Black/White/Blue Servant-Grindstone

[AshThaReaper804]

Here's something else my sick little mind came up with, it bears testing against your "super-decks" because it covers the meta with adequate hate. have a look see:

Hate:
4 Null Rod
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Duress
4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Dust To Dust
2 Disenchant
2 Abeyance
2 Orims Chant


Brown
4 Painter's Servant
4 Grindstone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Sol Ring
Mana Vault
Lotus Petal
Mana Crypt

Dig
3 Meditate

Search
Enlightened Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Consultation

Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scrubland
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
2 Academy Ruins

Siideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Tariff
3 Diabolic edict
2 Tormod's Crypt


Synopsis:
This deck plans to lose the first game if it doesn't produce enough brown to combo off, but other than that I see it covering the necessary hatred stop most vintage decks out there.
We've all seen Servant operate so I don't really need to go into the combo or how to get it out. The Null Rod may throw you off, but it's becoming necessary against practically every 10 proxy power player out there.
The use of Disenchant and Dust to Dust to destroy artifacts including null rod itself, should send your Shop Aggro opponent whirling.
An Orim's chant or Abeyance at the right time seals your combo as well as defuses opposing Storm players combos. The Canonist helps to difuse storm as well.
The sideboard holds hate purely for Ichorid and creatures of course...
This deck is both effective and budget, it may not 1st a tournament but it has the basic necessities to produce a fight.
Your Thoughts appreciated...
Reaper

[Fester]

You're planning on using Null Rod to stymie your opponents and then destroy it yourself so that you can win with the Painter Combo?  For serious?  Null Rods work best with creature kill conditions since Null Rod doesn't step on their toes.  You're also running Blue without the standard Blue suite.  (AR,BS,TW,Ponder)  Why are we not running power either.  10 Proxies aren't the standard where you play?

Also, I'm not really interested in decks that "may not 1st a tournament but it has the basic necessities to produce a fight."  I doubt that I'm the only one.

Maybe I'm just being a stickler but this idea seems awful and probably doesn't even warrant testing.

[AshThaReaper804]

Also, I'm not really interested in decks that "may not 1st a tournament but it has the basic necessities to produce a fight."  I doubt that I'm the only one.

Maybe I'm just being a stickler but this idea seems awful and probably doesn't even warrant testing.

In case you haven't read any articles recently, the 10 proxy thing is going out the window because the best player may not have the best cards. Alternate prizes are now being awarded for non proxied decks. I don't want this build to run power, it would get completely shut down and be useless unless it was a turn one action.

PS I'm already testing it against a partially proxied version Paul Mastriano's 1st place Storm Deck

[Purple Hat]

Here are my comments right now:

1) why are you playing painter/grindstone in this deck?  If only for the random colorless "I win" factor why is this not leyline/helm?
2) why are you playing 4 grindstones? It does nothing on it's own and 2 are redundant, come to think of it...so is painter in this deck, but at least it's a creature.
3) why aren't you playing any cards that benefit from a painter in play other than grindstone? what color do you plan to name? There are many ways to approach this, black for cards like reap and compost, blue for cards like red blast red for some of the white hate and blue blast.  In general people go with blue because red blast doesn't suck without painter.
4) null rod is incompatible with your win conditions and one or the other should be removed.  If you're planning to win by activating an artifact null rod is a PROBLEM for your deck.  If you like null rod you need to find another win condition.
5) you're playing 19 mana sources and no real draw engine.  3 meditate and 1 top does not a draw engine make.  Have you considered Bazaar?  Moxes and lotus come to mind.
6) your disruption suite appears to be insufficient to support meditate.  if your opening hand is disruptive enough that you can cast meditate, you won't need to meditate, if your opening disruption is insufficient meditate is unlikely to provide enough protection to get you through your opponent's turn.

That's what I've got for now, I'm sure other people will have other comments.


EDIT: you posted while I was typing.  Regardless of whether proxies go away, which they probably won't, the Open forum is not the correct place to post ideas that play suboptimal cards for monetary reasons.  It is also not the place to post untested ideas.  It is also not the place to post decks that even the OP doesn't believe can win a tournament (how most of us would define competitive).  For all those things there is the improvement forum.

[AshThaReaper804]

Here are my comments right now:

1) why are you playing painter/grindstone in this deck?  If only for the random colorless "I win" factor why is this not leyline/helm?
2) why are you playing 4 grindstones? It does nothing on it's own and 2 are redundant, come to think of it...so is painter in this deck, but at least it's a creature.
3) why aren't you playing any cards that benefit from a painter in play other than grindstone? what color do you plan to name? There are many ways to approach this, black for cards like reap and compost, blue for cards like red blast red for some of the white hate and blue blast.  In general people go with blue because red blast doesn't suck without painter.
4) null rod is incompatible with your win conditions and one or the other should be removed.  If you're planning to win by activating an artifact null rod is a PROBLEM for your deck.  If you like null rod you need to find another win condition.
5) you're playing 19 mana sources and no real draw engine.  3 meditate and 1 top does not a draw engine make.  Have you considered Bazaar?  Moxes and lotus come to mind.
6) your disruption suite appears to be insufficient to support meditate.  if your opening hand is disruptive enough that you can cast meditate, you won't need to meditate, if your opening disruption is insufficient meditate is unlikely to provide enough protection to get you through your opponent's turn.

That's what I've got for now, I'm sure other people will have other comments.

1 I like the combo, in fact I love it, I'll sideboard in the Leyline if you're running Gaea's blessing

2 Ever heard of Jester's Cap it takes 3 cards, it's happened to me before, 4 copies is correct, you are not thinking about all the possibilities that disable the combo.

3 I'm calling green work with that and find out that it wont help or hurt me

4 Null rod is sweet, and I'll surprise you when I destroy it with a Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mana Vault on the table to be used to combo off.

5 Bazaar is a good idea, I like it, but I would have to utilize the graveyard a little more to warrant that.

6 You only meditate when your hand is burnt, it's not for opening hand use

[Purple Hat]

Ash,
I mean this in the nicest way possible.  TMD is a place for developing serious deck ideas for serious tournament play.  We are not here to test any random idea you come up with regardless of whether it seems to have merit.  If you would like to see the type of post that is expected when introducing a deck to the open forum please read The Atog Lord's thread "meditations on mystic remora."  Rich put in extensive testing and presented a comprehensive story of the development of the deck describing internal synergies and why he thinks the deck works and anyone else should pick it up. 

You need to provide better justifications for why you are devoting 8 cards to a non synergistic combo than "I like this combo"
Why you're playing 4 of something than "I might get hit by a random jester's cap."  This REEKS of the fear.  by standard deck building rules you play 4 of cards that you NEED to have early, cards that you're never unhappy to see a second of or cards that are otherwise always useful.  A good example would be force of will.  You play 4 force of will because you NEED to see one early or you risk losing to combo.  Duress also falls in this category.  An example of things you'd never be unhappy to see a second of would be something like tarmygoyf the first one is good, the second one ends the game twice as fast. Dark ritual in storm combo is a good example of a generally useful spell. Cards may fill more than one of these criteria (sphere is a card STAX needs early, wouldn't mind having 2 of and generally finds pretty useful, same for force of will, mana drain and dark ritual in the decks that typically play those cards).  Grindstone meets NONE of these justifications.  you don't need it early, you only need it once you have a painter.  a second one does nothing the first one doesn't, it isn't generally useful if grindstone shows up at some point in the game, which it probably will, because it's a 4 of.  Some fish builds don't even play 4 Null Rods because the second one is dead, and it's the best card in their deck.

the fact that you're planning to call green highlights my point.  Painter and grindstone don't have any synergy with your deck.  You're just throwing them in here because they make you happy.  There's lots of cards that I like....that doesn't mean that I play them all together regardless of whether they do anything together that's good.  I've always loved the Trix combo.  I don't play it in Tezzeret control.

Null Rod: I've always liked Chalice of the void and sphere of resistence.  I don't play them in my storm decks.  Why?  Because I've found that spending my time disrupting my own deck makes it easier for my opponent to win.  If he wins, I lose.  I don't like losing.

Bazaar+squee would be considerably better than what you have here, and it probably wouldn't be very good.  It allows you to dig through your deck to find other lands.  I mentioned bazaar because the only times I've successfully run as few as 19 mana sources I was either playing GAT or Dragon.  Gush being restricted and all...bazaar presented itself.

vintage decks are too good at winning if you give them a free turn, even through simple disruption.  You're not playing a robust enough disruption suite to cast meditate when you'll need to.  If you can resolve all your disruption and win in a timely fashion you won't need to meditate, if you can't and you meditate you won't be able to prevent your opponent from just killing you.

You're only playing 19 mana sources, no basics and no fetches.  3 of them are wasteland.

If you're just going to play cards you like, regardless of whether they're any good together, and you're not interested in justifying your choices or changing the choices that are unjustifiable I have to ask, why did you even post?

[Tha Gunslinga]

I'm pretty sure Sui Black wrecks this deck.  Have you considered splashing Green for Whirling Dervish and Lifeforce in the sb?

[LotusHead]

2 Ever heard of Jester's Cap it takes 3 cards, it's happened to me before, 4 copies is correct, you are not thinking about all the possibilities that disable the combo.

Jester's Cap is pretty rare. I know, I play them. If your combo doesn't work, you need a plan B, which will likely be beatdown.

If you must insist on playing Null Rod Grindstone, take out the ridiculously bad Meditates and replace them with Dark Confidants.

[Demonic Attorney]

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