Be Aggressive, B E Aggressive - 0 Land Belcher in Vintage

[GrandpaBelcher]

Section 1 - Belching Through the Ages

The Belcher archetype has been around for a long time.  Michael Simister developed the deck soon after Goblin Charbelcher's release in Mirrodin in October 2003 and took it to glory and a third-place finish at the 2004 Vintage World Championships the following summer.  The deck filled an interesting role then as it could win (or at least establish itself) turn one, before a then unrestricted Trinisphere would hit play and before Mana Drain became active.  "What happens if your opponent has Force of Will?" the decks detractors would ask.  To which the Belcher pilot would reply, "What happens when they don't?"

Michael Simister's 3rd Place Gencon List:

4x Land Grant
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
1x Black Lotus
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Chrome Mox
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Tinder Wall
1x Channel
4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual

3x Goblin Welder
4x Chromatic Sphere
2x Living Wish
1x Mana Cylix

2x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will

1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Necropotence
1x Tinker
1x Tendrils of Agony
4x Goblin Charbelcher

Sideboard
1x Goblin Welder
3x Oxidize
4x Xantid Swarm
1x Artifact Mutation
1x Mishra's Workshop
1x Uktabi Orangutan
1x Taiga
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Scavenger Folk
1x Darksteel Colossus

The deck has a somewhat cult-like appeal.  People keep their favorite build sleeved up and goldfish it as a guilty habit, seeing how high they can push their turn-one rate.

I know.  I goldfish Belcher all the time, and have been for the past two years.

Two years ago, in July 2006, Wizards printed Coldsnap and with it a new mana acceleration spell - Rite of Flame - that kindled my interest in Belcher.  I shoehorned Rite of Flame into a deck based on Simister's third-place build and did some testing.  It was decidedly... meh.  I tore it down and started again from scratch.  It was close, but nothing special.  Elvish Spirit Guide and Tinder Wall and Rite of Flame worked well together, but none of them seemed to like Dark Ritual.  The deck was still missing something.

The next spring, 2007, Simian Spirit Guide was printed in Planar Chaos, and a new build of Belcher was born.  Not only did SSG make all my spells smell like burnt hair, it went perfectly with Rite of Flame and a new sorcery win condition printed in the previous set, Empty the Warrens.

I started building an RBg Belcher with Taiga; Bayou; Rite of Flame; Dark Ritual; broken black cards like Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, and tutors; and Duress, but there were still a lot of hang-ups.  The mana still didn't play well together.  Yawgmoth's Will was rarely as good here as it would be in Grim Long.  Duress would often make me wait a turn to get to my action spell, by which time my opponent might have already found an answer.

I was disappointed but undeterred.  I soon cut the Duresses for Xantid Swarms, but they were even slower.  Then I cut the Xantid Swarms for Pyroblasts and things started clicking.  I could save a SSG in hand and use Pyroblast like Force of Will.  I started running Seething Songs so that I could cast Belcher or Empty and float mana to protect them or cast Goblin Welder.  It wasn't long before I had cut the deck down to two colors, red and green, which had the added benefit of letting me reduce the deck to one land, conveniently for Belcher, a Mountain.

My spring 2007 list:

4x Goblin Charbelcher
3x Empty the Warrens
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Burning Wish

4x Goblin Welder
2x Living Wish
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Pyroblast

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
1x Taiga
4x Land Grant
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Chrome Mox
1x Grim Monolith
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Channel
4x Rite of Flame
4x Tinder Wall

4x Street Wraith

Sideboard
1x Taiga
1x Mishra’s Workshop
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Tolarian Academy
3x Gorilla Shaman
1x Tin Street Hooligan
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Shattering Spree
1x Storm Entity
1x Empty the Warrens

And I never turned back.  The two-color core of this deck has been the same for me since August 2007.  It's consistent, explosive, and resilient.  The only time I tested or played with black again was when Manamorphose was printed earlier this year, but even then I couldn't find a build I liked that kept the consistency and resiliency of the two-color build.

I played with builds close to this for more than a year.  Serum Powders were in and out.  Eventually I cut Wishes (after trying Living and Burning).  The number of Empty the  Warrens quickly settled at four, along with Goblin Welders, Pyroblasts, and Street Wraiths, but it was this build give or take five cards for 13 months.

Then, on September 1, 2008, Wizards gave Belcher players a windfall and unrestricted Chrome Mox.  Chrome Mox was already one of the better mana sources in the deck because it was almost always on color and could be played without imprinting just to increase storm for Empty the Warrens.  And now I can use all four!

It took only a nudge from Jerry Yang to get me to cut Land Grants and Taiga from my list.  Both cards were liabilities at times as Land Grant told my opponent what to counter and Taiga made my Belches fizzle, so it was a relief to be rid of them.  Plus, now when I activate Belcher, I can just turn my deck over and present it to my opponent - much less stressful than counting cards off the top, hoping not to see a land.

Chrome Mox paired well with Guttural Response and Manamorphose, which could be imprinted to make red or green mana, and cantripping Manamorphose helped make up for the Mox's drawback.  Manamorphose also allowed me to splash Tinker and Twister into the deck at the suggestion of Jason Jaco, leading to this list, which I played to a 4-2 record in Pittsburgh on November 22:

My winter 2008 list:

4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Empty the Warrens
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x Timetwister

4x Goblin Welder
4x Guttural Response
4x Street Wraith
4x Manamorphose

4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Tinder Wall
3x Chrome Mox*
1x Channel
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Grim Monolith

Sideboard
4x Desperate Ritual
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Storm Entity
2x Pyroblast
1x Gaea’s Blessing

* I eventually cut one Chrome Mox to reduce the chances of seeing two in the opening hand and effectively double mulliganing yourself.  I'm still unsure on three Chrome Moxes or four.

Section 2 - Belching Like a Pro, Why and How

Why would you want to play this deck, aside from the obvious potential of blowing up your opponent or Emptying the Warrens for 10 or 20 goblins on turn one?  For one, it's both more challenging and more rewarding than it looks.  Perhaps more importantly: this is the fastest deck in the format, still able to come online before an opposing Sphere or Drain after all these years.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you how to play the deck.  You count up your mana and you either play Belcher and shoot your opponent or Empty the Warrens and run them over.  If those aren't available, play Wheel of Fortune or Memory Jar.  If those aren't available, mulligan.  When something goes wrong, you can answer their counter with Guttural Response, use Welder to get back Belcher or refresh mana, or play another threat.  The deck can grind out wins where necessary.

There are a few tricks to learn for Belcher, but as with most decks they come with practice and are simply a matter of resource management:  imprinting Spirit Guides is like drawing them every turn; Manamorphose for double green (in case you draw Channel) or green-blue (in case you draw Tinker or Twister) if you have red mana available, otherwise Manamorphose for red-green; don't storm unnecessarily, etc.

The biggest thing to learn with this deck is to always be the aggressor, something that took me a while to learn coming from playing Fish all the time.  Here are a few rules to live by, seven in fact, coincidentally the total mana you need to play and fire Belcher:

1.  Mulligan like you mean it

The surest way to win with this deck is to do something on turn one.  If your opening hand doesn't contain Goblin Charbelcher, Empty the Warrens, Wheel of Fortune, Memory Jar, Tinker, or Twister, mulligan.  You can't count on Street Wraith to find you a win condition, so don't be tempted.  Don't stop following this mulligan rule until you hit four cards.  In fact, there are several three card hands that work (Lotus, Channel, Belcher is pretty good for example) - just keep that in mind.

2.  Take your time to do things right

When things are going well, a lot of your games won't take much longer than 10 minutes, so there's no excuse for miscounting mana or storm.  After enough goldfishing, you'll learn what good hands and bad hands look like, but that doesn't mean you can go on autopilot.  A hand with four mana and Empty the Warrens can easily be a mulligan if it relies on three Spirit Guides, so you shouldn't blame anyone but yourself when you keep it and weakly storm up to two.

3.  Have no fear

Your opponent doesn't have Force of Will in hand.  He isn't running Echoing Truth or Engineered Explosives and has never heard of Pithing Needle.  He will play Chalice for 1 if you have a fistful of Moxen and Chalice for zero if you have SSG, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame.  If he has Null Rod, you will play Empty the Warrens instead. Opponents frequently overestimate how much Belcher will be crippled by a particular card.  Like Br'er Rabbit and the Briar Patch, you can use this to your advantage.

4.  You will draw mana

If you can play Goblin Charbelcher but don't have the activation mana, play it anyway.  You'll get there.  The list is half mana (32/60; 32/52 if you count Street Wraiths and Manamorphoses) so just be confident that it will be there when you need it.  Unlike with win conditions, your odds of drawing mana off Street Wraith or Manamorphose are good, so it's permissible for you to rely on them for that purpose.

5.  Forget failure

Okay, so I lied about your opponent not having Force of Will.  It happens.  Welcome to Vintage.  Sometimes you have Belcher on board and activation mana in hand and your opponent Tinkers and Time Walks and Yawgmoth's Wills.  Just move on and get him next game.  This isn't just a Belcher thing either; some days you just can't catch a break.  There will be other matches and other tournaments.

6.  Don't give in

As I said, when you and your deck are performing well, your games are short and sweet.  That means when things are going poorly you have time to wait and let your opponent finish you off.  You never know, in the twenty turns it takes for Goblin Welder to go all the way or the turns it takes for Oath to find a Forbidden Orchard you could  topdeck your next threat or some broken mana to put something together.  Even with three Spheres of Resistance on board you can draw into Channel and Spirit Guides to pull off a win.  It's not likely, but you have time to see what happens.

7.  Stay fast in sideboard matches

Belcher is a combo deck and should remain a combo deck, always.  It lacks the permanent mana to set up a reliable defense or prevention mechanism.  Your goal is not to stop your opponent or beat his hate; your goal is to stomp your opponent and beat his face.  Don't succumb to fear and fill your sideboard contingency plans; they sap your mana and your hand and rarely do enough to let you pull ahead.  Treading water is not good enough when you have to win the game.

Section 3 - It's Only Been 5 Minutes and We're Already on Game 2; What Do I Do Now?

Here is my plan with the above sideboard and deck configuration:

Drain decks without Tezzeret or Trinket Mage
No change - You have four Guttural Response and enough threats to keep them occupied.  Watch out for Echoing Truth, and be ready to counter big blue spells like Mystical Tutor (because you can't counter Yawgmoth's Will or Tinker), Gifts Ungiven, Ancestral, and Fact or Fiction.

Drain decks with Tezzeret or Trinket Mage
-1 Guttural Response, -1 Grim Monolith, +2 Pyroblast - Any deck that can get Pithing Needle or Engineered Explosives or set up its win quickly needs to be answered, but you can't thin your combo too much.

Painter combo
-1 Grim Monolith, +1 Gaea's Blessing - You can bring in Pyroblasts too, especially on the draw (-1 Guttural Response, -1 Manamorphose).  They can be surprisingly quick at setting up their combo, especially if they're running a lot of Painters and Grindstones.

TPS and other non-Drain combo
-2 Guttural Response, +2 Pyroblast - You just have to race them.  Remember that they just have four Force of Wills when you're on the play.  The Pyroblasts are to counter Tinker and Twister.

Ad Nauseam and other fast combo without Force of Will
-4 Guttural Response, -4 Goblin Welder, +4 Desperate Ritual, +4 Storm Entity - You race them too.  Ad Nauseam is weak against damage, so the Storm Entities are particularly helpful.  You should be a turn faster than they are.

Workshops (MUD, Stax and Workshop Aggro, anything with lots of Spheres)
-4 Guttural Response, -4 Manamorphose, +4 Desperate Ritual, +4 Storm Entity - Guttural Response is clearly useless, and Manamorphose is terrible here since under a Sphere of Resistance it's just a crummy cantrip.  Win the die roll or catch them off guard game one then throw everything you have at them.

Ichorid
-4 Guttural Response, +4 Tormod's Crypt - Not a bad matchup on the play, but they can hit pretty hard if they get Chalice and Unmask on the draw.  Empty the Warrens is particularly good here since tokens can block and remove bridges.  Use Tormod's Crypt to build storm.

Fish (Force, Null Rod, dudes)
No change - You can race Null Rod and Meddling Mage since they likely won't be playing full sets of Moxen, and you can beat Force with Guttural Response.  Empty the Warrens is good here too.

Anything not blue
-4 Guttural Response, +4 Desperate Ritual - Just race it.  You can do it.

Section 4 - You Don't Have to Take My Word for It

I hope you found this helpful, even if you don't plan on picking up Belcher and taking it to a tournament.  If you have any questions or comments please post them here, and I'll be glad to share my Belcher experiences.

For further information, you can also try Stephen Menendian's spotlights on the Belcher deck, which looked at my one-land build from April 2007:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/13942_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Vintage_Spotlight_on_the_Belcher_Deck.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/13974_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Gifts_versus_Belcher.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/14013_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Gifts_versus_Belcher_Post_Board.html

There are also a couple of good recent topics on TMD on Belcher:
Guttural Response Or Pyroblast In Belcher? (Other Belcher Q's) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37126.0
[Deck] Unpowered Belcher http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36527.0

Belcher history can be found here in these posts:
[Deck] Charbelcher Combo 2004 (Feb. - June, 2004) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=15329.0
[Discussion] Belcher optimization (Nov. 2005) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=25733.0
[Report - 2LandBelcher] Good deck, mean results ("MaxxMatt," Dec. 2005) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26227.0
Burning Belcher (Jan - April 2007) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=31739.0
Belcher at Oxford tournament ("OfficeShredder," Feb. 2007) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32246.0
[Report] 10th Place at SCG with Belcher ("Klep," June 2007) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=33453.0
1-Land Belcher (April - July 2007) http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32803.0

Or do a search for Belcher at my blog, which chronicles most of my development:
http://magictothenthdegree.blogspot.com/

Good luck and happy mulliganing!

[Negator13]

What would you cut for the 4th Chrome Mox?

[GrandpaBelcher]

What would you cut for the 4th Chrome Mox?

The deck I have put together now is -1 Grim Monolith, +1 Chrome Mox.  Chrome Mox is good since it's another zero-drop mana source and fits into the role that Land Grant and Taiga played.  Grim Monolith is better in mulligans and with Goblin Welder, and it gets around the common Chalice of the Void numbers.  I haven't run into anything that really pushes me in one way or another.

[nineisnoone]

While perhaps the utmost of heresey...  is Welder really necessary?  It's only use is really on Lotus or Belcher which is only 1/3 of your mulligan conditions.  Have you tried running Storm Entity in the main along side the rest of the deck?  That would give you another card to mulligan for giving you a solid 16 mulligan conditions. Needle and Rod seem fairly prevalent as artifact answers, which makes using Welder as a counter for a failed Belcher that ineffective.  With the printing of Empty the Warrens and Storm Entity, it just feels like there is less reliance on Belcher, and hence, less of the need for Welder. 

[GrandpaBelcher]

While perhaps the utmost of heresey...  is Welder really necessary? 

It's not heresy, per se, but I will stick my neck out for the guy and say that Welder is really necessary.  It's a card that always seems weak in goldfishing (when you wish it was a mana source) but constantly proves itself in tournament play.  There are very few matches where you would hate to draw Welder, even though there are matches where you would prefer to draw other cards and side them out (against Ad Nauseam, for example, when you have to race).  Don't overlook that a full third of the deck is artifacts.  Welder is great against counterspells and is solid against Workshop decks starting game one.  It combos with LED, Jar, and Wheel to get Charbelcher into play and can make mana LED, Lotus, and Petal (or anything that ends up in the graveyard).  Welder does a little bit of everything, is a solid backup, and can at times become a primary path to victory: from my tournament report of SCG Chicago in Nov. 2007 (with apologies to Stephen Menendian):

In game one, I mulliganed twice while Steve mulliganed once. I played Mox Ruby and Goblin Welder, which Steve did not counter. When Steve Duressed me he saw a handful of gasoline, including Belcher. “I have to prevent you from getting to four mana,” he said, and took my Chrome Mox. My best chance to win was Lion’s Eye Diamond, and Steve’s hand was slow enough that I had time to do it. Three or four turns after being Duressed, my hand was perfect—Lotus Petal, REB, Lion’s Eye Diamond, and Force of Ape. I played Lotus Petal; Steve thought about it, then countered. I played LED. “Oh God!” said Steve. “Do I lose? I think I lose!” He did. I discarded my hand, Welded in Belcher, and cratered him.

Storm Entity is playable (as evidenced by its presence in my sideboard) but it doesn't belong in the maindeck.  I had it there for a few months early in 2008, but was never pleased with its performance and was happy to replace it with Tinker and Twister.  Basically Storm Entity loses to Force of Will and bounce and is, therefore, weaker than both Belcher and Empty as a possible win condition.  It comes in against decks that can't counter it and that will have trouble with a 4/4 or 5/5 beater attacking on turn one.  It's also a strong Living Wish target, for any builds that still play that card.

Edit:  I should point out that, even if I still played Living Wish (which is still a solid consideration), I would play four Welders maindeck rather than putting one in the board as a wish target.  I want them on-hand.

[nineisnoone]

Well, you are on the money on the goldfishing assessment.  That's mostly how I've been testing your list, and in that case at least it does feel weak.  I'm not really an experienced Belcher player so I'm sure there are subtleties that I am missing when it comes to more complicated situations. 

However, even after reading your blog entry, I am still not sure.  You say yourself....

Why this concept took so long to hit me, I don’t know. The last four hands I kept were terrible, terrible Belcher hands. Mana, Welders, and Red Blasts are totally weak in a deck that’s meant to win on turn one.

Now, I know there is a difference between mulligan decisions and what cards make the deck, but if the ultimate problem was the opening hand not having a strong threat, then Welder seems as if it would not be the answer to the deck's general problems. 

Plus Welder didn't seem to be relevant in your other match-ups (as far as the blog entry goes). Even in the match-up you quote a Storm Entity might have won you the game as well (possibly, some of the details are not clear).  If I am reading it correctly and you played a turn 1 Welder, then got Duressed, and then had additional 3-4 turns after that. So if you had played a turn 1 Storm Entity for 3 (like Mox, Mox, Rites) you would have won on Entity beats as well.  I'm not sure if you had the mana for such a play, but I'm merely stating that even in the case at hand, Storm Entity would not have been so bad.

I won't argue that Belcher and Empty are worse that Entity, because that wouldn't be true.  Empty and Belcher are clearly the better win conditions in the deck.  I am in no way challenging that nor would I challenge Tinker or Timetwister.  Both excellent additions.

However comparing Welder to Entity, the comparison isn't as stark.  Both Welder and Entity can be bounced.  Entity may be weaker when you replay him, but it is also possible that on the recast he might be bigger than he was previously.  Entity also has the benefit of haste while a Welder still has to wait the turn to be active.   Finally, if you get into a counter war, Entity will actually be bigger for it.  Welder also can be countered, but has no additionally benefits to winning the counter war.  I'm not necessarily saying that Entity is the answer, but I'm less sure that Welder is.

A couple other questions,
Given that you are already going into U for the third color in Timetwister and Tinker, why not add Ancestral Recall? 
Also, I have really enjoyed Tinker and Twister so I'm wondering if you tried out Windfall.

[Mantis]

Very nice read. Thanks, best 5 minutes of my day so far .

[GrandpaBelcher]

@nineis - You make some valid points, but realize that the tournament and the report in question are almost a year and a half old.  I've played in a lot of tournament since then and have learned and experienced quite a bit.  The problem I was having in Chicago was that I was keeping hands with a Red Blast and a Welder and thinking that I would cripple my opponent with a well-timed counter and start attacking with Welder until I drew an actual threat.  That's not how the deck works.  The first priority is always getting Belcher or a sufficiently large Empty the Warrens; anything else is a distraction, but that doesn't mean they don't belong in the deck.

Welder and Red Blast (Pyroblast, Guttural Response, whatever) are necessary in a format that plays Force of Will.  If you played a first turn Belcher and had it countered, Welder becomes a must-counter even if you don't yet have an artifact in play.  And if they don't counter your Welder, any artifacts you play become must counters!  Like I said previously, Welder has plenty of interactions within Belcher as well.  As for the counterspells, the difference between four mana and five is slight for this deck, so it's easy to protect your major threats with a Blast.  You have the additional benefit of countering some of your opponents' threats as well, but that's not what they're there fore primarily.

I played Storm Entity maindeck in several tournaments last year and it was a disappointment.  It's not particularly hard for opponents to deal with before or after it hits play nor is it a particularly fast kill.  All of your points comparing Welder and Entity are true, but they don't matter, since the deck doesn't demand another outright win condition.  A good Belcher hand has one win condition, a protection spell or second win condition, and mana enough for both, and that's essentially how the deck is constructed.  Welder and Entity each have a different role.  Storm Entity is good at killing an opponent, but it's not as good at that as Belcher or Warrens so it won't take their places.  Welder is proficient at many different things, most of which are unique to Welder, so it can't be replaced by Storm Entity.

Does this make sense?  It's a difficult concept to explain well, but the distinctions do present themselves in testing.

As for adding other blue cards - give it a shot!  I had two slots to fill (they had been Storm Entities) and Tinker and Twister are the best options.  Tinker is either Belcher number five or Memory Jar number two.  I guess it's also Black Lotus number two, but that use seems like it would be extremely rare.  Twister is always a draw seven, and Belcher should be able to win with seven cards, especially if it has some floating mana.  Going back to the previous discussion, I should point out that there have been times where Twister has not contributed to a win because it empties the graveyard and doesn't work with Welder.  Despite that, Twister obviously gets included before Windfall since it always draws seven cards.

Ancestral is an interesting case.  The problem is that an opening hand that includes Ancestral Recall and no other threat is probably not good enough to keep.  There's not enough certainty that drawing three more cards would put a win condition or draw seven in your hand.  Considering that playing the blue spells relies on six non-permanent mana sources (four Manamorphose, Lotus, and Petal in addition to the permanent Mox Sapphire and the odd "imprint another blue spell on a Chrome Mox" trick), it's often a risky proposition to play any of them and any uncertainty is unwelcome.

@Mantis - Thanks!

[Mantis]

Welder is a pretty disruptive tool itself too. It cuts off DSC, which is probably the most used win condition in this format. It's also good against Shops which are quite possibly Belchers hardest matchup. Ocassionaly you might be able to switch a Needle for a Lotus or an artifact discarded off TfK.

EDIT: Sorry if I'm just stating the obvious.

[dark burn]

I think welder is the only card outside of the draw 7s that give the deck a chance in the midgame.  Without the welders you would always have to go off turn 1-2 and win or just scoop.

[dark burn]

A friend of my plays belcher and I may have to borrow the deck off him cause it is so fun to play.  Your changes definately make the deck better.

[nineisnoone]

Thanks for the response!  I'm still trying out your list, which I actually much prefer to other lists I've tried, so I'm just trying to pick your brain here.   

[Bongo]

Concise, enlightening, well-written - amazing read, thank you very much!

I've also been testing Belcher and my list is very similar to yours. Basically, the only changes are:

Maindeck:

-1 Grim Monolith
-4 Guttural Response

+1 Ancestral Recall
+1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
+1 Chrome Mox
+2 Seething Song


Grim Monolith continued to disappoint, hence I cut it. While double Chrome Mox might be a liability, the benefits of running four outweighs the disadvantages in my opinion.
Ancestral is too good not to run and most opponent will treat it as a must-counter, so it can also function as bait. Seething Song is another accelerator I have found to be useful, especially with Bargain and Deus in the SB. What is your opinion on SS?
Bargain is a bit of an experiment, as you can only cast it with Manamorphose (to be fair, Tinker, Ancestral and Twister, too). However, it is another game-winner when it resolves. I like to play with as many game-breaking effects as possible. However, this slot might be better off as the third Seething Song, have to test some more.
Guttural Response was something that I only included in the sideboard occasionally. I'm considering to cut Street Wraith entirely and swap them for Guttural Response. How crucial was MD Guttural in your testing?



Your sideboard is also interesting as I didn't think of running accelerators in the sb. My SB differences are:


-4 Desperate Ritual
-4 Storm Entity

+2 Pyroblast
+2 Ancient Grudge
+4 Deus of Calamity


I have found Ancient Grudge to be very good against Null Rod, Pithing Needle, TimeVault/Key and Painter/Grindstone shenanigans - basically the only artifacts you care about. Also, I like the full four Pyroblasts after boarding.
Deus of Calamity might seem odd, but it is an absolute game-breaker once it connects. Storm Entity is not fast enough, and is easily handled. Deus becomes progressively harder to handle and is a huge clock. Turn 1 Deus often goes all the way. The Seething Song in my list also makes it easy to cast. This sideboard tech is the one I'm most proud of.


Would love to hear your thoughts.


EDIT: For easier viewing, here's my entire list:

4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Empty the Warrens

1x Channel
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar

1x Ancestral Recall
1x Tinker
1x Timetwister
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain

4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Tinder Wall
4x Manamorphose

4x Goblin Welder
4x Street Wraith
2x Seething Song

1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring


Sideboard

4x Deus of Calamity
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Pyroblast
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Gaea’s Blessing

[GrandpaBelcher]

Concise, enlightening, well-written - amazing read, thank you very much!

I've also been testing Belcher and my list is very similar to yours. Basically, the only changes are:

Bongo, your list looks solid.  I especially like the Deus of Calamity in the sideboard, an option I have considered but haven't tested or tried out in a tournament.  Your list is very aggressive, definitely a good road to take the deck down.

I wonder if you've looked at Jeremy Seroogy's two color Belcher list that placed top 16 at Worlds in 2008: http://forums.starcitygames.com/viewtopic.php?p=925925#925925.  A list like that with Dark Rituals would make it a lot easier to play the cards like Yawgmoth's Bargain without having to rely on Manamorphose or combinations of restricted cards.  It's a different type of list with a different strategy that I'm not qualified to comment on, but it might be worth considering if you're eager go all in as your list seems to indicate you are.

Seething Song is bad in my opinion.  Opponents will always counter Seething Song if given the chance, and its resource cost (three mana, which is usually three cards) is huge and hard to recover if it's lost.  If they don't counter, you're scot-free, but you've made an extra, irrelevant mana most of the time.  Desperate Ritual would have done the same thing with a smaller investment and, therefore, a smaller risk.  I'm sure it's different with Yawgmoth's Bargain in the deck and especially with Deus in the sideboard, but I haven't tested those yet.

Our decks are actually more similar than they appear.  One could say that my deck is just your deck pre-sideboarded to beat blue decks.  I have anti-blue main and acceleration in the side where you have acceleration main and anti-blue in the side.  I'll definitely have to try Deus for real.

[OwenTheEnchanter]

Very nice write-up, you know this deck very well.

[Bongo]

Seething Song is bad in my opinion.  Opponents will always counter Seething Song if given the chance, and its resource cost (three mana, which is usually three cards) is huge and hard to recover if it's lost.  If they don't counter, you're scot-free, but you've made an extra, irrelevant mana most of the time.  Desperate Ritual would have done the same thing with a smaller investment and, therefore, a smaller risk.  I'm sure it's different with Yawgmoth's Bargain in the deck and especially with Deus in the sideboard, but I haven't tested those yet.

Our decks are actually more similar than they appear.  One could say that my deck is just your deck pre-sideboarded to beat blue decks.  I have anti-blue main and acceleration in the side where you have acceleration main and anti-blue in the side.  I'll definitely have to try Deus for real.

After doing some more games today, I have come to the conclusion that Bargain is not worth it, at least in this type of Belcher. You're too reliant on Manamorphose or Lotus to cast it at all. I often wished it was another card, prompting me to cut it. The blue spells only have single-colored manacosts, which are easier to achieve with Sapphire or Petal.

However, Seething Song has been good in my testing. Clever opponents will try to counter any acceleration spells that would get you above four mana (because of Empty), so it doesn't really matter. While it may have been an exception, getting Desperate Ritual countered by Spell Snare was the frowns. Seething Song also gives you the mana to cast Deus/Memory Jar/Belcher with Pyroblast backup, while Desperate Ritual is simply +1 Red, acting as a bad Cabal Ritual. If you go SSG, Rite of Flame, Desperate Ritual, you still need one more mana to cast Empty or Belcher, so it can also be a big "investment" when countered, because it invalidates all your prior acceleration.
I think SS is a risk worth taking to further increase your percentage of first-turn wins, especially post-board with Deus.

The big question is whether to maindeck to maindeck blue hate, and if yes, whether Pyroblast main wouldn't be better. How often was Guttural Response better than Pyroblast maindeck? I know the castability off ESG is nice, but countering Tinker, Twister or something like Gifts has been huge for me. What is your opinion on this?

[Bongo]

Seething Song is bad in my opinion.  Opponents will always counter Seething Song if given the chance, and its resource cost (three mana, which is usually three cards) is huge and hard to recover if it's lost.  If they don't counter, you're scot-free, but you've made an extra, irrelevant mana most of the time.  Desperate Ritual would have done the same thing with a smaller investment and, therefore, a smaller risk.  I'm sure it's different with Yawgmoth's Bargain in the deck and especially with Deus in the sideboard, but I haven't tested those yet.

Our decks are actually more similar than they appear.  One could say that my deck is just your deck pre-sideboarded to beat blue decks.  I have anti-blue main and acceleration in the side where you have acceleration main and anti-blue in the side.  I'll definitely have to try Deus for real.

After doing some more games today, I have come to the conclusion that Bargain is not worth it, at least in this type of Belcher. You're too reliant on Manamorphose or Lotus to cast it at all. I often wished it was another card, prompting me to cut it. The blue spells only have single-colored manacosts, which are easier to achieve with Sapphire or Petal.

However, Seething Song has been good in my testing. Clever opponents will try to counter any acceleration spells that would get you above four mana (because of Empty), so it doesn't really matter. While it may have been an exception, getting Desperate Ritual countered by Spell Snare was the frowns. Seething Song also gives you the mana to cast Deus/Memory Jar/Belcher with Pyroblast backup, while Desperate Ritual is simply +1 Red, acting as a bad Cabal Ritual. If you go SSG, Rite of Flame, Desperate Ritual, you still need one more mana to cast Empty or Belcher, so it can also be a big "investment" when countered, because it invalidates all your prior acceleration.
I think SS is a risk worth taking to further increase your percentage of first-turn wins, especially post-board with Deus.

The big question is whether to maindeck to maindeck blue hate, and if yes, whether Pyroblast main wouldn't be better. How often was Guttural Response better than Pyroblast maindeck? I know the castability off ESG is nice, but countering Tinker, Twister or something like Gifts has been huge for me (occasionally ramping the storm count up can also be huge). What is your opinion on this?

[GrandpaBelcher]

The big question is whether to maindeck to maindeck blue hate, and if yes, whether Pyroblast main wouldn't be better. How often was Guttural Response better than Pyroblast maindeck? I know the castability off ESG is nice, but countering Tinker, Twister or something like Gifts has been huge for me. What is your opinion on this?

There's actually a discussion of this very topic from just a few days ago: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37126.0

In summary, I feel that some sort of anti-Force of Will protection is necessary maindeck, but it's metagame dependent.  Blue is the most popular color in Vintage, after all, and being able to play around and through its counterspells is tantamount to victory.  Blue decks are also fast enough with their win conditions (like Tezzeret and Tinker) and their other disruptive plans (like Trinket Mage for Explosives or Needle) that being able to stop those is important as well.  My goal with the cards in Belcher is to get Belcher into play or to Empty the Warrens first, which is a job for Guttural Response because of its flexible hybrid cost and how well it works with Chrome Mox.  However, Pyroblast is definitely better to protect Belcher from other decks' win conditions.  And I wouldn't run either in a metagame that didn't have a lot of blue decks.  Guttural Response would have been king-like in the GAT metagame; Pyroblast is probably better now.

[Bongo]

Thanks for the link, didn't see that thread.
I agree that Pyroblast should probably be maindeck, there's a lot of blue right now. Probably shouldn't happen, but the fact that Pyro's are even better with an opposing Painter's Servant is the icing on the cake.
I've cut the Ancestral for the fourth Seething Song, because even if I could cast Recall, it was often mediocre.


My current list:

4x Goblin Charbelcher
4x Empty the Warrens

1x Channel
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x Timetwister

4x Chrome Mox
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Tinder Wall
4x Manamorphose
4x Seething Song

4x Goblin Welder
4x Pyroblast

1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring


Sideboard

4x Deus of Calamity
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x ?
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Gaea’s Blessing

Now that I have Pyroblast maindeck, what would you recommend in the open slots?



@Mods: please delete my double-post above (#16), was a misclick.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Now that I have Pyroblast maindeck, what would you recommend in the open slots?

You're looking for something that will replace dead Pyroblasts in matches without blue.  My deck has Street Wraiths main where you have Seething Song and moves the extra acceleration (in my case Desperate Ritual) to the sideboard.  If you don't want to take that route, I think I'd still go with more acceleration in the side.  Your best option against a mystery deck or any deck without counters is to race, so more acceleration always seems like the way to go.  Otherwise, your board already looks pretty good.

Have you tried artifact removal other than Ancient Grudge?  I've never had good experiences running artifact hate in the board because almost anything you want to blow up artifacts against usually has a LOT of artifacts, so taking out one at a time never really cuts the mustard.  Plus, you have to put a bunch of acceleration into your artifact destruction spell, often leaving you with little in hand if you do manage to clear the board.  Ancient Grudge is one of my top three cards in that area, though (can be used without taking up space in hand or used twice), with Ingot Chewer (gets around Chalice at one and Thorn of Amethyst) and Deconstruct.  Matt Hazard has run Deconstruct in his sideboards, and it looks really good.  Being able to destroy an artifact and get your mana back is a huge benefit for this deck.  I've also tried Caustic Wasps (reusable, flies, deals damage) and liked those, but I don't think I've ever won a game because of them.

[Suicideking]

I have mixed feelings about belcher and nothing really to add but I wanted to say this is a well done write up.  I think its great you took the time to create this.

[Diakonov]

I am personally fond of Shattering Spree, as it is very cheap and great for taking out a lone Null Rod or a whole team of Stax pieces, esp. if you are running things like Seething Song.  Not so great when looking at a Chalice, though.  I think the best strategy is to diversify it a little bit, if not only for that reason.

Great article, btw.  I have toyed with Belcher off and on for quite some time, and you have addressed all of the woes I remember having to deal with (black vs. red, is blue worth it, etc.).

One thing I do remember clearly is NOT being a fan of Street Wraith.  I was a big proponent at first, but a friend pointed out its weakness and I lost faith in it over time.  The fact that it essentially forces you into a "6 card mulligan" when you draw it in your opening hand was very irritating.

[Bongo]

I've never had good experiences running artifact hate in the board because almost anything you want to blow up artifacts against usually has a LOT of artifacts, so taking out one at a time never really cuts the mustard.  Plus, you have to put a bunch of acceleration into your artifact destruction spell, often leaving you with little in hand if you do manage to clear the board.

I've been pretty happy about Ancient Grudge, since it helps you to take out Needle and Null Rod through opposing counters and at different times (this has been quite important).  Ancient Grudge is also the reason I play with the full four Chrome Moxen, they help immensely with Grudge as you don't have to continually invest resources afterwards.
Shattering Spree is also an option, but the fact that its limited to one turn made me omit it, as your opponent can simply hold a redundant hoser in hand and drop it right afterwards. With Grudge, you can take the hate out immediately and your opponent has to play around it.
Deconstruct seems interesting, but I suspect that GGG might be hard to use without Manamorphose if you want to continue chaining spells.
If I would include additional artifact destruction, I would probably use Ingot Chewer, as Grudge takes care of Chalice and Null Rod nicely, so Ingot Chewer is perfect for Thorn. The fact that it has also applications in the Ichorid match makes it an attractive option.


Currently, I'm trying out Magus of the Moon in the open SB slots. Perhaps more acceleration or artifact destruction might be better, but I like Magus as an additional "I win" card. You can catch a lot of people off-guard with this, and it has won me quite a few games. First turn Magus against Ichorid often does the trick. It doesn't require that much resources, and together with Deus, you can switch into a man-plan. This is effective to make opposing SB hate less effective, since they probably board out creature removal.
I haven't tested enough to give conclusions, but so far, it's been very promising. Let me know what you think.


Edit:
By the way, I can really recommend Seething Song maindeck, as it has been solid gold in my testing. I've cut Street Wraith for it, and so far never looked back.

@Diakonov: Spree can take care of Chalice, as the replicate copies can destroy Chalice.

[Metman]

I had always tested various 2-Land Belcher and decided to sleeve up 0-Land and really like it. Thanks for bringing this deck back to my mind. 

My testing revealed that Street Wraith would better off as more acceleration or the counters if you don't already run them.  I"ve put in the Seething Songs and really like them.  I like Gutteral Response over the Blast plan.  Tinker doesn't blow up this deck because Titan or Colossus doesn't beat you and Stax will bring other threats down first before they get 2U up.  I don't think Timetwister beats Belcher either.  If I've taken my turn and couldn't beat them and they cast Timetwister they are going to lose.  Those are the only two cards I can think of that could be argued to beat Belcher quick enough that Gutteral Response doesn't take care of. 

[GrandpaBelcher]

This is very interesting.  The majority here feel that Seething Song is good and Street Wraith is a liability, whereas I feel strongly the other way.  I may have to reevaluate after some more testing, but we'll see...

Seething Song I've already talked about previously a bit: it's expensive; your opponent must counter it; if they don't counter it could have been any acceleration spell; Desperate Ritual is cheaper and just as effective most of the time.  I have tested with Seething Song periodically and in both Vintage and Legacy (most recently in Legacy), and I always hate it.  It's one of the first cards to go every time because I never want to see it.  I'm reluctant to use the phrase, but it always seems like a "win-more" - it's greedy.  That said, any of you playing with Deus probably have more need for it than I do and a better impression of it as a result.

Street Wraith is something that hasn't really come up yet.  First, I think the "56-card deck" aspect really does bear itself out over time.  The cards in my deck are the cards I want to see the most often and Street Wraith to get me to them.  The difficulties in mulliganning are easily overcome with practice and goldfishing, and you can judge the replacement card's value (in your cases, Seething Song) by how it would work in the same hand.  You can't keep a hand without a win condition whether you're running Street Wraith or not, and that's mostly what I base my mulligans on.  I'm not saying Street Wraith is the perfect card and that I wouldn't replace it if something better came along, but its presence hasn't been a question for a long time.  Also, I'll point out that they stay in the deck for games two and three, allowing me to get to my sideboard cards more quickly.

[TheBigShow]

don't u just wanna kill yourself when u have a dead blue card in your hand?

u're the man, btw.

[GrandpaBelcher]

don't u just wanna kill yourself when u have a dead blue card in your hand?

Well, I wouldn't say I want to "kill" myself when that happens, but it is pretty disappointing.  Fortunately, there are enough blue sources in the deck (Sapphire, Lotus, Petal, 4x Manamorphose) to make casting Tinker and Twister reasonable.  According to Deck-u-lator (http://www.implair.com/deckulator/deckulator.html), I have a 60% chance of having a blue source in my opening seven, which is good enough for me.  (If I take Street Wraiths into account, my chances improve to 63% in a 56 card deck.)

One of the more important plays to consider is drawing Tinker or Twister off Manamorphose.  Especially if you'll have three mana and are looking for either acceleration (which will be red or green) or a three-mana win condition (Wheel, Tinker, or Twister), you'll often want to include blue in your thoughts about what colors to get.  It's far too situational to give an easy algorithm, but just figure out where you are and where you want to be and you'll be able to tell what colors to get.

[TheBigShow]

actually, it's a lot better than that.  if 1 of your first 7 cards is blue, the chances of 1 of the remaining 6 to b a blue source is like 74% (not counting street wraiths).  u said earlier u shouldnt use a street wraith or morphose to try and top deck a win con and u have 8 of those, so i dont think u should factor street wraiths into an argument about getting to a blue source.  in other words, i dont think u would keep a hand with a blue card, no blue source, and a street wraith (unless u have a lively belcher or big empty, of course).  take that 74% with the 25% chance of actually getting 1 of those 2 blue cards in your first 7, and u have an unplayable blue card about 6 in every 100 games.  not bad at all; i stand corrected.

[dark burn]

I was testing this a few times and I found a card that seems better than wraith or seething song.  Summoners pact.  With the pact you can search up tinderwall or elvish spirit guide.  It is like 4 more mana excel in the deck.  Of course, you can only use it if you plan on winning that turn, but it makes the deck a little more consistent.

[LordHomerCat]

I was testing this a few times and I found a card that seems better than wraith or seething song.  Summoners pact.  With the pact you can search up tinderwall or elvish spirit guide.  It is like 4 more mana excel in the deck.  Of course, you can only use it if you plan on winning that turn, but it makes the deck a little more consistent.

Seems very awful when half your win conditions are Empty the Warrens.