1st with Master T Slaver @ ELD's Mox 21

[OwenTheEnchanter]

As I said, being an asshole is never the correct play.  I know many people who consistently win tournaments, and none of them act like that.

Have you met Owen?

Pretty reasonable response.

[dicemanx]

I don't condone being an ass for the sake of it, and I don't like people who run the full game on someone who doesn't have a good grasp of the format to begin with, but if you are going to use some mental stuff to try and get into your opponent's head when you are worried you aren't as good a player, then that's fine.

I'm assuming you're equating "use some mental stuff" with "being an ass"? I don't think that anyone in this thread raised an issue with mental games in general - the issue is with some specific types of mental games that border on or constitute cheating.

[Suicideking]

As I said, being an asshole is never the correct play.  I know many people who consistently win tournaments, and none of them act like that.

Have you met Owen?

Pretty reasonable response.

I don't think I've ever seen owen act like a dick to anyone in a match.  Outside of matches is different, but he handles business like a man.

[Tha Gunslinga]

As I said, being an asshole is never the correct play.  I know many people who consistently win tournaments, and none of them act like that.

Have you met Owen?  I mean, he doesn't play the "ask annoying questions to throw my opponent off" thing, but if you are looking for players who can be somewhat 'unpleasant' in and after matches...  Come to think of it, your brother has his quirks too, and so does Soly, and so do I and so on and so forth.

There's a huge difference between subtly pushing here and there, like Tommy or Owen or Dan, and just blatantly being an asshole, which incidentally would get you a GL or DQ for unsportsmanlike conduct at anything I'm running.

[MadManiac21]

It's pretty clear you're all just life nits. He misplayed, it happens. Remember ELD in Spain and the mana drain mana debacle? Should we start letting everyone take back mistakes that cost them the game?

lol @this thread. Everyone who claims what Jeremiah did was wrong is so FOS it's laughable. You'd all do the same and not think twice.

As Clariax just said about the changing of mana floating colors, maybe he actually meant to have blue floating - that is he meant to crack the lotus for blue instead. What's jeremiahs move then?

The simple fact that jerimiah asked what the kid had floating doesn't mean he had intention to cheat, maybe he just wanted to clarify what lotus was popped for. Hell, I think we've all done that before in hopes that our opponent becomes flummoxed and says the wrong color; if you can't even keep track of that, maybe you shouldn't be playing Magic.

[mgouthro]

lol @this thread. Everyone who claims what Jeremiah did was wrong is so FOS it's laughable. You'd all do the same and not think twice.

As Clariax just said about the changing of mana floating colors, maybe he actually meant to have blue floating - that is he meant to crack the lotus for blue instead. What's jeremiahs move then?

The simple fact that jerimiah asked what the kid had floating doesn't mean he had intention to cheat, maybe he just wanted to clarify what lotus was popped for. Hell, I think we've all done that before in hopes that our opponent becomes flummoxed and says the wrong color; if you can't even keep track of that, maybe you shouldn't be playing Magic.

I wasn't about to weigh in on this at all, but this constant defense of this play is what's laughable. I'd never do the same and have corrected storm players on exactly what is in their mana pool. When someone cracks a lotus for GGG, taps an island, and then casts Trinket Mage, which resolves, that player has G left in his pool no matter what is said after. How is that even up for debate?

[Tha Gunslinga]

You'd all do the same and not think twice.

It's interesting, because that's what people like you always say.  "Oh, anyone would have taken advantage of her while she was drunk."  "Oh, if you didn't think you'd get caught, you'd do the same thing I did."

Some of us have ethics, believe it or not, and we find it as hard to believe that you'd act the way you do as you find it hard to believe that we wouldn't.

[Implacable]

Yeah, I gotta' admit, this kind of play sounds like what I did was 9.  I'd Death Bomb, 'pay' the cost by announcing I was sac'ing Cavern Harpy, and then bounce it 'in response.'  I didn't know it wasn't kosher; my opponents weren't certain exactly how it did or didn't work; and so we let it slide, not really sure that it worked and not interested in really considering our reasoning.  What I'm curious about is this: did Jeremiah seriously believe that being confused about your mana actually changed it?  Did he really think that being out of it means that you're like Neo in The Matrix, bending time, space and mana pools to your whims?  I think Jer's crime is, to put it harshly but truthfully, being both a little dumb and a lot self-interested lazy.  Only he could benefit by this imaginary rule, and so I'm fairly certain he didn't much care to explore its logic.  Being a little dumb's not a crime; but if you think self-interested laziness - I mean really, mana pools changing based on exhaustion? - is a DQ-able offense, then send him packing.  I've not got much sympathy.

[MISTERTREK]

Wow, this thread has turned quickly from the report on a card that I have interest in its playability in T1 to a he said/she said debate. Please discuss the card more as I was bashed by my play group that it was not T1 worthy.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Wow, this thread has turned quickly from the report on a card that I have interest in its playability in T1 to a he said/she said debate. Please discuss the card more as I was bashed by my play group that it was not T1 worthy.

So go win a tournament and prove them wrong.  Win it without cheating, mind you, otherwise you'll end up with a thread like this.

[Juggernaut GO]

So am I right to assume that a UTOG ban will be put in place for Jeremiah since he was actually caught cheating in the finals of a tournament or is all this gonna get swept away?

[MISTERTREK]

Wow, this thread has turned quickly from the report on a card that I have interest in its playability in T1 to a he said/she said debate. Please discuss the card more as I was bashed by my play group that it was not T1 worthy.

So go win a tournament and prove them wrong.  Win it without cheating, mind you, otherwise you'll end up with a thread like this.

You dont think I'm actually good enough to PLAY Magic do you?? As a TO I'm just a master speculator! LOL

[Oath of Happy]

Wow, this thread has turned quickly from the report on a card that I have interest in its playability in T1 to a he said/she said debate. Please discuss the card more as I was bashed by my play group that it was not T1 worthy.

It depends what you mean by type 1.  At your Blue Bell tournies, expect to go 0-2 drop with this card.  At lets say....Myriad Games mana cookies tournament, you can defentily win a tourney with it.  Theyre both Type 1, but different tiers.

[Myriad Games]

As most who attend our Myriad Games Vintage events find out, the level of competition is right up there with the best of the rest, and is almost on par with the deliciousness factor of Sara's Mana Cookies! 

[MadManiac21]

As most who attend our Myriad Games Vintage events find out, the level of competition is right up there with the best of the rest, and is almost on par with the deliciousness factor of Sara's Mana Cookies! 

This may singlehandedly be the greatest post I've ever seen, when considered as a response to the last 3 pages. Haha.

<3

[T00L]

So am I right to assume that a UTOG ban will be put in place for Jeremiah since he was actually caught cheating in the finals of a tournament or is all this gonna get swept away?

I'm sure we can trust in the UTOG to do whats right.

[MISTERTREK]

As most who attend our Myriad Games Vintage events find out, the level of competition is right up there with the best of the rest, and is almost on par with the deliciousness factor of Sara's Mana Cookies! 

While I have never met Dan & Sara (although I wish she would send some of those Mana Cookies my way!), or been able to trek to the land of milk & maple syrup, I'm sure their T1 folks are good players & they run quality events. Sounds like another arguement for a particular post on the annoucement threads!

[Morphling420]

I wonder what Jer would have done if his opponent said "ohh are you sure i said blue floating well then i need to get my emerald instead is that ok?" I mean i am very curious if this "nice guy" would have still been this "nice" in that scenerio. Dont get me wrong i like Jer and am very surprized to hear that he did this, but the fact of the matter is he is far to good of a player to think this was OK. In otherwords Jer had a lapse of judgement CHEATED and needs to be penalized. IMO suspention would be fair maybe 6months or something. I mean that should give him sometime to brush up on his legacy anyway. There atleast at these tournys he can better work to better understandthe color wheel as well as the rules regarding "take backsies" as ELD said.

PS Everyone makes mistakes and the kid is certainly not the devil. However if he doesnt get suspended i move for everyone to throw forests and islands at him till he can tell the difference regarding what mana they produce upon impact. This should happen at every vintage event till he can do so.

Double post merged - Godder.

[Godder]

Discussing a particular rules scenario is one thing, but calling for sanctions for a specific player is quite another.

Locked.