[card discussion] Lat-Nam's Legacy

[John Jones]

First: Mods, if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move.

Okay so I was shuffling up a proxied deck and the top card of the deck was Lich's Mirror. On the back of that card was Lat-Nam's Legacy. Now, I have never saw the card before so I did a quick search in the forums and only found it mentioned once in a ICBM Oath thread. As soon as I read the card I thought of Stragetic Planning, then I remembered how much I hated planning.

But here is the card

Lat-Nams Legacy 
Instant
Choose a card from your hand and shuffle that card into your library to draw two cards at the beginning of your next upkeep.

So I was thinking one of control slaver and DSC decks in general is its ability to get rid of its large machines during the early game. As of right now, there is 4x Thirst for knowlege and 1x Brainstorm + tutor effect. This card, it replaces it self, is an instant (played at opp eot), and gets rid of random jank you don't need in your hand.

Why hasn't this been considered for brainstorms replacement?
Has anyone tested the card?

[Fester]

Getting the draw ability Stifled is pretty bad.

[John Jones]

Getting the draw ability Stifled is pretty bad.

True but how many decks actually run md stifle?
I know in my area I see few if any.

[VorpalBunnyDuby]

Isn't brainstorm just a better card around 90% of the time?
Sure if you have a big artifact in your hand than lat-nam's might be better, however, if your playing thirst of knowledge don't you get the same effect?

[mgouthro]

Isn't brainstorm just a better card around 90% of the time?
Sure if you have a big artifact in your hand than lat-nam's might be better, however, if your playing thirst of knowledge don't you get the same effect?

Sure, Brainstorm is a great card and is also restricted. Thirst for Knowledge is a functionally different card as it will put 1-2 cards into your graveyard and not your deck. That may or may not be important due to graveyard hate and the actual game plan for the deck you play. Given Yawgmoth's Will, Goblin Welders, etc, that can be pretty important.

Also FYI, Lat-nam's Legacy will draw the cards at the next turn's upkeep...not just your own upkeep.

[Tha Gunslinga]

It's card parity, not advantage, and you can't play it when you have no cards in hand.

[bluemage55]

It's card parity, not advantage, and you can't play it when you have no cards in hand.

It's certainly card parity, but it's also virtual card advantage in the same way Brainstorm is.

Admittedly it's strictly inferior to Brainstorm, but could it not be useful for decks that do run a chunk of potentially dead cards, whether it's Oath or Slaver builds with more robots?  I'm particularly interested in the fact that Lat-Nam's is an instant.

Has anyone here tested Lat-Nam's, and how did it work out for you?

[timp]

It's card parity, not advantage, and you can't play it when you have no cards in hand.

It's certainly card parity, but it's also virtual card advantage in the same way Brainstorm is.

Admittedly it's strictly inferior to Brainstorm, but could it not be useful for decks that do run a chunk of potentially dead cards, whether it's Oath or Slaver builds with more robots?  I'm particularly interested in the fact that Lat-Nam's is an instant.

Has anyone here tested Lat-Nam's, and how did it work out for you?

i've only played it once in oath
and it is a one of and it is only good for the two creatures if they get stuck in your hand
it is basically playing a card to help your bad hand or a bad draw which means you should have mulligan'd and it can back fire because you might redraw what you threw away
overall brainstorm is better for dealing with the above situation

[chrissss]

Ok lets agree brainstorm is better, which is why it's restricted. you would run this card on top of brainstorm not instead.

I will give it a try now in my oath deck, I think its good for the creatures, gaea's blessing, 2nd oath or orachard, etc.

Btw, if this card gets countered, do you still shuffle the card back? Or isn't it part of the activation cost?

[timp]

if it gets counter you do nothing just like any other spell
it would say "as an additional cost..." shuffle a card into your library

[John Jones]

I guess I will try it out in my ctrl slaver build

[chrissss]

if it gets counter you do nothing just like any other spell
it would say "as an additional cost..." shuffle a card into your library

Dunno what happened, I edited to take that out after googling the rulings and erreta's of the cards, but internet was being weird so edit didn't go thorugh.

Anyways, I tested it, and it's a card which isn't reliable. If you are in topdeck mode, you are screwed. It's only good in a few cases, but not reliable enough for my linking. Still a good card though, I might use it again in a different build.

[Wollblad]

You could play a single copy in an Oath deck. In that case, it would take the spot otherwise reserved for Scroll Rack. The advantage with Lat-Nam's Legacy compared to Scroll Rack is that it's fetchable with Merchant Scroll.

I can also see a single copy being played in Tezzeret decks where you don't want to have Time Vault in your hand, and you don't want to discard it to Thirst. Hence, Lat-Nam's Legacy can be a great backup to your single Brainstorm.

Other than that I don't see the card as playable. It's of no use in Slaver decks where you'll be happy to discard the big artifacts to Thirst. It's of no use in storm-decks since you cannot wait for the next turn to draw the card.

[Troy_Costisick]

Lat-Nam's Legacy's best application is in an Oath or Flash build IMO.  If you don't need to shuffle combo components back into your library, it's a terrible card.  Any other use will just greet you with disapointment.

Peace,

-Troy

[Purple Hat]

You could play a single copy in an Oath deck. In that case, it would take the spot otherwise reserved for Scroll Rack. The advantage with Lat-Nam's Legacy compared to Scroll Rack is that it's fetchable with Merchant Scroll.

I can also see a single copy being played in Tezzeret decks where you don't want to have Time Vault in your hand, and you don't want to discard it to Thirst. Hence, Lat-Nam's Legacy can be a great backup to your single Brainstorm.

Other than that I don't see the card as playable. It's of no use in Slaver decks where you'll be happy to discard the big artifacts to Thirst. It's of no use in storm-decks since you cannot wait for the next turn to draw the card.

if you don't want to have timevault in your hand and you have 2 open mana wouldn't you just....cast time vault? seems to make sense.

[John Jones]

Ive tested it as a 2 of in my control slaver build and so far Ive liked when I draw it. I run a little more machines than everyone else, 1 slaver, 1 titan, 1 plats, 1 sharuum.

I have also used it to shuffle back yawgs will when I didn't want to see it in my hand and when I got duressed.

So far, I like the card

[gold eyes]

I have a friend that has been testing this card since brainstorm was restricted.It has worked well for him because it is simply a decent card as well as the fact that his metagame has a decent amount of black control with main deck graveyard hate. this works for him because it stops what ever he needs from being duressed/thought seized away. I'm not saying this card is good for every one but depending on play style and meta it could be a decent card.

[Wollblad]

if you don't want to have timevault in your hand and you have 2 open mana wouldn't you just....cast time vault? seems to make sense.

To play out Time Vault before Tezzeret gives your oponent time to find artifact removal, Pithing Needle or Null Rod. It is furthermore a (temporary) card loss since it does nothing on the game board until you find Tezzert or Key. It is then better to shuffle it away to find cards that brings your gameplan forward. I can agree that just playing Time Vault works against combo, but not in a metagame filled with artifact removal.

[mgouthro]

if you don't want to have timevault in your hand and you have 2 open mana wouldn't you just....cast time vault? seems to make sense.

To play out Time Vault before Tezzeret gives your oponent time to find artifact removal, Pithing Needle or Null Rod. It is furthermore a (temporary) card loss since it does nothing on the game board until you find Tezzert or Key. It is then better to shuffle it away to find cards that brings your gameplan forward. I can agree that just playing Time Vault works against combo, but not in a metagame filled with artifact removal.

I'd have to disagree with that. Shuffling the Time Vault away means that you have to do a lot more work to assemble your combo. Having the Time Vault on the table enables any one of many cards you draw to win the game on the spot. If your opponent then chooses to search out artifact removal, then you are forcing your opponent to change his gameplan first. At which point, you are no further ahead then when you shuffled the Time Vault away. If they destroy it beforehand, well, at some point you are going to have a juicy Yawg's Will.

I just don't see the value in stating that you'd rather shuffle away one of the two pieces of a combo you need to win. Especially not given there's no special circumstances involved.

[chrissss]

I tried the card some more in my new oath build (based around less many, which makes TFK too expensive most of the times) and this card  is nice. its great vs discard to protect the precious Blessing, or to get rid of a fetch land when you have all your lands in play. Though it just cantrips, TFK does net you one extra card if you have an artifact in your hand. The main annoyance is that you will win less FoW battles, since you cant dig for 3 to find that blue card. The upside of this card, is that its only  making it easy to cast early. Anyways, I will use it at the next vintage tournament I will attend, and see what happens.

[Godder]

I played with Lat-Nam's Legacy in Oath after Brainstorm and Ponder were restricted, and it was very useful as a way of shuffling in creatures/Blessings that I'd drawn, but the fact that it doesn't draw cards until next turn was sometimes a real nuisance. Being an Instant helps, but it's no good in the middle of a counter war, for example, or if you need an answer right now.