[Deck] Meditative Workshops

[Lurker101]

I don't have much experience playing workshop so I don't think this is an optimal list yet but I was thinking about a Master Transmuter workshop list that abused Meditate as well. Meditate seems like the perfect draw engine for workshop decks in that it allows you to skip removing fade counters from your tangle wires and avoid smokestack sacrificing for an additional turn while maintaining those locks for an additional turn as well. Here's the list:
//Lands: 20
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Workshop
12 Island

//Creatures: 8
2 Sundering Titan
2 Karn
4 Master Transmuter

//Spells: 32
1 Black Lotus
4 Tangle Wire
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Tinker
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Meditate
4 Smokestack

The deck should be pretty self explanatory, it's basically 9sphere Stax with a draw engine and a Transmuter to reset certain lock pieces and cheat artifacts into play for U.

[IthilanorStPete]

Ancestral, other mana artifacts, mystical?

[nineisnoone]

You definitely need the other artifact mana accelerators.  At that point you'll realize that you need to make a lot of decisions about what disruption you need to run.  You're running 9 Spheres, Smokestax, Wire, and Chalice.  You can't rely on Transmuter THAT much. 

Haven't extensively tested out this list yet, but this is what I last had.

see later post.

You'll note the lack of Wasteland/Crucible.  Probably heresy, but I think it's not that great.  Sure it'll random win, but I think it's kind of a weak play if it doesn't. 

[Lurker101]

Ancestral, other mana artifacts, mystical?

Whoops

@nineisnoone I really like your list, it's much better than mine. How has it been testing?

[nineisnoone]

At the moment when it works, it's really strong.  Most of your cards tend to be very strong on the opening draw.  Welder/Transmuter are nearly must counters due to the potential havok they will cause down the line.  Smokestack and Tangle Wire are also excellent opening plays.  Thirst is pretty good as well.  I'll probably cut REB for FoW, making both Mediate and FoW strong plays as well.

I especially like how Time Vault works well with Smokestack/Tangle Wire and Voltaic Key works with Transmuter. 

Mostly my problems with the functionality have been trying to balance the mana base.  Either not getting enough acceleration to play artifacts, or not getting enough colors to play your spells.  I traded away the Wastelands for Tombs to try and help out in that area. 

It's been pretty decent I've found.  It doesn't draw as smoothly as I'd like though.  But that's a bit natural for a Shop deck.

And this is my projected SB.  It's very tentative though.

4 Pyrostatic Pillar (Storm Combo)
4 Pithing Needle (Artifact Combo)
4 Dead/Gone (Creatures)
3 Red Elemental Blast (Blue Crap)

Dead/Gone is probably the highest on my cutting board.  I could also see running Fabricate.

[nineisnoone]

Tested it some more and realized my current configuration is too light on disruption (I had apparently cut them for something).  -4 Thirst, -4 Chalice of the Void.  Subsequent to that -4 FoW +4 REB. 

The loss of the ability to directly throw artifact into the graveyard is sad with Thirst is sad, but Chalice is good enough to make it worthwhile.  Plus, if they aren't countering/destroying something then they are either won the game or lost the game.  So Welder seems like it'd still be relevant when it matters.

Moved my list down, because I was getting annoyed having to scroll up.  And cut it from the earlier post, cause wasting space irritates me.

See later post

[Random Noob]

I would see Tezzeret as a Choice when you play Time Vault, he can also be used as a rough Karn, but its not as easy to cast him as Karn. When running Meditate i would like FoW much more than REB, because it can counter a Null Rod or an Oath. I would run Intuition over Fabricate because it has Synergy with Welder and Transmuter. I imagine an Intuition like Key, Key, Vault when Welder is out. Duplicant is a real good choice with Transmuter.

How does it work without Spheres ? I didn't test it that way yet.

[nineisnoone]

The Problem with Tezzeret is  .  Otherwise, I'd play him. 

FoW, my blue count got cut to add in Chalice.  I'm only at 10, and 14 with FoW.  Also Transmuter goes in and out of the deck depending on the opposing presence of Null Rod, so the blue count can get even smaller.  I would definitely run FoW, but at the moment I'm not sure what cuts I would make to enable it.

I like Fabricate because I don't feel Intuition is supported enough to warrant it here.  No Crucible.  No Deep Analysis.  No Reconstructions or even Academy Ruins.  Welder certainly is an option, but the ability to just get Vault/Key without any aid is fairly strong imo. 

That said I haven't tested it much though, it's more just a thought.  Also lets me get DSC/Duplicant for Transmuter and the potential to toolbox.  I may even run them main over Meditate.  Better without Smokestack/Tangle Wire.  And even decent with them as you can get Time Vault for double Smokestack sacrifices and Voltaic Key to get double Transmuter activations.  But again, not too experienced with the card but I feel it has potential.

As far as Spheres go, they aren't really necessary I've found.  Tangle/Chalice are pretty solid at slowing things down.  And I prefer Chalice to Spheres, because it's more one-sided and Chalice @ 2 is more useful against Tezzeret then Spheres.  The main deck is more Tezz focused though.  I probably would -1 Meditate -3 Smokestacks + 4 Thorn of Amethyst if I thought there would be more Storm Combo. 

Maybe the REBs could be changed into something anti-combo, like Pillars.  Recall/Rebuild isn't as bad here with Welder and ideally Smokestacks destroying their permanents.  Not sure.  Still has a way to go.

[Lurker101]

What about Mindlock Orb against combo?
Also maybe Esperzoa?
Here's my new list that's inspired by your previous list that has had some success on MWS. It's a really fun deck to play too.
Lands: 20
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
5 Island
4 Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Steam Vents
4 Volcanic Island

Creatures: 11
1 Sundering Titan
1 Karn
1 Duplicant
4 Master Transmuter
4 Goblin Welder

Spells: 29
1 Black Lotus
3 Tangle Wire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Tinker
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Meditate
3 Smokestack
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Mox Ruby
4 Force of Will
1 Mana Crypt
3 Fabricate

Sideboard:
1 Sundering Titan
1 DSC (against aggro)
2 Mindlock Orb (against combo)
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Thorn of Amethyst (against combo)
2 Cave-In                 (Against Fish)

[nineisnoone]

I had Mindlock in originally, but later cut it.  I can't say I was happy/unhappy with it; I hadn't done much testing with it at the time.  I just needed card space for the direction I was heading (I think it was at that point I added the Welders), and Mindlock had been a sort of generalized card. 

I don't really see Esperzoa here.  Between Welder/Transmuter, I think I have enough way to replay artifacts.

How is Sundering Titan working for you?  I had him originally,  but I was worried that playing him would knock out my own mana sources.  It kind of sucks if you have the only Volcano on the board and it is your only U/R source.  Has it been a huge drawback for you?  I've considered going 4x Brass 4x Reef 2x Glimmervoid, but that looks quite painful.  But I guess older 5 color Stax decks had mana bases like that.  Titan is a great card against many decks though.

Also, how is Fabricate?  Fabricate is more on my testing "to-do" list, than something I can speak of.  To me it looks like it could be pretty strong in this deck. 

Your list looks pretty solid.  Without testing it, I can't really say much else.  I'm a big fan of Karn, so I'm glad that he snuck his way in there.  I do think that DSC should make an appearance in the Main Deck.  Often, he is just the best choice for Tinker or Transmuter.

[Lurker101]

I had Mindlock in originally, but later cut it.  I can't say I was happy/unhappy with it; I hadn't done much testing with it at the time.  I just needed card space for the direction I was heading (I think it was at that point I added the Welders), and Mindlock had been a sort of generalized card. 

I don't really see Esperzoa here.  Between Welder/Transmuter, I think I have enough way to replay artifacts.

How is Sundering Titan working for you?  I had him originally,  but I was worried that playing him would knock out my own mana sources.  It kind of sucks if you have the only Volcano on the board and it is your only U/R source.  Has it been a huge drawback for you?  I've considered going 4x Brass 4x Reef 2x Glimmervoid, but that looks quite painful.  But I guess older 5 color Stax decks had mana bases like that.  Titan is a great card against many decks though.

Also, how is Fabricate?  Fabricate is more on my testing "to-do" list, than something I can speak of.  To me it looks like it could be pretty strong in this deck. 

Your list looks pretty solid.  Without testing it, I can't really say much else.  I'm a big fan of Karn, so I'm glad that he snuck his way in there.  I do think that DSC should make an appearance in the Main Deck.  Often, he is just the best choice for Tinker or Transmuter.

So far Fabricate usually ends up getting pitched to force, meditate usually works better for me. Also Sundering Titan has been working very well so far, he might knock out a land of your own every once in awhile but he usually provides enough disruption on the opponent's end that it doesn't matter. Also, I may cut something to bring in DSC maindeck but don't know what to cut yet.

[Lurker101]

I've tweaked the decklist and sideboard a little bit. Here's what I have now:
//Lands: 20
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
5 Island
4 Workshop
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Steam Vents
4 Volcanic Island

//Creatures: 11
1 Sundering Titan
1 Karn
4 Master Transmuter
4 Goblin Welder
1 DSC

//Spells: 29
1 Black Lotus
3 Tangle Wire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Tinker
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Meditate
3 Smokestack
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Voltaic Key
1 Time Vault
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
3 Fabricate
4 Force of Will

//Sideboard:
1 Duplicant (against Oath)
2 Mindlock Orb (against Oath and Combo)
4 Thorn of Amethyst ( against combo)
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Triskelion (against fish)

EDIT: I guess I didn't change the maindeck but only the sideboard.

[nineisnoone]

Tyrant Shop
4   Mishra's Workshop     
4   Volcanic Island     
4   Steam Vents
4   Shivan Reef
1   Tolarian Academy
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet   
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Sol Ring   
1   Mana Crypt
1   Mana Vault
1   Black Lotus   

3   Masticore
4   Goblin Welder
4   Master Transmuter

3   Chalice of the Void
3   Sphere of Resistance
3   Smokestack
1   Trinisphere
1   Tinker   
1   Ancestral Recall
3   Mystic Remora
4   Meditate
4   Force of Will

Added Remora over Tangle Wire, as it seemed like the superior card really.  It's gets my Blue count back where I want it to be.   Plus, it helps out much more against Combo Tangle Wire did.

Masticore for the discard and anti-aggro and regenerate aspect.

Not sure what the SB will be, but it'll when you'd change out the Master Transmuters against Null Rod.  I'm also considering running Commandeer in the board, since i have the whole Meditate/Remora thing going on. And some tool-boxing of the Bots. 

[Relwarbeht]

interesting deck, what about fetches over shivan reefs?  And how often do you have Master Transmuter in hand while you need to play out disruption to keep from losing?  and I guess how often do you end up playing Master Transmuter with an empty hand...  Seems good with stack/wire though.

[nineisnoone]

I actually made quite a few changes to the deck since my last posting.
I'm skeptical to post a new list because I'm really unsure of which cards I'm going to ultimately go with.

But to answer your questions...

Fetches were cut in the initial build due to not playing nice with Mindlock Orb (which is currently coming back in).  For how long, I don't know. 

Transmuter with an empty hand is something of a misnomer.  Stacks and Wires in play are just as good as "in hand" when you have Transmuter. Same idea goes with which is the better play. Run your disruption first and you can just pop it back with Transmuter later to save it and replay it. 

Masticore has been a bit of a pain to run as my discard engine.  I might just switch the Meditates for Thirsts. 

Welder is (kind of) the weakest card in the deck.  It might just cut the  completely and go for  .  which would give me Mindsensor and Cannonist.  It really feels more "SB" than anything.

You lose REB, but you can always run Negate.

I don't really have anything set in stone at the moment. 

Masticore has kind of been the suck.

[Lurker101]

Masticore has been a bit of a pain to run as my discard engine.  I might just switch the Meditates for Thirsts. 

Masticore has kind of been the suck.

The meditates usually work really well for me. I might cut the fabricates for thirsts myself. Also instead of Masticore, what about Razormane Masticore? or to deal with small annoying creatures, Triskelion?

[nineisnoone]

The card is mostly there to give me a discard outlet for Welder, so Trisk (while superior) is simply not an option.  I actually did switch to Razormane, but the conclusion was the same.  Razormane made the cut mostly because it kills a turn quicker which is literally a +1 card advantage.  But Welder isn't that good here (imo) which means there is even less reasons to run either card. 

The infatuation with REB and Welder is starting to fade and realistically being that I am already running blue, most of the things that they address well are addressable in blue. 

White is looking more and more like a better 2nd color. Ethersworn Cannonist is great with Transmuter. Orim's Chant would work very well with Meditate. Both of which are excellent anti-storm cards.  Seal of Cleansing and Aven Mindcensor is solid against Tezz/Vault. 

[nineisnoone]

I've recently had the epiphany about Jester's Cap in that it is really really awesome, especially with Master Transmuter.  Not so much for instant speed, ideally you should just use it as soon as you can to protect them from tutoring or drawing into what you want to steal.  But because it become uncounterable via Transmuter. 

Three cards against Tezzeret is Time Vault, Tezzeret, and DSC. Against storm it's Yawgmoth's Will, Tendrils of Agony, and DSC. Multiples are great post-board where you can pull out their anti-Stacks cards.  Stealing 3x Tarmogoyf isn't even all that bad.

[Lurker101]

I've recently had the epiphany about Jester's Cap in that it is really really awesome, especially with Master Transmuter.  Not so much for instant speed, ideally you should just use it as soon as you can to protect them from tutoring or drawing into what you want to steal.  But because it become uncounterable via Transmuter. 

Three cards against Tezzeret is Time Vault, Tezzeret, and DSC. Against storm it's Yawgmoth's Will, Tendrils of Agony, and DSC. Multiples are great post-board where you can pull out their anti-Stacks cards.  Stealing 3x Tarmogoyf isn't even all that bad.

I didn't even think about Jester's Cap. I'll definitely have to test that.

[nineisnoone]

It's really good.  Drain lists going away from Slaver type build with Bots and Welder and into combo wins really opened up the card a lot.  It's much easier to pull all their relevant win conditions out, and no Welder means the graveyard is less accessible.  They'll typically only have Yawgmoth's Will for that which in retrospect you should steal instead of the Tezzeret. 

The same thing is true against aggro decks as well.  Lists are running higher disruption fewer relevant attacking creatures, often relying solely on Tarmgoyf or Phyrexian Negator for a reasonable clock.  If you can Cap them before they draw Tarmogoyf, a deck running 1 Tarmogoyf/Negator, 4 Dark Confidant (which you can block with Transmuter and trade with Welder), and maybe a few other creatures will not have an exceptionally threatening clock that you have to worry about.  Heck, if it's just a Tarmogoyf you can block that all day with just one Transmuter.  If it's just 1 Negator, you can turn it into a Gray Ogre that makes them sacrifice a permanent every time it attacks.

Anti-shop sideboards (especially now with Ichorid eating many slots) usually consists of 3 cards.  Some combination of Recall/Rebuild or sometimes Energy Flux.  Rarely more than that.  With increasing reliance on tutors, sometimes just a singleton.

[Prospero]

I don't have much experience playing workshop so I don't think this is an optimal list yet but I was thinking about a Master Transmuter workshop list that abused Meditate as well. Meditate seems like the perfect draw engine for workshop decks in that it allows you to skip removing fade counters from your tangle wires and avoid smokestack sacrificing for an additional turn while maintaining those locks for an additional turn as well. Here's the list:
//Lands: 20
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Workshop
12 Island

//Creatures: 8
2 Sundering Titan
2 Karn
4 Master Transmuter

//Spells: 32
1 Black Lotus
4 Tangle Wire
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Tinker
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Meditate
4 Smokestack

The deck should be pretty self explanatory, it's basically 9sphere Stax with a draw engine and a Transmuter to reset certain lock pieces and cheat artifacts into play for U.

I think you have to ask yourself what the purpose of the deck is. 

Stax, in any variant, is a prison deck.  The purpose of which is to lock your opponent out of the game.  You do this by controlling his board - what he can play, what he can't, and what you allow to remain on the board.  If your opponent is able to grow his board, you've essentially failed.

Sphere effects are good early and terrible late.  Do you want to run 8, or do you feel like you've had games where you needed business of some variety in the late game, and haven't had it?  If you feel that way at all, I think there are four easy cuts here for you, either Thorns (if there's a lot of aggro in your environment and you're afraid of being punished for running them) or Sphere's (if there's a lot of combo and Tezzeret in the environment, and you won't be punished for the difference).  Additionally, were you to run 8, you should be able to take advantage of them by doing your opponent damage in the meantime (which would necessitate running more creatures). 

I think that Stack and Wire are obligatory 4 of's in the current environment. 

Chalices really depend on your environment.  If there's a lot of T.P.S. in the environment, I can more than understand running them.  They're bad against aggro, and they're good against Tezzeret on the play, and not so great on the draw.  If you're going to run the Chalices, I think that you should be running them in the board, so long as there isn't an unconscionable amount of T.P.S.  The purpose of Chalice is primarily to stop Moxen - by stopping their fast mana, you can keep the game going at your pace, not theirs.  If you're on the draw, Chalice has already failed at its primary objective (as they've had a chance to drop their Moxen, Crypt, or whatever other acceleration).  You should board them in when you're on the play, out when you're on the draw.

I think you're making a mistake in running only 2 Crucibles, and in not running a full complement of Wastelands.  Punishing your opponents mana base is one of the things that Stax must do in order to be successful.  Most Tezzeret decks run 2-3 maindeck Islands.  If you don't punish them for that, you're missing an opportunity to swing the game further in your favor.  I'd up the Crucible count to three, and add the fourth Wasteland.

I noticed that you're not running off color Moxen, nor are you running Mana Crypt or Mana Vault.  One of the most important aspects in your deck is your speed.  Workshop and your various acceleration should make your turns 2-5 brutal.  If you haven't established an advantage by then, you're probably dead.  You decrease the power of your Shops by running no off color Moxen; you negate one of the primary advantages, speed, by sacrificing some of it for various other spells. 

I think you should be running at least one Trike in the main to deal with opposing Tezzeret's (after they've fetched a Time Vault, before they've combo'd) in addition to Welders, and other pesky creatures. 

Finally, with the sheer number of artifacts that you're running, what about running Master of Etherium? 

I've been playing Stax for a while, and I've got a biased opinion.  I think that 5CStax is the best Stax variant out there - I think that you need your tutor effects to find whatever you're missing to lock an opponent out.  And I think that Welder is better than Transmuter, because of cost and because he's brutal with a Bazaar on the board.  When I drew in the finals at Traviscon II, I was playing 5CStax.  I came in 3rd at the January 3rd Bluebell playing 5CStax, and I came in 11th at the last Bluebell playing 5CStax.  If my board had been a little better that tournament, I think I would have top 8'd.  Most people think it's an awful choice for the environment, but I'd strongly disagree. 

I hope what I've said has made a positive impression.  If you've got questions, feel welcome to PM me.

[Lurker101]

I don't have much experience playing workshop so I don't think this is an optimal list yet but I was thinking about a Master Transmuter workshop list that abused Meditate as well. Meditate seems like the perfect draw engine for workshop decks in that it allows you to skip removing fade counters from your tangle wires and avoid smokestack sacrificing for an additional turn while maintaining those locks for an additional turn as well. Here's the list:
//Lands: 20
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Workshop
12 Island

//Creatures: 8
2 Sundering Titan
2 Karn
4 Master Transmuter

//Spells: 32
1 Black Lotus
4 Tangle Wire
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Tinker
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Meditate
4 Smokestack

The deck should be pretty self explanatory, it's basically 9sphere Stax with a draw engine and a Transmuter to reset certain lock pieces and cheat artifacts into play for U.

I think you have to ask yourself what the purpose of the deck is. 

Stax, in any variant, is a prison deck.  The purpose of which is to lock your opponent out of the game.  You do this by controlling his board - what he can play, what he can't, and what you allow to remain on the board.  If your opponent is able to grow his board, you've essentially failed.

Sphere effects are good early and terrible late.  Do you want to run 8, or do you feel like you've had games where you needed business of some variety in the late game, and haven't had it?  If you feel that way at all, I think there are four easy cuts here for you, either Thorns (if there's a lot of aggro in your environment and you're afraid of being punished for running them) or Sphere's (if there's a lot of combo and Tezzeret in the environment, and you won't be punished for the difference).  Additionally, were you to run 8, you should be able to take advantage of them by doing your opponent damage in the meantime (which would necessitate running more creatures). 

I think that Stack and Wire are obligatory 4 of's in the current environment. 

Chalices really depend on your environment.  If there's a lot of T.P.S. in the environment, I can more than understand running them.  They're bad against aggro, and they're good against Tezzeret on the play, and not so great on the draw.  If you're going to run the Chalices, I think that you should be running them in the board, so long as there isn't an unconscionable amount of T.P.S.  The purpose of Chalice is primarily to stop Moxen - by stopping their fast mana, you can keep the game going at your pace, not theirs.  If you're on the draw, Chalice has already failed at its primary objective (as they've had a chance to drop their Moxen, Crypt, or whatever other acceleration).  You should board them in when you're on the play, out when you're on the draw.

I think you're making a mistake in running only 2 Crucibles, and in not running a full complement of Wastelands.  Punishing your opponents mana base is one of the things that Stax must do in order to be successful.  Most Tezzeret decks run 2-3 maindeck Islands.  If you don't punish them for that, you're missing an opportunity to swing the game further in your favor.  I'd up the Crucible count to three, and add the fourth Wasteland.

I noticed that you're not running off color Moxen, nor are you running Mana Crypt or Mana Vault.  One of the most important aspects in your deck is your speed.  Workshop and your various acceleration should make your turns 2-5 brutal.  If you haven't established an advantage by then, you're probably dead.  You decrease the power of your Shops by running no off color Moxen; you negate one of the primary advantages, speed, by sacrificing some of it for various other spells. 

I think you should be running at least one Trike in the main to deal with opposing Tezzeret's (after they've fetched a Time Vault, before they've combo'd) in addition to Welders, and other pesky creatures. 

Finally, with the sheer number of artifacts that you're running, what about running Master of Etherium? 

I've been playing Stax for a while, and I've got a biased opinion.  I think that 5CStax is the best Stax variant out there - I think that you need your tutor effects to find whatever you're missing to lock an opponent out.  And I think that Welder is better than Transmuter, because of cost and because he's brutal with a Bazaar on the board.  When I drew in the finals at Traviscon II, I was playing 5CStax.  I came in 3rd at the January 3rd Bluebell playing 5CStax, and I came in 11th at the last Bluebell playing 5CStax.  If my board had been a little better that tournament, I think I would have top 8'd.  Most people think it's an awful choice for the environment, but I'd strongly disagree. 

I hope what I've said has made a positive impression.  If you've got questions, feel welcome to PM me.

That's an old list. My newer version of the list is down lower on the page.