nineisnoone]

I like the build.

I would definitely add a Swamp.  It is rarely ever dead and it gives you a basic to search out against opposing Wastelands.  The single Urborg has been good to me as well as sometimes I need black mana out of Waste/Strips.  Though I usually assume that  playing it would be a meaningless advantage to the opponent.

I also think that the Duress's could be replaced with Thoughtseize.  Being able to discard a creature is useful at times particularly since you don't have any creature control in the main deck.  I'm not sure if you worry about Misdirection or the life loss on it but I feel that those are manageabe.

I prefer the 4 Null Rod formulation, but can see the virtue in 3.

The main thing I'd have to say is that your clock is vulnerable to artifact hate which seems fairly rampant these days.  Being card disadvantage to play Dreadnaught, an any card that deals with it becomes a two for one.  Threads of Disloyalty is a killer.  Negator still has some of those problems but in fewer match-ups plus I can always swords him after damage is on the stack (but before it is dealt to Negator, which I think should avoid me having to sacrifice permanents).

I would recommend Threads over Swords in the sideboard.  You already have Scroll->Echoing to deal with Tinker, so mostly you just want to deal with aggro creatures.  The two for one treads usually dominates opposing aggro, whereas Swords is strong but not quite as good.  Most relevant creatures can be stolen (negator isn't one luckily for me).  The only other ones are either Tinker creatures (but you can deal with that) or Shop creatures which should be address through whatever means you have for dealing with Shop in general. 

Do you expect a lot of Ichorid?  There are much more versatile Ichorid answers than Leyline and Jailer.  They are certainly the strongest (or among), but unless you really want to focus on those match-ups I would suggest other cards.

Good luck.