[Deck Primer]: Christmas Beatings

[serracollector]

Just wondering, but if in a high MUD environment, isn't artifact mutation better than seal of primodium?  Not only does it kill the artifacts, but gives you tokens for roadblocks against a Lodestone, or just to tap and swing ftw.

When I played r/g beats YEARS ago (mind you) Artifact mutation won me SO SO SO many games, I would even use it on DSC, doesn't kill him but gives you 11 tokens so you can swing back just as hard if not harder.

Also remember vault/key/tezz/jace are not the only cards affected by BT shaman, you also got Triskelion, Karn, Welder, Barbarian Ring, and the Metalworker/Staff of domination combo, along with making sac and search lands cost 2 life when popped.

BT shaman is very very good.

My 2 cents, hope it helps.

[Delha]

Just wondering, but if in a high MUD environment, isn't artifact mutation better than seal of primodium?  Not only does it kill the artifacts, but gives you tokens for roadblocks against a Lodestone, or just to tap and swing ftw.

Seal can be cast proactively, which is significant. Artifact Mutuation will never hit a Sphere/Golem without making you pay extra for it. I agree that Mutation was the nuts against Stax back in the day, and might still be. Just pointing out a key reason why Seal is desirable.

If people wanted spell based removal, I also think Naturalize would be run before Mutation, since it hits Oath.

[Troy_Costisick]

The problem with Artifact Mutation is that it's not as versitile as Nature's Claim and Seal of Primordium.  However, if you are playing in a heavy Shop meta as your question asks, then AM might be worth it.  For me, though, I would have to be reasonably sure I wouldn't see Oath or Remora Tez if I were going to replace some of my cards for it.  Know your meta.  That's the best advice for Christmas Beatings.

If people wanted spell based removal, I also think Naturalize would be run before Mutation, since it hits Oath.

I used to run Deglamer back in the day when the only Tinker target was DSC.  Man, those were the good old days, back when everything was simpler.  Now-a-days, though, I'd run Hull Breach before Naturalize or Artifact Mutation.

[grungyboy]

If you want to use Burning-Tree Shaman and Magus of the Moon, you are pretty much obliged to build your deck like rappa's.  You need to have 4 Seals, 4 Claims, and 4 Rods.  BT Shaman will be one of the last spells you play, and only when you have established board control.  I can't tell you exactly what to cut without knowing what decklist you're working with.  But I can tell you, that you have to use cheap disruption to save yourself from a loss in the first three turns before you can play BT Shaman.

exactly my point.

If you're not playing Rod because you're playing Aether Vial, you have some interesting anti-Vault/Key options like Viridian Zealot, Viridian Shaman, and Manic Vandal to surprise kill artifacts.

You also forgot Vithian Renegades  which i think is the best as it can beat for 3. Do you think ramping Vial to 3 will be ok? Viridian Shaman is 2cc which is good but the activation is meh. i just wish they could print something like RG Hooligan that directly destroys artifacts when it comes into play(without the paying G condition).  BTW, i do play Blast MD

sorry man if i've been sounding like a noob but i haven't joined any tourneys lately and i had very limiting testing these past few months so i'm just relying on your responses for my theories. thanks for answering man.  

[Troy_Costisick]

sorry man if i've been sounding like a noob but i haven't joined any tourneys lately and i had very limiting testing these past few months so i'm just relying on your responses for my theories. thanks for answering man.  

You don't sound like a newb at all.  You're just examining choices for your deck and that's fine.  As for your question for Aether Vial, ramping it to any number is totally dependant on what cards you have in hand.  I can't give a recomendation because it has to be based on what the game conditions are during actual play.

Peace,

-Troy

[o uncola o]

Just wondering, but if in a high MUD environment, isn't artifact mutation better than seal of primodium?  Not only does it kill the artifacts, but gives you tokens for roadblocks against a Lodestone, or just to tap and swing ftw.

Seal can be cast proactively, which is significant. Artifact Mutuation will never hit a Sphere/Golem without making you pay extra for it. I agree that Mutation was the nuts against Stax back in the day, and might still be. Just pointing out a key reason why Seal is desirable.

If people wanted spell based removal, I also think Naturalize would be run before Mutation, since it hits Oath.

Seal is also a nice and easy way to get an enchantment into the yard.  Good for the 'goyf.

[merfolkOTPT]

I was wondering if you all had any comments about the potential of splashing black in this deck. It gives the deck card draw in confidant, tutors so we draw the things we need, and a good answer to tinkered up monsters in edicts.  My main concern would be the mana base and what you could cut from the main deck, but I like the idea of confidant in this deck as well as potentially getting some better sideboard cards for various MUs.

[Troy_Costisick]

I was wondering if you all had any comments about the potential of splashing black in this deck. It gives the deck card draw in confidant, tutors so we draw the things we need, and a good answer to tinkered up monsters in edicts.  My main concern would be the mana base and what you could cut from the main deck, but I like the idea of confidant in this deck as well as potentially getting some better sideboard cards for various MUs.

Adding a third color is not something I've ever really liked.  Both white and black have cards that are intriguing, but trying to add them makes the mana base more complicated, less explosive, and delays playing your disruption.  Once you start adding a third color, you're playing a deck other than Christmas Beatings.

[urweak]

I am not worried so much about the changes in the meta over the years since i have abandoned this deck. But rather a Tinkered up Sphinx of the Steel Wind is enough to send this deck packing. Is there anything that can be done to stop this? Or done once it hits play?

[Delha]

Goblin Replica? Brittle Effigy? Both are pricey, but there aren't exactly tons of options here.

[H]

Or something like Shatterstorm or more probably Pulverize (which happens to be decent out of the board against MUD/Stax).

[grungyboy]

Vexing Shusher + Blast is a good answer to Tinker for me. Bruizar pointed out that more people now uses Inkwell more than Sphinx because Sphinx can be bounced opposed to Inkwell. if that's the case, Thornweald Archer will do the job but just to be on the safe side,  Vexing Shusher + Blast is the best.

[Troy_Costisick]

I am not worried so much about the changes in the meta over the years since i have abandoned this deck. But rather a Tinkered up Sphinx of the Steel Wind is enough to send this deck packing. Is there anything that can be done to stop this? Or done once it hits play?

Shusher + Blast is indeed good.  Sculpting Steel works also.  Maze of Ith can delay him.  Sphinx is the absolute hardest creature for this deck to deal with.  The best strategy is just to prevent Tinker or Oath in the first place.

[overseer1234]

Okay these statement's may be obvious, but to me, this is what I've been stuck with:

The basic skeleton:
 
4 Null Rod   (short of the mirror and ichorid you ALWAYS want this in your deck)
4 Tarmogoyf      

4 Simian Spirit Guide   
4 Elvish Spirit Guide   
 
4 Wasteland   
1 Strip Mine   

1 Lotus Petal
4 Wooded Foothills   
2 Taiga   
3 Forest   
3 Mountain   

The problem I have with this deck is that the other cards are almost all-way's 50/50 cards, (okay creature's "all-way's" have a use, but might as-well play grizzly bears if you want to argue about that)

So how do you balance your deck say... if you go to a tournament with 300+ players? I mean it's impossible to metagame, so my question is:

What would be a "allround" list for an unknown metagame?


Greetzzzzzzz,
Robin.

[tezzajw]

4 Strip Mine

1 Strip Mine.  It's restricted.

[overseer1234]

4 Strip Mine

1 Strip Mine.  It's restricted.

Sorry, my bad, fixed it.

Also added lotus pettal to the list.

[rappa5050]

The problem I have with this deck is that the other cards are almost all-way's 50/50 cards, (okay creature's "all-way's" have a use, but might as-well play grizzly bears if you want to argue about that)

So how do you balance your deck say... if you go to a tournament with 300+ players? I mean it's impossible to metagame, so my question is:

What would be a "allround" list for an unknown metagame?


Greetzzzzzzz,
Robin.

Doing well with this deck depends on knowing your metagame as well as you can, and tweaking your list accordingly, even if that means studying a huge meta. In a large tournament environment, I wouldn't say it's impossible to metagame. You can't check out what everyone's playing, so there will always be a few surprises, but you can generally expect to play against the major archetypes a lot (i.e. MUD, Fish, Stax, Dredge, Combo, Tezz, UGB Tezz, Oath). I agree one of the biggest problems facing this deck is making every card choice count in as many matchups as possible, but I don't think there is any such thing as an "allround list." Anyway, for Robin and anyone who is interested, here's what I'm currently running:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Null Rod
4 Pyroblast
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Seal of Primordium
4 Nature's Claim
4 Mogg Fanatic Gorilla Shaman
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
4 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus

Sideboard:
1 Blood Moon
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Pithing Needle
4 Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt

[MaximumCDawg]

Has anyone experimented with a black splash?  Seems like this deck could use Dark Confidant pretty bad, and black gives you better defenses to Ichorid (Jailer, Leyline) and an answer to Sphinx and Oath (Edict).

I'll be more specific: how about this build, for a sanctioned (non-proxy) meta expecting alot of aggro, at least two shop decks, and lots of people experimenting with Jace: TMSC builds?  Since it's non-proxy, I can't bank on just attacking the P9.

4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Tiaga
1 Bayou
1 Badlands
3 Forest
4 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Dark Confidant
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Gorilla Shaman / Ingot Chewer / Gobin Vandal
3 Mogg Fanatic

2 Seal of Primordium
2 Nature's Claim
4 Chalice of the Void

2 Pyrokenesis
1 Vendetta
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pyroblast

SB

3 Vexing Shusher
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Yixlid Jailer
4 Mindbreak Trap // Thorn of Amethyst

[d0rsal]

as has previously been stated, this deck has a tough time against decks w/ lots of creatures.  does anyone have a suggestion for a creature as a possible sideboard option to help combat those types of decks?  i know thorwnweald archer has been discussed but i was thinking more along the lines of a creature w/ a little more junk in his trunk that could also be brought in for those games when you wanted another beater...

[RecklessEmbermage]

as has previously been stated, this deck has a tough time against decks w/ lots of creatures.  does anyone have a suggestion for a creature as a possible sideboard option to help combat those types of decks?  i know thorwnweald archer has been discussed but i was thinking more along the lines of a creature w/ a little more junk in his trunk that could also be brought in for those games when you wanted another beater...

Well, tarmogoyf is big enough to be good even against decks that aren't too concerned with the combat phase. Burning tree shaman is solid against a lot of archetypes, including zoo, and you can argue for something like 2 main, 2 side.

Generally, you want creatures with at least 4 toughness, since they are usually 2-for-1s (survive bolt). A bit up on the curve, you got phantom centaur (slaughters red and good against black), obstinate baloth (more of an allrounder), flametongue kavu (guaranteed 2-for-1)... I'm sure there are more, but I'm pressed for time. Yes! Kitchen finks! Play kitchen finks against aggro. It is one hundred percent brutal.

I prefer skullclamp (rather than jitte) as a way to combat creature decks and decks with wrath effects. These can be sided in for rods or the other way around, depending on meta.

[Troy_Costisick]

as has previously been stated, this deck has a tough time against decks w/ lots of creatures.  does anyone have a suggestion for a creature as a possible sideboard option to help combat those types of decks?  i know thorwnweald archer has been discussed but i was thinking more along the lines of a creature w/ a little more junk in his trunk that could also be brought in for those games when you wanted another beater...

If you're playing Lightning Bolts main (not a bad idea btw) then the aggro vs. aggro matchups get better.  Thornweald Archer is indeed one of the best anti-aggro option out there, espcially if you ever get 2 in play.  A card I used to play is Martyr of Ashes.  She's a decent board sweeper if you have the cards to pull it off.  I don't like it as much now.  Werebear might be a possibility for you.  In the Shop matchup, he's extra mana and it's not that hard to get 7 cards in your GY.  But honestly, maindeck Bolts seem to be the best option to cover your bases right now.

Peace,

-Troy

[d0rsal]

 

[urweak]

Whats everyones take on Tunnel Ignus in the up and comming Gushbond meta?

[Troy_Costisick]

Whats everyones take on Tunnel Ignus in the up and comming Gushbond meta?

Great with Aether Vial in a meta where Gush surpasses the level of dominance it showed in the Golden Age.  Otherwise, he's sideboard at best and a terrible substitute for Tin Street Hooligan at worst.  He's not even on my radar for Christmas Beatings right now.  I just don't think he's all that valuable in the current metagame.  That could change, but right now, not even looking there.

Peace,

-Troy

[rappa5050]

I agree with Troy.
And?  We expect posts here to have more content than "I agree."

-Klep

[ConF1ictZ]

this is currently what im running. i quit playing magic last year but made a deck on MWS to test out because its honestly too hard to leave this game. i just want to make sure im making the right choices before buying these cards. i live in NYC so the results from the NYSE are pretty much my metagame.

4 Wooded Foothills
4 mountain
4 wasteland
4 forest
1 strip mine
4 taiga

4 elvish spirit guide
4 simian spirit guide
4 tarmogoyf
4 Magus of the moon
4 Gorilla Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vexing Shusher

4 Null Rod
4 Pyroblast
4 Natures Claim
1 Black Lotus
2 Rack and Ruin
not sure what i want to put in the sideboard yet, definitely some more artifact hate and something for dredg. any critisim on it?

[Bibendum]

Need something in the board to deal with combo. Outside of pyro you dont have much to stand up to them going off early. Maybe mind breaks out of the board?

[RecklessEmbermage]

this is currently what im running. i quit playing magic last year but made a deck on MWS to test out because its honestly too hard to leave this game. i just want to make sure im making the right choices before buying these cards. i live in NYC so the results from the NYSE are pretty much my metagame.

4 Wooded Foothills
4 mountain
4 wasteland
4 forest
1 strip mine
4 taiga

4 elvish spirit guide
4 simian spirit guide
4 tarmogoyf
4 Magus of the moon
4 Gorilla Shaman
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Vexing Shusher

4 Null Rod
4 Pyroblast
4 Natures Claim
1 Black Lotus
2 Rack and Ruin
not sure what i want to put in the sideboard yet, definitely some more artifact hate and something for dredg. any critisim on it?

The deck looks rock solid, so not much to critizise on. The only thing might be that nature's claim has a somewhat low impact. Is there a decent amount of oath in your meta? If the claims are gonna hit artifacts on a high enough percentage of the time, you might wanna cut them from the maindeck and replace them with 2 artifact mutation, 2 ancient grudge or something like that. Artifact mutation over tin-street hooligan because if you should choose to cram more artifact destruction into the maindeck, it's because MUD is dominating the meta, so mutation has a good chance of finding a target with cmc > 2.

I guess the question becomes: What kind of percentages do you expect in your next tournament? You shouldn't expect us to know your meta, allthough it's a big one.

[Ozymandias]

I would rather run grudge than mutation, because people have counters.

[RecklessEmbermage]

I would rather run grudge than mutation, because people have counters.

Only blue decks have counters and mutation beats. Which is why we need to have some sort of metagame analysis to help tune the list.