Mini-Primer: Miroir Magique (New budget combo deck)

[Raph Caron]

After some playtesing, here is my current build: (Sorry, the deck name is in french!!  )
Martin Bonneville
Deck: Mirroire Magique (From team Québec)

Sorry Martin, but this isn't French! "Miroir" would be more appropriate.

Perhaps a victory at the upcoming Quebec Vintage Championship will convince our friends abroad better than any primer that you'll write.

[Wagner]

After some playtesing, here is my current build: (Sorry, the deck name is in french!!  )
Martin Bonneville
Deck: Mirroire Magique (From team Québec)

Sorry Martin, but this isn't French! "Miroir" would be more appropriate.

Perhaps a victory at the upcoming Quebec Vintage Championship will convince our friends abroad better than any primer that you'll write.

So you mean the current tread title "Mirrorire Magique" is not right either?!? 

[Chiz]

First of the kill I always thought goblin cannon was the way to go for a colorless kill.  It will cost you 44 mana which may be too much, but it seems possible and may be easier then finding a colored mana. 

Next I liked cards that not only helped you keep the combo going, but also helped you find channel for colorless mana.  I agree top is the best bet for this, but have you thought of supplementing it with a few scroll racks?  It's a colorless investment that not only lets you did 5-7 cards deeper, but can come down early to help you find channel or protection from channel in the first place.  May be worth testing in a few of the fabricate slots. 

I didn't knew Goblin Cannon. That's interresting.
As for Scroll Rack, I never though about it... Thanks for sharing this! 

Perhaps a victory at the upcoming Quebec Vintage Championship will convince our friends abroad better than any primer that you'll write.

I doubt... Have you seen what happen when they saw that I top8ed with "Le 5e Élément"  in last year CVQ final?   It seems that for some person, if this deck isn't played where they play (or it was not reavealed by some deckduilder), they will bash it, no matter what... I find it bad.

The biggest problem with the deck is that it is not explosive (which you generally want a combo deck like this to be) enough so that it can get

Well... I play Channel, then, I get lot of Mana, draw lot of cards and win more than 95% of the time. That is not explosive enough!?

How often do you kill with Kaervek's Torch versus Memory Jar? Memory Jar seems like a risky deal. I can imagine playing jar one or two times just to grab the right hand, but milling through someone's deck is opening yourself to Force of Will's needlessly, although I doubt with all the filtering that you run into a hand without any pacts.

Memory Jar is not a good play against control deck. Against the other decks, that's almost better than a Lich's Mirror, since it let you draw 7 card and it lets you remove useless cards from your hand. You usually will find your Torch before actually killing with the Jar...

EDIT: Have you tried Brainfreeze? It reduces the requirements for non- mana and has some synergy with jar the same way confidant beats has synergy with tendrils.

EDIT 2: If you have a Jar and a Sensei in play, you can take the top card of your library before cracking your Memory Jar to replay it and up your storm count by 1 which helps a tiny bit with brainfreeze

Brainfreeze isn't tutorable as easily as the Torch. Brainfreeze requires you to sometimes, have a storm count of 18 to kill the opponent and you don't always have that storm count when you win.
By t he way, the best thing to accelerate the storm is with two Top I think...

[Negator13]

Well I goldfished a few times and I ran into problems while going off where I only had colorless mana and couldn't cast Fabricates or Personal Tutors to keep going; so having more mana filters in the form of Spheres would help there. And you are running lots of 3 and 5 mana cards so I feel like having the other three moxen (at least Jet) and Sol Ring/Crypt/Vault would get you off the ground faster.

[Wagner]

Well I goldfished a few times and I ran into problems while going off where I only had colorless mana and couldn't cast Fabricates or Personal Tutors to keep going; so having more mana filters in the form of Spheres would help there. And you are running lots of 3 and 5 mana cards so I feel like having the other three moxen (at least Jet) and Sol Ring/Crypt/Vault would get you off the ground faster.

Mirror is pretty much crap without Channel, except against burn, you don't want to cast a lone Mirror and not go off. When you do go off, they are just more dead cards. If you cut lands to play them, you might find it hard to get that GG for channel or be even more vulnerable to Wasteland. The only upside would be to be able to Top a little better pre-combo.

To go off, you need GG for channel and as much blue as you can to set up for tutors after draw 7s, none of those accels help you there. A build with 8 Star/Sphere and full Moxen would be to test, but somehow I feel they would just make more mulligan hands.

[the boogie man]

What about mox diamond? seems really good for setting up awkward gg and u requirements, is good mid combo for getting colored mana, and the lands go to the grave, so they are shuffled back in as well, taking care of diminishing returns. Testable? Rod already screws you.

I think scroll rack is an excellent idea, allowing you to really dig with giving the opponent 7 more.

[Chiz]

Mox Diamond have been tested before (as a one of). WHile it's good when comboing, that's pretty much always useless before comboing. Remember that you play only 15 lands.
Chrome Mox was better than Mox Diamond, it allows you to thin your deck while comboing. Unfortunatly, Chrome Mox won't gives you  to cast Channel (unless you play Manamorphose).

[John Jones]

More testing results:

Workshop: they chalice on 2 you lose thats it you can't actually win except for plats which you have to find then some how get enough mana for it when they have spheres, wires, and a clock.

Dreadnaught: If they drop a turn 1 dreadnaught or colossus you lose unless you have tinker+Platnium or Mox+ land+channel+Mirror. Also, turn 1 thoughtseize severly hurts.


the problem with the deck is that it is just strictly inferior to belcher and TPS. If any deck has any clock on you, you might not have enough mana to combo especially when you take damage from 8 of your own lands. You are super vulnerable to wasteland + Crucible and unless you hit lotus or your moxen you can't actually cast the channel.

The deck frequently doesn't have enough colored mana to re-cast fabricates and tutors. (We have been testing 3x eggs in the deck cutting plat, 1 top, and an orchard)


What the deck needs is channel un-restricted and people who don't play cards.

[Chiz]

Workshop: they chalice on 2 you lose thats it you can't actually win except for plats which you have to find then some how get enough mana for it when they have spheres, wires, and a clock.

You have a sideboard for that reason... Shattering spree is easily tutorable and can be really good...

Dreadnaught: If they drop a turn 1 dreadnaught or colossus you lose unless you have tinker+Platnium or Mox+ land+channel+Mirror.

Ok, let's see...
He's on the play.

Turn1:
Him: Drop Dreadnaught or colossus.
You: Land, Personnal Tutor (Channel)

Turn 2:
Him: Attack for 12 (You're at 8)
You: Land, Channel + Lich's Mirror. (You're at 3, meaing you can still play FoW, Top... And you can have Pact to protect you too)

Hum... No, I don't automaticaly loose to a 1st turn Dreadnought or Colossus. Sorry.

What the deck needs is channel un-restricted and people who don't play cards.

That's funny that I played 3 tournaments (21 rounds in total!) and had good results with the deck... I'm lucky enough that most of my opponent didn't played cards!!

I don't say this deck can't loose. Obviously, it can loose, like any other deck. But, I can tell you for sure that this deck can win far more than you think (which is near to 0%...).
 
By the way... Cutting a Top of a sphere is worng in my opinion, since Top is really good in this deck. And you say that this deck is vulnerable to Waste effect and cut a land from the deck? Really??

[Miaou]

Having played three times against this deck in a tournament using a deck with alot of hate (4 Null Rod, 3 Chalice, 4 Duress, 4 Thoughtseize, 3 Gaddock Teeg...) I can say that the first time I lost due to the surprise factor. I had no clue what was going on and it was enough to win.
Second time my opponent wasn't too familiar with the deck and it showed. I was easily able to take him out.

However during the third match (in the T4 of a 24 man tournament) playing Martin who built the deck it was different. I should have taken game one as I had a Tarmogoyf beating and a Chalice out, however his mirror meant that he would always reset the game. He did it once, and it was ok. The second time I was ready for it but never drew a black mana source to take out the Channel in his hand, and he comboed out in my face.

Game 2 once again I had solid disruption (Chalice and Null Rod) and a Goyf once again, but the mirrors always reset the beats. Then he played an Ancestral Recall into a Shattering Spree, used his top and got what he needed to kill me

So I think that the main difference in the deck's performance is the pilot. I smashed the weaker one, but couldn't take out the deck's creator. The deck is solid, but don't dismiss it after a few tries with it.

[Chiz]

So I think that the main difference in the deck's performance is the pilot. I smashed the weaker one, but couldn't take out the deck's creator. The deck is solid, but don't dismiss it after a few tries with it.

I have to agree with you. The pilot makes a big difference. I've seen Lany and Kristofer playing this deck and I can tell you they don't play it optimally. The deck doesn't play itself as easily as Dredge for exemple. You have obvious hands where you should Top tutor 1st turn, other hands where you shouldn't (and some where you should/shouldn't depending of the deck you face).

Sometimes, you need to be really creative with this deck too. I remember a situation where I had a Mirror into play and I didn't have Channel... I killed myself with 2 draws (Star) in the stack with the trigger from City of brass. I was able to toptutor a Channel the same turn and won the very next turn with double backup.

[saspook]

I know you would lose some of the tricks of the Top, but have you considered using Scroll Rack instead?

Dropping one and drawing a fresh six after a Mirror reset seems like it would be very close to a Memory Jar.

[neotrophy]

Scroll Rack definitely seems a good fit for the deck.  13 cards > 10 cards, more cards = good.

I was thinking maybe Street Wraith belonged here, but I think that if you were going to add Cycling to thin the deck, you'd probably be better of with just about any of the myriad cards that cycle for .  Actually, cycling lands might not be a bad idea, maybe a Slippery Karst or two, so you can get rid of a worthless producing land when you're comboing out, but CiP tapped is a dealbreaker, I guess.  Rebuild to get rid of nasty Null Rods seems a good idea, at least for the sideboard, but the cycling should put it into consideration for the main deck, IMHO.

[Chiz]

LIke I said, Scroll Rack needs to be tested.

Street Wraith: I would prefer having a Chromatic Sphere instead. When you combo, Street Wraith is: Pay  and draw a card. Chromatic Sphere is: pay  , add  or  or  to your mana pool and draw a card. Which one is better!?

Actually, cycling lands might not be a bad idea, maybe a Slippery Karst or two, so you can get rid of a worthless producing land when you're comboing out, but CiP tapped is a dealbreaker, I guess. 

I think it's a really bad idea. CIP Tapped means that you wins at lleast 1 turn later. Add to that that you want to have  or  to find Channel, so I don't think those are a good Idea.

[John Jones]

Another huge problem with this deck is it has a very low chance to get a turn 1 win where as TPS and Belcher are higher.

I love the concept of the deck, I love the deck, I love the random cards in it, but sometimes you just have to realize that there are better decks.

[policehq]

Another huge problem with this deck is it has a very low chance to get a turn 1 win where as TPS and Belcher are higher.

I love the concept of the deck, I love the deck, I love the random cards in it, but sometimes you just have to realize that there are better decks.

Belcher is definitely not one of those better decks. And neither is Meandeck Sex, even though both of these have a higher percent chance of winning on turn 1. That does not define a good deck.

You're desperate to prove your original post saying this deck is bad, even though everyone addressed how you misplayed the deck. It's performed well in several tournaments even through the complaints you're making. Why hold on with your fingernails?

You say "another huge problem" as if Chiz conceded that your last post was correct, but he addressed both of your concerns with the deck (dreadnought and colossus), proving the deck can win through this situation. You're ignoring his answer and acting as if you're adding to a list of problems. Please stop.

[Chiz]

You say "another huge problem" as if Chiz conceded that your last post was correct, but he addressed both of your concerns with the deck (dreadnought and colossus), proving the deck can win through this situation. You're ignoring his answer and acting as if you're adding to a list of problems. Please stop.

Quote for truth!

I love the concept of the deck, I love the deck, I love the random cards in it, but sometimes you just have to realize that there are better decks.

There is always a better deck, unless you play the best deck, no? So... We should all play the best deck, no matter what!? If everyone play this "best deck" except for one player, playing a "sub-par" deck having a 80% chance of winning against the "best deck", who is most likely to win the tournament!?
Like it or not (you probalby don't like it...), this deck is competitive. My decklist may not be the best one for this deck, maybe, but this deck is competitive. You add really nothing to the discussion.

[xwt]

This deck has penetrated our metagame, but it's not yet something that'll cross over to other parts of the world. The fact that it's gameplan necessits the resolution of either one or another of 2 restricted sorceries warrants a lack in popularity and a high autodismissal rate. Nevertheless, I admit that even if I'll never play it, it's a force to be reckoned.

A couple months ago, before the last CVQ qualification, I sleved up my Tezzeret control deck and faced Kristopher's Miroir Magique in a ... 5-0 playtest session I think. You took the deck and soundly beat me 2-0 thereafter. Then the next day, at the CVQ, who had the better record? You with Dragon? No. Me with Tez? No. Kristopher with Miroir Magique.

There are severeal critics that can be adressed to this deck, as there is no perfect deck. Aside from Gaddock Teeg, this deck can pretty much win through any hate creatures. And even Gaddock Teeg is better to be aided by several artifact destruction spells in order to break the pact protection on platinum angel if you go the alternate tinker route.

While a timely Duress will make me win, and make you lose, it is the case for many decks and many more to come. I first didn't want to admit it, but it is a competitive, and wicked fun, deck. Fun to play, though, not to face.

[Son of Serra]

How about this build:

x1  Channel
x4  Lich's Mirror
x4  Planar Portal

x1  Banefire
x1  Regrowth

x4  Manamorphose
x4  Elvish Spirit Guide
x4  Simian Spirit Guide

x4  Pact of Negation
x4  Duress
x1  Chain of Vapor
x1  Rebuild

x4  Personal Tutor
x1  Demonic Tutor
x1  Vampiric Tutor
x1  Mystical Tutor

x1  Black Lotus
x1  Lotus Petal
x1  Mox Sapphire
x1  Mox Emerald
x1  Mox Ruby
x1  Mox Jet

x3  Tropical Island
x3  Wooded Foothills
x3  Windswept Heath
x2  Bayou
x3  Forest

Focus on resolving Channel quickly with mild disruption from Duress and Pacts. Assume to have either a Planar Portal or a Lich's Mirror in hand when you need to "channel out". Use a Forest-based fetchland package to to get double green mana through Wasteland hate. Use the Spirit Guides as soon as you find them and float the mana into the next mirror iteration when you aren't ready to "fireball" (the Spirit Guide mana may hit a Manamorphose on the next iteration).

This approach is designed in my Workshops-heavy metagame, but with a proper sideboard and it could quickly adjust to your metagame.

[John Jones]

How about this build:

x1  Channel
x4  Lich's Mirror
x4  Planar Portal

x1  Banefire
x1  Regrowth

x4  Manamorphose
x4  Elvish Spirit Guide
x4  Simian Spirit Guide

x4  Pact of Negation
x4  Duress
x1  Chain of Vapor
x1  Rebuild

x4  Personal Tutor
x1  Demonic Tutor
x1  Vampiric Tutor
x1  Mystical Tutor

x1  Black Lotus
x1  Lotus Petal
x1  Mox Sapphire
x1  Mox Emerald
x1  Mox Ruby
x1  Mox Jet

x3  Tropical Island
x3  Wooded Foothills
x3  Windswept Heath
x2  Bayou
x3  Forest

Focus on resolving Channel quickly with mild disruption from Duress and Pacts. Assume to have either a Planar Portal or a Lich's Mirror in hand when you need to "channel out". Use a Forest-based fetchland package to to get double green mana through Wasteland hate. Use the Spirit Guides as soon as you find them and float the mana into the next mirror iteration when you aren't ready to "fireball" (the Spirit Guide mana may hit a Manamorphose on the next iteration).

This approach is designed in my Workshops-heavy metagame, but with a proper sideboard and it could quickly adjust to your metagame.

The problem with this list is that it doesn't run fabricate. You really need fabricate pre-combo so you can reliably find Mirror. Portal is real good when you're mid combo but early on it's the worse.

Also, just because someone did well with the deck at 2-3 tournaments doesn't mean the deck is perfect.
1) They could have had favorable pairings
2) They could have had opponents who make frequent misplays
3) They could have been a better player.

It is like during extended last season.
Faeries won 2-3 PTQ's right at the end of the season. Was it the best deck, no. Did the people meta-game properly, probabaly.

See, you compared this deck to flash. It is nothing like flash at all and thats what has me on this rant. For this deck do even be considered a better combo deck than flash/belcher/TPS It has to have a pretty high turn 2 kill rate through disruption which, in my testing, this doesn't have. Now, I may have been in  a worse position because the people I playtested with know of this deck so they expected what this deck does.

Also, Having played against the deck, I would say it is pretty easy to stop. All you have to do is stop channel or the ways to get channel.
Another thing is post board against Shop decks that bring in Jesters cap. If they bring this in and crack it, you lose thats it. You can not win. They take Chanel, Plats, and Jar. GG sir.
Also, you said that you can still win with a gaddok in play via Plats. Well, from my experience if they have gaddok in play you they are either running stp main/board or a way to get rid of artifacts or a way to get rid of platnium... I mean they are only playing green and you need to get Tinker+Plats because you don't actually run any acceleration and I could argue that any decent fish build will have you dead by turn 7.

[Son of Serra]

The problem with this list is that it doesn't run fabricate. You really need fabricate pre-combo so you can reliably find Mirror. Portal is real good when you're mid combo but early on it's the worse.

I disagree that Planar Portal is worse than Fabricate. With Fabricate, you need U to find a Lich's Mirror after casting Channel. With Planar Portal, all you need is 12 colorless mana from channel. And as you said, mid-combo it is just amazing!

I agree that this is not Flash, but it is a very fun semi-competitive deck!

[John Jones]

What are you talking about? You need a way to find the mirror pre combo. In your list you have 2 black tutors and 4 mirror. Not enough tutors imo. Also, not running Imperial Seal or Tinker also seems like a mistake, but maybe that is just me.

One thing I do like though is the inclusion of spirit guides and mana morphose. We tried a new build the other night running those and it seemed to work out better but it still wasn't good enough.

[Son of Serra]

What are you talking about? You need a way to find the mirror pre combo. In your list you have 2 black tutors and 4 mirror. Not enough tutors imo. Also, not running Imperial Seal or Tinker also seems like a mistake, but maybe that is just me.

One thing I do like though is the inclusion of spirit guides and mana morphose. We tried a new build the other night running those and it seemed to work out better but it still wasn't good enough.

Okay, here is how Planar Portal is better:

Opening Hand:

Wooded Foothills
Mox Ruby
Personal Tutor
Elvish Spirit Guide
Planar Portal
Pact of Negation
Chain of Vapor

Turn 1:

Play Wooded Foothills for Tropical Island.
Cast Mox Ruby
Tap Tropical Island for U
Cast Personal Tutor and put Channel on top of your library

Turn 2:

Draw Channel
Tap Mox Ruby for R
Tap Tropical Island for G
Remove Elvish Spirit Guide from the game for G
Cast Channel
Create 6 colorless mana with Channel, lose 6 life
Cast Planar Portal
Create 6 colorless mana with Channel, lose 6 life
Activate Planar Portal and put Lich's Mirror into your hand
Create 5 colorless mana with Channel, lose 5 life
Cast Lich's Mirror
Create 3 colorless mana with Channel, lose 3 life, Lich's Mirror activates
(note: you are floating 3 colorless mana and R)

New Hand:

Banefire
Forest
Forest
Duress
Lich's Mirror
Elvish Spirit Guide
Rebuild

Create 17 colorless mana with Channel, lose 17 life
Cast Banefire for 20!

Planar Portal is basically Lich's Mirror 5-8 after you cast Channel, so you do not need Fabricate and the additional U mana.

[Wagner]

What are you talking about? You need a way to find the mirror pre combo. In your list you have 2 black tutors and 4 mirror. Not enough tutors imo. Also, not running Imperial Seal or Tinker also seems like a mistake, but maybe that is just me.

One thing I do like though is the inclusion of spirit guides and mana morphose. We tried a new build the other night running those and it seemed to work out better but it still wasn't good enough.

Okay, here is how Planar Portal is better:

Opening Hand:

Wooded Foothills
Mox Ruby
Personal Tutor
Elvish Spirit Guide
Planar Portal
Pact of Negation
Chain of Vapor

Turn 1:

Play Wooded Foothills for Tropical Island.
Cast Mox Ruby
Tap Tropical Island for U
Cast Personal Tutor and put Channel on top of your library

Turn 2:

Draw Channel
Tap Mox Ruby for R
Tap Tropical Island for G
Remove Elvish Spirit Guide from the game for G
Cast Channel
Create 6 colorless mana with Channel, lose 6 life
Cast Planar Portal
Create 6 colorless mana with Channel, lose 6 life
Activate Planar Portal and put Lich's Mirror into your hand
Create 5 colorless mana with Channel, lose 5 life
Cast Lich's Mirror
Create 3 colorless mana with Channel, lose 3 life, Lich's Mirror activates
(note: you are floating 3 colorless mana and R)

New Hand:

Banefire
Forest
Forest
Duress
Lich's Mirror
Elvish Spirit Guide
Rebuild

Create 17 colorless mana with Channel, lose 17 life
Cast Banefire for 20!

Planar Portal is basically Lich's Mirror 5-8 after you cast Channel, so you do not need Fabricate and the additional U mana.

A problem with Portal is that you need 17 life when you combo, that means you can't be attacked at all and need to be quick every time. Also, Duress is good, but if you do want to go off turn 2 reliably, you want not have the extra mana for protection, leaving you with only 4 pacts.

Also, you can't Vampiric + Fetch if you only have Portal in hand.

I do however like the idea of a colored mana base with lands that won't screw you.

[Son of Serra]

A problem with Portal is that you need 17 life when you combo, that means you can't be attacked at all and need to be quick every time. Also, Duress is good, but if you do want to go off turn 2 reliably, you want not have the extra mana for protection, leaving you with only 4 pacts.

Also, you can't Vampiric + Fetch if you only have Portal in hand.

I do however like the idea of a colored mana base with lands that won't screw you.

Not exactly true on the Vamp + Fetch objection... You just need to draw extra free mana post-mirror or you need to draw into another mirror or portal.

Duress is a delay, but depending on the matchup it may be worth it to wait a turn to deal with the threat. Also, I would be likely to sideboard out Duresses for Guttural Response or REBs if I knew I was facing heavy counter magic.

[Chiz]

Son of Serra, I like how your deck works well against Sphere (It can even win turn 1, even though there was a 1st turn Trinisphere!!).
I like the 8 Spirit Guide Idea, especialy with Manamorphose and the Portal. That said, I have some concerns:
1- Isn't your deck more vulnerable to aggro decks!? You need 17 lifes to combo out half the time (when you have the portal and no Mirror) (ok, you can use Spirit guide, but still... If you lost already 5-6 lifes (from Fetch and creatures), the Portal becomes almost useless pre-combo and you will have more difficulties to combo.
2- Why no Imperial Seal!?
3- I simply don't like the Regrowth and Banfire... But I already talked about those.
4- Why 3 forests!? isn't 2 forest enough!? The 3rd forest should be something else (a Fetch or Bayou).

Well... That's it... What your sideboard looks like!?
I will at least goldfish your build. Very different, but interresting! 

[Son of Serra]

Son of Serra, I like how your deck works well against Sphere (It can even win turn 1, even though there was a 1st turn Trinisphere!!).
I like the 8 Spirit Guide Idea, especialy with Manamorphose and the Portal. That said, I have some concerns:
1- Isn't your deck more vulnerable to aggro decks!? You need 17 lifes to combo out half the time (when you have the portal and no Mirror) (ok, you can use Spirit guide, but still... If you lost already 5-6 lifes (from Fetch and creatures), the Portal becomes almost useless pre-combo and you will have more difficulties to combo.
2- Why no Imperial Seal!?
3- I simply don't like the Regrowth and Banfire... But I already talked about those.
4- Why 3 forests!? isn't 2 forest enough!? The 3rd forest should be something else (a Fetch or Bayou).

Well... That's it... What your sideboard looks like!?
I will at least goldfish your build. Very different, but interresting! 

I would generally sideboard the following cards:
x4  Zuran Orb
x4  Guttural Response
x3  Pithing Needle
x4  Leyline of the Void

Against Aggro:
+4  Zuran Orb
-4 Duress

Against Combo or Blue-Based Control:
+4  Guttural Response
-1  Chain of Vapor
-1  Rebuild
-1  Planar Portal
-1  Manamorphose

Against Ichorid:
+4  Leyline of the Void
+3  Pithing Needle
-1  Rebuild
-4  Pact of Negation
-2  Duress

Regarding Your 4 questions:
1.  Game one is tough, but the subsequent games with Zuran's orb will help. Again, win quickly!
2.  Imperial Seal is an option, but the loss of life hurts. At least with Vampiric Tutor, you can wait to use it at the end of the opponent's turn and see if they hurt you.
3.  I personallly think the "fireball" spell could be anything you want. The right move for the opponent is almost always to counter Channel, not the "fireball". I understand your point about Misdirection though... As far as Regrowth, I think I could get a countered Channel back into my hand faster with Regrowth than Timetwister, plus in my build Green in the base color.
4.  Because I hate Strip Mine!

[LotusHead]

While this deck looks like utter trash to me, others said the same thing about my first vintage deck that I build and played in tournies (and did well with, including winning power), and this thread has been a fascinating read so far. Kudos.

I did lose to this deck (or something like it) a few months ago. Probably piloted by a Wager/PoliceHQ type player.


I suspect that Channel will one day be unrestricted if nothing else than because it costs GG and sees no play ever for any reason other than Belcher decks. (Gush was unrestricted once...)

[M.Solymossy]

(Gush was unrestricted once...twice)

[nineisnoone]

While this deck looks like utter trash to me, others said the same thing about my first vintage deck that I build and played in tournies (and did well with, including winning power), and this thread has been a fascinating read so far. Kudos.

Agreed.  The deck looks so fantastically horrible.  But as I read it and try it out a bit I definitely am realizing this is several steps ahead of something on the level of "my first vintage deck"  and actually a very solid and intelligently made deck.  HUGE props to the designers and innovators.

Belcher is definitely not one of those better decks. And neither is Meandeck Sex, even though both of these have a higher percent chance of winning on turn 1. That does not define a good deck.

Can you explain why you think this is better than TPS?  To be perfectly honest, I can't dispute this one way or another because I don't have a deep enough understanding to evaluate the deck on that level.  You seem to be more familiar than many with the deck, so I'd be interested in hearing why you think it's better than TPS.