Deck to come back after two years out of vintage

[shirow79]

Hello,

this is my first post so Ill make a short presentation. Feel free to scroll down XD

Ive been reading TMD for years but always thought I was a little too casual to post. Or shameful. Now I joined and Ill tell you why: I started playing with revised, did a lot of casual and multiplayer but soon started to feel I wanted more. Looked for tournaments, joined some, learned about types and when I noticed I was into vintage (was a different name back then ^ ^) Even managed to win some tournaments. But work, life, money, etc. made me lost time/intererest/will to keep playing. Time Spiral was the last one I really saw. Ive been buying a few cards on each set, just in the case I came back, just to complete decks I could improve. So now for the real:

I feel something inside me, something warm and fuzzy telling me to play magic once again! And Im searching for help:
-Ive bought some cards for each expansion, even if I was not playing them but...
-Two years ago I sold every piece of power 9 (never had lotus tho), the drains and the bazaars I had. Everything else is still here.

I ask for some advice of what to play as a good entry "budget" deck as a start for the return, down some guidelines:
-Back ago I played keeper, love it back then but I dont want control right now. Also miss pack+drains.
-Also played combo but only twice on tournaments. Loved tendrils, but also played dragon, chalbercher, stasis (¿?)
-Always been a love of aggro. Stompy, my real love, got me some records, and also played gro, goblins, suicide, monoW, jurassic, etc
-Got cards to make almost any deck except for power, drains or bazaar/workshops.

Was thinking on ichorid. Seems solid, enough aggro and comboish to satisfy me, and no need for power nor reactive control measures, Ill prefer to make something on my own but my Eureka deck never worked at 100%... maybe that ad nauseam tendrils could do.


¿So what do you think? ¿Any advice for a deck or way to start after some time disconnected? Thanks a lot!


PD: Moderators please move outside this forum if this is inapropiate. Also excuse that crappy english
Edit: Im not asking for a deck list, just some advice

[John Jones]

Well first off, most events are proxy so you can just play with 10-15 proxies making your deck a lot cheaper. If you don't feel like proxying, ichorid is pretty cheap except for the bazaars and they are pricey. You might want to check into ad nauseum combo or elf combo because those decks are also fairly cheap.

[shirow79]

Thanks for your reply.
I took a look at that elves deck and seems like only 50$ for a whole fun deck (I would only miss Heritage Druid to complete it).
Also toying with ichorid found that can put a reanimator deck, and ad nauseum is very powerful as far as I saw...

But proxies is not an option. There are not many proxy tournaments around here. And meta is filled with power. For example, last saturday tournament finished like this:
1st-Stacks
2nd-MUC Tezzeret
3rd-Manaless Ichorid
4th-Fish
5th-Gifts
6th-Gifts
7th-Stacks
8th-Fish
all using P9, workshops, drains...

do you think elves or unpowered long or even mana-ichorid can pass the cut on that meta?

[chrissss]

Well if you know your meta, you can use it to play anti power.

perhaps a fish build, with loads of artifact hate and cheap utility creatures and chalice of the void, null rods etc? Fish is pretty cheap to play with, and it doesn't really need power.

[Lurker101]

Here's a cheap deck I made (excluding the library of alexandria in it) to combat blue and artifact heavy metagames: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37014.0

If you're worried about Ichorid and gifts too you might want to throw in a few tormod's crypts.

[shirow79]

mmm that's true, knowing the meta I can try to focus on some main hate, or simply a deck with a good pairing...

@chrissss: fish is something above my comprehension, I still dont get it, is slow for a beatdown deck, dont have many silver bullets nor much control, and the utility received from creatures is sub-par, but still is an impressive deck winning to many, where is the strenght of fish? dont get me wrong, I know is my fault and seems like a good option, but what Im missing about fish? If I can understand ill give it a try!

@Lurker101: saw that Counterintelligence on your post, root maze is powerful enough to shut down many decks. Always loved that card!

I think I get the idea, as I know what will I face, I should choose a deck viable on that meta, maindeck hate and utility... something is on my mind is whispering... brb ^ ^

[sWoRdFiSh`]

@chrissss: fish is something above my comprehension, I still dont get it, is slow for a beatdown deck, dont have many silver bullets nor much control, and the utility received from creatures is sub-par, but still is an impressive deck winning to many, where is the strenght of fish?

Fish is a kind of deck that capitalizes on the strengths of its opponents' decks.
It's mostly mana denial (Null Rod -> Mox; Strip/Waste -> Duals; Stifle -> Fetch lands) combined with efficient and irritating creatures (Meddling Mage, Ethersworn Canonist, Cursecatcher, etc), some countermagic and/or discard (FoW, Duress, Negate, Thoughtseize) and a decent punch (Jotun Grunt, Tarmogoyf, etc).
Since all contending Vintage decks nowadays have very focused strategies on winning the game, it would be easy (or relatively easy) for Fish to attack its main goal (i.e. cast a Tendrils for 20).
Now instead of Fish' opponent getting right on with its plan, it would have to deal with cards like say, Null Rod first.
All the while cards like FoW, Stifle, Negate, Thoughtseize, Cursecatcher and Aven Mindcensor are disrupting all efforts that the opponent are exerting to get rid of the "problem card" and/or get on with its main plan.
And while the opponent is trying desperately to get rid of the problem card, other potentially problematic cards are joining the fun, like say Meddling Mage, Ethersworn Canonist and Dark Confidant; and of course such cards swing for damage too.

The weakness of Fish lies in the fact that while some cards are brutal against a few decks, some would almost do nothing against the others.
It's also weak against decks that employ multiple strategies in winning the game.
So one should properly metagame before running Fish in a tournament.
And that's what Fish is mostly about: it's a metagame deck.
Some builds will work well in some matagames, other versions would run more smoothly on the others.

So if you want to run a "hate deck", Fish is probably a good choice for you.
But then again it really requires a lot of patience and experience, so you might want to get started on the department right away.

[shirow79]

@sWoRdFiSh: Woah that was a mini-primer on Fish ^ ^ Its pretty clear for me now, fish is somehow a hate deck, but must be piloted by someone with good knowledge of the meta and the card pool is more dinamic than I thought...

I had the intention of staying away of blue until I had a better understanding of the current situation but the way you people talk about fish is a heavier fighter than it seems. Ethersworn Canonist is a mini Arcane Laboratory that can attack, Cursecatcher is a force spike on legs...

Following the same strategy, wouldn't a red/green deck be equally efective but faster on the clock? comes to mind root maze, pyrostatic pillar, lot of artifact hate... and decent utility creatures. Sure, no counters can make a difference. Blue guys are more irritating I agree XD

Forget it, I thing that now that I see that fish can pack something like Jotun Grunt or Tarmogoyf its much more attractive to me. Ill go find that Meddling Mages and see what fairies can join the ranks. Ill came back soon with a pile!

thanks to all of you for your time

[sWoRdFiSh`]

@shirow79:

You are correct with your assumption re: RG Fish-type decks vs typical U-based Fish.
People here usually categorize R-based hate decks as a different archetype altogether (and for good reason), with TMWA (the mountains win again) as its predecessor.
Typical colors are RW, RG and RWG.
A good place to start would be:

Topic: [Premium Article] SMIP: Vintage On a Budget -- Christmas (R/G) Beatings!

The above deck also doesn't require power, so it would be perfect if your meta doesn't allow proxies.
Best of luck with the deck!

[honestabe]

Hello,

this is my first post so Ill make a short presentation. Feel free to scroll down XD

Ive been reading TMD for years but always thought I was a little too casual to post. Or shameful. Now I joined and Ill tell you why: I started playing with revised, did a lot of casual and multiplayer but soon started to feel I wanted more. Looked for tournaments, joined some, learned about types and when I noticed I was into vintage (was a different name back then ^ ^) Even managed to win some tournaments. But work, life, money, etc. made me lost time/intererest/will to keep playing. Time Spiral was the last one I really saw. Ive been buying a few cards on each set, just in the case I came back, just to complete decks I could improve. So now for the real:

I feel something inside me, something warm and fuzzy telling me to play magic once again! And Im searching for help:
-Ive bought some cards for each expansion, even if I was not playing them but...
-Two years ago I sold every piece of power 9 (never had lotus tho), the drains and the bazaars I had. Everything else is still here.

I ask for some advice of what to play as a good entry "budget" deck as a start for the return, down some guidelines:
-Back ago I played keeper, love it back then but I dont want control right now. Also miss pack+drains.
-Also played combo but only twice on tournaments. Loved tendrils, but also played dragon, chalbercher, stasis (¿?)
-Always been a love of aggro. Stompy, my real love, got me some records, and also played gro, goblins, suicide, monoW, jurassic, etc
-Got cards to make almost any deck except for power, drains or bazaar/workshops.

Was thinking on ichorid. Seems solid, enough aggro and comboish to satisfy me, and no need for power nor reactive control measures, Ill prefer to make something on my own but my Eureka deck never worked at 100%... maybe that ad nauseam tendrils could do.


¿So what do you think? ¿Any advice for a deck or way to start after some time disconnected? Thanks a lot!


PD: Moderators please move outside this forum if this is inapropiate. Also excuse that crappy english
Edit: Im not asking for a deck list, just some advice

I feel that right now, Goblin Welder/MindSLaver and Time Vault combo are the best