[Single Card Discussion] Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

[BC]

Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
4UBBR
Planeswalker - Bolas   Mythic Rare
+3: Destroy target noncreature permanent.
-2: Gain control of target creature.
-9: Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker deals 7 damage to target player. That player discards seven cards, then sacrifices seven permanents.


Pricey, to be sure.  But at least it's in very playable colors.  The effects are just unbelievably sweet.  This could be an awesome game changer in any format, especially slower casual formats like EDH.  I guess I could see it being included in some Vintage decks, most likely Mana Drain material.

[mike_bergeron]

Are there any already known cool tricks to sneak him into play?  the casting cost is just too much. 

[BruiZar]

Eurekall, once resolved shoot the other guy's permanent.

[UnholyAlliance]

With those redic abilities this matters no too much, but any word on his loyalty?

[Grand Inquisitor]

This is similar to Tyrant's ability to nullify the drawbacks of Show and Tell.  Maybe Jeff/Jeremiah want to chime in?

[Troy_Costisick]

Eurekall, once resolved shoot the other guy's permanent.

Yeah, but how many bounce spells can you play for seven mana?

[Arsenal]

Loyalty = 5

[Tha Gunslinga]

Are there any already known cool tricks to sneak him into play?  the casting cost is just too much. 

Dream Halls.

[Harlequin]

Unfortunately Show and Tell Reads:

Each player may put an artifact, creature, enchantment, or land card from his or her hand into play.

I know this because we thought about Show and Tell + Tyrant Blue + Tezzeret could be viable.  (and even befor Tezz was printed, we ran Jace in Tyrant Blue).  My gut reaction to this card is that for vintage he is comperable but still inferior to Tidespout Tyrant.   Tyrant is much easier to put into play, and does much much more the turn it resolves.  This guy wins the game after being in play for 3 turns... If tyrant hasn't won you the game before then - you're doing it wrong.

[BruiZar]

Maybe an interesting note, Nicol Bolas can shoot Tezzeret the turn it comes into play

[chrissss]

Maybe if a good deck is build around it, it's just if you have that mana, there are way better cards out there. It does pitch to fof though, which is a good plus.

So Dream halls is on of the few ways to get it into play quicker?

[bluemage55]

It's inferior to exisitng options unless you can accelerate it out.  Dream Halls is not a good accelerant, however, since you need 3UU to cast it in the first place, not to mention an extra card to pitch and the symmetrical effect. 

I doubt this card will see much Vintage play unless someone breaks it utterly with some sneaky way to get it into play that's actually good (unlike Dream Halls).

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

It's inferior to exisitng options unless you can accelerate it out.  Dream Halls is not a good accelerant, however, since you need 3UU to cast it in the first place, not to mention an extra card to pitch and the symmetrical effect. 

I doubt this card will see much Vintage play unless someone breaks it utterly with some sneaky way to get it into play that's actually good (unlike Dream Halls).

This will never see serious play in vintage. I'm not going to go out of my way to find a way to put this thing into play, and then invest the time to ramp loyalty counters to do something that is anything less then win the game on the spot. You are better off trying to find a way to get yawgmoth's bargain on line and win the game.

[LotusHead]

It's inferior to exisitng options unless you can accelerate it out.  Dream Halls is not a good accelerant, however, since you need 3UU to cast it in the first place, not to mention an extra card to pitch and the symmetrical effect. 

I doubt this card will see much Vintage play unless someone breaks it utterly with some sneaky way to get it into play that's actually good (unlike Dream Halls).

This will never see serious play in vintage. I'm not going to go out of my way to find a way to put this thing into play, and then invest the time to ramp loyalty counters to do something that is anything less then win the game on the spot. You are better off trying to find a way to get yawgmoth's bargain on line and win the game.

8 mana to blow something up and/or steal a creature is not win for me. I don't see this hitting play ever.

[nineisnoone]

If you can get that much mana out, you might as well just play Cruel Ultimatum and save yourself for one less.

[Troy_Costisick]

If you can get that much mana out, you might as well just play Cruel Ultimatum and save yourself for one less.

I agree.  When it comes to Planeswalkers, Tezzeret worked because he does all the things Vintage likes to do.  He untaps artifacts.  He tutors things into play.  He's easy to Drain into.  He pitches for Force of Will, and he provides an win condition the turn after you play him.  In fact, he can really provide two win conditions.  I don't see many planeswalkers matching up to him, and certainly not the impressive but uncastable Nicol Bolas.

[Diakonov]

This will never see serious play in vintage. I'm not going to go out of my way to find a way to put this thing into play, and then invest the time to ramp loyalty counters to do something that is anything less then win the game on the spot. You are better off trying to find a way to get yawgmoth's bargain on line and win the game.

If you can get that much mana out, you might as well just play Cruel Ultimatum and save yourself for one less.

Or better yet, you might as well just play Conflux.

Conflux
   
Sorcery   Mythic Rare
Search your library for a white card, a blue card, a black card, a red card, and a green card, reveal them, and put them into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

You would definitely win the game on the spot.  Plus, it pitches to virtually anything.  But, again, getting Dream Halls online with the card in your hand can be a bit of a task.

[the boogie man]

What if you made a dream halls deck with drain and chrome mox? conflux pitches to force and misd, and adds any color mana with mox. mox would also make first turn drains possible.

[BruiZar]

Here's a list of a dreamhalls deck that wins the turn it comes into play.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37098.0

[Smoochy]

It seems that every other Planeswalker is more playable in vintage than this guy.  Looks like he will make a great addition to my binder right next to Nicol Bolas the Elder Dragon Legend Card.

Come to think of it the darn Legend card is more playable with Shallow grave than this mess of a casting cost. Wizards keeps us from making this guy playable in any viable way.  I see him getting a tiny bit of play in Standard that's about it.  He is a fanboy's dream card and that is about it.

Geez you might as well make his final ability -9 :You win the game.  You deserve it if this card can be cast and kept around for 3 turns.

If one of you vintage masters ever make a deck that makes him playable I will truly be amazed.  (I am calling on Steve to work this one out)

[Midnightfrolic]

Here's how you can play Nicol Bolas on first turn. In fact, here's how you can play ANY card on the first turn.

Play Mana Crypt for zero casting cost and tap for 2 colorless mana
play Lightning Greaves for 2 colorless mana
Play a swamp and tap for one black mana
Cast Dark Ritual for 3 black mana
discard an Elvish Spirit Guide to get 1 green mana
cast Channel The Suns with the 1green and 3 black mana to get one of each color mana
cast Maelstrom Archangel
equip her with the Lightning Greaves for zero mana
attack
play Nico Bolas Planeswalker or Progenitus for free because of Maelstrom Archangel's triggered ability upon damaging an opponent in combat

Chances are, your opponent will not have any fliers out on the first turn, so you can attack with the Mailstrom Archangel without worrying.

[M.Solymossy]

First off, welcome to TMD.

.

Second, I believe this guy would like a word with you.  He's pretty ripped.  I'd run...

.

[Klep]

Welcome to TMD! Before posting further, I suggest that you read the rules, wherein you will learn that thread necromancy is quite frowned upon.

-Klep