Transmuting Slaver

[Random Noob]

I posted a list with Master Transmuter and Workshop, but that wasn't so good because there was no Mana Drain. I build a more Slaver like build with Drains and some good Card Drawing Cards like Accu anf TFK. I splashed R for Welder and B for Tutors and Yawgwill with wich you can outdraw your Opponents when the Grave is filled with Accus.

I'm still testing how it works but i had good openings like 1st Turn Welder, on the 2nd Intuition on Master Transmuter, Slaver, and Sharuum, he gave me the Slaver which i was was able to hardacst, and weld in Sharuum which brings the Transmuter. That was where the Lock was Set. From this point you just need to bounce and play Sharuum with the Transmuter, which brings you back the Slaver out of Grave.

When 1st Turn Transmuter and 2nd Turn Intuitiuon i'm not quite sure how an Intuition should look like. I think of Sharuum, Slaver and Welder or Tinker.

Transmuter is also strong with Triskelavus and Sudering Titan, but when using Titan to much your own manasources will be eaten, i'm not sure about Reef and City here. With the City is a pro that you could hardcast Sharuum sometimes. Duplicant is also a good one with Transmuter.

// Lands
    4  Volcanic Island
    3  Polluted Delta
    1  Island
    2  Flooded Strand
    2  Underground Sea
    1  Tolarian Academy

// Creatures
    3  Goblin Welder
    2 [SOA] Sharuum the Hegemon
    1  Duplicant
    1  Triskelavus
    1  Sundering Titan
    3 [CNF] Master Transmuter

// Spells
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Brainstorm
    1  Demonic Tutor
    4  Accumulated Knowledge
    1  Time Walk
    1  Echoing Truth
    4  Mana Drain
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    2  Intuition
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Tinker
    4  Force of Will
    1  Mindslaver
 

Over to you --->

[Qube]

What about:
-1 Duplicant
+Intuition
because you also want to play situative intuitions not only on robots. like AK-Piles or after sb, grundges.
-Volcanic Island
+ Tropical Island
another card to think about is crucible, so you don't lose many lands if you play sundering,bounce,play...
Maybe also Gifts?...

SB:
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Viashimo Heretic
1 Trinisphere
3 Thoughtseize
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Explosives

(just the first thought)

[Random Noob]

I agree Intuition is very strong. Fact and Gift were alsways strong with Drains too. I would like to throw in a Deep Analysis as Intuition Target when there already is an Accu in Grave and one in Hand, but i don't know where to make the cut. I cutted Duplo some times before but i missed him when i faced Colossus on opponents Table. 1 TFK may be cut for an Intuition. Fact and Gift won't eat the Drain mana as often as they are used to, because i think it will be needed to get out the Transmuter sometimes.

When i would Splash another Color i would like to play City of Brass (+Shivan Reef), because i can sometimes hardcast Sharuum, and it would help against Titan hitting the own Mana Base to much, but i think with taht much drawing cards thinning the own Lib is a main point too. Crucible with out Wasteland is not a Choice imo, but adding both would eat so many slots and would lead back to a Shop like Version, with Spheres and so on. That were my first thoughts when i saw Tansmuter, but this way it showed some potenitial very early. Your thoughts on the SB look good, but i think i will run some Extripate, just because of the Accu Mirror which is always a bit difficult to play. Ancient Grudge and Intuition are alway very nice settings.

[Mantis]

I would like to throw in a Deep Analysis as Intuition Target when there already is an Accu in Grave and one in Hand, but i don't know where to make the cut.

Just look for Recall (or another bomb), AK, AK and start drawing a ton of cards. I mean, if you would look for Deep Analysis, they just give you that and you end up drawing 4 cards for 6UUU and 3 life, that's just way too clunky.

[the boogie man]

I think that having accumulated knowledge opens you up to graveyard hate a little much. a tormod's crypt is alot more effective against you. And I don't really like ak. What if you replaced those with 2 deep anal, you get cards that are at least really good drain sinks, and are much more compact. You could use the other slots for thoughtsieze or negate something.

And have you found 2 hedgemon to be necessary? I haven't tested it, but both of the situations you point out only require 1. You cant have 2 in play at the same time, but maybe im missing something. And it seems weaker than other tinker targets like triskelavus or colossus.

Why not play colossus? It's best at what it does, which is to end the game really fing quick. It's gravy that transmuter can dump him into play if he is in your hand anyway. What are your thoughts on sundering titan? He seems devastating, but is he dead in a lot of matchups? How often does he destroy your lands?

[Random Noob]

Just look for Recall (or another bomb), AK, AK and start drawing a ton of cards. I mean, if you would look for Deep Analysis, they just give you that and you end up drawing 4 cards for 6UUU and 3 life, that's just way too clunky.

My thoughts were that there would be scenarios in which a Analysis coul be useful, maybe you have played Ancestral yet, or you are holding 2 Accu. But i agree there is no real need for Analysis with Accus.

I think that having accumulated knowledge opens you up to graveyard hate a little much. a tormod's crypt is alot more effective against you. And I don't really like ak. What if you replaced those with 2 deep anal, you get cards that are at least really good drain sinks, and are much more compact. You could use the other slots for thoughtsieze or negate something.

And have you found 2 hedgemon to be necessary? I haven't tested it, but both of the situations you point out only require 1. You cant have 2 in play at the same time, but maybe im missing something. And it seems weaker than other tinker targets like triskelavus or colossus.

Why not play colossus? It's best at what it does, which is to end the game really fing quick. It's gravy that transmuter can dump him into play if he is in your hand anyway. What are your thoughts on sundering titan? He seems devastating, but is he dead in a lot of matchups? How often does he destroy your lands?

.

Yes it open to GY hate, but the Transmuter let's you play a little bit around it. If there would be Null Rod Welder will help in these games. Maybe Courier's Capsule over Accu.

The thoughts of the 2 Sharuum are that you can force  your opponent to give us what you need. Let's say you need Duplicant, you play Intuition on 2 Sharuum and Duplicant. This looks sometimes different what is on the Table, Welder or Transmuter or maybe both. Most times you can Hardcast what you get.

Sundering Titan helped me in 1 Game, but i didn't test very much yet. Colossus isn't as good as Inkhwell Leviatan or Magister Sphinx imo. Both look very usefull. You can weld them in what you can't do with the Colossus, and Magister Sphinx would end the Game most times as fast as Colossus. It downs your Opponent to 10 life when it comes into Play, and then swing with it 2 turns, would be as fast as Colossus. Leviathan would be pitchable for FoW, thats why i would run those over Colossus.

Perhaps something like Intuition on Sphinx, Sharuum and what you need, then the Game would end quickly, when you hold the hand you need.

[the boogie man]

colossus is indestructable. And what about games where your oponent is already below 10 life? then, magister sphinx would be helping them. or i'd run inkwell leviathan, cause he pitches to force. but I wouldn't run sundering titan.

I think that running 2-3 deep anals would be better than running the 4 accumulated knowledge. They aren't the worst card ever when they are in your hand, they are good stuff to pitch to thirst if you need to, and they are good by themselves. if you get hit with a crypt, it's not the end of the world. And it saves a little bit of space. I also like this option over capsule, because null rod, and the fact that both cost you 6 to draw four cards, but you don't need a welder to do it.

[Random Noob]

Maybe like this:

- 4 AK
- 1 Sundering Titan

+ 1 Fact of Fiction
+ 1 Gifts Ungiven
+ 2 Deep Analysis
+ 1 Inkwell Leviathan

...not the worst change i could make, other ideas ?

[hyperchord24]

I don't know.  There's a reason why Sundering Titan and Darksteel Colossus are staples in Slaver.  The advantages Inkwell has over DSC is that it is blue and can be welded.  I'd run both titan and Inkwell (or at least test them together).

One side note about the Sphinx - I'd only run it in the sideboard because all in all, life total means nothing in Vintage.  That being said, I haven't tested this card or any card like that.  But pound for pound, I'd rather run Platinum Angel (which is, however, not blue like Sphinx).

[the boogie man]

I'd probably want merchant scroll over fact or fiction. It is good for every part of your gameplay. Early, It gets a counter or ancestral. Then intuition, and gifts and stuff. And in desperation mode, grabs your bounce.

[Random Noob]

I'm asking me if the Welder trick with Sensei would work with Transmuter too. I think of tapping Sensei, then the Transmuter ability on Stack. Would Sensei be in hand, a card drawn and an artifact brought into play ? And even better, could Sensei be the same artifact you bring into play with the Transmuter ? This could be interesting if there are 2 Transmuter and a Welder is on Table.

Sensei is always good in topdeck Game Situations, and if there would be 2 creatures which would make tricks with it, it should be an option too.


Sorry for my bad English, my last lessons are more then 10 years past. 

[nineisnoone]

I'm asking me if the Welder trick with Sensei would work with Transmuter too. I think of tapping Sensei, then the Transmuter ability on Stack. Would Sensei be in hand, a card drawn and an artifact brought into play ? And even better, could Sensei be the same artifact you bring into play with the Transmuter ? This could be interesting if there are 2 Transmuter and a Welder is on Table.

Sensei is always good in topdeck Game Situations, and if there would be 2 creatures which would make tricks with it, it should be an option too.

Sorry for my bad English, my last lessons are more then 10 years past. 

It works with Transmuter too.  Any active ability that removes Sensei will still draw you a card.  You can't do it off a Smokestack sacrifice, because it's a trigger so you can only respond to it, ultimately ending up with your Sensei back on top of your deck.

But you can activate Sensei and Weld/Transmute it out of play, draw the card, and not put it on top of your deck.

Your English is good.   

[Random Noob]

This is it today. Thaks for your help @ll, i guess dropping Accus was a good choice. After some playtesting this deck showed some good potential. I cut the Duplicant and a Brainstorm (ouch), to get the 2 strong Senseis into the List.

// Lands
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Underground Sea
    2  Flooded Strand
    1  Island
    3  Polluted Delta
    4  Volcanic Island

// Creatures
    3 [CNF] Master Transmuter
    1 [CNF] Inkwell Leviathan
    1  Sundering Titan
    1  Triskelavus
    2 [SOA] Sharuum the Hegemon
    3  Goblin Welder

// Spells
    1  Mindslaver
    4  Force of Will
    1 [8th] Merchant Scroll
    1  Deep Analysis
    1  Gifts Ungiven
    2  Intuition
    1  Tinker
    4  Thirst for Knowledge
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    4  Mana Drain
    1  Time Walk
    1  Echoing Truth
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    2  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  Mana Vault
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Mox Pearl

But now after the Master T list from Rock Lee i'm burning to test more on a Workshop Build q;

@Nineisnoone: Thx

[Relwarbeht]

As far as tuning this into a competitive deck, I would look into the general problems slaver has faced in the past.  Obviously you have a very strong late game, as most slaver decks do.  But, prior to having UU available your rather venerable with no more protection than your opponents are probably going to have.  In fact, lacking duress/seizes is likely going to put you at a serious disadvantage early game with only forces.  As a problem, this is going to be compounded with your deck running more 'robots' (game winning bomby guys that are clunky to get into play) than the average slaver build, much less tezz, remora, or ritual decks, as you will draw worse over the course of the game, with your hand filling up with 7/10s and 11/11s ect.  At that point I don't know how effectively you will be able to resolve stuff like Transmuter and co.  Obviously that is a bit of an exaggeration, but my point is how do you come back if your opponent gets ahead early?  You may well be able to, I'm just suggesting that that question is a legitimate one that this thread should answer if it hopes to tune this into a competitive deck.  Additionally you suffer all the particular 'slaver' hate in the format (rod, grudges, rack and ruin, ect).

[John Jones]

This deck is very vulnerable to null rod. I would suggest adding 1 rack and ruin and possibly 1 mox monkey. However, if you do that, I also suggest adding a crucible and 2 waste/strip for the land control package. Then you can add green and get life from the loam to help lock with intuition/gifts.

Lol...